Probably didn't see that folks would replace a 25 cent bulb with a 7 dollar bulb. It is not cost effective and if the government hadn't stuck thier nose in it they would still be making the cheaper bulbs.

Cree (maker of LED lighting) has an office building around the corner in RTP (research triangle park). If you've seen stoplights with dots of light instead of a whole bulb, that's LEDs at work.

The jury's still out, I'll use incandescents until they pry them out of the cold, dead sockets...;)

GE is manufacturing LED bulbs under the EarthLED brand. I'm sure they started this before shutting down their old plant, and used the new legislation as a reason, but privately didn't mind. They also have CFL's under the Energy Smart brand.

I'm still irritated about the vinyl, cassette tape, 8 track, CD, Mp3 mess. Not to mention the VHS, DVD, digital switch. Anyone want about 200 movies on VHS?  Why make new movies, when you can just keep re-releasing the same ones in different formats... and I forgot blu ray. 

I'll use the CFL's I already have until they burn out, and slowly replace them with LED. Just because they're pretty, shiny, sparkly. :PPP 

Quote - Cree (maker of LED lighting) has an office building around the corner in RTP (research triangle park). If you've seen stoplights with dots of light instead of a whole bulb, that's LEDs at work.

They were testing those traffic lights here in Toronto as an energy saving move. There are about 250 intersections using them in the trial. I suspect that all intersection lights will be changed over shortly as the test was deemed sucessful. This city has been on a massive energy re-fit since the blackout a few years back. I kinda like them. I do find that the lens is pretty directional though so if you are a bit off to the side then they appear not to be working. No problem for drivers but doesn't work so well for pedestrians and cyclists that catch them at an off viewing angle. I find that the ones they have placed as overhead highway lighting on the major roadways here are very good though they have little spread.

We've had those for years in KY.

I replaced all of my incandescents ten years ago with CFLs.  I get 6 packs at Lowes or Home Despot for $8-10, and can sometimes get them for a dollar each.

Take the equivalent wattage with a grain of salt.  The most common 13 Watt ones are too dim for most table lamps-I use 18 and 23 Watt.

I use them in regular fixtures-I find that many fixtures that take the rung or U shaped tubes tend to put out a harsh bluish light and the replacements cost  $5 or more.  I got reflective inserts for my ceiling cans that increase the available light.

As far as mercury goes, there is about 4 mg per bulb.

4mg will add up when we all have to start throwing them in the landfill.

Watch just the intro to The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) for an idea of where the US is headed.  No one is safe.  Not even those who still have a job working for the Federal Government.

same thing ( incandescents being phased out) is happening in the UK.
tried the new CFL bulbs, had to swap back in the main rooms of the apartment. i found that after about half an hour i would get an headache.
very difficult to find 100W incandescent bulbs now, next to go will be the 60W variety.

btw the lifetime comparison is based on the lights being on continuously. in real life, being switched on and off constantly, the lifespan of CFL's is very similar to incandescent.

also, they are dangerous in areas that have rotating machinery ( ie engineering workshops, woodwork shops etc)

i have stockpiled quite a few bulbs in 40W and 100W variety as i just cannot get on with CFL
( think i have about 150 40W and 300 X 100W stowed away!  lol!)

Quote - 4mg will add up when we all have to start throwing them in the landfill.

It's been reported that burning the coal to light a typical incandescent bulb over its lifetime releases 10 mg of mercury into the atmosphere...

That may be true, but as I happen to live right next to a superfund site I would like to counter that with the notion that the concentration of a toxin is far more important than the total amount in the atmosphere. Particularly important is if that concentrated toxin is uphill of a community water source.

agreed

don't matter if it is down hill or up hill it gets into the ground water and then into the public water from there.

Quote - As you age your need for good light increases, I'm 51....

No worries, the Health Care Reform will solve that issue.

On home gardening, look up HR 875 if you haven't heard about it already.

That the one where they limit food production even for home gardeners?

Yep Health Care Reform will assure us that we won't live past 55.

You guys got me searching for info on your food safety/health reform act and hr875. The hype scares the crap out of me. There seems to be a lot of mis-information on the net regarding it. Near as I can tell reading the text it won't nail the small home gardener or urban farmer UNLESS they process food for consumption by any other than their own household. This means don't make a pie for your kids school bake sale or give your friend a jar of your jam.

