For some reason FS wants to rotate an imported head every time I try to use it.  You can sort of see where it tried to work, but it was working on a head which was effectively rotated on z by the software, for obscure reasons of its own.

I'll stick to morphing with magnets, methinks.  :laugh:

(Violence flag for the gruesome picture.)

*Once that's done, I will start some serious work on expression morphs and a decent face-rig. So her hands and feet will stay unfinished for a little while longer, but I think the face is more important.

I am a bit behind because of not feeling so well last week (this problem is solved) and the Olympics (this will stay unsolved until the end of the month).
Something about the decent face rig Antonia will get told me that you should not start this part of your work without knowing that at least I and two other fellow artists who tried out the recent Antonia release think that this is the first 3d-girl (or maybe the second after Miki) where you do not feel the immediate need to alter this lifeless doll-face after loading her into Poser. So whatever you want to refine: Please keep the natural woman-next-door appeal she has and seperate her from the standard clothes-hanger we are used to.*

@SaintFox: Sorry for the made-up jargon!

What I meant by "decent face rig" is that the jaws open when the mouth is opened, the lids follow the movements of the eyes and so on. Also, not just to have a collection of expression morphs, but also a (hopefully) user-friendly set of dials to control them. You will see what I mean when I do it.

What I did not mean is to change the default shape of the face in any way. Well, maybe one tiny thing that's been bugging me for a bit and that I'll tell you guys about if and when I actually manage to improve on it. :laugh:

Now you've made me curious!! :laugh: What may that be....

I am glad to hear that you do not change the default face!

Attached Link: "Glynis" for Antonia.

@lesbentley: Glynis looks really good. I like the concept of combining a scaling pose with a shaping morph.

I have a technical question or two regarding the "ghost" eye-cover actors we talked about: first, what's the minimum set of channels and properties such actors would need to serve as targets for injection? I'll do this with a script, so adding an unnecessary channel here and there won't kill me, but in the interest of readability, I'd like to keep it fairly reduced. Any advice on that?

Also, do you have an injection pose ready that I could test those ghost actors with? According to Murphy's law, anything that's added to the CR2 without testing is almost guaranteed to have some bug that will render it completely useless when it's actually needed. :laugh:

Error in Glynis zip.

Please note that there was an error in the original "Antonia-Glynis.zip" that will cause the scaling component of the pose not to be REMoved correctly. The error was fixed at 08:30 GMT. If you downloaded before that time, please download and install again. The good zip is Named "Antonia-Glynis_B.zip", if you have that file, you should be OK. Sorry for any inconvenience.

"Antonia-Glynis.zip" Temporarily Pulled for Maintenance.

GROAN

Much egg on face!   After fixing one error in the Glynis zip, I found I had made yet another error. I fixed the second error, but unfortunately the file is still not functioning correctly. I can see what is going wrong, but have no idea why it is going wrong. I shall seek a solution, but at the moment I am stumped!

Again, my apologies for any inconvenience.

 AHEM!  Antonia is STILL a WIP, so don't knock yourself out,Les. Fiddling with poser goofiness is something we're ALL used to.:laugh:  That is what Beta Testers are for.:lol:

Hi folks,

Ian:

Keep going with the shorts, maybe I was a tad unfair in putting Antonia into that pose. Still, I guess it was a fast route to showing the limits of what was there. Daz fully re-released their Basicwear for V4  to the paying public with more errors than yours. I was lucky in that I didn't have to pay for mine as I'd already got them with V4 Complete. I bugged them for months and got nowhere. It took them till the release of G4 for them to fix them.

At least you're putting yours out there at an early stage, are listening to people and taking things on board ready for another go. I wouldn't know where to start with making clothing from scratch.

Cage:

Sometimes it's the simpler things that work. I tend to find that out when I've done it the hard way!

CHEERS!

Quote - Cage:

Sometimes it's the simpler things that work. I tend to find that out when I've done it the hard way!

You mean with the shorts, right?  In that case, I think my success with JCM's is less that I kept it simple and more that I built them in a way that allowed me to "borrow" pretty much unchanged the successes of Antonia herself.  A teensy ant, is Cage, standing on the shoulders of a giant.  :lol:  I expect everyone's more complex efforts to surpass my simple one in every respect, once people develop workflows for dealing with Antonia's JCM's.  :woot:

But with, say, Face Shop versus magnet morphing, I'm finding that the simple (or at least automated) method gives me the Elephant Man, while the complicated, tedious method slowly moves toward my goal (within the limits of my skills).  

