I have a render that is going to take about 26 hours for one scene I want to print out on A3 and I want it to look stunning it has lots of reflections in it. Is the difference between superior and ultra vast? Can anyone recommend any good settings to get my render times down ? or... what do you use when you want to print?

There are many render times posts here. I'm sure you can find one. For print the big thing is to keep your DPI way up there. 72dpi will not look good.

yep I have been using 300 dpi, 3500 x ???? someting and Ultra settings but want to trim this down if poss.

Ultra isn't a good preset, it adds a lot of advanced quality boost that isn't needed, and doesn't have good AA setttings either.
If you use an advanced lighting model (AO, GI), in the light tab of the atmo editor, move the quality slider to -0.5, you won't notice loss off quality, but will redner faster.
I also suggest not using GI, since it does the same as AO, but on a global scale that isn't necessary, and adds a lot of render time.
If you use GR, keep quality at zero, and don't use more than 20% shadow smoothing, unless it's an interior render.
Depending on your atmo (spectral with or without clouds, non spectral), you may need to boost the sampling quality of your clouds. Make test renders first. If no spectral clouds, lower the sky quality to -1
Now the render options:
Advanced quality effects boost: keep this around 40%, never above 46.
Reflections: use 6 subrays, unless you are only using water, in this case 5 is enough. Keep recursive rays low, 3 is enough ( this setting controls how many times a reflective surface is reflected on another reflective surface, like a mirror in front of another mirror)
Anti aliasing: I would go for the "crisp" method, which is the best to eliminate aliasing and noise, with min8/max20, quality 70%, with default subpixel sampling (if an interior render with GR, go for systematic)
Adding 10% texture flitering will smooth out the textures, which might be good if you use texture based bump, but will slow down a bit the render. Don't use texture anti aliasing.
Hope this helps.

each scene can have different requirements for better quality settings...it's...complex and requires trial and error, I use "User" settings for "special" work, but takes a hellish long time to render.
I DO notice the difference, but it's very small, most folk won't see it, I will though, talking difference between 3 hours and a day+ render times.

For printing, you need to render large, at LEAST 1600 pixels in size. You can use things like Genuine Fractals in Photoshop to enlarge and keep good quality by the way.

print goes by DPI dots per inch, a dot per inch is related direclty to pixels!
high quality printing requires at least 300 dots per inch. so thats like, 300 pixels per inch you need.
So A3 is 16.5 × 23.4 inches 4950 x 7020 pixels, which is a bloody big render!
or render to half or smaller size, and then mangify it in Photoshop.

I would "suggest" try the following settings, but they will be slow as hell, for very good quality, but each to his own! :)

Edit,
try Bruno's, they'll be faster! ;)

Can 't really help on the render settings here as i 'm still learning that myself, but i found this great article months ago which explains all about the dpi / ppi mystery, and i for one learned a lot from it :-)

So i give you http://www.dpiphoto.eu/dpi.htm

I encourage you all to read it trough and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel !
Hope this will help you a bit :-)

Wim

Right I get everything you are saying however if I type in 4950 the number after it will automatically be less than that number... someone suggested this on poser and I kept getting images that were not whole (clipping occured) when i set to 300 dpi. I get amazing pictures when i do 9500 x 4000 ??ish that fit onto A3 quite well with a bit of photoshop shrinking but they take too long. Are the automated stettings such as 640x 480 or 1600x 1200 just simply square images and will not be good for A3.

what i am saying is if i can put the settings to 4950 x 7020 pixels and then 300 dpi I am pretty much certain the image will not render as it is on screen (this is the case in poser)

Thanks for all the settings will try these later.

note: the image is never stretched just maybe a quarter of it shows up on the final render rather than whole image

You do not need to set  DPI inside Vue!! :)
set the Pixel size, NOT the DPI

Computers do not have "DPI", they have on screen pixels, so leave the DPI setting to the norm in Vue, which is 72 DPI
Printers have DPI, so your interfacing from one set of units to the other, ok? :) Just completely ignore DPI in Vue, it saves hassles. DPI has no meaning at all for computer work, it's only for printers it's important.
Sorry I know it's confusing but not my fault :)

you are trying to:

a) get the right size ratio for A3 that is, 16.5 x 23.4 inches, we need the inch size to easily work out what a printer will later need.
Printers need lots of pixels more pixels = more detail
Print is extremely high resolution, you need 300 dots per inch on a printer to get a good image.
Pixels = dots. If there are too few pixels, the dots are big, so the image appears blocky and "pixellated".

b) have enough pixels to give a very sharp image. you need 300 pixels per inch of print size, hence 4950 x 7020 (300 x A3 size which is 16.5 × 23.4 inches) or, render at a fraction of that size (say 1/2) and enlarge the smaller render image in Photoshop up to 4950 x 7030size, before printing.

read siernia's link :)

Ok that link has baffled me even further, I have been trying to understand this for months now!