If you like local farmer's markets... There probably won't be any. Your u-pick berry/fruit places will probably be forced out of buisness and going to your local farmer for eggs or milk won't be happening.

I can see why the bill is set as it is in order to protect your food safety. You folks use sewage to fertilize your farms. Didn't anyone ever tell you not to crap where you eat? I'm certainly not about to defend this bill in any way shape or form but I can see some logic in it. Very little; but some. I'm off to do some more research. This is scary sh!t.

Parkdalegardener:

There is a big difference in the old school liberals and these new progressives. Progressives have more in common with the writings of Marx. Control the food and you control the people. One third of the damned world is starving and these folks want to limit food production.
The only farmers that use human waste for fertilizer are south of the border. I use horse and cow and duck.

Get used to growing your own food in the US.  Because the government is working on removing gasoline from the economy, which means grocery stores will be empty.  And nine missed meals for everyone leads to anarchy.

will put the nutrisystems and weight watchers out of business as well. LOL

My food comes through my car window.  That supply will ge gone after the first day.  No more 4:00am deliveries to Jack in the Box.  If you can find one.  Not all states have them.

Just a reminder that we do watch these threads, and, as we don't want to fall back into our old habit of locking threads that are divisive, I'm going to let this one stay for now.

However, if it becomes full of unproven and unprovable rhetoric, I will lock it.  That means, if you make a claim that the government is going to "do away" with something, a posting on an obscure blog by someone in their basement doesn't count as proof that it will happen.  It is an assumption based on fear.  If, however, a government official, in a position to affect policy has stated it, that is another thing entirely.

Please be mindful of this when you post.  I'd rather not see personal attacks flung because of politics, which seems to somehow be a hotter issue these days than even Religion.

JenX:

The ban on incandesent bulbs is pretty much common knowledge, but if you haven't heard of it here is a link from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banning_of_incandescent_lightbulbs

 That I know...I was actually referencing some comments made later in the thread.  

JenX:

HR875? if that is it I'll get you some references after I get off work tonight.

 Yes, I've read the bill.  That hasn't even entered a committee in the House yet, and that was as of April of 2009.  The fact that a bill exists does not mean that it is guaranteed to become law.  And the length of time since it's creation until now just tells me that the likelihood of it becoming law aren't very high.  It's one of those "Are we worrying about the important stuff?" things.  

Anyone notice that you can now get 95 watt incandescent light bulbs. They get around the 100 watt rules. Phillips makes them.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/philips/95-watt-a19-soft-white-incandescent-light-bulb-59854.html

Does anyone really think that Jack (The Knife) Welch's old company was going to keep making any kind of lightbulbs in the US?  This may be a convenient excuse for them but seriously, if you can't make an "acceptable" profit on televisions, computers, cellphones etc. without going overseas, do you really think they're going to keep making a commodity like lightbulbs here? I'm pretty sure the LEDs will end up in Shanghai as well. Unless China adopts some of those oh so awful "liberal" policies like environmental protection, trade unions, decent healthcare , wages and working conditions, that isn't going to change.

The reality is that emerging countries have reached a point where they can make stuff that Americans want cheaper than we can. The Chamber of Commerce complains that if it just wasn't for all those odious regulations that make them stop polluting, provide marginally safe working conditions etc. keep them from competing. In truth, they'd still find that 1/10th of a cent per unit differential compelled them to go offshore. Unless you really believe that their loyalty is to country rather than the bottom line.

Clean energy, nano-technology etc. any be the answer, but I fear that the future's just going to be rough any way you slice it.  In 20 years,  the only jobs here will be emptying bedpans and flipping burgers (assuming Japanese robots aren't doing that. The worst is yet to come. People are whining about "Communism," and over-regulation while the heavily controlled, authoritarian Communist economic regime is laughing all the way to the Yuan repository. Reducing it to partisan politics misses the  point entirely, whether you're drinking KoolAid or Earl Grey.

Quote - You know, I was not very aware of the toxicity issue. Mercury vapor!?! Are you kidding me?

