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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Oct 22 4:45 pm)



Subject: A TY2 / V3 remap question for DPH


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 6:30 AM · edited Wed, 23 October 2024 at 12:35 AM

Okay, I'm a bit slow, so please bear with me.

I've found your TY2/V3 remaps on my Linux downloads folder - oooooFF! - and have installed them (already had TY2 installed). I've rte-decoded my main TeraiYuki2.obj - that transpired successfully.

Then - okay, here's where things get a bit grey - I loaded the default TY2 cr2 (not the Terai Yuki2 V3 cr2... mistake no 1??) and loaded a V3 Mat file... that was okay to do, right? So, now when I look at material zones in mat room adv, I see all of V3 material zones and the original TY2 mat zones underneath them.
Are the TY2 mat zones okay to remove (via PFE, which makes the process completely painless)? or did I stuff up somewhere along the line?

BTW, you did a spectacular job with those remaps: she looks stunning, David. Going to send V4 on holidays for a bit and play with Terai for a while.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


lmckenzie ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 7:35 AM

"I loaded the default TY2 cr2 (not the Terai Yuki2 V3 cr2... mistake no 1??

Most likely  you need to use the remapped cr2. The additive materials effect you describe does occur if you load a MAT file on the wrong .cr2.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 8:08 AM

But removing the original TY2 material fields shouldn't cause any problems, right?

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


lmckenzie ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 12:18 PM

I'm a bit confused as to why you would need to remove them from the original cr2 - unless you saved it with the redundant materials and need to recover it. In that case you could probably remove them, though to be 100% safe, I'd probably just install her to a temp folder and grab the original.

If this is like Dave's Posette V3 and other remaps I've used, the Terai Yuki2 V3 cr2 is pointing to an entirely different .obj that was probably extracted from an encoded .rte or ,pcf (Mover) file. Use the remapped .cr2 for V3 maps and the original for TY2 maps - they are independent. Hopefully DPH will be along shortly with any corrections or contradictions.  He'll get you sorted out.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


NanetteTredoux ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 2:07 PM · edited Sat, 01 May 2010 at 2:08 PM

Robynsveil, from my experience with the remapped Posette, I think you should load the Terai Yuki V3 Cr2 and not the default one. I made the same mistake the first time I tried to use it. I am not sure whether this remapped Terai Yuki can take mat poses or whether you need to apply the textures in the material room. Did the textures "take" - appear on the figure? If they didn't appear I think you need to go to the material room. I apply the Posette and Dork textures manually and then save the materials to the library for future use, so I only need to go through the exercise once. DPH has to use different material zones to the original figures for copyright reasons.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch


lmckenzie ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 6:00 PM

*"I think you need to go to the material room" *

Good point. I was going by the remaps like those by April YSH' and Pitklad that retain the material names and take standard Vicky MAT poses - apparently David's don't. He suggests renaming them in the .obj file to get around that. Today's the Sabbath so he may be by this evening his time.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 6:57 PM

Quote - ...Did the textures "take" - appear on the figure?....

Actually, they did... the figure did change colour when I loaded 3D-Celebrity's Mandy MATs... and in the mat room, the ImageMap node references for the top set of body areas are all for those MAT files. Then, there is a list of body areas under that where the ImageMap node references are all to the original TY2 body areas.
You know how when let's say you have V4 selected but you are trying to load a dress MAT file from a pz2... and how the material zones are just added to V4 without warning. At least in the mat room, it warns you - I really wish it did in the pose room too, which would save me having to bring the file up in PFE to clean that up. I suspect that is what happened in this case: just added the material zones, but since the OBJ file has been remapped, her skin suddenly had colour, where before she'd just been grey.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


dphoadley ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 11:29 PM

My remaps of PosetteV3wG (in Freestuff), Terai Yuki2 V3, Vicky4V3, Vicky2V3, & Michael4M3, will all take their respective Mat Poses.  There was a time when I didn't bother to rename the Mat zones, as Mat Poses were something completely foreign to me (I'd always used Posette).  At the time when I 1st remapped Posette, there was a very big stink among V3 users that I was using a remapped Posette to undermine V3 support and lure people back to Posette, so I decided then to not push my luck by renaming the Mat zones.
However, since those days, tempers have cooled, and all subsequent remaps are now Mat posable.
If there are any problems with my remaps, send me an email to: dphoadley2@yahoo.com and I will endeavor to help.
Yours truly,
David P. Hoadley 

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


dphoadley ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 11:43 PM

Quote - > Quote - ...Did the textures "take" - appear on the figure?....