All I want to do is print any picture in as much quality as possible on my printer which is a very nice 8 ink canon with A3 capability.

My understanding is set size of image  to 4950 x 7020 and don't move the default setting of 72 dpi/ppi thing at all. 

I will then be able to print my image on A3 with no quality loss/resizing etc?

This image will automatically now print at 300 dpi ( dots per inch ) and it does not matter that i didn't move the default 72 to 300.

Am I right >?

I have been doing more research and found this.......... "My longest was about 180 hours for a 1000x800 (ish) pixel sort of image. Was playing around with trying to get smooth soft shadows out of vue in an interior scene and got a little carried away with AA."

My question why would they want to produce an image that small and spend so long doing so or am I getting the wrong end of the stick and they are talking of a 800 ppi print resolution or something?

The animations I create are 1000 x 800, detailed as hell take prob an hour and half to render a frame, however if I wanted to display as a picture I would make it way bigger especially with 180 hours to waste!

Quote - *Ok that link has baffled me even further, I have been trying to understand this for months now!

All I want to do is print any picture in as much quality as possible on my printer which is a very nice 8 ink canon with A3 capability.

My understanding is set size of image  to 4950 x 7020 and don't move the default setting of 72 dpi/ppi thing at all. 

I will then be able to print my image on A3 with no quality loss/resizing etc?

This image will automatically now print at 300 dpi ( dots per inch ) and it does not matter that i didn't move the default 72 to 300.

Am I right >?*

Correct, mostly :)

The image won't "automatically print" at that size...it's got enough pixels to ensure it prints in high quality, at A3 size.

You can set a printer's DPI to various amounts, but for optimal results, it's 300 DPi, but don't worry about that, the printer knows what the hell it's doing ;)
So ignore the printer, as long as it gets enough pixels per inch it's to print, it's happy.

sorry it's not easy I know :)

Just go with this mantra:

You need 300 pixels per inch of printed size to get a good printed image

So if you want a print 10" by 10" inch, make it 3000 x 3000 pixels in render size. you can find the inch sizes of A3, A4 etc easily on wikipedia, from that, you can work out sizes

Note that big renders = long time and large memory requirements.
Hence many folk render at a fraction of the size and use Photoshop to scale the image up.
to save time, a person wanting a 10" x10" inche render, needs 3000 x 3000 pixel image, so he decides ot render it at half the size to save time, eh takes his 1500x1500 half sized render into Photoshop, enlarges it up to 3000 x 3000 and then prints it.

That's not ideal, enlarging isn't as detailed as a pure render but it's a DAMN sight faster, and if the render is sufficiently large, you won't loose too much detailed in blowing it up.
The best "enlarger" is a thing cllled "Genuine Fractals" expensive but it is very good and used by many render artists.

The printer or print shop MUST get a an image with an assload of pixels to make sure the picture looks detailed and non-blotchy.
:)

Thanks a lot !   no more 9500 x ???? renders ! I think I am understanding this a lot better now thanks for your help .. going to check out Genuine Fractals now ;-)

My pleasure mate :)

alas Gneuine Fractals is expensive (or I'd have bought it, I want ot one day), there are other such apps/plugins for photoshop, and you can use Photoshop itself to enlarge renders, but for highest quality, most folk say Genuine Fractals works best.

I print on 13 x 19 inch paper all the time.  In Vue I set my largest number at either 2200 pixels or 2400 pixels. I start at 2400 pixels and if the render time seems too long, I drop it to 2200 pixels. Tjat drop can make a difference. The other number will follow depending on what picture ratio you have set in the camera settings. I, then, use onOne Software'sGenuine Fractals or Alien Skin's Blow Up  to blow it up. GP suggests that for Epson printers you use 240 or 360 dpi and for HP you use 300. I forgot what it is for Canon. I think 300.

I have reviews of both products on my website of perpetualvisions.com

As Silverblade said, the dpi in Vue is  72.

For the record, Steven is right, the only setting that matters is how many pixels the width and height of the render are. FORGET THE DPI SETTING It's only there for -- oh heck, it's hard to explain and not important anymore-- though it once was sorta important-- now folks resample dpi with zero loss in Photoshop in less than a second with a click of a button. So, just forget the dpi setting and use pixels.