Should we announce dev site uploads in the thread?  I didn't realize that.    I added my two characters and the garment from which the Simple Shorts are derived, about a week ago, as a stealth upload.  :unsure:

@ lesbentley:

Your re-shaped body looks good!  Can't wait to test it.  :woot:

Hey LesBentley,

Glynis with her trimmer fitter and longer-legged shaping will be a  welcome addition to our flexible Antonia.  She will make a more likely dancer or model for one and a younger version of our girl. Looking forward to having her once your glitches are ironed out:)  Egg is good for the skin :)

It's so inspiring to see so much talent and generosity combined here.  Thank you all so much :)

Yeah, I was talking about the shorts, they seemed simpler in design to the others and they do work well, as they should with Antonia's bits built in.

Nice going anyway

CHEERS!

@lesbentley: I wrote a script for adding the "ghost" eye cover actors tonight and uploaded a file Antonia-122-lo-EyeCoverTest.cr2 made with it to antoniadevelopers. It loads into Poser okay and doesn't do anything weird as far as I can tell, but the real test obviously would be to actually inject something and see what happens.

If you get a chance to look at it in the next couple of days or so, I'll incorporate any necessary changes into the 0.9.122 release. Otherwise, it'll go in as is, and fixes will have to wait for one more version. No big deal, since I don't think there'll be those huge gaps between releases anymore.

Wow, a lot of things have been happening since I last checked in.
Not getting the E-bots again for some reason...sigh.

I'm busy on products for the different markets so I can generate a bit of cash flow.
Sure takes time to get textures right.

And I'm also trying to work more with BB's  shader system.
I'll check back again soon.

I think cash flow has led me to follow this a lot more closely than I otherwise might. Everything I want in order to move forward with V4 is getting more expensive, so, a figure as good, if not better, that's for free couldn't have come along at a better time.

CHEERS!

@odf,

I have just downloaded the Antonia-122-lo-EyeCoverTest.cr2. It's late now, but tomorrow I will try to set up the injection.

odf,

"LB BBEyes TEST-01.zip"

I have set up the injection for the BBEyes and uploaded a file "LB BBEyes TEST-01.zip" to antoniadevelopers. To get it working I had to make a small modification to your cr2. Namely I had to remove the weld statements for the eyes and eyecovers. I don't think this should cause any problems as there is no reason for the eyes to be welded, and as the covers were originally made as props these do not need to be welded either. The only foreseeable problem would be if at some future stage BB decided that the covers did need to be welded, but I feel that is highly unlikely. I am including a modified version of your cr2 with the appropriate welding removed "EyeCoverTest.cr2".

With that done, the injection seems to be working fine, though I have not had time for in-depth testing as yet.

I am having problems with the BB shader itself. The eyecovers render opaque black, as this also happens for me when I render the original eyecover prop, it does not seem that my injection is the cause of the problem. Perhaps this is a version thing, I am using P6, but BB's have a version number of P8, or perhaps there is some extra instruction I am supposed to be following that I have forgotten about. The shaderTree in the "LB BBeys TEST-01a.pz2" is identical to BB's original, except that the texture reference has been changed to "BE4Antonia-Eyes-Grey.jpg".

The eyes I have used for the INJ are BB's original mesh, scaled, rotated, and positioned to suit the new eye sockets. Because the BBEyes are more spherical than Antonia's, the front of the eyecover is slightly behind the position to the front of the cornea in the original Antonia eyes. As the geometry was originally made for the old eye sockets, the iris will appear too small in the scaled down version. In BB's geom the 'g' lines are not named, in my version I have added group names as per your cr2.

I have included two versions of the injection. "LB BBeys TEST-01a.pz2" is the main file, and injects both the geometry and the shader. "LB BBeys TEST-01b.pz2" injects the geometry only. The files should work on both the Lo and Hi versions (providing the appropriate welds are removed). Note that the eyecovers will be in Outline Display Style when loaded.

One final point. The only material in the BBEye geom is "usemtl Eye" this is different from Antonia who has different usemtl for each eye and for each part of the eye. This may have implications for for those who make textures, and for existing MAT files. I have not really thought it through, but perhaps the materials should be regrouped to suit existing MAT files. One should then be able to load the geom and BB shader, leaving the texture reference out, and any textures that had already been applied would persist, but with the BB shader.

