But what about it's smoothing ability ?

Here's the problem:

A character I sculpted in ZBrush using SP3 as a base.
I also improved the rigging, but still get bad deformations in more dynamic poses.

Left:  No fixes, just the plain rigging
Middle: Joint fix created in ZBrush via DS
Right: Joint fix created using the MorphBrush in PoserPRO

So you have to be very, very carefull to create joint fixes because smoothing isn't possible.

Now the question is, has this behaviour been fixed in Poser 8 ?

Can I pose a figure and then resculpt AND smooth it's joints like I can in DAZ Studio ?

Thanks in advance.

Unless they have totally changed how the morph brush works, I tend to doubt it, becouse the morph brush relies on poser's ability to stack the morph before the joint, which will never give smooth results becouse the vertexes that were supposed to be in a precise spot in the joint falloff area are moved out of position it by the morph brush so are effected differently by the joint than they should, which doesnt happen with standard morphs which effect the mesh after the joint rotation. Studio's MLP reverse deformations, actually calculates the effect of the joint on the morph  (as well as other morphs) rather than use the stack order trick, and zeros all those influences out in the morph,

 okay, that looks painful....not  sure either about the morph brush.  Sharen

yes but Daz Studio does not have an onboard morph brush

no it doesn't. we are discussing using morph loader pro along with an external modeler vs using the morph brush in poser. and which option gives more consistant results for the purpose.

i just turned limits off and attempted to raise the V4 leg. There was unfortunate deformation so I applied the 7.2 morph brush to the crease. It does go haywire....

however, I think this is just using "smooth" too crudely. I can get pretty good results with Push/Pull, restore and spinning the dial on the custom morph.  Another render in a few...

NOTE: I meant to say two posts above "It goes haywire if you just try to use smooth."

I kinda wish that I can do that with some gaps I have on one of the custom morphs I made with 3d programs, but the morph brush tools just makes it worse for me.  I'll give it a push as I don't care to export back to a 3d app, and sent back to Poser only to make matters worse.

Would hope to see some improvements with version 8.

Push pull is fine if you are working in a small area but in the case that JoePublic was demonstrating he was sculpting a large area and trying to smoth out what was very bumpy in the first place,  you can see how far push pull got him, restore isnt really going to relax the surface in its new shape, it just pushes the mesh back towards its old shape, it still leaves a lot of distortion of the mesh, you really need smoothing to relax the mesh, this is true in pretty much any 3D program, even if you have all the fancy tools.

after this brush can go across groups, along with any other tweaks they have done, the tale will need to be retold.

well yeah, its possible they  found a way around the problem, time will tell. my point was that while it kind of looks like the morph brush and reverse deformations are doing the same thing they really aren't, its really apples to oranges as far as how  they act on the model.

I loaded GND 4 and bent her left thigh 97 degrees side to side.

Here is the bad crease that results.

well that does look pretty promising. :)

lookin good

One thing I hope is changed......the relative power between "Smooth" and the the other controls. They are off, imho, by a factor of ten. Any time I switch between Smooth and any other control, I have to change "Magnitude" by ten fold, for instace from .02 to .2

Annoying

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - lookin good

One thing I hope is changed......the relative power between "Smooth" and the the other controls. They are off, imho, by a factor of ten. Any time I switch between Smooth and any other control, I have to change "Magnitude" by ten fold, for instace from .02 to .2

Annoying

::::: Opera :::::

I had to do the same thing OG, if I try to smooth things out without making a mess of things, I would have to lower it to get it up to speed.  But, no matter what, it still gets a hard feel, not a soft one.  So, I feel you pain on that one.

I re-rig meshes and use the morphbrush almost daily because realistic looking joints are my main goal.
So just let's assume I more or less know what I'm doing and if I say that smoothing doesn't work, it just doesn't.

;-)

Yes, you can smooth away an armpit - fold or a litte buttock crease here and there, but it's hit and miss.
If you have to do some major resculpting of the mesh, especially in the buttocks/crotch area, then the mesh goes "boom", regardless what tricks you use.

As wdupre said, you NEED fully working smoothing to get a good joint fix, period.

Now, the morphbrush CAN easily smooth out a joint as good as ZBrush can, BUT....
...you first have to WELD the mesh and turn it in a static prop..

And that of course destroys the vertex order and all existing morphs once you unweld the mesh again.
Studio can compensate for that by "memorizing" the original vertex order, so you can switch between welded prop and unwelded figure as often as you like.
It also is able to "substract" a pose from a mesh, so in the end you only get the "pure" fix morph that makes your unwelded posed figure look exactly like the static welded prop you worked with in ZBrush

NOW, my big question is, HOW is the "New and Improved" morphbrush able to morph across seams ?

Because you have the exact same problem here:
Unwelded figure = Seams.
Welded prop = No seams.

If it can now switch back and forth between "welded" and "unwelded" state, it should ALSO be able to really smooth a joint.

But if it manages to morph across seams using another method, then "real smoothing" would still be a problem, and so are proper joint fix morphs.

That's why I started this post.

Does the morphbush now have an "weld/unweld" switch ?
So that I can fully smooth out a joint while the mesh is welded and then simply unweld the mesh to turn it back into a poseable figure but keep the new shape of the joint as a morph ?

Thanks again.

You seem to think I was contradicting you.  I did not assert anything about Poser 7 or Poser Pro not exploding. I have no doubt you know what you're doing.

I thought you wanted to see how it worked in Poser 8. I have Poser 8. I showed you how it works.

Or am I still not understanding your point?

Morphbrush settings:
smooth/surface
Brush softness - default
Radius -  0.0454
Magnitude - 0.1200
Accumulate-yes
Stroke-yes

You can see the area that I tried to fix.

Bagginsbill, my reply wasn't (only) directed at you.

:-)

But, ok, yes, you showed me some P8 example, but to be honest I can't really tell if it's an improvement over P7/Pro.

As I said, if the deformation isn't too strong, smoothing does work.
But it's hit and miss, and mostly it's miss.

What I need is the ability to have 100% control over a joint, like I currently have in studio.

This is what I get. It looks like the problem is fixed?

Here's a screenshot. Anything look different that you want me to try things with?

Many thanks !
That looks indeed a lot better than P7/PRO can do.

Ahh, that "Average normals" setting is new.
Perhaps that is the magic "weld/unweld" button I was thinking about ? :-)

If you don't mind, I'd like to see how smoothing works without it.

I just finished this (quick and shoddy) GND4 fix using Studio/ZB3, so I can as well post it:

Looks like competition is a good thing after all. :-)

Nice work, Joe.

I have to go to another day of meetings. (Was in one 14 hours yesterday - AAAAAAHH)

I may forget about this, but I'll try not to, and do some more experiments with the new tool to show what it does.

Many thanks ! :-)

Interesting thread. I've been waiting for a more interactive way to make JCMs than MLP provides. That new and improved morph brush looks promising.

Joe possibly seems irritated with me because I implied you can get results in 7.2 on an over limit bend simply by not using Smooth too much and I showed it. If he was insulted because he thought I was implying he 'does not know what he is doing' then that is his over reaction. I also showed the bad results with the current Smooth on such over bends.

I just happen to be a person who figures out ways to get around a poorly behaving tool 'in the meantime.'  As is probably known, I've been using this tool to tame V4's underarm crease problems for years.

Anyway, if indeed the new MBT is behaving as BB is showing, well how cool!

::::: Opera :::::

Still hoping to see some more examples of what the new Poser 8 morphbrush can do.

:-)