I was just reading this message by William The Bloody about Poser crashing while rendering. A lot of people seem to have this problem (including myself). I can render maybe 4 or 5 images (if I'm lucky), and then Poser just freezes. And I was just wondering if all of us crash victims are using more RAM than Windows can handle? I'm not sure, but I think my problems started when I put in an extra stick of 256Mb, and my total RAM came up to 640Mb. And I know that the limit for Windows (98/98SE/ME) is 512Mb. Just a thought...

I wish it were that simple. I crash all the time, yet only have 256Mb of RAM. I think it's just another bug that needs to be fixed.

Using two sticks of 256 high performance Miskin. Win 98se. I do not beleive it is a memory problem. I generally do not have Poser freeze while rendering. Seems to happen to me when I am working in Poser to long. For example setting up a scene or making something conform. esc does not work nor does c/a/d. I have to reset my puter. Normally I get no error message. I wish I could isolate it but I can not. Ron

my experience is, that i have the problem when the textures are to big ( daz-hires,asia texture by steffy) and if i add the updo-hair by daz.I tried with 256 mb ram, 380 mb ram but that doesnt solve the problem.my solution is:first i reduce the textures a bit i a paintprogramm and let poser create new bumpmaps.second I made matposefiles where the bumpmaps for the body are not loaded.you only see the difference in very close ups and you save alot memory( 40mb) oh, Im running win98

Hmmm... and I was almost sure about that RAM thing. But than what? Is it only a specific version of Poser? Does the Pro Pack lock up as well, or is it just version 4.0.3? Or are the lock-ups caused by the large textures we are using now. I do get the lock-ups when I'm working with the Noa texture (3000x3000?). And that is about the only texture I am working with these days. Still trying to find a reason why...

It is definitely a Poser BUG. Each time you render, Poser reserves additional memory from Windows OS - when you are done rendering and saved the image, Poser does NOT properly release all the space that the rendering occuppied - with the next render it requests MORE space etc. - slowly your remaining memory erodes until your computer crashes. To avoid this simply save your work and close Poser periodically to allow Windows to clean up the mess, then re-launch Poser and continue. Photoshop (mostly earlier versions) does the same thing, and so do some other programs. The problem is NOT how much RAM you have because no matter how much you have, sooner or later it will all get eaten up by these programs if you run long sessions without saving and reloading.

I have the latest version of Poser4 with all patches that have been released. Also have the propack but not the latest patch. Both hang my puter. Seems to happen more frequently with Poser4. It happens whether or not I have a texture. It can be a very simple prop I made and it happens. What I do is to save a pz3 file after every major step of my work. Ron

But often the reloaded file will refuse to render too. How long does it take Windows to clean up the files?

the best thing is to save and reboot totally. Even using MaxMemory software doesn't fix the render bug.

ronstuff is right on. After saving the pz3 file I shut Poser down and restart it. Ron

So we can eliminate quite a few things here: a) It's not a particular version of Poser. b) It doesn't really matter how much RAM there is in your system. c) The size of the texture doesn't matter (I'm still not to shure about that one, but OK...) And furthermore: I am running MemTurbo, and I can see Poser returning almost every Mb of RAM to the OS after it has finished rendering, so: d) It's also not a question of Windows running low on system resources. OK, it's a bug in Poser. :-(

running maxmem I can see windows running down to about 3% (in the red) of system memory, which on my system is 384 megs. I have noticed that it is more likely to happen after I apply either a pose or a bump map (especially if it had to convert the bump map.) I think the pose throws it out of whack because it saves undo information but I'm not sure. -WTB

Well, texture size does matter in a sense, because the amount of memory "reserved" with each render is larger, so you run out faster with progressive renders. However the point is that even with small textures - everyone will sooner-or-later hit the limit if the memory is not restored properly. And yes, sometimes even closing Poser does not release the memory, if you have gone past some unknown point-of-no-return and Poser has actually overwritten some of its own code in its quest for more memory, thus prohibiting a clean shut-down.

A few days ago I saw Poser eat up about 400 megs when I did a close-up with the Noa tex and a bumb map. But after the render, Poser returned everything to the OS. The second render I tried just froze, and Poser had only used about 140 megs at that moment. I just don't like having to save those pz3 files, just because Poser is about to freeze. And then having to quit Poser and restarting it, just so it can freeze again after 2 or 3 renders.

The technical details on how this actually works would fill a small book... Obviously I have oversimplified the problem and taken liberties with the details - its not just rendering that reserves memory - its every new action, but the fundamental principle is valid. Not to blame the Poser people entirely, I have to say that Microsoft has made proper memory allocation quite cumbersome and tedious for programmers, so its no wonder that this happens.

I had the same problems with Win98SE & Voluptuous Vicki or the Noa Tex. Duron 800, 768 megs of ram. Memturbo would show about 300-400 megs drop during the first render (without any other props besides hair) & would return all after use. When attempting a second, the render progress bar would pop up & then poser would stop. All other programs would work. C+A+DEL would kill poser but I would have to reboot to get another render. Fix: Installed Win2K Pro (as much as I hated to). Set up a perm 800 meg Swap file with a limit of 1500 megs, Dirext X 8.0a for 2K, latest vid drivers & latest VIA MB drivers (Abit KT7-A MB). Boom, problem fixed. Do this with a multi-boot config if you play games. install games under Win9X & install graphics & office apps under Win2K. Just like Win NT 4.0, 2K allocates memory much better than win9X & has a much higher limit. Also, since the kernal has it's own, private memory address range, there are less memory issues.

