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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 27 5:12 pm)
Subject: Antonia - Opinions?
MikeJ: Thanks for trying that out. I'll just add a few more decimal places in the obj file then.
It would be great if the same effect were responsible for the problems in Poser, particularly if the symmetry feature works for other figure. I'll have a look at that as well, but as I said, Poser does strange things, and it might be something different entirely.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Quote - I guess what I could conclude here is that Wings' symmetry tolerance when mirroring is around what LW would see as 3.01-3.02 µm, while Poser's must be considerably less accurate. Or maybe it's that Poser requires far more accuracy. I'm not sure in which direction to look at that. ;-)
It has nothing to do with Wings3D' s tolerance. The mesh goes through several steps of post-processing, during which the numbers get rounded. I thought six decimal places would be more than enough. Apparently I was wrong.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Quote -
It has nothing to do with Wings3D' s tolerance. The mesh goes through several steps of post-processing, during which the numbers get rounded. I thought six decimal places would be more than enough. Apparently I was wrong.
Oh, OK, I see what you're saying. I never tried Wings though, so I wouldn't have known how you do it.
Quote -
MikeJ: Thanks for trying that out. I'll just add a few more decimal places in the obj file then.It would be great if the same effect were responsible for the problems in Poser, particularly if the symmetry feature works for other figure. I'll have a look at that as well, but as I said, Poser does strange things, and it might be something different entirely.
Well you're welcome. Anything I can do to help, you know. :-)
As for Poser, I'd have no idea. In fact, I tried the split morph thingamabob once before, a good while ago. It didn't work, and I never even thought about it again until now, in this situation.
I'd bet it works only with the CP/SM figures, if I had to take a guess.
I do most definitely understand the "Poser does strange things" part though. ;-)
@odf:
I missed it before when you asked about the default units in LW. It depends on what you set it to in the options, but it uses a grid, and one grid unit will always be one of whatever your default unit is set to.
So if I set it to meters, one grid unit will be one meter square, if I set it to feet, one grid unit will be one foot square and so on.
You can't see the grid units in my screen grabs because I usually turn those on or off, depending on what I'm doing.
MikeJ: Thanks! I got what I wanted when you said Antonia was 70cm high in Lightwave. All I needed was a conversion factor so I knew what the tolerance value you told me about meant in absolute numbers.
I've uploaded a symmetrized version of the mesh - meshes really, since I included both low-res and high-res - to the developers site. That should solve your LIghtwave problem. I've played with the morph brush in Poser and the mirror function seemed to work when I replace the old mesh with the symmetrized one. But I have to confess I don't really know what to look for, so I'll leave it to LaurieA to test this.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Quote - ...In fact, I tried the split morph thingamabob once before, a good while ago. It didn't work, and I never even thought about it again until now, in this situation.
I'd bet it works only with the CP/SM figures, if I had to take a guess.
I do most definitely understand the "Poser does strange things" part though. ;-)
Actually, the split morph does work with Antonia, at least with the morphs I made with the morph brush tool :o).
Laurie
Cool, I'll definitely be checking out the new Antonia later. Gotta take off for a few hours and no time now though.
Thanks, Olaf. :-)
Laurie, I'd suspect that morphs made in Poser will be more likely work with Split Morph because Poser is using its own internal measurements to figure it out. It's probably doing like Zbrush and mirroring across the X in terms of distance from 0 on the X axis, as opposed to mirroring explicit vertex translations like modeling programs do.
Hmmm...I forgot you can't mirror an existing morph in Poser. I'll have to do it in something else, but I'm not a modeler and I've no idea what...lol. Even at that, I'll need to be able to export the head obj with just one side of the morph on, bring it into something else and be able to mirror that in an external program. I've got no idea how.
Laurie
What I usually do in Wings is split the mesh along the x-axis (there's an edge loop in the middle specifically for that) and throw away one half. Wings has a virtual mirror feature, so although I'm only working on half a mesh, it looks as if everything I do on one side was automatically applied to the other. When I'm done, I just export as an obj and Wings creates the full mesh before it writes the geometry out. The problem is that the vertex order gets messed up that way, so I have to send the obj file through my vertex order fixing program.
