soon supposed to be a post here, but I'm faster than a speeding bullet ...and not all that enthused as John is

As of today, November 16th, 2009, the Vanishing Point Marketplace is
closing. We have finalized a purchase agreement with Renderosity where
they will acquire the Vanishing Point-owned products and the resale rights
to the merchant-created products.

The purchase of these resources will allow Renderosity to offer a much
larger selection of 3D models and resources under its Marketplace brand
RPublishing. The purchase will also allow the Vanishing Point team to get
back into the creative process of developing new and innovative products.
In fact, all of the new products developed by the Vanishing Point team
will be sold exclusively at Renderosity!

The Vanishing Point website will remain, so we encourage everyone to
continue visiting our other sections, such as the Free Stuff and Gallery.

For more information on the acquisition you can read the Site Announcement
on the Front Page of Renderosity:
http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=14815&AID=912

Thank you
-John

You may unsubscribe to this newsletter by changing your Member
Preferences:
Log on to Vanishing Point, then click on the 'My Account' Link, click on
the 'Member Preferences' link, then uncheck the option for 'Subscribe to
Newsletter?'.

Firstly, I knew nothing about this. I'm just as surprised as you. However, I would remind folks that Vanishing Point I'm certain has it's own reasons for doing whatever they do, as does RO. A crappy world economy such as this creates strange bedfellows ;o). I can only think that it had at least something to do with it, as well as other strange things that have gone on at other prominent Poser-related sites. If you look around, it's happening all over, not just in our little Poserverse...lol.

Laurie

I'm afraid we're having a washing out and demise of a lot of vendors and marketplaces ... mainly due to the economy...
bummer...

its not good for the consumer, imo ... things will become somewhat of a monopoly., certain sies dictate what products will be sold ...what they consider the market ...it slows down and diminishes creativity

Quote - Firstly, I knew nothing about this. I'm just as surprised as you. However, I would remind folks that Vanishing Point I'm certain has it's own reasons for doing whatever they do, as does RO. A crappy world economy such as this creates strange bedfellows ;o). I can only think that it had at least something to do with it, as well as other strange things that have gone on at other prominent Poser-related sites. If you look around, it's happening all over, not just in our little Poserverse...lol.

Laurie

I'm surprised you didn't know. Rendo has informed certain parties (like affiliates) about this earlier already.

When the economy was good, we did see all kinds of poser stores open. Now that the economy isn't as good anymore, the opposite happens. Kind of natural. Most likely more will go out of business, this market is way to small for all the merchants that try to operate on it.

Quote - its not good for the consumer, imo ... things will become somewhat of a monopoly., certain sies dictate what products will be sold ...what they consider the market ...it slows down and diminishes creativity

I don't think that will happen too much. All we see merchants do is releasing the same old over and over again. For a lot of merchants, creativity left the building a long time ago.

Quote - certain sies dictate what products will be sold ...what they consider the market ...it slows down and diminishes creativity

Or... encourage creativity as if one doesn't have the cash or the moola to purchase items, one can pick up a 3D software (cheap or free) and learn to create the desired items. :woot:

The other thing that surprised me was that Renderosity had their own store in the marketplace.

I wonder if this means that Rendo will start having separate sales of their own line of products in a similar fashion to DAZ originals sales?

not heard of their store since the Renda farce ;)

 Renderosity has had their own line (RPublishing) for years, but has only had products in it for the last 2 ;)  The vendors supplying the items thus far have been Bobbie25, Propschick, and Rhiannon, all creators with quality products, great customer feedback, and diverse product lines.

This will only add to the diversity of products.  The Vanishing Point products are renowned in their quality and creativity.   As JHoagland said in his statement (published in the media release that was sent out to tech outlets and affiliates), this will give them more time to focus on creating rather than having to deal with the full-time job that is running a store.  I've seen a lot of complaints here and elsewhere that all that's sold here is hookerwear or lingerie...well, it's not ;)  I haven't bought a lick of clothing here in months, but I've been plugging away a bit of every paycheck here.  On what?
Sets.  Useful and random props.  Diverse characters.  Hair.  Buildings. 
Sure, there's lingerie here.  Sure, there are outfits sold here that I haven't even seen girls wear at the club.  But there's a lot of quality products all over the MP that have nothing to do with clothing, don't require DAZ figures, and won't make your mother blush.  

I see this as a great thing.  Everything I've ever purchased from Vanishing Point, or downloaded as a freestuff item, has been nothing but top-notch quality, and is never more taxing on my system than it needs to be.  I think that's a very important selling point, quality without being "system heavy".  

Plus, new things by quality artists can never, IMHO, be a bad thing, whether they're sold in the MP or put up in the freestuff.  