So, say you wanted to print full size at 13 x 19 as Paula has stated above. She said she renders the width at 2400 pixels wide-- which means the 2400 pixels need to stretch to fit 19 inches thus the end result dpi-wise would be:

2400 / 19 which would equal around 126 dpi, which is what she is currently printing her images at (assuming full bleed, i.e. the picture goes all the way to the edge of the 19")

So, if Paula wanted to print out the same image at a full 300 dpi (assuming her printer can print out at 300 dpi, which most can) then she would need the width of the image to be:

19 * 300  = 5700 pixels wide.

Some printers want this resolution, but my tests and experience tell me typically 150 dpi is fine for most print work. If you really need higher resolution, then you can use a 3rd party product like PhotoZoom Pro to 'upsample' it using s-spline technology. This takes only a few seconds and does a great job.

So, in Paula's case, printing out full bleed on a 19" wide print would require a width setting of:

19 * 150 = 2850 pixels wide.

Of course, higher resolution is always preferable, but the render cost is significant with respect to the barely perceived higher print quality. I'm currently staring at 7 different framed renders in my office, which have a print dpi of between 150 and 300 and I seriously can't tell the difference. And I use a very nice Epson archival print quality printer...

Thankyou very much this is all looking good, this morning before I left work I set a render running at 4950 x 7020 I feel I have made a mistake and should have changed the aspect  ratio from 4 :3 to something else! Oh well I will see if this render is complete when i get in .

Thanks for posting recommended settings, however imo everything about the quality of the render compared to a superior or ultra render sucked. I did three renders at 1600 x ???? the difference between Superior and Ultra was highly noticeable and using the settings above it just looked horrible the whole thing looked like it had been washed in darkness and blocky pixels! However did take 1/5 of render time! For printing purposes this is no good for me. I am using Vue 7 these settings are for vue 6 would that make the difference perhaps? The render I have running atm and hopefully will be finished when I get in is set to superior quality. I will have another play around with settings later and see if I can keep the quality but reduce render times.Keep posting recommendations though everyone knows it is all about trial and error ! Again massive thanks I think I understand how to print now (shame I don't know how to render!) ;-)

Update... been printing some stunning A3 images however just using a size of 4950 x (cannot remember automatic amount) at 4:3 ration I think. This just about fits on an A3 page at excellent resolution. I don't understand using *4950 x 7020 it does not fit on page properly and there is lots of clipping. Never seem to have a successfull render using these.

As far as using "user render settings"  I have now reverted from the presets Final, broadcast, ultra etc to User settings.

I find the thing that makes most  difference is the quality slider, as some tutorials suggest leaving it at 49 this leaves it looking way too low for printing purposes and everything just looks a little dull especially in landscapes... however bumping it up to 70 % + does not add a massive amount to render times and looks 100 times better. (some may agree and some may disagree)

Please can someone advise me on what difference* 4950 x 7020 provides compared to the automatic one of 4950 x (can't remember) As the automatic setting fits A3 perfectly.

Are you speaking about the Advance Effects Quality slider? If not, what slider are you referring to?

Thats the one

Like many other people, I don't go above about 46%. My quality is very good on large prints. I'll have to do a test.

I would, 77% vs 46 % is very noticeable for me. I don't know what it is but you can instantly pick out the better quality one (maybe it depends on the types of image you are printing, mine are full of reflections, balls, poser characters, water and sky. If am printing I would rather have the extra render time to get that quality .

Regarding this 46 % why do people stop there ... is it that render times are increased significantly for anything above this?
Or normally is there not much quality difference?
Has anyone else made comparisons like me and what have they found?
Has anyone put the slider to 100 %? I will be attempting this!

I understand that you can probably make the quality up elsewhere from using different settings with lighting etc but I have failed as yet to do it.

46% is the defautl if you are using the Final setting. Some people don't go above 39%. Like all settings people have different ideas. I think it was at the time of Vue 6 that people did testing. I can't remember whether it was on this forum or the registered e-on forum and found that you don't have to go above 39%, for example, to see any quality improvements.

As I said, different people will have different ideas. You just have to experiment and try what others who know a lot suggest.

I use varied settings. If my work is very complex as to textures and functions and is slower rendering for the size of the image I have set, I cut down on some of the areas that use more time as well as check my quality settings in the atmosphere panel. I usually don't like to go over 12 hours because now I have simplified my life and have one fast desktop and a laptop so I render at night. Normally they take from 4-8 hours. If , when I print it, the final print looks good to me, I am satisfied. As I mentioned in a previous post I use software to get my final size for 13 x 19 inch paper.

