Quote - Amy, I notice that in the updated version, the collars of the beach volleyball top won't morph using Daz Studio morph follower, while in the older versions they did. This renders any brest or body morphs useless (at least for me!) I noticed this using the Age 19 PMDs.
Thought I'd point this out, though I don't know why it would occur- maybe there needs to be some blank channels for those body parts?

The new version does not contain collar bones.  Therefore, it will not take any morph for the collar.  I would like to suggest that you use D-Former in DAZ Studio or Magnet in Poser to fix the problem.

If you stand Antonia next to V4, you can see that V4 has an unusually long torso.
Her abdomen is long compared to Antonia.
Antonia has a more normal scale and this is why she is also easier to pose.

I decided to pay attention to the females in my family and see how they compare.
My daughter, like me, is more like Antonia with a shorter torso.
My oldest grand -daughter has a long abdomen, long arms and legs like V4 but she is extremely slender.

The G2 females,except Jessie, also have shorter torsos.

I haven't checked any of the other Daz females against Antonia.

Antonia does indeed have rather long legs by default. I think she'd make a fine runner or runway model. For a more average figure, it's a good idea to reduce the y-scale a bit on the thighs and shins.

I think the average ratio of torso to leg length is probably somewhere in the middle between Antonia and virtual amy_aimei, but maybe a bit closer to the latter.

Generally speaking, I seem to recall that adult women tend to have shorter legs in relation to their body height than adult men or teenage girls.

Meanwhile, back on the github, I've fixed some problems with the inclusion/exclusion spheres for the big toe that were caused by the foot reshaping and that I hadn't caught in time for the release. I've also added a morph for toe spreading, as demonstrated in the attached render. Next, I'll do the toe curl and try to bring the extensor tendons out when the toes are bent upward.

Also for release 0.9.125, I'm planning to make JCMs for the neck turn and bend and add some empty channels for the expression morphs that I'm going to make later. But the major achievement of that release will be the finalization of the body rig, which means that I will finally be able to give PhilC the green light for starting on WW support.

I will get round to her!

CHEERS!

Quote - If you stand Antonia next to V4, you can see that V4 has an unusually long torso.
Her abdomen is long compared to Antonia.
Antonia has a more normal scale and this is why she is also easier to pose.

This is the result!  V4, virtual amy_aimei, Antonia, and V3.  Now, I think Victoria is too slim, or looks too slim.

Quote - Antonia does indeed have rather long legs by default. I think she'd make a fine runner or runway model. For a more average figure, it's a good idea to reduce the y-scale a bit on the thighs and shins.

I think the average ratio of torso to leg length is probably somewhere in the middle between Antonia and virtual amy_aimei, but maybe a bit closer to the latter.

Generally speaking, I seem to recall that adult women tend to have shorter legs in relation to their body height than adult men or teenage girls.

In fact, I have found the proportions are vary depend on the ethnic group and the generation.  I considered to be tall as a Southeast Asian born in the 80's because I have longer torso comparing to my peers but more Southeast Asians born in the 90's are at my height because they have longer legs.  My conclusion is the generation born in the 90's are taller because, in general, they have longer legs than the one born in the 80's.

BTW, virtual amy_aimei is based on many scaling changes I made to V4 and with a custom morph.  Too bad, every clothing need to be morphed to fit.  It is not practical!  I would like to know when Antonia will be stable for morphing.

Amy, looking at the difference between Antonia and digital Amy, the hip is what makes Antonia look like her legs are longer.
Antonia is built more like my younger sister, more leg, less hip and digital Amy is more like me, more hip and less leg...lol.
Antonia's shins are longer too like my sister, mine are short.
Digital Amy has longer arms than Antonia though.

With V4 I usually scale down the abdomen when posing arms above her head and it works.
With Antonia there is no need to do that.

OK got Diamond her own threads so I don't half to OT

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2803863&page=1#message_3656803

http://www.gimptalk.com/forum/bloodstone-mageʹs-diamond-t49249.html

Just playing around with a rose tattoo for Antonia. Don't tell me, I know! The colours are much brighter than a real tattoo would be, I've got to fix that, but this is just the first test render.

Good poses though and the hair works well, Koz Long Evo isn't it!?

CHEERS!

Quote - Koz Long Evo isn't it!?

Yes that's right, it's the Jessi version that shipped with P6. I converted it for Antonia. Not sure I can share it though, as it's a cr2 at the moment, and attempts to come up with a pz2 hair fit version have failed so far.

The poses are from a new set I'm working on, and will probably be released as "TGP Poses 03" on  ** Antonia's Free Site**, and at sharecg, some time in the next few weeks.

jules53757 has a converter for hair figures in the free stuff here. It's for adjusting V3 hair to Antonia and seems to work quite nicely, although it takes quite a few steps to do the complete conversion.