Actually, they did... the figure did change colour when I loaded 3D-Celebrity's Mandy MATs... and in the mat room, the ImageMap node references for the top set of body areas are all for those MAT files. Then, there is a list of body areas under that where the ImageMap node references are all to the original TY2 body areas.
You know how when let's say you have V4 selected but you are trying to load a dress MAT file from a pz2... and how the material zones are just added to V4 without warning. At least in the mat room, it warns you - I really wish it did in the pose room too, which would save me having to bring the file up in PFE to clean that up. I suspect that is what happened in this case: just added the material zones, but since the OBJ file has been remapped, her skin suddenly had colour, where before she'd just been grey.

That's because the Cr2 you used has the old TY2 mat zone nomenclature embedded in the file, while the the Terai Yuki 2V3 has the Mat zones renamed according to V3 nomenclature.  The old TY2 mat zones probably appear at the bottom of the list under the word Preview.  That is what happens when the Mat zone in the object file is renamed, but that the previous name for the mat zone is not removed from the Cr2.  You have several options:

  1. Simply ignore it, as attaching texture nodes to these old mat zone names will not effect any change at all in your figure in the Pose Room, or-
  2. You can edit them out of the Cr2 using the free utility Cr2 Editor, or a text editor for that matter.
  3. Use the Cr2 that came with the remapped figure (I think that I may have removed the old Mat Zone nomenclature, but I can't remember now).
  4. Send me an email to dphoadley2@yahoo.com, and I'll endeavor to send you back an edited and cleaned up Cr2.
    Yours truly,
    David P. Hoadley

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sat, 01 May 2010 at 11:58 PM

It's no dramas, David... I have PFE, and so it's a fairly trivial fix. I just wanted to be certain that the old TY2 material zones weren't essential for anything. I'll just take them out, and thanks for your answer.

You are a wizard at this!! I can't believe how this extends TY2... and with my shader (nothing as awesome as BB's but still pretty cool) I should be able to breathe new life into this gorgeous girl!

I'll be getting some of your other re-maps soon...  thanks again, sir... I highly respect you and your work!
Robyn

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


dphoadley ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 12:07 AM · edited Sun, 02 May 2010 at 12:10 AM

Quote - It's no dramas, David... I have PFE, and so it's a fairly trivial fix. I just wanted to be certain that the old TY2 material zones weren't essential for anything. I'll just take them out, and thanks for your answer.

You are a wizard at this!! I can't believe how this extends TY2... and with my shader (nothing as awesome as BB's but still pretty cool) I should be able to breathe new life into this gorgeous girl!

I'll be getting some of your other re-maps soon...  thanks again, sir... I highly respect you and your work!
Robyn

Of all the non-Posette figures that I've remapped, I think that I like Terai Yuki 2V3 the best.  She has a VERY cute face, and with certain textures, doesn't seem at all anime.

I like your image of the ballerina pirouetting on the water.  Sometime explain to me what you did with the lights more so I can understand it better.  We each seem to have our own individual strengths, mine seem to be in remapping (for me, it has the challenge of a jig-saw puzzle).
Yours truly,
David P. Hoadley

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


NanetteTredoux ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 12:23 AM

Yay for the re-mapped figures. I am very tempted to get Terai Yuki re-mapped. I must check her poly-count. Most V3 textures are very good and I have literally hundreds.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 12:34 AM

Can't seem to find any good resource kits (good = reasonably-priced) for V3 anymore - I would have thought there were thousands... been googling so long my eyes have turned into goggles. Any ideas??

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


dphoadley ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 1:29 AM

Attached Link: V3 Skin

Would any of these help?  Also look at Shareg for the Skarra & Lisha Free texture.  I remember also a Free Viet Cong Texture and character for V3 by Panko. dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


NanetteTredoux ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 2:32 AM

I collected my textures recently, so they must still be around. Many on ShareCG. Remember the Aiko 3 textures also fit, and some Hiro 3 textures are also suitable - many of them don't look masculine at all if you put them on a girl. I found several full character sets for V3 in freestuff here on Rendo. Try Bice's site also, nice freestuff there. Several good links to freestuff for V3 in the Freepozitory at Daz.  Also try www.Mysticfantasies.com. Check out Digitaldesignsunlimited. I found some free textures there and also bought some at very good prices.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 2:40 AM

Actually, I was looking more for a resource kit than finished textures... but thanks for the links, David.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 3:22 AM

Thank you Nanette: MysticFantasies provided exactly what I was after. Thanks again, both of you. This is opening an entirely new area in Poser. Can't wait to get the shader done and rendering....

