I've just started uploading my first 3D Poser models on Renderosity. So far I'm starting with some freebie props. I hope to eventually work my way up to more complex conforming figures and morphing props which I hope to eventually sell on the forums.

I come to find myself sort of in an ethical dilemma with some of the freebies I've posted. I realize that I am doing consumers a favor by giving away my freebies. In these economic times people can't afford to buy everything they may want. But I also realize that I could perhaps be undercutting vendors who are trying to make a living by selling their wares. Again, in these hard times people need to make their money and if someone like me is out there playing Santa Claus, giving away freebies, then this may mean that fewer people will want to buy some things which vendors are selling. Why pay for a prop when you can get it free from me?

What do people think of giving away 3D models? Good idea or bad idea?

Thanks.

You WORRY too much!
dph
PS: It's STILL a free country, so DO whatever you want to do, and to HECK with what other people think.

Make things that are unique. That way you can give them away without undercutting any existing product, or sell them and watch everyone else play catch-up.  

Giving away freebies is a good way to get your name established as a content creator.  Vendors don't usually mind (unless it's a product which competes directly) because most of us have - and sometimes still do - created freebies.

I have several available and I have yet to receive a single complaint from a fellow vendor.

Frankly I'd be more concerned about the ethics of anyone complaining about your freebies! Complaining about freestuff is just rude.

Quote - Why pay for a prop when you can get it free from me?

I think creators overestimate the value sometimes. I don't know your items but to be honest, I guess if one browses through the freebies for example in this forum, I don't believe that users would pay for more than 2-3 % of the freebies. Most of them are indeed props, simple things that any beginner with a modeling software could create. For Poser beginners they are nevertheless great, I used a few of them when I started with Poser. This should also be considered, when people start with a 3D app they already spent their money on the program, in some cases they also spent money for better PCs, more RAM. You really don't want to spend your money then on little props like a beer can, a coffee mug or a set of poses, that has to wait.

But I also think that people who create valuable free Python scripts that are used for years, I'm a fan of SDVL's 'texture filtering off' and Bagginsbill's VSS, should be rewarded. Smith Micro could offer them a deal to integrate these scripts (and the environment sphere) into Poser. Because they help to make Poser a more enhanced program for the users, yes this should be paid by SM and not the users, great features for the software.  And they really work and don't need a SR.

Well let's see if I can say this without offending anyone.

Everyone knows that we give freebies away and it is a way to not only to save othes money and give out gifts, but it also shows others the quality of your work.  Knowing that you give out worthwhile freebies draws others to your sale work.

The issue others have with freebies is as you said undercutting other vendors.  Like Paloth says, try to be unique.  Don't just go and look at what others are selling, do some research or to Renderosity's wish list to see what people can't find and what they do want, whether it be free or not.

We try not to copy anyone, we try to be very unique, and trust me now a days it is difficult.  Not like it use to be when we all first started a long time ago.  The field was really open a long time ago, but now it looks like all has been created....but guess what, that is not accurate.

We are creating something now, that we researched and from what we have seen, only one has been available and it was for free,  this item was not created specifically for Poser, so it will be as we see it unique and specifically created for Poser users.  Others can use it in other programs, but like I said specific to Poser.

We have been creating for years and we have been copied many times, it is just the luck of the draw, it bothers us, but this is a competive area and you have to be able to take that.  As an upcoming vendor will have to realize this also.  If you do the best you can, you will be seen and you will get a following.

Always remember, take the extra time it needs to create good and unique quality work.  You will receive the respect from all, whether it is free or not. 

We totally give respect out to others that have put the time into any prop/figure that is surely quality work.

I think the worst thing that happens when you give out freebies or sale items that you work really hard for, is when someone actually steals your creation and gives it away for free or sells your hard work under their name.  That is a real bummer and totally unethical.  Be forwarned that will happen to you, I think it has happend to all of us over time.

Sharen

PS:  I see you don't have any bio in your member list here.  You might want to do that, many want to know about the vendors and members who give things away for free, we want to know the people we deal with.  Sharen

My opinion as  vender myself:
you have no obligation to "protect the market"
of other Vendors. and as other have stated I rarely RARELY see freebies that are are of the quality of the paid items particularly in the genre In which I work
(Sci-Fi/Animation).

The reality is this: we "poser/DAZ /3D" people etc
do NOT produce anything that can literally be eaten,worn or lived in.
its just for entertainment/veiwing.

This notion that poser content is somehow $big business$
with all of the cutthroat, greedy competitiveness is what has
largely destroyed these communities  IMHO

cheers

So long as you don't obviously make something almost exact as a for-sale item, I don't see a problem with it. I mean, this community started as nuthin but freebies after all ;o). I wouldn't go out and copy something and give it away as a freebie (that would be rude), but if I make let's say a top hat and there is a top hat in a clothing set in the marketplace, that doesn't make me a copy cat. A top hat is, well, kind of a universal ;o).

As for me, I think I've always given away more than I've actually sold (I did used to be a vendor). Not sure why that is...maybe because I like making things in really small batches such as one prop or other or one texture set or other. It's a lot of work to get something ultra refined and ultra right in order to sell IMHO and I guess, in my case anyway, I just don't have the drive to go that far anymore...lol.

Just use you're judgement and you'll be fine.

Laurie

 if you have not been around Poserland for years you may not realize that one of the contributing factors to the growth of Poser is Freebies. Years ago there was no marketplace, only a group of 3d artists trying to improve Poser by sharing what they made.  Morphs, textures, clothes, props, everything.

in fact a lot of those people went on to become vendors today.

So don't worry about it, you will be helping the community, not hurting it.

Yep, we were all just carin' and sharin'...lol.

Ah, those were the days ;o).

Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a vendor. More power to you and I wish em all well. It's a lot of work to put a whole multiple set of textures together or an entire outfit and what not. But freebies are great to get you out there and seen :o).

Laurie

gary, vendors' big worry is that somebody will post their items on a warez site or server AFAIK (no names please).  I support their right to sell items for which they own the coypright.  poser users have very deep pockets and will buy any well-advertised items, hence any competition from generous freebie providers is no major concern IMVHO.

*So long as you don't obviously make something almost exact as a for-sale item, I don't see a problem with it.

*Sometimes, it's the other way around. I made a freebie of a foldable beachchair, and after a few weeks I saw suddenly some of the same type (or almost similar) beachchair for sale at other websites (including daz). I even wrote an angry email to a vendor of busting copyright (yes, you can even have copyright on freebies.) But it's very hard to prove if someone just copied and altered your model, so I like to see me now as a source of inspiration to others. :lol:

best regards,

Bopper.

If you put together an item and give it away free, and it causes any change in any vendor's sales, that is kind of the problem of that vendor and the value of their products.  If the value of a commercial item is so low that free stuff is in the same ball park, well, I think you can see.

Quote - I think creators overestimate the value sometimes. I don't know your items but to be honest, I guess if one browses through the freebies for example in this forum, I don't believe that users would pay for more than 2-3 % of the freebies.

There's another side to that idea.

If your posting freebies and no one is downloading them, you probably don't want to become a vendor yet.  I know some sellers like evilinnocence post freebie models from time to time.  I think it is a good idea because it helps people become familiar with your work and what you are capable of.

Quote - I don't believe that users would pay for more than 2-3 % of the freebies. Most of them are indeed props, simple things that any beginner with a modeling software could create.

Maybe I'm just conceited (but I doubt it...lol), but I think some people would pay for mine.

I actually put all the time and effort into a freebie that I did for my former commercial stuff. I just do it it much smaller quantities ;o).

That's unfair to some of us that take pride in even our freestuff. Speaking for myself, that is ;o). I don't share anything that I myself wouldn't use or wouldn't want.

Laurie

As far as copying another vendor's stuff. I bought an item here a few months back. I paid for it and it is a good quality item and money well spent IMO. So I've been looking it over in my modeling program and sort of getting ideas of technique and stuff from it. The item is a nicely done helmet and I've been busy making my own copy of it from scratch. I haven't used a shred of the vendor's own work in my copy but have been more or less trying to mimick his creation as best I can. It's sort of good practice. When I get through with my copy I would like to put it out in the freebie section but I sort of feel that it wouldn't be right. I mean it's just a helmet, one piece out of the whole package I bought but I'm just afraid the vendor might feel slighted by my giving away a "replica" of his item.

So far I find the hardest part of modeling is creating and formatting textures. Man is it hard to get things to come out just the way I want. So far I've been keeping to simple items with simple textures. In fact my last couple helmets I've made don't even come with textures. I figure the biggest hurdle I have to creating something worth selling is getting textures down. There are other hurdles but textures seems like a big one to me right now.

If you feel that worried then create a freebie that supports an existing product.

If you modeled it exactly the same way to the point where someone could look at both models in wireframe and not be able to tell them apart - which is very unlikely, speaking as a pretty experienced modeler - then it could come back at you.  Otherwise, it's not like a model of a current military helmet is something the modeler could say they originated.  The designer of the actual helmet, maybe.  If you design your own stuff, this will never be a problem.

And the textures are actually the easy part...lol.