Modeling software that lets you edit the full mesh symmetrically is definitely easier.
At the moment, I have Scala code to do the following things to a mesh:
- flip along the x-axis
- symmetrize along the x-axis by taking the average of the original and the flipped mesh (added that today)
- apply a morph with a possibly messed up vertex order to a base mesh
- the same, but transferring the morph from low-res to high-res or vice versa (although the later will only work for relatively smooth morphs)
I could easily write code to flip a morph and add both sides together. That would make a symmetrical morph from a left or right one created by morph splitting in Poser.
If anyone's interested, I can package all that stuff together in a jar file that you should be able to run by double-clicking if you have a correctly installed, relatively recent Java (at least on Windows; on a Mac you might also need to sacrifice half your lunch to your favorite pagan deity). I might even provide a quick-and-dirty GUI if you ask really nicely. :laugh:
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
hello guys! :) I am trying to make some morphs for antonia but without success. Initially I made in zbrush and I imported to poser but it gave me this error on the bend,
I tried to make the same now in poser 8 and the same error ocurred.
I show here has an example of morph thighs thickness and the problem that happens
Quote - ...Modeling software that lets you edit the full mesh symmetrically is definitely easier.
LOL...that may be true if you're already a modeler. I don't have the first clue when I open a modeling program. 
Quote - I could easily write code to flip a morph and add both sides together. That would make a symmetrical morph from a left or right one created by morph splitting in Poser.
I asked in the Python Scripting Forum if mirroring an existing split morph could be done with a script. We'll see what kinda feedback I receive ;o).
Quote - ...on a Mac you might also need to sacrifice half your lunch to your favorite pagan deity). I might even provide a quick-and-dirty GUI if you ask really nicely. :laugh:
You forgot the part about giving up your firstborn as well...lmao.
If you could make something that would flip the morphs, even in an outside program that's not too complicated, I guess that would work for me. I just get so totally lost in a modeling program ;o).
Laurie
Whoa. apollyonpt, it's not friendly to post such huge pictures.
There are two ways to handle this:
1) Just attach the image to your post using the Attach a File feature at the bottom of the Reply area. The image will be scaled down for in-thread display and made into a link to see the full size.
- For externallyl hosted images, such as yours, embed the image URL, but make sure you select 600 pixels wide. Then select the image, and click the Link icon and enter the same URL to the image. Then the image will appear small in-thread, and be clickable to the ful size version.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Quote - Whoa. apollyonpt, it's not friendly to post such huge pictures.
There are two ways to handle this:
1) Just attach the image to your post using the Attach a File feature at the bottom of the Reply area. The image will be scaled down for in-thread display and made into a link to see the full size.
- For externallyl hosted images, such as yours, embed the image URL, but make sure you select 600 pixels wide. Then select the image, and click the Link icon and enter the same URL to the image. Then the image will appear small in-thread, and be clickable to the ful size version.
Really!...I thought it was just IE, so I switched to Firefox and, nope, still HUGE...lol.
Laurie
I can't stand reading this way so we have two choices.
I can unsubscribe until we get to page 119, or we can fill up nonsense posts to get to the next page.
There's tons of interesting things being posted and discussed. I love that MikeJ has joined and am learning a lot from these posts, but I'm not going to side scroll my way through.
So, do I pause or do we fill with nonsense?
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Here's some nonsense to get us started.
Poser 8 requires Internet access.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
I've heard Poser 8 requires you dance naked in the moonlight at 12:49 am holding a candle in one hand and a pitchfork in the other while singing "My Favorite Things"? Or maybe that was Poser 7???...well, no matter. The neighbors enjoy it so I guess I'll continue....
If that's not nonsense, then nothing is...lol.
;o).
Laurie
Quote - I can't stand reading this way so we have two choices.
I can unsubscribe until we get to page 119, or we can fill up nonsense posts to get to the next page.
There's tons of interesting things being posted and discussed. I love that MikeJ has joined and am learning a lot from these posts, but I'm not going to side scroll my way through.
