Quote - (Lightwave Poser Fusion Plug In to come in the future)

They said not til Lightwave CORE is released.  I think that Collada will likely be the bridge.

Quote - Silke: I am running both. I get the same message with both only when the library first starts up. I have not found any adverse effects from what ever it is, but it worries me that something may be wrong.  LOL. I will contact SM and see what they tell me the problem is, just hate to bother them with problems that are likely my fault.

You're firewall has erroneously been configured to not allow Poser or the Library GUI (or both) to use the communications facilities. These happen to be shared with the Internet access, but they are not the same. However, most people who get this error had the firewall set to deny Poser access to the TCP stack.

I can't explain this too well over and over. Is there a readme in the package? It must have explained this. We went through the same question a bazillion times with Poser 8.

I explained it two days ago in another thread.

Just search for the word "appConfig" in this forum - I'm sure you'll find the other threads.

Thanks bagginsbill, first error I've ever had with P8 or Pro 2010, everything works fine though. I figured it was probably something I had set up wrong.

It is supposed to be a free upgrade??? I thought it was only the amount it would cost over and above Poser 8. If it was supposed to be free I just got ripped off because I bought the physical shipment just now. Anyone know?

Ok just called Smith Micro and it is not a free upgrade, if you bought Poser 8 they take that amount off the price of 2010, which is what I thought it was. Now to wait for them to ship it. Probably take 2 weeks from what she just told me for them to ship it out and another week for me to get it so start posting renders and bugs...lol

I was expecting an increase in speed with the 64bit pro2010, but sadly it renders at the same speed as Poser8 (32bit), so i can either guess that the 64bit pro2010 doesnt work well on my i7 or it just doesnt give you extra render speed

Quote - I was expecting an increase in speed with the 64bit pro2010, but sadly it renders at the same speed as Poser8 (32bit), so i can either guess that the 64bit pro2010 doesnt work well on my i7 or it just doesnt give you extra render speed

Compared to Poser Pro, Poser Pro 2010 is faster throughout the performance envelope.

Compared to P8, Poser Pro 2010 is about equal (perhaps slightly slower due to extra features like gamma correction) within the limitation of about a three and a half Gb render load;  beyond that, P8 will slow and drop to its knees, while Poser Pro 2010 will just keep on runnin'.

So, any render project which draws, say,  5Gb or 10Gb is Poser Pro 2010's realm - P8 can't do it.

Have several dolls in the scene?  Using a model set with a couple hundred Kpolys, sophisticated material node effects, IDl, etc with high quality render settings?  Running P8 out of memory with all of this?  Then it's time to switch to Poser Pro 2010 and [begin evil galactic emperor voice]"Now, witness the power of this fully-operational 64bit render engine!"[/evil galactic emperor voice]

Calling BB

Is there any way to Dock the Library with Win 64bit??

Not anything major, I am getting used to Alt+ Tab, but a bit old fashioned with my Poser Gui Look. I always left the PP2010 Beta Library Docked

Thanks

Poser Pro 2010 library rocks !

Shaderworks Runtime Builder works fine with Poser Pro 2010, and the external library auto-refreshes !!!

COOL

Ordered the upgrade. $50 too good to pass up, since I own both Poser Pro and Poser 8.  It will probably take a good three weeks to get here. I'll breathe deeply and try to be patient......

can someone try to render out two spheres like in this example?

one can be a normal material the other a mirror material. but dont use lights but bagginsbill's envsphere.  so the lighting should be only from IDL.use default IDL settings.

thanks.

What would be the purpose of this little experiment?

Well here it is.  The color on the red ball is pure red (255,0,0) and the reflection is set at 0.8 on the mirror ball.  Environment sphere has the EnvGradient applied.  Default render settings at Final with IDL (default) and GC at 2,2.

Quote - What would be the purpose of this little experiment?

do you see the red ball shadows in the mirror ball ?

they look horrible.

this is what i wanted to see. so if you want normal, not best or perfect but just normal shadows you need to use perfect IDL settings.

this is not good IMO.

Quote - > Quote - What would be the purpose of this little experiment?

do you see the red ball shadows in the mirror ball ?

they look horrible.

this is what i wanted to see. so if you want normal, not best or perfect but just normal shadows you need to use perfect IDL settings.

this is not good IMO.