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 5:50 AM

Okay, here's hoping David is still following this thread. I'm creating transmapped eyebrows: has that material (V3's Eyebrows) been accounted for in TY2/V3? IOW, how would I go about using transmapped brows?
Cheers,
Robyn

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


dphoadley ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 6:09 AM

Quote - Okay, here's hoping David is still following this thread. I'm creating transmapped eyebrows: has that material (V3's Eyebrows) been accounted for in TY2/V3? IOW, how would I go about using transmapped brows?
Cheers,
Robyn

If the MAT zone for Transmapped eyebrows occurs in the original figure, i.e. Terai Yuki2, then I remapped them for V3 Trans Mats along with everything else.  If not, then you will have to make do with eyebrows photographed into the V3 SkinHead Texture.  Frankly, I cant remember right now if the Smith Micro Terai Yuki comes with transmapped eyebrows or not.  If not, then you can transfer the transmapped eyebrow prop included in PosetteV3 over to Terai Yuki 2V3 and use those.  You may have to work at adjusting them to Terai's head, but they are at least remapped for V3 trans maps.
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


lmckenzie ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 6:17 AM

Thanks for the explanation Davis. I must have the old version of PosetteV3 (ca. 2007) as she does not take MATS. I'll get the current one.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


dphoadley ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 6:35 AM

file_452151.jpg

[** PosetteV3wG (PosetteV3 with Genitals)**](http://rapidshare.com/files/158468677/PosetteV3wg.zip) is the one that is MAT posable, not PosetteV3.

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 8:23 AM · edited Sun, 02 May 2010 at 8:24 AM

You are a champion, sir... thank you!

Here is Mieko enjoying a day at the coast... be happy to share that water shader and other stuff I've learned about lights from the EVer so patient KobaltKween... she is a treasure!

[

](http://www.tightbytes.com/Poser/CobaltDream/Mieko001.jpg)
=====Click for full-size=====

Yes. I realise TY2 is heavier than she looks, judging  by how her feet are sinking into the stone, but hey, don't tell me, tell David - he remapped her! :lol:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


dphoadley ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 8:41 AM · edited Sun, 02 May 2010 at 8:50 AM

file_452155.jpg

> Quote - Yes. I realise TY2 is heavier than she looks, judging  by how her feet are sinking into the stone, but hey, don't tell me, tell David - he remapped her! ![](../../mod/forumpro//art/emoticons/lol.gif)

I'd say that it's not that she's so heavy, as that she'd worn those clothes for so long that they're now just too small, and the shoes are worn out at the soles!  Just look at that skimpy dress! -she's probably worn that same dress since she was twelve!!! :lol:
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 9:01 AM

Yep - had a google of everything TY2 - there just *isn't that much! Time to start a revival!

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


stimuli ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 9:35 PM

I'm sorry I have a dumb question.

What exactly is going on in this thread with TY2?

I'm a huge TY2 fan and if this thread has something to do with more stuff being available for her I would love a link or two.

I think Im just too sleepy to comprehend what you're actually talking about in this thread at the moment =(


dphoadley ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 9:48 PM

Quote - I'm sorry I have a dumb question.

What exactly is going on in this thread with TY2?

I'm a huge TY2 fan and if this thread has something to do with more stuff being available for her I would love a link or two.

I think Im just too sleepy to comprehend what you're actually talking about in this thread at the moment =(

It's about my remapped version of TY2.  I've recently remapped TY2 so as to take V3 Mat Textures without need to convert them in a texture converter.  This means that all of your, and everybody else's old V3 textures can now be used with TY2.
Hope that that clarifies the issue.
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 10:39 PM

And I've created a skin shader that uses V3 base textures and builds on them (nothing as nice as BagginsBill's, but it has its uses). I'll be tweaking that shader a bit more to let a bit more of the skin show and perhaps make it a bit lighter, too. We are now sorting out material zones: David very generously gave me a eyebrows zone that I can apply to TY2 so we can have transmapped brows like V3 does.

The skin shader was kind-of started in this thread. BagginsBill is pretty much the most important teacher we have in terms of creating accurate materials in the material room that will stand the test of time. I know, hard to tell I'm a groupie.

I've recently defected from V4 to try other characters. TY2 caught my eye because I'm doing image bases for card-makers, and her over-all look really fits what I'm looking for. She is GORGEOUS.

Do get some sleep - looking forward to talking more about her when you get up. :biggrin:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


stimuli ( ) posted Sun, 02 May 2010 at 10:56 PM

Ah I clicked the link in your sig, dphoadley.