I can retro fit Jessi's to Antonia, I got quite good at working with Koz hair.

CHEERS!

On the scaling issue: I am doing a series of side-by-side images of Antonia and pictures of real people on a plane at Z=0.0.
I find for the examples I used so far, mainly standing poses, that I had to reduce the length of the shin to get a matching pose. Out-of-the-box her knees seem a bit far up her legs.

The reference poses I used are not stock, so I can not show them here. Sorry about that. Will search some suitable stock material to illustrate my point.
Leg length/body length ratio of course varies from person to person in the first place, and above that it depends on ethnicity and age. What ethnicity and age Antonia represents I do not know, but for the comparison I used typical West-European females of say 20-30 years.

This is in no way intended as criticism. The leg aspect length ratio issue accounted for, I think Antonia is the figure giving me the best and most natural results I have had.

Yes the shin length to thigh length ratio does look a little high in Antonia, to my eye. It's often the other way round, it looks too low in many figures.

Yep, I'm taking full responsibility for that shin length thing. I actually changed the thigh/shin ratio to what it is now when I noticed that when Antonia's legs were bent at the knees, her shins looked too short. This seems to be a common problem. Due to limitation in the rigging system, actor origins are in practice not always placed at their natural and realistic pivot points, which leads to inconsistencies in the relative proportions of body parts.

You have to remember that Antonia was rigged pre-P8 and with the original intention to make her bend as realistically as possible even without JCMs. If I made a new figure from scratch now, I'd probably do more detailed research on human proportions, try to place actor origins as close as possible to their natural pivots and use P8's advanced rigging system in combination with JCMs to make the mesh behave nicely with those.

I don't find the shin length a problem nor the arm length either.
She poses much better than some models and that's fine with me. :)

I've almost got my retail texture/character set ready but I'm going to look for some testers just to make sure I got everything working right. lol.

I've finished all the promo images...yay!

Quote - Yep, I'm taking full responsibility for that shin length thing. I actually changed the thigh/shin ratio to what it is now when I noticed that when Antonia's legs were bent at the knees, her shins looked too short. This seems to be a common problem. Due to limitation in the rigging system, actor origins are in practice not always placed at their natural and realistic pivot points, which leads to inconsistencies in the relative proportions of body parts.

You have to remember that Antonia was rigged pre-P8 and with the original intention to make her bend as realistically as possible even without JCMs. If I made a new figure from scratch now, I'd probably do more detailed research on human proportions, try to place actor origins as close as possible to their natural pivots and use P8's advanced rigging system in combination with JCMs to make the mesh behave nicely with those.

It is not a big thing, and it becomes apparent only when Antonia is used side-by-side with a real human of same size in same perspective. It is easily fixed when necessary.
I am not an expert in joint setups. You do a great thing with her, and if this is what can be achieved without P8 facilities, I really wonder what can be the result when these are used to the fullest.
 

Quote - Yep, I'm taking full responsibility for that shin length thing. I actually changed the thigh/shin ratio to what it is now when I noticed that when Antonia's legs were bent at the knees, her shins looked too short.

I wonder if using ERC to change the scale of actors when they are rotated would be a viable option?

Perhaps it's somthing to think about for Antonia 2! 

Wow, slowww lately. :)

I'm still trying to get other stuff done until the official release.

But just have to pop in to see if anything is going on that I'm missing ebots for...lol.

I'm really just about finished with my character, now.  :lol:  I had to re-build the cape and rewrite the cape script.  And there were four days of thunderstorms, with periodic power outages, so I wasn't able to work on anything until the weather cleared up.  Then I posted some images of the character on another forum, and they were able to help me refine the face a great deal.  I think it's finally done, so I'm beginning the process of getting things together to post, hopefully on Saturday.

very pretty came out very nice   :)

Cute face.
Reminds me of an actress from some years back.
I can't remember her name but she had blond hair.

The smile is so much like the actress's smile. :)

She looks great, but what would the Commissioner say about that nekid pose

Quote - She looks great, but what would the Commissioner say about that nekid pose

He might say, "My goodness, Barbara.  Look at that lovely texturing by SaintFox and BluEcho.  And isn't that pose by lesbentley?  My, what a remarkable figure this Antonia is, which odf has created."

Or maybe not.  :lol:

I didn't want to post another image of the costumed character, and I wanted to show the whole face.  But the secret identity has no clothes of her own.    I guess I could have tried to port the body morphs to the beachvolleyball bikini set.

I recently got 3D Coat, so I'm hoping my next step will be to create some better hair while learning the new software.  Antonia could use some hair of her own.

Does anybody care what's happening to the wrists in Cage's render?