A lot depends on how you will use the final image if you are talking about still images. There is no absolute  "right" way for everyone.  There are guides which many people over the years have posted. Do a search under rendering and compare the information and then experiment and find what works for you.

Even today, "Resolution" is still one of the most elusive subjects of digital imaging. Something Paul and Chippwalters touched on - about lower final DPIs for the final print - the larger the image being PRINTED, the lower you can make your final DPI.

Bear with me here.

Inside a computer, ppi/dpi means absolutely nothing. An 800x800 pixel image is the same size whether it's 72 ppi, or 1,600 ppi. Once you decide you are going to go to print, some math is needed.

An 8x10, at 300dpi, is 2,400x3,000 pixels. THAT is what you need to set Vue to render, IF you plan on making an 8x10 with the final image.

When you jump up to 11x14 inch territory, or larger, this is where things get a little fuzzy. You see, an 8x10, or smaller, is viewed close up - at most an arm's length away. But an 11x14, 11x17, 16x20? In order to see the whole thing, you really are STARTING at an arm's length away. The bigger you go, the further away your viewer will physically BE from the final print. So you can start lowering your DPI needs.

A billboard you read while driving? That's likely 39dpi. Yes, you read that right! If they made those puppies 300dpi images, the files would be unmanageable. They would just be enormous, and you wouldn't be able to see a difference at that distance anyway, which is why they can drop the dpi so drastically.

Which is why, for a 13x19 inch image, you can drop down to a 150dpi image if you want, which means you set Vue to render out 1,950x2,850 (13x150 / 19x150). The highest you would need for a 13x19 print would be to have rendered it at an equivalent of 200 ppi: 2,600x3,800 pixels in Vue.

16x20 inch final print? You can set to 2,400x3,000 and it will look just fine when printed - BECAUSE you are going to be more than an arm's length away in order to see the whole image on the wall.

Now, every framed print may have a different ratio, which is why you need to figure out what you're printing ahead of time. Grab a calculator, and figure out how many pixels you need to set it to in Vue.

If you plan to print at varying sizes, the BIGGEST being x-amount of inches, then set it to those dimensions, and just realize you may be a little cropping if you plan of doing different sizes, but you have your largest size to start with.

Once you've rendered it out (which will simply be 72ppi in Vue), you bring it into something like Photoshop, and merely click Image > Image Size, and up will come a dialog box. UNCHECK the "Resample" box, then highlight the ("Resolution") 72, and type 300 - or whatever it is you set this up for - 200, 150? This will simply change the SETTING for how Photoshop recognizes it - meaning, how it will be PRINTED OUT from Photoshop. Nothing about the image itself was changed - just how it is recognized by software, for the purposes of printing.

I hope this makes sense.

I wouldn't go as low as you go, especially not if you do commercial printing, stuff that people buy. Why not? They're bound to take a closer look at what they've got and may not be pleased if the spot blocks, instead of details. 16x20 final print I would bump up to 2800x3500. Not a huge step up, but enough to even let the image look nice when you look at it close up. The last thing you want is a customer returning an artwork because of not high enough quality prints. I've dealt with enough clients to know that they take a look close up, even when their image is 16x20 or larger. When I render sizes between 8x11.7 inch and (I'm in Europe, slightly different paper sizes than yours) and 16x24 inch, I stick to 2500x3500 for each format between that range. If I need larger, my render size goes up, If I need smaller my render size goes down. At 8x11.7 inch clients tend to be very critical about the quality, so I want it to be good for lots of details. The get a bit less critical when you go larger, but still want crisp details. At least that's my experience...... contrary to what you say, most of my buyers do NOT stay an arms length from their prints. The pick them up and inspect them up close and want the best.

Don't compromise on this too much. Yes, for sure, you don't need those massive render sizes for larger formats, you wouldn't see much difference. Neither can you go too low, that will be noticeable.

By the way, even so all of this is true, once you go commercial, a lot of commercial printers will reject work that's below 300 dpi. I dealt with a client last week who insisted on 600 dpi. Granted, I didn't output my work at the huge pixel sizes that come with that, I simply used software to upscale my 300 dpi image to 600 dpi and he was happy with it. If your dealing with a commercial printer or agent you may want to check what they want. You can still render at less resolution then what they demand and use something like PhotoZoom to enlarge the image to their demands. Not Photoshop or so, they've got terrible upscale algorithms, dedicated software does the job a lot better.

Thanks for the contribution. I fiddled with the DPI's and the units of measure, but the picture was always 72dpi. So you can set whatever you want, the result is always 72dpi. The number of pixels ultimately determines the resolution.  

Found a calculator to get the preferred pixel quantity per image size: