True enough,

That said, most of the V3 textures don't look as good now as they did when they first came out. Sure there were one or two good ones, some even were available here, but try finding them now!

As is, I'm sure there are enough talented artists out there that are willing to give Antonia some incredible textures that will be all her own. I would much prefer Antonia to stand on her own. The textures I've seen already are superb and I think we should place faith in the artists responsible. Antonia will look great when she's finished and I can't wait to see what emerges.

Still, that's just my opinion....

CHEERS!

I totally agree with Rogerbee1 above, plus I personally think that due to the technology and people's overall increased knowledge and ability, that V4 textures are better than V3 textures. So if Antonia were to be remapped to fit a different figure, V3 would be too much of a step into the past.
And I personally think it would be tragic to see people using V3 (or even V4 or any other) textures on Antonia. Antonia is hopefully going to be inspiring future creativity, not merging with the past.

Speaking of textures and remapping....
Olaf, since it's been a good while since the last modifications were made with the new UVs, is it about time I put out a link for the general public so anybody who wants to try making new textures for the final version can have at it?

Attached Link: Nicol Holiday Greetings

I'm still using the geometry switching thingy to test my textures with...sigh.

BTW: I posted an image with Toni in my gallery last night for Christmas greetings if anyone wants to view it.

Nice picture, Blue Echo. :-)

No, and I had forgotten about that, but the latest version, which is still only available through the Antonia Developer site, far as I know, still has the newer eye UVs. I've been kind of out of the loop for the past month since I've been really busy, but as far as I know, the up and coming "final" Antonia will be using the older eye maps as found in the current release version.

Why are you using geometry switching to test textures?

And speaking of eyes, whatever became of BB's Antonia eyes?

What became of them was that enough people told me I should be selling them, not giving them away, that I had second thoughts.

But really, am I ever going to sell anything? I had imagined I would, because I expected with the bad economy I'd not have full time consulting work, and a secondary Poser-related income stream would be a good idea. Instead, I'm overwhelmed with consulting work - I can't get it all done on time. I think I'll give away Antonia eyes and shaders, and potential lost income be damned. Creative Commons was founded by a childhood friend of mine (Professor Lawrence Lessig but I call him Larry) and so I should support that, right? Probably - Larry is way smarter than I am, so if he thinks its a good idea, I guess its a good idea.

The place where I kind of left it was bad, probably, because I didn't say anything.

I figured that since odf decided to decrease the eye size, I'd wait till he gave me the updated head before I posted the new eyes. But I didn't check to see if it had been posted. I haven't been on the Antonia site in a couple months. Where are we on the eye size?

Great work guys!

I did notice, however, from that Christmas render that the bending of her fingers needs work, but I'm sure that will be tackled before release.

I think the eyes look fine as they are now

Look forward to whatever is next

CHEERS!

Hi folks!

Sorry to make everyone wait, but I got a little tired of wrestling with CR2 files and shoveling data through half a dozen applications for any small change I make. So I decided I needed a break.

I'll post the latest version on the developers site after I get back from my holidays in mid-January. It will have the final "odf-approved" UV mapping, the corrected eye size, some new JCMs and a number of little improvements in the joint setups.

After that I'll give people who made textures for the new mapping some time to get them ready, so we can put the new release and the textures online at the same time. This will still not be the "final" version. We'll have at least one more round of corrections and additions before we are feature complete and can go into proper testing for the stable release.

By the way, I'm thinking the first stable release will still not have a complete set of expression morphs. I'll need a lot of time to do that properly, and there's no point in making people like PhilC wait until it's done. So I'll treat her expressions as an add-on, to be developed independently of the base figure.

bagginsbill: I'll give you a holler when the new head is online, so you can test your eyes with it.

odf, that sounds good.
I don't mind a bit of a wait at present.

I'm still a bit stressed and tired out from all the family happenings so the wait will give me time to rest too. :)

No worries guys!

I don't mind a few more test versions, Antonia so far makes others look like test versions! I think everyone will want a break after this week and New Year. So, you guys rest easy and pick up whenever you're ready.

I'm sure we'll have enough to keep us occupied in the meantime

CHEERS!

Quote - But really, am I ever going to sell anything? I had imagined I would, because I expected with the bad economy I'd not have full time consulting work, and a secondary Poser-related income stream would be a good idea. Instead, I'm overwhelmed with consulting work - I can't get it all done on time. I think I'll give away Antonia eyes and shaders, and potential lost income be damned. Creative Commons was founded by a childhood friend of mine (Professor Lawrence Lessig but I call him Larry) and so I should support that, right? Probably - Larry is way smarter than I am, so if he thinks its a good idea, I guess its a good idea.

That's very generous of you, BB.  Thanx! :biggrin:

I enjoy fooling around with computers, and fixing them for friends, and some have suggested I set up in business, but then it wouldn't be a hobby; it would be work...

Quote - ...I enjoy fooling around with computers, and fixing them for friends, and some have suggested I set up in business, but then it wouldn't be a hobby; it would be work...

Funny, my husband said the same thing when I suggested that...

Laurie

I have started just this morning on an AntoniaV3 remap.
dph

Good, because plan B was "politely conk David over the head and tie him up in the basement until he agrees to do a V3 remap" :P

Quote - Good, because plan B was "politely conk David over the head and tie him up in the basement until he agrees to do a V3 remap" :P

So that's why I woke up this morning with a stiff neck and a headache!  I'd thought that it had something to do with the way I'd slept all night scrunched up on my side.
dph

There'll be no torturing of David on my watch. If I see anyone conk people over the head, there will be serious consequences. Just so you know.

(Puts foot down.)

I guess that means I have to put away my 2x4. 

As many of you I was distracted by christmas. In other words: Leo and I made each other the present not to work and instead spend the whole days together with cooking, talking, movies and nice warm blankets. We so much do NOT enjoy christmas turning out to be a stressful time

I have enough other work to do and so I really do not mind if it takes a while to have the new version here, as more as good things take a while.

I hope you all had and have a nice and cosy holiday season, especially you, BlueEcho. I know that loosing a dear person is always hard - but when it happens during a time where everybody seems to have a big party it is even more painful (as far as this is possible...).

Wow, just got in on this thread.  INTERESTED.

Quote - Wow, just got in on this thread.  INTERESTED.

And the word spreads....

;o)

Laurie

Yes I too hope everybody had a safe and otherwise happy Holiday season, whether it was Christmas, Hanukkah, or even Festivus. ;-)
Personally, I'm just glad it's all over with. That whole month here in the US between Thanksgiving and Christmas is made far more hectic and complicated than it need be.

And I'm sorry to hear about your loss, BlueEcho. I never know what to say to things like that other than that you have my condolences.

Quote -
I guess that means I have to put away my 2x4. 

Laurie, you know you don't want to do that. You're gonna need it eventually, might as well keep it within reach. ;-)

Well, downloaded the current package and I think I'm in love!  These have got to be the best joints I've ever seen, coupled with the best body and face anyone's ever accomplished on an independant figure (or perhaps any period.)  Existing texture is fantastic.

The Boobs are difficult to work with and existing morphs are lacking at this point. 

Can someone sum-up the plan?  171 pages is a LOT to go through.

Quote -
Can someone sum-up the plan?  171 pages is a LOT to go through.

I think the idea is basically to end up with a good figure. ;-)
It would be pretty difficult to sum it up. Even just in the few months I've been following the development, a whole lot has changed from the currently publicly available version - joints, UVs, textures, morphs - are all different now in a pretty significant way. There are probably twenty pages of just eye design discussions and arguments in this thread... not to mention everything else.
Antonia IS a fabulous figure though, and Olaf did a superb job modeling her, and the fact that she comes in a low res version as well as hi res makes her even better for many reasons.

I think odf will be making the most recent version publicly available here real soon.
Otherwise, happy reading. ;-)

EDIT-
Oh by the way, there are a lot more morphs than are currently in the version at the Antonia link. I imagine that will all get worked out soon enough.

But the morphs at the Antonia link are injection, and only work on the Hi-rez version, not the Lo-rez version.  For remapping, I need identical morphs on the Lo-rez too.  (Need to be able to get her mouth open to check her teeth!)
dph

What do you use for UV mapping? UV Mapper? Can't you just select the teeth by material and isolate them that way?
I made the current UVs for Antonia (after v117, at least as of version 118, which I would assume is what v120 has). I used UVLayout Pro on the low res version and didn't need any morphs to get at the teeth, since with UVLayout you can just strip away geometry that's in the way and put it back together later. Not doubting you, just not understanding what you mean.

However, I made an open mouth morph for Antonia hi res, by rigging the mouth with joints in Lightwave and deforming it with the bones, as opposed to dragging points around. That morph is still on the dev site somewhere, I think. I could easily enough attach that rig to the low res version and make you an open mouth version for low res Antonia if you'd like.

Hmmm, now I'm reluctant to enjoy Antonia, knowing I've got an old cruster version.  I do understand she's in development, and of course await a 1.0 release. 

She will require a PoseMagic system immediately, and I could make some basic conforming clothes as soon as she's set in stone.

Hair conversion system, Genitalia (Beyond the existing morph, which was pretty good for starters) and jeez I just can't wait...she's going to be vastly superior to V4!

For what it's worth, I will give her my full endorsement.

Do I understand correctly that there's a certain amount of grassrooty "keep it free" thinking going on here?  Of course, people are going to make items and stuff for sale at some point, but the support won't come unless everyone's using her, and everyone won't unless there's incentive to jump over from their existing Daz behemoth. 

Quote - ...Do I understand correctly that there's a certain amount of grassrooty "keep it free" thinking going on here?  Of course, people are going to make items and stuff for sale at some point, but the support won't come unless everyone's using her, and everyone won't unless there's incentive to jump over from their existing Daz behemoth...

I think odf knows that the above will probably go both ways when/if she takes off (I predict "when" ;o)). There will be some of us who will try to keep everything free at the very least until she's popular, because Vicky - let's face it - is stiff competition, even if she's not as nice as Antonia IMVHO. I think that what Antonia fans would really like to see is loads of support, whether free or for sale because a figure that doesn't have that sinks quickly in the Poserverse. That is the only area where Vicky shines as far as I'm concerned - support. And even Vicky can be moderately clothed with nothing but free items if you know where to look ;o).

Actually, I think it would be a smart move to not release the alpha version until she's got a fair amount of support already. If folks see she's got everything necessary to render her right off the bat, then they may adopt her more quickly than if she were just one naked figure (although I'm sure that would have it's fans...lol). I'm talking clothes, hair, textures, poses, morphs, etc. There are a lot of people working on her currently and I'm sure she'll have a fair amount of that when she's ready for prime time ;o).

Laurie

No, the gist is that the model is free, and of course freebies are encouraged. But I think you'll find intentions to provide for-$$ products in this thread. But of course you wouldn't expect to see that sort of thing until a 1.0 release (which odf has indicated will likely occur in February).

I think I'm gonna try my hand at dynamic hair for her after Feb. That will hopefully give some more practice on V4 in the meantime.

Well, as soon as joints and morphs are in place, I'd love to do a PoseMagic for her.  In fact, I will need it myself!

I've no problem in remapping the teeth, tongue, & innermouth in UVMappper Pro, but if I want to see how the textures look on the actual model, then I need to load her into Poser and get her to open her mouth!
"Open wide, and say AH, Antonia!"
dph

Quote - But the morphs at the Antonia link are injection, and only work on the Hi-rez version, not the Lo-rez version.  For remapping, I need identical morphs on the Lo-rez too.  (Need to be able to get her mouth open to check her teeth!)
dph

Argh! You are right. I didn't think of that. Antonia has separate actors for the upper and lower "jaw" (just the teeth and gums, really) and the tongue, which will help you to some extend. But checking the inner mouth would be more tricky. I'm on vacation right now, but I see if I'll find some time later today to transfer the open mouth morph to the low-res mesh.

Have you tried to set the head's materials that you do not need to transparent? I always do this when I create textures for the inner mouth. Yes, it looks VERY scary when you only see eyes, teeth, tounge and gums but you are able to check for seams even below the tounge.

You know, while we wait for clothes, how about some second skins to keep us going in the meantime? A body suit or underwear would be enough. It'd be something to work with and preserve her modesty. Just a thought.

CHEERS!

Let me finish my remap, and you can use V3 2nd skins galore!
dph

The remaps do intrigue me, but, I want to see what she has all for herself first. I do like some V3 textures, in particular the Anna Marie Goddard one, but, I like stand alone figures to truly do that. Still, that's just my opinion. I'll be interested to see everything that comes out for her.

CHEERS!

Quote -
The remaps do intrigue me, but, I want to see what she has all for herself first. I do like some V3 textures, in particular the Anna Marie Goddard one, but, I like stand alone figures to truly do that. Still, that's just my opinion. I'll be interested to see everything that comes out for her.

CHEERS!

What's not stand-alonable about a remap?  My PosetteV3wG comes with a V3 texture included with the zip file.  That same V3 texture could easily be included with this figure too.  Plus, there are a VAST amount of FREE V3 texures out there.  Look over at ShareReg, and download some from there.
dph

I had all the free V3 textures when all I had was V3, they were good of their kind, but, the texture mapping and quality has improved exponentially over the years since she came out. Any new textures for Antonia will be far better than any V3 ones were. Technology moves forward all the time, so why take a step back?

People can of course do and use what they like, but I think Antonia is a new figure and so should make the best use of newer stuff.

CHEERS!

V3 textures are the Apex of Poser.  All that's come since is naught but a retrograde into chaos.
dph

I wouldn't say that, there are V4 textures that are amazing. Still, getting back to Antonia and she has V4 to compete with and the CP stable of figures as well. I can't really see her doing that with V3 textures. People want to move forwards. The Apex of Poser has yet to be reached as even that hasn't reached the definitive version. Poser 8 is getting there though, there are features in there that were once only in Poser Pro. In order to make the best of any advancement you have to move with it.

I can't wait to see what the guys come up with next year

CHEERS!

Feel encouraged, Rogerbee. I would have figured he was going to say Posette was the apex. :)

i think you're both right.  i have some great V4 textures.  still, i don't think they're actually better than my V3 textures.  most are not as good.  a few more come with specular and bump, but since all of the textures i have just use the base texture desaturated with a few tweaks for those, it's really easy to duplicate the improvement with shaders.

as far as i can see, texture making is the same as it ever was, and more seams in V4 has just meant more use of either 3d paint tools and merchant resources.  3d paint tools are great, but they encourage painting from photos, which means problematic textures with specular, bump, and SSS burned in.  they look great in really ambient lighting or lighting similar to the source photo, but not so much in directional and original lighting.  there's a reason just about every 3d texture tutorial i've found over at CG society advocates painting from scratch (and painting photoreal quality).

on the other hand, people have learned tons about shaders. understanding of both Poser and D|S materials has advanced.  that's independent of mapping, but i've also seen mapping tools and techniques advance.  while the textures may be of the same quality, mapping isn't.  personally, i can't really judge mapping quality.  from what i've watched in this thread, i'd say that consistent scale and lack of distortion are key aspects, at least as key as sensible seams.  so i think the mapping advances added to Antonia are pretty important. 

that said, i'm not sure i'll dare trying to make a texture for those mappings because of how difficult her seams are, and the huge scale variations in places that, imvho, need to have the same level and size of detail.  i've been studying photos a lot for a while, and have started teaching myself to make textures.  as far as i can tell, the most important aspect of skin mapping on a young woman's skin is bump and displacement, because most young people have a very even skin tone (outside of freckles).  it's mainly the bump that's everywhere  that provides the necessary detail.  that means detail level needs to be as consistent and comprehensive as possible, because skin always has some texture. i'd appreciate being able to work with the V3 mapping, myself. 

Quote - Feel encouraged, Rogerbee. I would have figured he was going to say Posette was the apex. :)

V3 is the Apex of texturing, Posette is the Apex of Figure creation.  PosetteV3 is the embodiment of both!
dph
Antonia is turning out to be a nice figure, but I do wish that she had a more curvaceous Posette like hip, with a visible hip bone.

Quote - [...but I do wish that she had a more curvaceous Posette like hip, with a visible hip bone.

The morph tool works really good for that ;o).

Laurie

Or, as a first approximation, you could just x-scale the abdomen actor to 85%, like I did in this image.

PS: Nice work, David! I'm impressed by how fast you can whip out those remapped figures.

That looks good!  Now if you could only create a morph to have her hip bone show more prominently, and her pelvic bone look a bit less sunken when compared to Posette's.

Looking good odf,

Are those some revisions I see there? She is looking great. I guess there is room for everything, those that want to use a remap can and those that want a new figure will be catered for too.

Keep it up

CHEERS!

What, those images of odf's? No, not a revision (thank God) - just a demonstration of what can be done with simple x-scaling on body parts.

Ah, right, looks good though!

CHEERS!

V4 is very hard to texture around the seams.

I liked V2 and Posette for ease of texturing on body but V3 head for texturing.

Once I got used to the map, I really liked Apollo. He textures great! :)

I think Antonia could well be the female equivalent of Apollo, in terms of her being her own character and being free. You got sooooo much with Apollo, let's hope we get just as much with Antonia.

CHEERS!