There may be a perfectly good reason for this, but I don't get it...

Why, when designing shirts/coats/etc for M4 do modelers make the shoulders so blasted "bumpy"? I'm a pretty muscular guy, and yes, my shoulders are built up, but when I put a shirt on, it doesn't cling to my shoulders and make big bumps like the M4 clothes all seem to do. I've noticed that quite often the clothing shoulders are MUCH larger than M4's own shoulders, and the modelers have chosen not to put any morphs there to accomodate the fact that not all men are built that way. It's just WRONG!

Why are M4's shoulders modeled that way in clothing? And please don't tell me it's because of the way Daz modeled his shoulders. As stated above, NOT ALL CLOTHING CLINGS. I suspect it is a kludge to solve a difficulty, but not one has ever owned up to it. I spend tons of time fixing this error in the modeling process. Can anyone explain why it's done this way?

I suppose this is like asking why M4 pants don't have a package morph (with few exceptions) but that's another thread! :)

OK... I'll go ahead and ask it in this same thread...

While we're at it, why do so few M4 pants have a morph for Mike's package? As modelled, most pants have him castrated and completely emasculated. And even if he wasn't, he'd be a soprano after wearing the pants!

Are we really that prudish as a group? Do the distaff modelers need to check an anatomy book? <grin - just teasing> Or is there a modeling issue that makes it hard to do? I mean, for heaven's sake... load M4... load his jewels... model to fit!

Or, am I again missing something because I don't model? 

My theory is that most modellers are men and they'd rather be modelling stuff for Vicki and spend less time obsessing over M4's crotch :)  

But seriously you've raised two valid points.   The fact remains that there are fewer realistic clothing options for the males than the females.   And out of those fewer options there are even fewer well-done models.   Many of the better modellers do not even make any male content. . .

 I believe Uzilite had shoulder fixes in some of his clothes to make them look more natural and package morphs as well.

Believe me, I've seen some odd modelling for V4 et al as well. Almost no one models V4 with natural boobs - and I mean natural as in wearing a bra, natural, and heaps smaller. I mean, dialling in the natural morph only brings them down to where she looks like she's wearing a correctly-fitted bra, as opposed to that of her little sister with the straps too tight.

Thank goodness for Morphing Clothes. That's usually one of the first thing I do with Vickie's tops: make the boobs smaller and lower on the chest, then add a bunch of other morphs then re-save as a modded cr2.

About the blokes: I think that the point is well-taken about most modellers being guys who really don't want to think about that package too much. We need more female modellers!!!

Shoulders are problematic area in Rigging, and muptiply that with Poser primitive rigging there is not much help. Modeling a shirt is modeling 101, so its not the model but rigging limitation. As for crouch area, that is paying attention to details. If modeler want to make quality job it will pay attention to that area too ;)

Yup, what Tantarus said.

 But why SHAPE them that way? Why not shape more naturally, and let the curves below b e somewhat hidden as is the case with real human beings?

Quote -
We need more female modellers!!!

As long as they don't have the same sense of taste as tom brady's wife has when it comes to his hair.

cringes

Tom Brady? Who is Tom Brady?

Patriots (football team) quarterback.

I think his hair's kinda cute! 

runs and hides

I think (but can't prove) that a lot of the 'clinging' is because someone's making a texture? It was more a problem back when dinosaurs ruled the earth (V1-V3...;). Just slappin' a coat of texture over the body looks like it's just clinging. Actually, I'd suspect that making wrinkled and loose clothing requires a lot more modeling skill that the same old sprayed on look.

Realistic loose clothing would require dynamics- and dynamic clothing is another thing we don't see a lot of.

Ever try using magnets to make a "package" on the pants? It shouldn't be too difficult (though, being a guy, I haven't played much with male packages in Poser, so I can't speak from experience...)

As said a few posts up - unless someone is nice enough to make some adjustment morphs to give something like a suit jacket cleaner shoulders, we're limited by the rig in the base mesh. And that goes for every single figure out there.

V4's shoulder and clothing in that area are no better than M4 - or figures before them. Just that V4 tends to have more skimp ware than M4 so it's not always as noticeable.

It's not just slap some polys together, call them clothing and off they go. It's a fairly involved process that doesn't always cooperate 100% of the time like we content creators wish. I've got lots of unfinished projects gathering dust because one little thing after I think I'm done crops up and it doesn't want to go away. Or I fix one thing and another problem crops up and pisses me off. 

As for lack of bulge - that's something easily forgotten/ignored because if you're modeling around the M4 base mesh it simply isn't there (which does make it easier to model to tell the truth). But considering how often many of the regular Morphs++ for either figure aren't included in clothing, the lack of bulge isn't something that riles me up as much as having to add my own morphs to something I've purchased because it doesn't fit a character I've dialed up.

I created a "package" morph for Hiro3 when using textures as clothing on his lower half. Just a simple single magnet to pull a bulge out of his hip area to make him look "male".

I considered uploading it as a freebie, but looking at the number of clothes (commercial & free) for Hiro3 and I didn't feel it was worth the effort.