And now I raised the question to my wife, and find that despite her being an educated woman, she THROWS THEM IN THE TRASH.

OMG!

This is the biggest cluster f---ing big-government blunder I've seen in years. I know human nature even though I try not to. Millions of people will be throwing these things in the trash. Our town dump will become a toxic waste super-fund site in just a few years. This is outrageous. Seriously.

Totally agree with you.

I tried out one in my office, where my birds also are.....the lamp caught caught on my foot one night while was was cleaning and BAM hit the floor and there was all that beautiful glass all over my carpet....I knew that it had some mercury in it, but good Lord above, I had no idea that I was going to have to do a whole freakin' EPA cleanup!  It was ridiculous.  Try doing that with seven birds in a cage...talk about creating stress jeez o man!

Here's the thing, after that I told my hubs no more of those were to come into this house.  To me, when you go to purchase those things, they should also have up front and center what the supposedly cleanup procedure is.  As far as I'm concerned the government and the manufacturers are totally misleading the public on these stupid things.

I'll be stockpiling, I guess after that unless LED's are out, I'll be burning candles.

Well, I tried just one LED light, and I'm in love. Twinkly lights... like Christmas all year! Now I see why grocery stores are putting them in all their refrigerators and freezers: they make everything look better! I want them under the cabinets in the kitchen, in the bath, along my brick path to the house, in the tv thingy....

You know, I'm all for abandoning fossil fuels and going electric, but I'm too poor to afford any non-internal combustion engine car. Now there's a high-impact area for the government to develop some sort of switch-over program. And those cars better have LED lights in them!

If we ever get to the point we have to eat only what we grow, I'll be eating dirt and dandelions, because that's all I can grow. ;)  

 So how do you simulate cfl's and led lights in poser? 

and geep what kind of light bulbs will the house you're building in the tut have?

Loyal
Environmental
Design

Most traditional fluorescent bulbs do not contain any mercury.  If they contain ANY, they must be clearly marked.

Incandescent bulbs have a remarkable shelf life if unused, packaged and stored at low to moderate relative humidity.

I have several cases of soft whites in my basement, various sizes and wattages.

I'm just sayin'

Coal - keeping the world toasty warm for thirty seven generations.

If you don't like the idea of global warming ... you're really gonna hate another ice age.

My Husband stocked up on The reg light bulbs, we have boxes of them, and every payday he buys more, we are elderly so wht we have will last us our lifetime...

I know LED's have a nice cuddly image as a green alternative to incandescent bulbs, whose only real disadvantage is generation of more heat per lumen of light produced, but ...

Just one thing to ponder - LED's are light emitting diodes, meaning they are semi-conductors.

Quick question - what is, hands down, the largest single former occupancy of sites on the Superfund list.  Give up?  Semiconductor manufacturing.

Unfortunately, to create those nice little suckers requires bathtubs of nasty solvents.

Incandescent bulbs - a tungsten filament, some copper and aluminum for the socket and a nice glass bulb.  No mercury, no methylethylketone, can be thrown in a landfill.  Huh, who'da thunk it?

i've been using those lights for a few years now, exclusively.  in my experience they do last longer and are easily as bright or brighter than the wattage they're replacing.  the color on some of them seem different but there are different types.

i freaked out when i read the disposal warning about them too.

i am eager to find led's but haven't found them yet. 

i certainly don't agree with government banning them, and oppose intrusive government policies like that and many others from the left and the right.  but i won't miss them personally. 

here in texas, it seems very very unlikely there will be a move on independant food supplies like you have mentioned.  there are markets everywhere.  the crosses they bear are not regulation, but the much higher prices they charge than the local markets.  how can independants compete with economies of scale?  they can't.  they can only talk about "patriotism," "quality", etc, using marketing tactics to convince shoppers to spend more.  it works for them.

lets not forget that the us subsidizes its farm economies, without which the developing world would likely eat our lunches.  i am actually in favor of these subsidies, for several reasons:  to keep variety of food species in the food supply, to maintain the country's food production capacity in case of disaster, war, whatever.  but the point is, in a real free market, the american food producer would vanish.  so that they can still sell their wares here in the us at this point seems to me to be with the blessing and helping hand of the government.