Quote - Does anybody care what's happening to the wrists in Cage's render?

Yeah, the wrists are doing funny things.  I hadn't noticed that in earlier versions.  Wondering whether it results from the new JCMs?  

Quote - > Quote - Does anybody care what's happening to the wrists in Cage's render?

Yeah, the wrists are doing funny things.  I hadn't noticed that in earlier versions.  Wondering whether it results from the new JCMs?  

What are the rotation settings for the hands? What about IK? The values for the JCM channels aren't updated with IK on, so that's often a cause for strange deformations.

False alarm.  I just tested the pose with the download version of Antonia 124, and the wrists look fine.  So it looks like I screwed things up somewhere when I ported the character from 123 to 124.  I'll transfer the morphs and everything to a clean 124 tomorrow. 

Edit:

I see what happened.  It's the disappearing JCM bug hitting me again.  I'd saved the .pz3 with the hands hidden, because of the gloves, and Poser dropped the ERC from all of the hand JCMs.

This bug is really getting me down.  :cursing:

I had a similar problem with the feet but when I checked the IK was on for both.
After I turned IK off the problem went away.

But on the wrists in Cage's model,  I don't know if that's the case.

Quote - I had a similar problem with the feet but when I checked the IK was on for both.
After I turned IK off the problem went away.

But on the wrists in Cage's model,  I don't know if that's the case.

IK seems to do funny things to the rotation settings of the goal actor for the IK chain, sometimes.  That can lead to similar-looking effects, and much worse.  In this case, the ERC was broken in the hands.  Once I plugged the ERC code back into the .cr2, things were fine.

Poser will drop the ERC from joint-controlled morphs on hidden actors, when saving figures in a .pz3.  I've reported the problem to customer support, but I'm not sure anything will be done about it.  Unfortunately, this will be a problem when working with a clothed Antonia in .pz3 form. 

Possibly a pose to re-insert all JCM ERC should become part of the standard Antonia distribution for each version (odf?)?

Quote -
Possibly a pose to re-insert all JCM ERC should become part of the standard Antonia distribution for each version (odf?)?

Good idea! I'll put it on my to-do list.

I've uploaded the character I've been working on.  :woot:

Finally.  :lol:

http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/Antonia/Antonia_stuff.html

Now I can stop spamming the thread with it.  :lol: 

That's pretty awesome. I've downloaded and played a little, and really like both the character and the costume. Thanks for that, Cage!

Two tiny problems I've noticed: first, the cr2 references files lPoints.obj and rPoints.obj, but the geometry folder contains lpoints2.obj and rpoints2.obj. Second, the rPoints actor does not always seem to follow the gloves when posed.

The toe morphs are done, and I've started on the neck (or rather, head) JCMs. I'm planning to put out release 0.9.125 fairly soon, which will have the complete set of JCMs and the finalized body shape and rig. There may be a 0.9.126 later with some cleanups and updates on the CR2, updated poses and the like, and maybe little fixes if someone finds a blatant problem with the JCMs or another one of those pesky bugs in the CR2. At that point I will give PhilC the go ahead for WW support (he requested I let him know when the girl is stable) and start on expression morphs.

The 126 release, at the latest, will also contain blank channels for the expression morphs I'm planning to make, so that I can upload them as INJ poses as I go.

Quote - That's pretty awesome. I've downloaded and played a little, and really like both the character and the costume. Thanks for that, Cage!

Two tiny problems I've noticed: first, the cr2 references files lPoints.obj and rPoints.obj, but the geometry folder contains lpoints2.obj and rpoints2.obj. Second, the rPoints actor does not always seem to follow the gloves when posed.

Oh, dang. 

I also forget to scale the figures.  The character should be 5'4" without shoes, but stands about a foot taller than that, if Poser's measurement of feet is accurate.

The neck bend is looking good!  :woot:  How does it handle with scaling?  I had a bit of trouble with the twist parameters on the Y-scaled neck.  :sad:

Quote -
The neck bend is looking good!  :woot:  How does it handle with scaling?  I had a bit of trouble with the twist parameters on the Y-scaled neck.  :sad:

I should go test that.

I only have JCMs on the head bends, by the way, because I thought the neck looked pretty decent as it was.

Quote - I only have JCMs on the head bends, by the way, because I thought the neck looked pretty decent as it was.

The neck does look pretty good without any JCMs.  I ran into a bit of distortion on both the head and neck, due to the lengthening I applied.  The uploaded character has had the neck and head joint parameters tweaked a bit, for the length.  I added falloff zones, which seems to have helped.  I didn't test the alterations at normal 100% scaling, however, so I'm not sure they're any good except with the extra Y scaling.

I've corrected the problem with the glove point geometries, as well as scaling the figure BODY actors, and have uploaded a new .zip file.