So, do I pause or do we fill with nonsense?
Nonsense? Now that is something I can help with! Hehehe... :b_grin: :b_tonguewink:
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
Wooooooot! More on the way....
Oh wideness of this type is a consequence of excessive pixels in a sequence going from left to right in an order and variety that results in something image-like of excessive size...
Remember. Always be careful what you ask for. You might get it. :b_nervous: LOL! :b_tonguewink: :b_tonguewink: :b_stunned:
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
Quote - > Quote - I know what this page needs...
...of course...
...more cow bell...
Doesn't everything need more cowbell?? lol.
Laurie
Awesome!!!!! I have nothing to say.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Quote - > Quote - Umm, yes. I've noticed that with another morph. Something weird happens when one morphs and then bends the right thigh - but it doesn't occur with the left.
Must investigate...
Actually i tried on the left on and the same error ocurred..... :(
That's really odd. I think I've seen this someplace before. I wish I could remember where.
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
@ odf
That new OBJ is a lot better, definitely a huge improvement. I set LW back to its default 1 micron tolerance and the symmetry looks to be perfect almost everywhere I try it. There are 5 polygons on the brow mesh, the five closest to the X axis, from the bottom up, that don't select in symmetry. The very top one does.
But that's hardly anything to complain about and I can deal with that easily enough.
That is all I've found, everything else seems to be perfect.
Excellent job, and thank you! :thumbupboth:
I might add that the symmetry for it in Modo is the same now too.
I don't know if anyone mention it but for symmetric morphs there is also MTmirror
www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/~masasi/DOWNLOAD/other/index.htm
it makes a good job on symmetric meshes and also can handle a bit of non symmetric without noticing it...
Quote - If anyone's interested, I can package all that stuff together in a jar file that you should be able to run by double-clicking if you have a correctly installed, relatively recent Java (at least on Windows; on a Mac you might also need to sacrifice half your lunch to your favorite pagan deity). I might even provide a quick-and-dirty GUI if you ask really nicely. :laugh:
Hello odf,
even if I am not part of the current Antonia development team I'd be really interested in such a package, especially the low/ high-rez exchange of morphs.
Will it only be usable for the Antonia or can it also be used for other meshes, like conforming clothes?
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I'm back.
Yeah I kinda thought about that later, about the µ symbol. So I guess I was right about it being a micron.
Anyhow, I've been trying some settings out on Antonia for about a half hour now and found out I have to raise the symmetry tolerance in LW to 3.02 µm before I get all polygons on both sides of the face selected by selecting all on only one side. 3.02 microns is still a rather tiny amount and within the range of acceptable symmetry, I'd say. Obviously that's relative to what size LW sees Antonia as being and would differ from app to app. But still, a relative measurement is how it all works anyway, since all 3D apps have a different internal working scale.
That's good, in that now I can at least make morphs using symmetry.
You know, it hadn't even occurred to me to set the symmetry tolerance to something else. Never had to mess with it before, since I usually model in symmetry or mirror one side over. And of course, LW always made it perfectly symmetric, because after all, it was dealing with its own tolerances.
The bad news is that if I make a morph on the right side and load it into Poser and try the Split Morph, while it makes a pair of morph dials, the morph on the left side is all messed up. And vice-versa. I'm assuming that's because Poser's tolerance is far less forgiving. And what others here have said imply that too.
I wouldn't have any idea what Poser's symmetry tolerance is though. Probably would have to ask the developers themselves.
I don't know if this information helps you any. I can try to get a more exact number if you'd like. I mean, symmetry didn't work completely at 3.01 µm, but did at 3.02 µm. It may actually be something like 3.015 µm for all I know. If you need me to start going into the third decimal place to see if I can find a more exact number, let me know.
I haven't tried it in Modo with different settings, but I have every reason to believe the results would be very very close, if not identical. The people who developed Modo are actually most of the original LightWave developers who left Newtek to form Luxology and make Modo. Which is why you'll find a lot of LW users also using Modo, and why the two programs play so well together.