Quote - not heard of their store since the Renda farce ;)

Doesn't rhyme, I prefer "The Renda Benda"

Quote -
[
I don't think that will happen too much. All we see merchants do is releasing the same old over and over again. For a lot of merchants, creativity left the building a long time ago.

Quoted for agreement.!!!

 I'm going to show my ignorance of a lot of things, but here goes...

I have a hosting account at hostgator that runs me $7.95/mo. This gives me the ability to host about a terrabyte in storage and many times that in transfer. I've got a paypal account and know how to create a paypal cart for my customers.

Since paypal takes their cut off the top, their charges are of no concern. The cost of hosting is close enough to minimal to be considered nothing.

The big question: Why are stores going broke? The cost of virtual real-estate is darn near nothing, and there is no inventory to house or ship. The only way I can see someone losing money is if they are taking the charges and not immediately paying the artists their cut. Put another way, this 8is as close to a no-overhead business as can be constructed.

If people are trying to make a living this way, that may be another story. In that case, you keep your day job until the store generates an income stream. My own suspicions is that VERY* few artists do this fulltime. I just don't see it being a living. For companies like Vanishing Point, who have a payroll to maintain, I see the problem. Perhaps this never has been something to do full time as the guys over at Poserworld have explained time and again.

I suspect a large portion of the problem is what people choose to offer in their stores. We've already had several posts about there being far too many faeries and other cutesie-poo cartoon characters in the mix. I'd actually pay $50 to see the sales figures for Near Me or Rosy Cheeks Lena for the last three months. Add in the knee-jerk reaction that when things get slow the temptation is to go with "sex sells" and a ton of slutwear gets rushed to market.

Now, at the risk of giving people far more info than they really want, I've never been a big fan of fetish wear of any kind. I think if you want a human being to be sexually alluring, you put them au natural, with a "come-hither' expression. At least that's what does it for me. The clothing are the props I need to get to that point... to flesh out the story. I'm talk that "real" clothing doesn't sell, but upon doing an inventory, that's what I've bought by and large. Yes, My girls have the full compliment of underwear, but I quit buying at three different styles of bras

What I can't get enough of is sets and scenery. I've spent a dollar on that stuff for every dime I've spent on clothing, and I've spent a young fortune on clothing.

So, back to the question... why would poser stores be closing in the bad economy. I would think this would be the kind of backroom business that you'd keep after, since it's all gravy. Have I missed something?

Quote -  I'm going to show my ignorance of a lot of things, but here goes...

I have a hosting account at hostgator that runs me $7.95/mo. This gives me the ability to host about a terrabyte in storage and many times that in transfer. I've got a paypal account and know how to create a paypal cart for my customers.

Since paypal takes their cut off the top, their charges are of no concern. The cost of hosting is close enough to minimal to be considered nothing.

The big question: Why are stores going broke? The cost of virtual real-estate is darn near nothing, and there is no inventory to house or ship. The only way I can see someone losing money is if they are taking the charges and not immediately paying the artists their cut. Put another way, this 8is as close to a no-overhead business as can be constructed.

If people are trying to make a living this way, that may be another story. In that case, you keep your day job until the store generates an income stream. My own suspicions is that VERY* few artists do this fulltime. I just don't see it being a living. For companies like Vanishing Point, who have a payroll to maintain, I see the problem. Perhaps this never has been something to do full time as the guys over at Poserworld have explained time and again.

I suspect a large portion of the problem is what people choose to offer in their stores. We've already had several posts about there being far too many faeries and other cutesie-poo cartoon characters in the mix. I'd actually pay $50 to see the sales figures for Near Me or Rosy Cheeks Lena for the last three months. Add in the knee-jerk reaction that when things get slow the temptation is to go with "sex sells" and a ton of slutwear gets rushed to market.

Now, at the risk of giving people far more info than they really want, I've never been a big fan of fetish wear of any kind. I think if you want a human being to be sexually alluring, you put them au natural, with a "come-hither' expression. At least that's what does it for me. The clothing are the props I need to get to that point... to flesh out the story. I'm talk that "real" clothing doesn't sell, but upon doing an inventory, that's what I've bought by and large. Yes, My girls have the full compliment of underwear, but I quit buying at three different styles of bras

What I can't get enough of is sets and scenery. I've spent a dollar on that stuff for every dime I've spent on clothing, and I've spent a young fortune on clothing.

So, back to the question... why would poser stores be closing in the bad economy. I would think this would be the kind of backroom business that you'd keep after, since it's all gravy. Have I missed something?

It's not just about money, but time as well.

This isn't one man selling his own stuff. This is brokering other vendors. There are contracts, financial forms and paperwork, taxes to be paid, lawyers to be paid for services, time spent taking care of servers and software, paying credit card services (since most places take more than paypal), testing products before they hit market, checking for legal problems with every new item offered, etc.