Well technically we can't see any shadows since there is no light in the scene but I see your point.

the mirror needs to pick up everything around him.
shadows are not only from lights. if we have an ensphere and IDL then we are lighting the scene and get soft shadows.

its like if you use IDL dont use reflections. its all raytraceeeeeeeeeeeed. this is 2010 and not 1995 anymore. if poser is not able to have reflections and IDL together for a 2 minute render with two primitive spheres then they need to stop with Poser.

its an insult that i see the same problems in PP 2010 from Poser 8 that i noticed in november. that is almost 5 months later. insulting.

ice-boy - I take it you've reported the issue to SM(?)

This is related to the shadow and light-leak artifacts we've been getting with near and intersecting surfaces, I'm sure. You can see it in the ordinary shadowing under the red sphere. I'm guessing it's proving more difficult to resolve. Not knowing anything about coding a 3d app I can't say whether we should be expecting more from the engineers at SM or not.

i remember that someone reported it in 2009.

but even if i didnt ,someone from the SM team would had to notice it . i bet someone used IDL with mirror materials.

maybe i am overreacting hehe he. ;)

Ice-boy, you know what they say about ASSUME.

what do you mean assume?

Make an ASS of U and ME.  Life lesson, never assume.  Either you get your information from the best authority or you initiate the effort on your own; that way there is no doubt about whether it was done or not.

well it was not fixed since we see it in the render.

but i know that they knew.

I'll report it again when I get a chance tomorrow.

Don't bother. It's already in the system. It's not easy to fix.

i am reading something about auxiliary  render date. is this like rendering in passes for photoshop,gimp,... ?

bagginsbill did you test this out? is it good? how much control do you have? can you make a z-depth pass? or an AO pass?  or maybe an specular,diffuse pass?

Quote - i am reading something about auxiliary  render date. is this like rendering in passes for photoshop,gimp,... ?

bagginsbill did you test this out? is it good? how much control do you have? can you make a z-depth pass? or an AO pass?  or maybe an specular,diffuse pass?

I tested it - it works. I don't know what you mean by how much control you have. How much control do you need on a given pass? Note it does them all at once.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3606696&ebot_calc_page#message_3606696

Quote - i am reading something about auxiliary  render date. is this like rendering in passes for photoshop,gimp,... ?

bagginsbill did you test this out? is it good? how much control do you have? can you make a z-depth pass? or an AO pass?  or maybe an specular,diffuse pass?

I think the auxiliary render data is one of best features of PPro2010.  There are five data channels you can check which are, Normal, Toon ID, Z Depth, Position and Texture Coordinates.   There are also 3 Custom channels that can be linked to the base node in the material room.   If you leave those nodes empty they will render out Diffuse, Specularity and Shadow.

The list looks like this:
Normal
Toon ID
Z Depth
Position
Texture Coordinates
Custom 1 (Diffuse)
Custom 2 (Specularity)
Custom 3 (Shadow)

You can render it out to a layered PSD or if you render out to TIFF it will render each channel to a separate image.  I use the Z Depth a lot and it works great as you can finally use advanced camera controls like fstop.

Vestmann .. have any examples you can show of what you can do with it? (before and after compositing?) Would be really cool to see!

Quote - Vestmann .. have any examples you can show of what you can do with it? (before and after compositing?) Would be really cool to see!

I´ll post something in a little moment (I´m working on a little experiment with VSS ;).  Do you have PPRO2010?

Indeed I do 8-)  I played with the feature while doing the documentation and I think it's pretty slick. But I would love to see what others do with it too!

Ok here's the test I did.  I used VSS to channel the Skin material to Custom 1.  This gave me a render that I could load into an alpha channel to mask it out.  I then used a Z Depth render with DOF Pro and changed the color of the image without changing the skin color.  What do you think?

Quote - > Quote - i am reading something about auxiliary  render date. is this like rendering in passes for photoshop,gimp,... ?

bagginsbill did you test this out? is it good? how much control do you have? can you make a z-depth pass? or an AO pass?  or maybe an specular,diffuse pass?