Attached Link: http://flashcardsonline.tripod.com/pinstall.html

Are any of you running Windows 2000, or is the problem isolated to the Win9X and WinME crowd? As MoonShade stated Win2K will probably fix most of these problems. The Win9X family really stinks at memory useage and releasing memory, Win2K is extremely more reliable and stable. I work as a computer tech, and every office I go into has problems with large programs and Win9X, almost always these problems go away when we switch to Win2K. These are mostly CAD Engineering situations, but the principle should be the same.

Memturbo will help manage memory, but I found that it did not correct the issue even when I used the deep scrub option & I have 768 megs of ram. Win2K and a big paging file were the final fix.

Hi, I'm running win 2000 Pro and the problems get worse. Poser randomly locks up on me with simple operations like moving the morph wheels. It seems to happen compleetly randomly, but only when I have high res textures loaded in. It even makes my morphs disapear in one figure if I import another with a diferant large texture. System. AMD Athlon 1200 MHZ, 1536Meg of Ram, Win 2000 Pro with all sevice packes installed and Fire GL Video Card. I find it funny that my system worked beter (And Faster) with less ram and Win 98. -Gabe-

Hi Gabe, Looks to me like you are having more serious problems then most of us do. For most people Poser freezes when they try to render a hi-rez scene. You could try to pose/morph your figure and apply the textures only at the last minute before you try to render... Or you could skip rendering in Poser all together and export your figure to an other program like Bryce. (BTW... 1536Megs...? :-)

Alter8 ya, I know it's alot of ram, three 512 meg sticks, but I use every bit of it with 3DS Max. One thing I do know is that if you reduce the graphics apoture (I should know how to spell that after all I am a photographer...)but anyway, it does stableise the program a bit, but only a bit. The problems are all win 2K based and mostly because win 2K doesn't like AGP cards. Leave it to microsoft to put the word Profecional at the end of an operating system that doesn't accept anything that has become industry standard right... Their tech support even went to the point of telling me that I should buy a slower "Pentium" based system and swich to a non "Open GL" video card like a riva TNT. I was pritty T'd off, and that was 4 Months ago. (Most of the issues are still a problem) -Gabe-

Gabe, Why don't you simply create a multiboot for Win2K/ME? From what I understand, ME gave you less problems with Poser, so try making your scene under ME, and then export it all to Max. But you DO have a weird problem. Most people have a more stable Poser with Win2K then with 98/ME. I take it that you run Max without any problems with Win2K? And what aperture size do you use for your AGP card? (I have it set to 128Mb and I have no problems at all. (Just a GeForce with 98SE))

I had one originaly for 98 and 2000, but win 2k ate 98, as in 98 nolonger loaded up. Not even in safe mode. But part of that from what I'm to understand is caused by the amount of ram in the system. Yuo can set it using msconfig, but the part of msconfig that regesteres the ram alication doesn't load up until most of the rest of 98 does. It locks up before that. -Gabe-

He Gabe, Yes, you're right: only Win2K is designed to handle such large amounts of RAM. That's one of the 'drawbacks' of RAM becoming so cheap... we can buy al lot of it. :-) So basically you're stuck with 2K. So... back to basics. I take it you've tried to reinstall Poser already? Then: have you already tried making your pose with non-textured figures, and apply the texture only at the very last minute? I would really like to know if that makes any difference.

Hi, Ok That's the only way that I get it to work at all, then save after every step. my main consern is getting max working again because then I can render in it, and avoid the problem entierly. Oh ya I have even reformated and reinstalled everything because of all the problems with 2k. -Gabe-

He, I'm glad something works for you. It isn't the most elegant solution for working with Poser, but at least you have a temporary workaround. I do the same thing: I pose in Poser, and I don't even render anymore; I just export as an .obj and do the rendering in Bryce. I hope Max won't be giving you to much trouble.

The trouble with max is also Win 2K based. Win 2K doesn't like either open GL or AGP cards at all for that mater. and the hidy driver isn't too eficiant with the way 2000 handels memory. I just wish MS would release a product that worked the way it's suposed to. -Gabe-

Well, maybe in a few months time Win XP will solve all our problems... Have you ever considered taking out one of the RAM modules, and run your system with 'only' one Gig? I think 98/98SE/ME CAN handle that amount of memory and it sure knows how to deal with AGP/openGL cards. I know you probably want to keep all the RAM, but that seems to be the main problem at this moment. Maybe try it until Win XP becomes available? You would at least be able te run a decent OS on what is still a 'killer machine'. I'm using a system with only 640Mb, and it does everything I want it to do, without any memory problems. I know it's a big step, but just think it over...

I also found that between the hardware set up and the windows set up the "sleep" mode of the computer system set up may conflict with windows. This caused me to have freezes which did not resolve with anything but reset of the computer. this happened when the computer was left idle in any program...had to turn the windows control off and all was resolved. I still have the not enough memory if I try to render several images in poser so that is an independent issue. Just adding this other to the list of potential problems, not related to the poser program. Pro pack does not freeze per say on my machine it just cannot render larger images.

Lorraine: I'll give that a try, I never thought about that and the MS people never mentioned it to me. I have also avoided getting the propack because I wanted to resolve all of the problems before creating potencial new ones, so it good to know it won't make it worse with win 2K. Thanks -gabe-