Vanishing Point, like many others, begin with making products and that is their true love. They've run a good business and had and nice storefront, but now it's time to get back into the creation business and leave that other stuff to others. I applaud them and hope this new situation is beneficial to all parties involved.

-- Jeff

 Stores are going broke because no one is visiting them, or not enough people are visiting them.  I, along with my friends Butterfly_fish and Valerian70, ran our own content store after a bad experience with another venture that we'd been with.  For me, I wanted to test the waters, but I was actually too intimidated to upload either here or elsewhere.  My freestuff was doing great (most of which is gone, due to the original props/clothing no longer being available), so, we decided to open our own store.  Our host was Hostgator, we paid $8 a month for hosting.
The problem was, even with advertising here (when it was still allowed) and DAZ, we might hit about $5, on average, per month in sales.  Being that there were 3 of us, 2 with full-time jobs, and all of us with kids, it wasn't feasible for any of us to sit at the computer all day and make products, run the store, and answer any questions in the forums (which were the most active part of the site).  None of us wanted to churn out product after product and samey stuff all the time, so, we migrated to CP, where we might get more exposure.  
That kind of worked.  For a while, until their last change, and then we decided that it would be for the best to part ways with CP.  Due to database problems, server problems, and the like, we never re-opened the store at CGRealms.  I've moved my freebies, but my old products that clearanced out here aren't sold anymore.  I might end up putting them in freestuff, if I can find them again, but, that's beside the point.

The fact is, having your own, smaller, store will only work if you already have a huge customer base that will follow you to your own store.  On top of that, you have to spend time administering your site, making sure products are tested, making sure customers are getting what they paid for, and answering questions.  (Yes, we tested our products.  All 3 of us were testers at one point for either Renderosity or RDNA.)
The cost isn't just hosting.  It's time.  It's reputation.  It's advertising.  It's marketing.
If you're not good at marketing, your small store is going to tank.  If you don't have a ready-made customer base, your small store is going to struggle.
It takes more than paid-for hosting and the will to make a store work.  You NEED customers to visit and make purchases.  It needs to be worthwhile.  A small store might be able to get away with small-scale hosting like hostgator, but the larger stores don't use hosting like that.  DAZ's, I believe, is in-house.  IIRC, Renderosity uses an off-site, small-scale server farm that is close to the main office.  I don't know what RDNA uses, offhand.  Regardless, none of them would survive on a hostgator account ;)

With all the gloom and doom in here, I wonder if some posters go to funerals to relax :)

If you choose to look for them, there are lots of postitives here. John has made it clear he's certainly going to make new content.

As one of the co-founders of VP, I'm certainly not out of the brokering and content game either. I've got a new store (click the banner below) that will bring some new ideas, pricing models and try to work closely with other artists and stores.

Plus over the next few months I'll be producing content that will be avaliable in various ways and places. Some stuff will exclusive to rosity, other bits will more generally avaliable, giving you, the artist a wider choice. All will be of the usual high standard and originality.

Most importantly it will fun!

 psst mrsparky, your banner is a broken image ;)

edit  never mind, must have been fixed before I hit "post" ;)

 BTW, I didn't mean to, AT ALL, imply that VP was going broke.  It's not even actually anyone's business, really.  The question was raised regarding why sites are closing/going broke, and I answered from my personal experience.  I'm sure there are others.

*edit never mind, must have been fixed before I hit "post" ;)

• I fixed the banner a few days ago - that might explain why.

*BTW, I didn't mean to, AT ALL, imply..

• I know. and yes there lots of sites closing down or changing things.
  So yes it's good to discuss that and what effect it might have on the hobby we all enjoy.  

Quote -

So, back to the question... why would poser stores be closing in the bad economy. I would think this would be the kind of backroom business that you'd keep after, since it's all gravy. Have I missed something?

They are going broke because the general Glut of content
can no longer be sustained by the Easy Credit party that has (THANKFULLY) abruptly ended in America& elsewhere.

When you base an economy on Debt you create of False Industries and false "spending power" as a side effect.
when the debt bubble collapses all of that Glut quickly begins to disappear.
many of the poser stores that are going under likely should not have existed in the first place.

This "market" was never sustainable and its time people stopped deluding  themselves into believing that it ever was.

What percentage of people are actually using their purchased contentin some commercial service and making a return on their "investment"???

I would guess very few

Compulsive Digital hoarders with Runtime folders exceeding 100's Gigs that represent thousands of Dollars worth of What??

Pretend ,mostly fantasy, clothing. "3d models" and formulaic, puffy lipped "Character morph"&texture sets.

All being cranked out by an ever growing horde of competing interests with ever decreasing prices in a race to the bottom.

But  now in an economy where Wages are stagnant& Declining while the true Costs of Living (FOOD& ENERGY) ,are rising rapidly, people have been forced to Acknowledge how useless
Most poser "Content" really is.