I tested it - it works**. I don't know what you mean by how much control you have.** How much control do you need on a given pass? Note it does them all at once.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3606696&ebot_calc_page#message_3606696

i meant if you can do some custom passes.

and i see that you can do custom passes. this looks fantaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastic.

but i need to ask a very important question. i was reading some forums months ago and some people complained that the passes were not rendered linear. so the passes were not gamma corrected. my question now is. the Z-pass ca nnot be gamma corrected becasue its depth information. but what about the diffuse,specular passes? are they gamma corrected?

i dont understand what the bottom 2 does passes do . can someone explain?
-Position
-Texture Coordinates

thanks

Quote - (Click for full size)

Ok here's the test I did.  I used VSS to channel the Skin material to Custom 1.  This gave me a render that I could load into an alpha channel to mask it out.  I then used a Z Depth render with DOF Pro and changed the color of the image without changing the skin color.  What do you think?

sorry for asking this but i dont understand what you did here.

you created two VSS skin materials ? the first oen goes in the diffuese alternate like BB did. then you copy/paste the nodes and connected them in Custom 1?

you also said that you connected this in the alpha channel to mask it out? so you can choose what materials to change in photoshop?

thanks.

I haven't tested the GC on the layers, so I don't know which way it goes with render GC.

If I were to choose what I think it should do, I'd say that render GC should not be performed on the output of any passes at all. Here's why:

Note: I'm going to talk about grayscale color values (simple numbers) because it's just just easier than doing tuples of RGB in my description. You should understand that I'm actually talking about a single color channel, but that the math applies to all three in parallel.

Suppose the linear diffuse value is .25 and the linear specular value is also .25. The final value with the two added together is .5. When I composite the two layers via addition, I should get .5 (linear). The final gamma-corrected color should be .5 ** (1/2.2) = approximately .73. In my post-work composition, I'd simply add the two layers and then apply GC.

But if each pass is gamma corrected separately, the result of diffuse is about .53 and so is the specular. Adding these together I get 1.06 - totally wrong.

In order to use gamma corrected passes in post-work composition, I'd have to anti-GC each pass first to recover the linear values, add them together, and then GC the sum. While it is possible to do that, it is annoying. The compositing of layers must happen in linear color space. Only the FINAL pixel values of the composite should be gamma corrected.

If somebody was complaining that GC was not applied to the separate passes, it wasn't because they know what they're doing.

On they other hand, if they were complaining that anti-GC was not being performed on the input data to the passes, then they were making a valid complaint.

Quote - (Click for full size)

Ok here's the test I did.  I used VSS to channel the Skin material to Custom 1.  This gave me a render that I could load into an alpha channel to mask it out.  I then used a Z Depth render with DOF Pro and changed the color of the image without changing the skin color.  What do you think?

Very slick!

There's another way you can single out the skin material as well, just as a FYI. You can go through all of the various skin materials in the character and assign them to the same Toon ID.  Now in my experimentation with Toon ID I found that the greater the distance between the numbers, the greater the distance there will be in the colors used to represent the different toon IDs.

So, let's say you have a character, and the clothing in the scene and you want to separate them from the background.

Assign all of the materials in the skin to Toon ID 100000

Assign all of the materials in the clothing to Toon ID 200000

When you choose your auxilary render info, make sure that Toon ID is selected. The layer will be called ID in Photoshop.

Here's a screenshot of the material settings I used for Template Skin in VSS along with the rendered output files.  If you render to PSD you would get these in layers but I like to render out to TIFF so I get each pass in a separate image file.  I just copied the custom 1 file to a new alpha channel in the original render.

The cool thing about the custom channels is that I could have loaded the clothing and props into it as well to have the whole character on a separate layer.

Quote - > Quote - (Click for full size)

Ok here's the test I did.  I used VSS to channel the Skin material to Custom 1.  This gave me a render that I could load into an alpha channel to mask it out.  I then used a Z Depth render with DOF Pro and changed the color of the image without changing the skin color.  What do you think?

Very slick!

There's another way you can single out the skin material as well, just as a FYI. You can go through all of the various skin materials in the character and assign them to the same Toon ID.  Now in my experimentation with Toon ID I found that the greater the distance between the numbers, the greater the distance there will be in the colors used to represent the different toon IDs.

So, let's say you have a character, and the clothing in the scene and you want to separate them from the background.

Assign all of the materials in the skin to Toon ID 100000

Assign all of the materials in the clothing to Toon ID 200000

When you choose your auxilary render info, make sure that Toon ID is selected. The layer will be called ID in Photoshop.

Ahh that is a clever little tip.  Thanks.   Does it render out to a single ID layer or is there a layer for each ID?

