Attached Link: http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk/3d/spmanfl6.jpg

[REPOST after recent system mishap] The problem sometimes surfaces of fixing one model to another at more than one point, e.g. a man holding a tool or weapon in both hands. This would make a closed circle of linked parts, sometomes called "circular IK chain" in Poser Forum message titles. In e.g. my flamethrower model, that problem occurs twice, as its tank is parented to his back, and some other means would have to be used to make both his hands stay on its nozzle's handgrips as the nozzle is re-posed to change his aim. I suggested this method to try to keep part A and part B of a tree of articulated parts in the same relationship as they move, if A and B are not adjacent in the tree structure:- --- The user says that B must follow A. -- If the user moves A:- - Poser moves A as usual. - Poser calculates position X and orientation Y of where B would have been if it had followed A. - Poser acts as if the user had tried to drag and rotate B to the position X and orientation Y. If that fails, Poser beeps or complains and the user has the option to undo the whole attempt to move A and B. -- If the user tries to move B directly:- - Ditto with A and B swopped, or Poser treats it as an attempt to move A. -- If the user tries to move a part C which is up or down a chain of parts from B, and that results in B wanting to move:- - Poser remembers position X and orientation Y of where B was before. - Poser moves C and acts as usual. - Then, Poser acts as if the user had tried to drag and rotate B to position X and orientation Y. If that fails, Poser beeps or complains and the user has the option to undo the whole attempt to move A and B and C.

A user suggested renaming the flamethrower's tank "chest", and dividing its hose into 3 segments named "lCollar" and "lShoulder" and "lForearm", and renaming its nozzle "lHand", and treating the flamethrower as a conformable garment. But:- - That still leaves no way to keep his right hand on the nozzle also. - It would leave parts of the flamethrower with confusing wrong names. - To get the curving realistic the hose must be divided into more than three segments: I use eight. - It would likely make the hose closely follow his left arm as if it was a sleeve, but in reality it would hang in a loop by his left waist: see http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk/3d/spmanfl6.jpg - It would not conform the nozzle accurately enough to his hands to point in the intended direction and make its handgrips go accurately through his finger grasp.

It would also help if I could issue along with the flamethrower model a pose-type file mentioning BOTH the nozzle AND its user's hands and finger parts, and then applied it tried to attract its wearer's hands to the place of operation, and then as above.

Okay, it's a little more clear to me what you are trying to do at this point. As far as what Poser is currently capable of, I don't think this is exactly possible (though I have been proved wrong before). Creating a poseable clothing figure out of the flamethrower is going to be the closest you're going to be able to get (by my estimation). A poseable clothing figure would not give you all the problems you are expecting. >> - That still leaves no way to keep his right hand on the >> nozzle also. True, this is a drawback using this method. But if you were to only have a nozzle (no tubing or tanks) you would only be able to parent it to the right or the left hand. >> - It would leave parts of the flamethrower withconfusing >> wrong names. Confusing maybe, but as a conformed figure you wouldn't need to pose the flamethrower, just the figure weilding it. >> - To get the curving realistic the hose must be divided >> into more than three segments: I use eight. >> - It would likely make the hose closely follow his left >> arm as if it was a sleeve, but in reality it would hang >> in a loop by his left waist: see >> http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk/3d/spmanfl6.jpg Thinking about it, it's may not be necessary to lable the hose to parts to go along with the arm...just the nozzle and tanks have to be labled the same as the body parts they need to be attached too. >> - It would not conform the nozzle accurately enough to >> his hands to point in the intended direction and make its >> handgrips go accurately through his finger grasp. If you can get the original .obj file to import to line up in a relative position with the figure's default pose you fiz this. Tedious, I know. I know it's not easy, but this is probably the only way to go about it in Poser4. I hope this helps. -JKeller

Ii would be useful if the features that I describe here could be put into Poser 5. The "conformable garment" idea looks like a handy way to make its backpack straps fit; thus it would be useful if a posable object could be made of a conformable garment with other (non-garment) parts attached: that would make life easier for many sorts of devices worn on a man's back in a backpack harness and also having other posable parts: flamethrower as here, garden spray-pack, scuba diver's breathing set, blowtorch with backpack cylinders, backpack helicopter motor and rotor set, etc. Some of these are in the Poser Fun Stuff (search for text string "appleyard"), in Poser 3 form and I had to make each backpack strap as a posable "tail" of several segments with the "curve" property.

But with the hands and nozzle, I would want to conform his hands and arms to the nozzle, not the other way round, as where the nozzle is pointing is decided by whatever he is aiming at or if he is obeying "present arms!" or whatever.

It would also help if I could issue along with the flamethrower model a pose-type file mentioning BOTH the nozzle AND its user's hands and finger parts. In that file there would be a new special cr2 language command DragToRelative" with coordinates (x y z) and orientation angles (xrot yrot zrot) relative to a specified other part, e.g.:- actor nozzle:1 { channels { ... DragToRelative lHand .012 .034 .065 123.5 32.6 33.87 DragToRelative rHand .053 .023 .056 321.8 34.6 45.84 ... where the six nunbers are x y z xrot yrot zrot in that order; the fingers are posed relative to the hands by their ordinary "rotateX" etc cr2 commands. Then the user could do this:- - Put the flamethrower on a man's back. - Parent its tank to his chest part. - Apply this pose-type file. If applied it tries to attract its wearer's hands to the place of operation, and then as above.