I expect the Culling to continue.

Cheers

did anyone order the lecture with extra olives?

 enough of that.

whaaaaaaaaat looks innocent

Before this gets locked (go on, prove me wrong everyone) I'd just like to wish John and all those associated with VP the best of luck in all and any future endeavours.

there is a lenghty thread at DAZ that talks about what vendors need to do to stay afloat..

I know my disposable income has tanked over the last year or so. About the only time I purchase is if I happen to get a couple of overtime hours where I may have a bit of "extra" cash, but in reality, I should use that to pay off my debt, which is rising pretty fast because of the interest rates going up. The cost of everything is pretty darn high.

unfortunaltely, that leaves purchases here going down...probably happening to most of us.

Quote - I'm surprised you didn't know. Rendo has informed certain parties (like affiliates) about this earlier already.

I'm in the process of moving and renovating and don't have a computer available to me like I normally do ;o). I missed it totally. Everyone else knew before I knew...lol ;o).

On a related subject, maybe Rendo can buy up some of 3d Commune...or not. just throwin' it out there...

congrats on the sale, helgard & hoag.  I dunno if there were similar level of content at 3dcommune, but apparently I erred earlier in assuming tim owned rdna.  does this mean it's available?

Even if they do not sell their stuff at VP anymore, I hope they'll keep updated the site and the store pages with the new products.

Their search engine is much better than Rendo, and items are classified by category (vehicle/land/bikes, for example). Finding something this way is much easier than here.

(I still wonder how a modern site like Renderosity can survive with a search engine so primitive, "but that's another story, and shall be told another time" - M. Ende, The Neverending Story).

Giorgio

As a vendor at VP I can say the last 5 moths have been really rough. Of course, it is just a hobby to me and not a living. That being said, things have really picked up last month, and are off to a gang buster start this month. Perhaps a sign the economy is turning around. Anyway, I am currently trying to decide if I will keep my products under the vanishing point banner, or start my own store. I certainly have many many items in the process of completion, and hope to get some out soon regardless which way I decide to go.

I thank everyone at VP and everyone that has ever purchased or downloaded a freebie of mine, for their support. 

If not for Helgard at VP, I may never have made a dime off my passion for WWII items and artwork. His help was invaluable and i owe him a debt of gratitude.

I've asked John about the issue of repeat downloads.

He says ... "Either contact him about a repeat download Or much simpler, Go to your Purchase History page on VP and click the button to re-download a product."

Also please remember what John says above, the site is NOT closing down, so you'll be able to get your dowloads long in the future.

I really can not say much about the VP store, as mostly I have purchased the VP products from either CP or here. But I do have faith in rosity doing them justice.

I can say as far as John, he has been a great help to me many times, even with products outside what his own store sold. Not to mention those tutorials he had in my early days of Poser. That to me makes a merchant more priceless than what he / she sells.

So I wish John the very best in whatever he does in the future :)

Quote - > Quote -

So, back to the question... why would poser stores be closing in the bad economy. I would think this would be the kind of backroom business that you'd keep after, since it's all gravy. Have I missed something?

They are going broke because the general Glut of content
can no longer be sustained by the Easy Credit party that has (THANKFULLY) abruptly ended in America& elsewhere.

When you base an economy on Debt you create of False Industries and false "spending power" as a side effect.
when the debt bubble collapses all of that Glut quickly begins to disappear.
many of the poser stores that are going under likely should not have existed in the first place.

This "market" was never sustainable and its time people stopped deluding  themselves into believing that it ever was.

What percentage of people are actually using their purchased contentin some commercial service and making a return on their "investment"???

I would guess very few

Compulsive Digital hoarders with Runtime folders exceeding 100's Gigs that represent thousands of Dollars worth of What??

Pretend ,mostly fantasy, clothing. "3d models" and formulaic, puffy lipped "Character morph"&texture sets.

All being cranked out by an ever growing horde of competing interests with ever decreasing prices in a race to the bottom.

But  now in an economy where Wages are stagnant& Declining while the true Costs of Living (FOOD& ENERGY) ,are rising rapidly, people have been forced to Acknowledge how useless
Most poser "Content" really is.

I expect the Culling to continue.

Cheers

Quoted for total agreement! Yeah I was one of those digital Hoarders, It's a habit I've happily broken! Now if I could just step off from the upgrade treadmill I should be fine!

VP always offered unique and awesome stuff. Glad to see Rendo will keep the products available and the VP creators will keep creating cool 3d stuff

What a lousy time to sell it would seem to me, but better than other possibly unfortunate alternatives I suppose.

Like putting your house on the market right now. Why not wait a year or two? The economy could experience an up tick. Oh well, what's done is done.

Later,