I will do more testing and inform you of any interesting results.

Cheers,
Les.

odf, Two things to consider with the cr2 for the BBEyes. These things are not directly related to injecting the eyes, but apply even it they are built into the cr2. One; if an eye is scaled, the cover will remain the same size, this will also happen if the HeadGrow dial is used. It may be a good idea to change the scale channels in the eyes to 'propagatingScale' (as used in the BODY) so that the cover will scale up when the eye is scaled. Two; when trying to select an eye with the cursor, it is inevitable that sometimes the EyeCover will be selected instead of the eye. To overcome this problem it may be a good idea to hide (this is not the same as "Visible" ('off')) the EyeCover actor, as this will prevent it from being selected via the cursor.

actor rEyeCover:1
        { 
        name RightEyeCover
        on 
        bend 1
        dynamicsLock 0
        <span style="color:rgb(0,255,0);">hidden 1</span>

Another consequence of hiding an actor is that it will not show up in the 'Body Parts' drop-down menu. However it will still be selectable via the Hierarchy Editor, and be amenable to pose files.

Quote - Amy,

Before anything let me say I have made exactly one clothing item to date ( as immediately above )which includes JCM, so I'm still learning, and may well have things mixed up.....

I think -60 is a good choice if you are doing a JCM for Antonia's Kick movement. This is because at that angle the morph will be set, by the JCM mechanism, at a value of 1 if you use the same ratio as odf used for Antonia's JCM's there ( 0.016667  which is 1/60th).

I made my JCM morphs, firtly by using 'Morphing Clothes' application to transfer Antonia's JCM's into my conforming shorts, but as a dial up morph without JCM at that point. This was a partial solution, and I then used Posers morph tools to fix up the morph which the shorts were conformed to Antonia, with her leg bent. I then deleted Antonia from the scene, leaving me with a pair of shorts which still had the combined morphs ( Xferred from Antonia, plus custom from the morph tool) I then exported the affected groups from the shorts as morph targets ( to combine the morphs into one ). and use this as the target for my shorts JCM for that movement.

I had to do this for each JCM I wanted. If your clothing has more than one group then you need to export each affected part, for each JCM morph you create.  eg if you have hip2 and lThigh involved in left kick, then both of these parts need a left Kick JCM morph.

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian,

I've found an issue with my method of making JCM, I haven't take the "vertex weight map" into account.  I noticed that in the CR2 file, there is a line "calcWeights" for the twist, joint, and smoothScale.  What's that?  How Poser calculate the weights?

Regards,
Amy

lesbentley: Many thanks for testing the eye cover injection! I'll try out your suggestions and see how it works. We can worry about the materials when BB provides a finalized version of his eyes.

Quote - @les

I am having problems with the BB shader itself. The eyecovers render opaque black, as this also happens for me when I render the original eyecover prop, it does not seem that my injection is the cause of the problem. Perhaps this is a version thing, I am using P6, but BB's have a version number of P8, or perhaps there is some extra instruction I am supposed to be following that I have forgotten about.

You're far more an poser expert than I, and if this is stupid excuse me, but do you have ray tracing on and enough bounces to cover?

(edited to add) and some thing to reflect?

Hi people!

I'm finally done with the new Poser Pro 2010 Library GUI!!!!! I've been ignoring this thread because of that work, but now I'm free at last!

GeneralNutt said what I was going to say - you need to enable raytracing - the eye covers are refractive, not transparent.

LOL... I was just browsing this forum (yea, I finally had a little time to do things for myself rather then for others)... and spotted your problem quote, then was about to respond and thought I should read further to see if they found the problem.

Yes, I did save my scene in DS2 and reopened it in DS3.  Not even knowing she had this problem in DS3 (didn't find out till just now). 

Still reading further to see any updates.  I'm still on page 187, mind you :)  Just wanted to confirm this one ;)

BTW here's a render I never did get a chance to upload... done in DS3, worked on lights for about 2 hours to get it perfect hehe.

...wolfie

Poser calculates the weights using spherical (or capsule-shaped, in P8+) falloff zones.  It doesn't use vertex weight mapping like many other 3D applications.  The interaction of an inner sphere and an outer sphere (more are possible with P8+) determines how much influence a vertex receives from the joint.

If you load a figure, select a body part, and open the Joint Editor in Poser, you can observe or adjust Poser's joints.  In the attached image, the falloff zones are shown as wireframe outlines.