Have you had a look at the changes I made in 124 with regard to neck stretching? I think I fixed some of the issues you had mentioned earlier, so I'd be interested to hear your opinion.

In the image you posted there seems to be a bad kink at the bottom of the neck that does not exist in the current version. Is this really so?

Quote - odf,

In the image you posted there seems to be a bad kink at the bottom of the neck that does not exist in the current version. Is this really so?

I believe the technical term for that 'kink' is clavicle. :laugh: The render is of the low-res version of the mesh, so it tends to look a bit angular from certain angles.

Quote - Have you had a look at the changes I made in 124 with regard to neck stretching? I think I fixed some of the issues you had mentioned earlier, so I'd be interested to hear your opinion.

Yes, the changes made for the 124 release helped a great deal.  :thumbupboth:  I started using them as soon as you posted the insertion pose to the thread.  (Did you state at the time that the correction mainly help with bend only?  Or am I mixed up about that?)  At any rate, the 124 neck tweaks help a lot.  I am in no way trying to be down on the 124 improvements!  :laugh:

As I worked on the character, though, and did a lot of pose-testing, I found a few places that weren't cooperating, with the new length.  I specifically remember problems with the head twist creating some distortion at the sides of the neck.  Also, a lump at the back and base of the neck, with neck bending.  I don't think any of this stood out as a problem until I did funny things with the scaling.

Quote -
As I worked on the character, though, and did a lot of pose-testing, I found a few places that weren't cooperating, with the new length.  I specifically remember problems with the head twist creating some distortion at the sides of the neck.  Also, a lump at the back and base of the neck, with neck bending.  I don't think any of this stood out as a problem until I did funny things with the scaling.

Good to know! Thanks!

Cage,

I like your Bat Girl figure, and the spandex morphs in the BG_suit will be very useful (as they will work on the Antonia figure). I noticed a slight glitch in the Batgirl_Antonia figure. The "TorsoThickness" morph in the lThigh does not function as part of the FBM, the slaving code is missing. Also the memorized state of the figure is different to the load state.

Quote - Cage,

I like your Bat Girl figure, and the spandex morphs in the BG_suit will be very useful (as they will work on the Antonia figure). I noticed a slight glitch in the Batgirl_Antonia figure. The "TorsoThickness" morph in the lThigh does not function as part of the FBM, the slaving code is missing. Also the memorized state of the figure is different to the load state.

Thanks, Les.  I've uploaded the corrected files.

While making the corrections, I noted that Poser will drop the JCM ERC when saving to the library, contrary to what seemed to be the case when I tested the problem in the past.  Am I really the only one noticing this frustrating bug?    It will affect the library, as well as a .pz3.  :cursing:

I should also point out that the spandex morphs for hip2 will suffer from the previously-discussed "cameltoe" distortion from the JCMs.  I couldn't figure out how to get around that, unfortunately.  :sad:

Trust  the e-bots to go on strike again! I always miss so much when this happens!

I like the Batgirl, Cage, I still haven't gotten round to rendering regular Antonia yet, naughty of me!

CHEERS!

Here is my attempt at a pz2 file to (re)inject the slaving for the JCM. I haven't tested it. I can't even think of a way to test it in any sort of reasonable time scale, so it may contain errors and/or omissions.

Cage,

Yes, the slaving being striped out of JCM in invisible actors is a bummer, though I must admit I had never noticed before you brought it to our attention. I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but the code is being striped out in the load operation, not the save.

Quote - Cage,

Yes, the slaving being striped out of JCM in invisible actors is a bummer, though I must admit I had never noticed before you brought it to our attention. I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but the code is being striped out in the load operation, not the save.

It looks more like it's dropped when saving, but the conditions have to be right.  If you load a hidden actor with JCM ERC, that ERC will be loaded into memory if it's present in the file.  If you make the actor visible, the ERC will be activated.  But if you keep the actor hidden and then re-save, it seems that Poser treats the information like it was never loaded, and doesn't save the ERC.  I assume it was some kind of optimization, restricting what is loaded into active memory somehow.  

What I have to do to re-process the uploaded figure and save back to the library with ERC is load the current file with hidden actors.  Then show all actors and re-save to the library.  Then load this file with all actors visible, do my processing, hide the actors again, and save back to the library.  This way Poser keeps all of the ERC.  So the ERC is being loaded when a file is opened.  It just isn't always being saved.

Or that's my understanding, gained from experimentation.  It's a serious PITA, and I really hope they fix it.  If others report this as a bug, like I did, maybe they'll decide it's important.

BTW, I've included a hide-show actors script, to make it easier to work with the clothed figure and keep the ERC.  If an actor is visible when the file is saved, it seems to be safe.  I've never had the ERC dropped from a visible actor.