I'm working on updating some of my tutorials and I would like to know what are some of the common problems that beginners seem to have when trying to learn Poser in general as well as Poser 8 specifically.

So if you are a beginner please share some of your things that you have found challenging or difficult to learn or accomplish using Poser or Poser 8.  If you aren't a beginner then share some of the things that beginners tend to ask about.

Thanks any information will be very valuable and helpful to me for when I update.

My first suggestion to beginners is to READ THE MANUAL !  Its maybe not the best but it does explain loading figures, conforming clothing, dynamic clothing etc.

With V4 a problem seems to be using the magnet pose so the built in magnets affect the clothing.

Read the Poser Tutorial PDF.  Not the Poser Manual PDF.  Learn first about the zero pose and about turning IK off for the legs.  Learn about the file extensions used and the reasoning behind why things are stored in the Poser Library the way they are.

Then explain what the Runtime folder means.  Maybe why it's even called Runtime, because for years I just assumed that it contained EXE files in it.

I recently started learning Poser hardcore (about three weeks ago).  Now I know how to model my own Poser figures from scratch (except for use in the Face Room).

And even the Tutorial pdf should be re-organised. Not everyone wants to know about 3D-space theory and Cartesian Coordinates.
As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to go on record to say that the very fewest neophytes feel a burning desire to know about vertices, splines and polygons. This can be briefly covered, but what they really want to know is how to put someone in a temple, slap a sword in her hand and turn the scene into art.
So, they move on - or away, or come here - looking for something that will inspire their creativity.

Suggestion for a better tutorial: simple, highly varied scenes - PZ3s - with figures and everything loaded, each with tutorials explaining them to death, starting with the important stuff, and drilling down to like even mat room and stuff like that.

Not that I am a beginner, but I would say that proper lighting seems to be missing from most of the renders I encounter.

Certainly agree with DarkEdge,Convincing lighting for me is the most challenging.

Lighting is not easy at first.
Read the manual.
And be patient while learning all you can.

Lighting to me is the last step before clicking the Render button.  Beginners may have a lot more Poser obstacles to tackle before they get to changing the default lights.

Quote - As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to go on record to say that the very fewest neophytes feel a burning desire to know about vertices, splines and polygons.

:: nervously raises hand ::

I... I'm one of them... actually...  :|

Quote - ... what they really want to know is how to put someone in a temple, slap a sword in her hand and turn the scene into art.

Sadly, their hopes are quickly deflated the moment they discover there is no Make Art button.

For me, the single most difficult hurdle was understanding content management and file/folder structure.

I started noodling around with 3D art when DAZ first came on the scene back in 2006.  Unfortunately, I didn't create anything with it until 2008 because I found it overwhelmingly difficult to understand exactly how files and folders were structured in a way that the program could read them, nevermind trying to figure out how the Content Manager worked.  I experience the same headache with the trial version of Poser 5.  Worse, I learned about as many different ways to organize content as there were tutorials on the subject.  Once I finally grasped the concept of external runtimes, everything I had studied about both topics finally clicked.  I spent the next three months creating my first series of renders.

I finally understood that I don't have to extract everything I download into DAZ or Poser's runtime libraries, or make sure all of the appropriate files are in their respective folders.  I keep all of my content archived and organized with my own filing system until I need something, at which point I simply extract whatever I need into an external Project runtime.  Once I'm done with the Project, I delete the runtime.  I keep my hdd very nice and tidy that way.  In fact, the only things occupying Poser's runtime is its legacy content, and the base and morphs++ for M4 and V4.  Everything else is archived in a separate Downloads folder.

Quote - Lighting to me is the last step before clicking the Render button.  Beginners may have a lot more Poser obstacles to tackle before they get to changing the default lights.

Which was the basis for my suggestion.

If Poser neophytes had an example scene to work with and an associated tutorial that described what was where and why (including lights) to start off with instead of a discussion on normals, vectors and collisions, they'd get a grip on what makes a good scene a lot quicker. Of course, we'd have to have that scene and all its components go through some rigorous checking for accuracy.

Sort-of like Poser-for-Noobies...