The JCM's are morphs which adjust or compensate for the deformation applied by Poser's joints.

The .cr2 listings for twist and joint contain the settings for the falloff spheres and bend angles or twist deformers of the joint.

There's probably no need to be concerned with any of this when making JCM's, unless you want to adjust Antonia's joint setup.

(Nudity for naked wiremesh.)

Quote - Hi people!

Choir - Hi bagginsbill!

lesbentley: Okidoki, I set 'hidden' to 1 in the eye covers, made the eye scales propagating, and removed the 'weld' instructions for both the eyes and the covers. Everything seems to work really nicely, so I'll just transfer the deltas for the improved 'toecaps gone' morph tomorrow and then I can put version 0.9.122 online.

By the way, I just love modifying CR2 files via scripts. I can keep changing the script and testing the results until everything works, and then I run it over all my production CR2s once I'm satisfied.

O:T: : You are rushing streight foreward onto the 200 pages mark. and I am still reading and learning and waiting for every Antonia update.You all did great work.

odf,

I have found one slightly negative consequence of injecting the BBEyes. After the injection, the hidden PBMCC_## dials in the eyes are now visible. This is an undesirable, but perhaps not all that serious bug. I will see if I can find a solution.

Wolfie:

Nice render, with that pose Ian's or Cage's shorts would've preserved her modesty!

CHEERS!

odf,

It was easy enough to solve the problem with the PBMCC_## dials mentioned in my last post. I just added instructions to the injection to hide those dials. This still leaves the problem that any hidden custom morph dials added before the injection took place would be revealed, but we are just going to have to live with that. No big deal IMO.

I have uploaded the new injection "LB BBeys TEST-02a.pz2" to antoniadevelopers. Note that it requires prior installation of LB BBEyes TEST-01.zip (for the obj files).

Hi bagginsbill,

Good to see you back. I took some liberties with your BBEye, whilst trying to find a more convenient way to get it onto Antonia. As this was only posted to the developers site, I hoped you would not mind.

Quote - you need to enable raytracing

 
Doh!

Thanks GeneralNutt and bagginsbill.

I'm at work so can't play with this yet, but sounds like you're doing what I wanted but didn't know how - single click to apply the eyes. Cool. Feel free to include the OBJ files and shaders with your version.

I took a quick look at my eye generator, and it looks like I was using about 30 mm for eye diameter and 14 mm for iris diameter, because of the incorrect overall scale. Assuming a correct eye size of 23.5 mm, the iris should be 13 mm. I can re-build the eye to these dimensions, or any other dimensions.

What is the desired diameter of the sclera now with the new Antonia?

Quote - What is the desired diameter of the sclera now with the new Antonia?

Whilst odf is the best one to answer that, at a good approximation the sclera in the 121 (Hi Res) figure is 0.010027 Poser Units from top to bottom. P6 represents this as 26.284885 mm.

I have to travel now, but I'll try uploading this soon.

I can't remember how I packaged it. Do you just want the two OBJ files and the shaders and you assemble it all yourself?

I also have a new shader almost ready that changes the iris color.

I also have another OBJ file with a dilation morph for the iris.

The first two show the pupil dilation morph at -.5 and .5.

The third, dilation is 0 (neutral) and the iris has been colorized to blue.  I'm not done with the colorizing technique. Right now it is just one hue, but I want to be able to adjust two hues so you can have those little fibers be a different color.

bagginsbill,

Quote - I can't remember how I packaged it. Do you just want the two OBJ files and the shaders and you assemble it all yourself?

From my point of view, for purpose of making a geom injection, the OBJ files and the shaders would be fine.

Quote - Wolfie:

Nice render, with that pose Ian's or Cage's shorts would've preserved her modesty!

CHEERS!

OMG, you said my DAZ STUDIO render actually looks good? lol.

Yea, this render was done before any shorts were done, I didn't even know about them till last night.  Thanks Rogerbee!

...wolfie

That's ok,

Darth J did a great render of her in a dress in the Daz forum, the dress looks great on her but I don't know which one it is.

CHEERS!

bagginsbill,

Don't know if you plan to make one centered eye, or a left and right. I case it is the latter, you will want to know the origins (joint centers) of the eyes.

Left

    origin 0.0133967 0.6538385 0.0184297

Right

    origin -0.0133967 0.6538385 0.0184297

The above read as x, y, z, respectively. Note that the eyes should be orientated to point outwards towards the side of the head by 5 degrees, so the left is  5.0°, and the right -5.0° on the y axis.