Quote - I haven't tested the GC on the layers, so I don't know which way it goes with render GC.

If I were to choose what I think it should do, I'd say that render GC should not be performed on the output of any passes at all. Here's why:

Note: I'm going to talk about grayscale color values (simple numbers) because it's just just easier than doing tuples of RGB in my description. You should understand that I'm actually talking about a single color channel, but that the math applies to all three in parallel.

Suppose the linear diffuse value is .25 and the linear specular value is also .25. The final value with the two added together is .5. When I composite the two layers via addition, I should get .5 (linear). The final gamma-corrected color should be .5 ** (1/2.2) = approximately .73. In my post-work composition, I'd simply add the two layers and then apply GC.

But if each pass is gamma corrected separately, the result of diffuse is about .53 and so is the specular. Adding these together I get 1.06 - totally wrong.

In order to use gamma corrected passes in post-work composition, I'd have to anti-GC each pass first to recover the linear values, add them together, and then GC the sum. While it is possible to do that, it is annoying. The compositing of layers must happen in linear color space. Only the FINAL pixel values of the composite should be gamma corrected.

If somebody was complaining that GC was not applied to the separate passes, it wasn't because they know what they're doing.

On they other hand, if they were complaining that anti-GC was not being performed on the input data to the passes, then they were making a valid complaint.

i think the guy was complaining that since the diffuse pass was not GC that its useless to him since hes whole render was 2.2 .

Yeah there is a single ID layer ... which is why you want to create stark color variations between the different toon ID's. 

I tried to predict the colors used for the toon ID colors, even going as far as to enter something like 255255255 to see if it created a white area, but that didn't pan out.  Maybe stewer can pop in and offer a clue. LOL

I think the Toon ID has the potential of being the most powerful of the lot.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - (Click for full size)

Ok here's the test I did.  I used VSS to channel the Skin material to Custom 1.  This gave me a render that I could load into an alpha channel to mask it out.  I then used a Z Depth render with DOF Pro and changed the color of the image without changing the skin color.  What do you think?

sorry for asking this but i dont understand what you did here.

you created two VSS skin materials ? the first oen goes in the diffuese alternate like BB did. then you copy/paste the nodes and connected them in Custom 1?

you also said that you connected this in the alpha channel to mask it out? so you can choose what materials to change in photoshop?

thanks.

Here's a screenshot of the material settings I used for Template Skin in VSS along with the rendered output files.  If you render to PSD you would get these in layers but I like to render out to TIFF so I get each pass in a separate image file.  I just copied the custom 1 file to a new alpha channel in the original render.

The cool thing about the custom channels is that I could have loaded the clothing and props into it as well to have the whole character on a separate layer.

holly s...... this. looks fantaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastic. i want this ..............now

Quote -
but i need to ask a very important question. i was reading some forums months ago and some people complained that the passes were not rendered linear. so the passes were not gamma corrected.

Upon reading this more carefully, I confess I can't figure out what the complaint was.

You said, in the same sentence, "not rendered linear" and "not gamma corrected".

That's a contradiction. A render is either linear or gamma corrected. It can't be both, and it can't not be both. Unless we're talking about something completely different that is neither linear nor gamma corrected, but just wrong.

I tried to do a test with a pre-release PPro2010 but the results had artifacts. I am installing the final software now. I'll be back.

Quote - > Quote -

but i need to ask a very important question. i was reading some forums months ago and some people complained that the passes were not rendered linear. so the passes were not gamma corrected.

Upon reading this more carefully, I confess I can't figure out what the complaint was.

You said, in the same sentence, "not rendered linear" and "not gamma corrected".

That's a contradiction. A render is either linear or gamma corrected. It can't be both, and it can't not be both. Unless we're talking about something completely different that is neither linear nor gamma corrected, but just wrong.

my mistake. i confused something with the world linear. it was meant GC. its all good i see that you have full control what passes to make.

could we make a reflection pass with the edge blend?

OK with the shipped software I get good results. The passes are not gamma corrected. This is good.

ice-boy - guess what I found? The reflection data is included in the specular pass!

i only understand the ID,z-depth and custom pass.

but i dont understand what the position,normal and texture coordinates do. i googled it for 3dsmax and i found nothing. i never read about that kind of passes used on movies.

This is the full render layer (the normal render).