Quote - If Poser neophytes had an example scene to work with and an associated tutorial that described what was where and why (including lights) to start off with instead of a discussion on normals, vectors and collisions, they'd get a grip on what makes a good scene a lot quicker. Of course, we'd have to have that scene and all its components go through some rigorous checking for accuracy.

Sort-of like Poser-for-Noobies...

Now that method of learning Poser I have to agree with.

Two more items.  Installing content to a runtime and adding a figures and props to a scene.  Most new users have no idea how to install content or where.  If they learn to install it right the first time, it saves them a whole lot of grief later.

As for the second, I've lost count of the number of new users who ask how to import a figure into either Poser or DS.  They don't understand the basics of adding a figure to a scene or the Poser library.

Render settings is another.  How many bounces, irradiance caching, when to use IDL, min shading rate. 

Some content providers have the same problem (but thankfully, the number has dropped waay down...;)

So far, the cloth room is a complete mystery to me..can't get it to do anything (and that's in Poser 5).
Morphing, animation, etc., are also things I've never tried...

I should probably buckle down with the good Doc's tuts, but hey, there can never be too many.

i  am having trouble  finding this Make Art button -
I can't find anything on it in  the manual or in the tutes.... - which  menu  is it in?

Thanks

Quote - I'm working on updating some of my tutorials and I would like to know what are some of the common problems that beginners seem to have when trying to learn Poser in general as well as Poser 8 specifically.

I didn't take the op as asking for problems starting from number 1, I believe they just wanted ideas or suggestions.

<tongue_in_cheek>
one of the most important things new folk need to know (judging by the gallery) is how to turn shadows on
</tongue_in_cheek>

[ps - lighting should be the first thing you think about rather than the last thing before you hit the render button.]

Before one hits the render button, they should first take a few art classes (and pass).  Then they'll know if the result was successful or not before they fill their gallery with images that are meh.

I don't know what sort of things you want to teach about. RobynsVeil certainly makes some good points, and I would not disagree with her. DarkEdge also makes a good point, lighting is a weak point for many beginners.

However I'll mention a few other things. Many of them may not be relevant to the sort of tutorial you want to do, as perhaps some are a bit more advanced, but these questions keep cropping up in the forums.

Setting the display options for the scene, and particularly for the GROUND plain can be challenging for beginners. Also worth pointing out about Preferred state, and to UI dots.

IK, its uses and abuses is a must.

Having binary morphs turned on in the General Preferences is a curse, newbies should be warned about this.

Beginners forget about focal length, and don't realise that the ridiculously short default focal length is only suitable for panoramic landscapes.

The Body and hip. Beginners will translate the hip, then wonder why applying a pose moves the figure to a different location.

Spawning a morph, or exporting a morph target as an obj. Beginners don't usually understand what to include in a morph. They will for example use a magnet to make the nose longer, then spawn a morph whilst a character FBM is still applied to the head.

Saving a smart prop. That one had me stumped for long time. You can't use "Select Subset" if you want to save as a smart prop.

Animation. Worth pointing out that Animating can be turned off for lights and cameras, and that Linear interpolation, is often much more appropriate than the default Spline interpolation.

Some other questions that pop up regularly:

I want V4 to hold the sword (gun) in both hands!

How do I make INJ and REM files?

Walk Designer drops my figure to the floor, how do I make her walk on the roof?

How do I make a MAT pose?

Thanks everyone.  This is very helpful information keep adding to it if something else pops in mind.

I haven't seen many tutorials on creating perspectives with cameras. 

beginning poser 8 probs include how to do good settings for:

• lites
• shadows
• IDL
• render

the downside for them is having to explain to them that they need to buy $$$$ worth of content in order to do renders that are either saleable or at least get plenty of "wow, great pic" comments from their peers. then they get on that endless treadmill of buying stuff and collecting/organising it, concerning which we see the main beginner question: how to organise 100 GB of poser content?

Quote - You can't use "Select Subset" if you want to save as a smart prop.

I just read that one over again in the Practical Poser book last night while trying to remember what library folder I was supposed to save my smart prop in (Figures or Props or Poses).

Quote - You can't use "Select Subset" if you want to save as a smart prop.