*I also have a new shader almost ready that changes the iris color.

*That's neat! *:*tt1: I'll have to browse my stock photos to find some photos with eyes that have an interesting structure...

Wonderful, I have a lot of eye texture stock too. :)

It fits Kozaburo's "Short Hair Evo_Jessi.hr2" To the Antonia figure by means of a PMD morph injection. Kozaburo's "Short Hair Evo_Jessi.hr2" Shipped with P6, and is probably available in later versions as legacy content.

Quote -
The JCM's are morphs which adjust or compensate for the deformation applied by Poser's joints.

The .cr2 listings for twist and joint contain the settings for the falloff spheres and bend angles or twist deformers of the joint.

There's probably no need to be concerned with any of this when making JCM's, unless you want to adjust Antonia's joint setup.

Cage, thank you!  I made progress on my conforming clothing for Antonia.  I noticed that your conforming shorts is using a mesh similar to Antonia, mine is not.  Is there any mathematical method to calculate the deltas for the JCM?  Doing it by trial-and-error takes a lot of time.

Quote -
Cage, thank you!  I made progress on my conforming clothing for Antonia.  I noticed that your conforming shorts is using a mesh similar to Antonia, mine is not.  Is there any mathematical method to calculate the deltas for the JCM?  Doing it by trial-and-error takes a lot of time.

I've just gone back and checked your post about your process.  (Copied below.)

Quote -
Making JCM

1. Pose the figure with conforming clothing at a pose, for example, Left Thigh Kick at 30.
2. Export the part(s) of figure that may be covered by the part of the conforming clothing as OBJ.  It will be used as a reference.
3. Export the part corresponding to the bone of the conforming clothing to be morphed, for example, hip2, as OBJ.
4. Import the OBJs into a 3D modeling software, in my case, it is Blender.
5. Modify the part of the conforming clothing to be morphed.
6. Export the modified part as OBJ.
7. Extract the "v" lines from the original OBJ and the modified OBJ of the part morphed.  Convert it to CSV file.
8. Import the CSV to spreadsheet.  So that sheet1 contains the original values, sheet2 contains the corresponding modified values.
9. Setup sheet3 to contains the deltas.
   Example:
   d 0        =Morph.A1-Base.A1 =Morph.B1-Base.B1 =Morph.C1-Base.C1
   d =b1+1    =Morph.A2-Base.A2 =Morph.B2-Base.B2 =Morph.C2-Base.C2
10. Export the sheet that contains the deltas to CSV.
11. Use the information Cage provided in Antonia-121_thighERC.txt to create the morph channel.
12. Edit the deltas CSV to make it into the deltas section.

It looks like you want to calculate the deltas between your exported object and your modified object.  I don't see any problem with your process, but it may be more complex than is necessary.  I think a more common approach for deriving the deltas is to import the object you exported back into Poser, then load as a morph target the modified version you exported from Blender.  If you save this to your props library, you can just copy over the deltas in the prop's morphs to your .cr2.  Poser can do all of the math for you.

I'm not sure why you wanted to have the joint vertex weights, earlier.  How does that fit into your process?  I believe those could actually be obtained using PoserPython, now that I think about it, but I'm not sure what else to say about that unless I know what you're trying to do.

Also, I think I should verify that by "deltas", in your recent post, you're referring to morph deltas.  Is that what you need, the morph deltas?  If so and you've created your modified .obj in Blender, there shouldn't be any need for a trial-and-error approach.  You can simply import the original .obj and load the other as a morph, as noted above.

Once you have the deltas, the proper ERC settings for the JCM should be in the file I provided, the link for which was contained in the outline of your process.

Can you clarify what you need right now?  Has any of my response been helpful?  My apologies if I've misunderstood anything. 

BTW, your attached image doesn't seem to be loading properly.  :unsure:

coughcough

Err, don't let me interrupt you or anything. It's just that apparently there's a new version of Antonia (0.9.122 this time) up at the usual place. Get it while it's buggy, or something.

Thanks odf,

I'll see what I can do shortly!

CHEERS!

OOOOH!  A new virgin- can't wait to get my hands on her... :woot:

 A new ,untouched virgin of Antonia? I want to put my hands on that! :laugh: LOLOLOLOLOL:lol:

Damn, WandW! That was pretty funny!