So is this product something that would change the TY2 in my runtime or is it like a seperate figure?
And since it can use V3 maps does that mean it can use Aiko 3 maps too? that would be awesome!


dphoadley ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 12:10 AM

It's a separate figure.  It has to be to have the UV configuration to accommodate both V3 texture maps and V3 Mat poses.  The base mesh is still that of TY2, but the way it's UV's spread out on a flat surface to configure with Skin Texture jpg's is very different from standard TY2.  Also the MAT zones have been renamed to comply with the Mat Zone nomenclature of the V3 Mat Pose files.
Hope this explains something.
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


stimuli ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 1:19 PM

couple questions about this figure:

  1. any V3 unimesh textures should work on this figure then right? So like the A3 Kirei textures for instance?

  2. since the base mesh is still the same then all of TY2's current morph packs would still work for this figure, right? (such as NGM and Ultimate body morphs)

  3. all of TY2's current clothing and hair props and figures will still work with this figure correct?


dphoadley ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 1:46 PM
  1. Correct!
  2. Correct!
  3. Correct except for the TY2 Bikini!  That requires a different base figure, one who's mesh is such as to simulate the folds of skin created by the bikini straps.  As its use seems to me of a limited nature, i.e. only for beach scenes, I haven't remapped yet.  The Bikini figure has more polygons in the abdomen and  chest to simulate the bikini strap indentations, and so remapping it would require me to do the whole figure all over again, something I've been reluctant to do. So, since it's use does appear to me of a limited nature, I just haven't bothered up to now.  If there should be a demand in the future, I'll reconsider this position.
    dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


stimuli ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 2:05 PM

awesome!

Im clickin yer link and buying your TY2V3 figure now =)

this is gonna be sweet =)


NanetteTredoux ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 2:42 PM

Robynsveil, she looks really amazing in that image!

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch


stimuli ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 3:42 PM

ummm....

crap.

gotta decode stuff =(

Im sorry but I cannot find this "TeraiYuki2V3.obj" as described in your readme to be used as the decoding key =(

ran a search and no .obj by that name is anywhere on my comp =(

does this mean the TeraiYuki 2.rsr?


dphoadley ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 4:00 PM

Typo mistake: That should read to use the original  TeraiYuki2.obj as the decode key.  This is what happens when you upload a product after working on it for hours.
dph

dphoadley2@yahoo.com
Welcome to Terai Yuki2V3.  TeraiYuki2V3 is a UV remap of the TeraiYuki2.obj file so that Terai Yuki 2 will be MAT posable with Victoria 3 skin textures.  This expands exponentially the uses to which Terai Yuki 2 can be put.  She can continue to be used as an Anime Character, or with a few good morphs, she can be used in the Mainstream of Poser Figures.  Terai Yuki 2 is easy to pose and render, and is a joy to work with!

WARNING:    In order to use this figure, you must first own the Official Terai Yuki 2 figure.  The TeraiYuki2V3.obj is RTE encoded to the regular TeraiYuki2.obj, and can be found here after unzipping the download zip file: The TeraiYuki2V3.rte is located here: RuntimeGeometriesTeraiYuki 2TY2remap

USAGE:        Unzip the zip file into your Poser Runtime.  Then power up the RTE encoder, and decode the the TeraiYuki2V3.rte using the TeraiYuki2.obj as the Decode Key.  Open Poser, and load figure in Poser.

The default TeraiYuki2.obj is the keyfile for decoding the TeraiYuki2V3 object file.

The Zip file contains the following:

Geometries: TeraiYuki2V3.rte                    RuntimeGeometriesTeraiYuki 2TY2remap
character:     TeraiYuki2V3.cr2                          RuntimelibrariescharacterTeraiYuki 2
              TeraiYuki2V3.png

This product is Liscensed for both Comercial and Non-Comercial use.

Any questions, then contact me: dphoadley2@yahoo.com

Enjoy!
David P. Hoadley

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


RobynsVeil ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 4:34 PM

Thank you, Nanette.

TY2 is a very nice figure - just playing with some face morphs. I'm hoping that Corvas might see fit to do his armpits fix to her as well, but since she is such a waif, perhaps it's not quite as noticeable as- say - on V4 or V3.

I'm going to dial down the shader too - it's obliterating the underlying texture a bit too much. It's nothing as nice as BB's PR3 shader though (which comes with VSS).

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks


stimuli ( ) posted Mon, 03 May 2010 at 6:52 PM

woot! got her workin! =)

Im glad you guys made this thread. now I have a new toy! =)))


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