If you feel that your texturing is not up to the level that you'd want, do what others do (eventually) and team up with a texturer who does do good work with textures. Sure, you'd have to split the profits in some fashion, but that way each of you plays to your strengths and you get a better product in the end :o).

Laurie

Using other's models for teaching yourself is good, using them as references.  But I agree with pjz99, designing your own stuff is the way to do this.  Sharen

on the other hand, i'd say just keep working at it.  sure there are lots of things people haven't made, but a lot haven't been made because they're not typically something you'd use.  don't avoid making what you want to make because someone's done it before.  and we all learn from each others' work.  just don't make that your only reference.  always have the real thing as your primary reference. if you have a helmet based on that person's work, get images of helmets (or a real helmet, if you feel so inclined), and add your own improvements and changes.  apply what you've learned to your own vision. 

I'm currently using the Osprey "Men-at-arms" series of books for picture references of my subject matter. I don't think I could afford buying real objects to work off of, unfortunately. However, by looking at some stuff that has already been created on Rednerosity, and created well, I've figured out a little better how to do some things. 

I may post my "copy" of the prop, just because it seems a shame to me to devote so much energy in something and not share it in some fashion. I mean I haven't used a shred of material from the original. It is entirely my own work. I just used the original to get ideas on how to do some things. And it is a British helmet which is pretty basic, universal, head wear. Probably every military modeler and their brother has done a British helmet at some time.Although there seem to be relatively few posted on Renderosity.

Overall my approach to things is to make things I am interested in seeing in the market. I've done a lot of animating, making things for Civilization III which I'm interested in and have found that some things I want to use in my animating are just not available anywhere out there. So I want to make things that I personally would like to see on the market. So for instance my Fallschirmjager helmet and Italian Desert Helmet are things I don't see out there much. I think I've seen a good Fallschirmjager helmet on Turbosquid but it was horrendously expensive for one object. I've seen a few reasonably priced Falschirmjager helmets but I actually like the shape of mine better (except for the chin strap which I need to work more on).

Speaking of Turbosquid, it's been a bit since I checked out who's ripping off what.
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/maya-young-woman/504353 - pretty sure that's V4, aside from the general proportions of the torso and shape of the hips (dead giveaway) no way someone so amateur with lighting and rendering could model and rig something that complex
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/max-sexy-women-female/500849 - look, it's Grace Lion hair on V3, among a bunch of other ripoffs (several of this guy's listings are flat exports from Poser)

I'd poke around for some more but either TurboSquid's store just crapped out, or they just now IP banned me.

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-model-woman-body/449886 Posette makes a guest appearance!

and that's Sapphire Fox Hair on the first.  some people's shamelessness amazes me.

OMG...Posette...lol. That's her if I've ever seen her ;o).

And the hair did look awful familiar tho I have more trouble identifying V4. Since you're a modeler tho, I'll take your word for it...lol. You've certainly modeled enough clothing for her ;o).

And it is shameless. Why Turbosquat doesn't clamp down on these people is beyond me.

Laurie

There is some great stuff sold there, but frankly I think they're retarded to let all the obvious Poser content through, I'm sure it scares away buyers.  I PM'd 3Dream about his meshes being sold and mailed DAZ (I'm a rat, hate me).

Quote - ... tho I have more trouble identifying V4. Since you're a modeler tho, I'll take your word for it...lol. You've certainly modeled enough clothing for her ;o).

I am 100% certain that is V4, I've modeled a few dozen garments arount that wonky hip/thigh area ;)

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_2009_12_16__04_12_25/saludo.jpgdc9d9bf8-8705-4097-821c-03ad93f2bbf4Large.jpg

Then I would say that someone needs to let Daz know about it, so they can check it out ;)

yeah that's been done (quarker too).

For instance, to highlight my own latest helmet I used Michael 4 wearing a shirt from PoserWorld. The helmet takes up almost the entire pic but there is a little of the shirt you can see and of course Michael's head is in there.

Is it OK to use these things just in a preveiw picture of my own freebie? Or do I need to get permission from the other artists first?

Many thanks.

Pretty much all content allows use in renders unless there's a statement otherwise.  Depends on the license for each (see whatever specific readme).

Thanks!

Your helmet came out real nice.  Sharen

Quote - Your helmet came out real nice.  Sharen

Many thanks Sharen! I did a little more with the chin strap on this one and used the "intrude" function in Wings3D to create some thickness around the edge of the inside. pjz99 suggested I try giving a little thickness to my helmets. So I sort of compromised and intruded about half way up and then used a "hole" material for the rest of the inside. I'm trying to keep the poly count as low as I dare. This one is 1905 polygons. Not too bad compared to other helmets out there I think.