That is really something that needs to change, it's silly that we can do it through a word program and not the app.

Quote - Not that I am a beginner, but I would say that proper lighting seems to be missing from most of the renders I encounter.

yep!!!

Quote - Before one hits the render button, they should first take a few art classes (and pass).  Then they'll know if the result was successful or not before they fill their gallery with images that are meh.

goes to delete gallery since it is meh

Here you go:  Jan

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

If I was to be really unkind, I could say the biggest challenge to new users - judging by some of the posts we get - would be reading the fucking manual.  

But since I'm not an unkind person, I won't say that. 

Quote - If I was to be really unkind, I could say the biggest challenge to new users - judging by some of the posts we get - would be reading the fucking manual.  
But since I'm not an unkind person, I won't say that. 

Right arm Paul.

A tutorial, well I have an idea for ya.

How to get something out of the HAIR room?????

On a day to day basis , without loosing ones own hair?? LOL

OK, that settles it for the first couple of years LOL.

Attached Link: http://www.drgeep.com/p5/hr/hr.htm

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

If the manual were that great, we wouldn't need a Dr Geep, now, would we? :biggrin:

Sorry, that manual needs to be redone. I've attempted it several times, both as a -let's-just-read-this-cover-to-cover- and even with noDoze fell off my chair, and then, as reference material which led me from pillar to post and ended with the statement "such-and-such can be done in Poser 7".

Yep, sure. HOW????

And then, all that semi-information, like all the stuff about the material room. Maybe I should intuitively understand the significance of:

The P node defines a point in space. It has the following attributes:
•     X: The X attribute is the point’s X location.
•     Y: The Y attribute is the point’s Y location.
•     Z: The Z attribute is the point’s Z location.

'K, but what does it DO?? What the heck does one use this for? I want examples. That would be helpful, even critical.

Back when I went to uni, one of my professors told his incredulous class: "In this course you will unlearn everything you were ever taught in school up to this point."
Well, he didn't really, but the dimension he added made it seem like he did. That dimension was called: historical significance. IOW, there was a point to all those events in history and when they happened and what else was going on at the time, etc.

Same sort of principle could apply here.
This is a P node. And this is how you use it in a sentence.

Describing a P node or a Noise node is a good start, but how to use it appropriately and what it works with and what you should avoid and ... and ... and ... am I the only one wondering why this stuff wasn't all documented by those who developed it? Who the heck else could/would/should write it?

Dr. Geep is making house calls LOL

Quote - If the manual were that great, we wouldn't need a Dr Geep, now, would we? :biggrin:

I think with all of the responses I'm getting I'll be able complete a good update to many of my tutorials.  I pretty much use Poser's manual as a technical reference guide.  For me I would compare it to the difference of knowing how to manufacture a flute and knowing how to actually play one.  But that's just my opinion.  Which is why I write tutorials ha ha ha.

"...the difference of knowing how to manufacture a flute and knowing how to actually play one..."
Good analogy, FightingWolf.

I am fairly new at Poser and One thing I cannot figure out is Magnets, and how they are used, not why they use them, most of the time the tutorials tell you why you need to use something will be 4 pages long  but how to actually do something will be 1 Paragraph long.  You can never have to many Picture Illustrations..

Attached Link: http://www.drgeep.com/p4/m1/m1.htm

Attached Link: http://www.drgeep.com/p4/m2/m2.htm

Attached Link: http://www.drgeep.com/p4/m3/m3.htm

Attached Link: http://www.drgeep.com/p4/m4/m4.htm

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Hey Doc,

How about one for the morph brush? 

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2792724&page=1

Dr Geeps you truly never cease to amaze me. ha ha ha.  You have a Pill for Everything Poser. ha ha ha

Workin' on it! ... :biggrin:

Perhaps SM might want to consider you for their next sortie of the Poser User Tutorial, Dr Geep... Now, there's a tutorial that guaranteed to be read!

Quote - Perhaps SM might want to consider you for their next sortie of the Poser User Tutorial, Dr Geep... Now, there's a tutorial that guaranteed to be read!

I hope I'll be able to reach that status but I'm a long way from it.  I still have quite a bit of tutorials to write.