Well it is not the fault of PoseMorphLoader,it's basicly mine .I cannot find a tool for modeling joint corrections.- C4d: vertics order mess.- Hexagon: Polygon smoothing needed - Poser morph editing tool : crash .Blender: cryptic interface . Isn't there anybody out there ,who tried to do what I tried to do?No one posted or sold joint correction morphs done with the PoseMorphLoader till now.PoseMorphLoader could be the holy grail of poser ,but I am still waiting for that Poser revolution.Please tell me some workarounds for those issues or name some tools that are great for modeling with Poser figures .

Hi Timberwolf, 
not sure if I understand right - you do not find a deformer that is convenient enough for your modelling requirements?

I was told C4D would be working with PML if a tool named riptide or something is used for import/export.  Have you tried this? Drop me a sitemail if you need help with C4D.

Regarding Hexagon, I was told there is a smoothing brush in the UV/Paint section. I did not try it personally so due to lack of time, unfortunately. I did a bit of smoothing but used Sculptris for it back then.

I'm thinking the smoothing brush in Hex is called the softening brush.

 Timberwolf

While not actually free I use several low cost tools to create JCMs using the Poser Morph Loader.

Primary to my tool set is Silo, which is my preferred modeling software. It can also be used to create morphs using the morph loader to export the figures using the HEXAGON check box. One other quirk with Silo is that you should use Objaction Scaler to increase the size of the exported figure by a factor of 10 or so since Silo doesn't play well at Poser's native scales, Once you are satisfied with the morph save it as an object from Silo and use Scaler to reduce it by the same factor you increased the size.

I also use Argile by N-Sided. This is sort of a low priced package that has some of the features found in Mudbox and Zbrush soft body "sculpting" but it retains the vert order etc. needed by poser very well. Again I use the Morph Loader in Hexagon mode.

Argile's biggest draw back (for me) is that while you can import 2 objects (merge them) Argile's tools will work on both imported objects. So I have a sort of fix that might work with any 3D software, altho I use Silo again. I expand the objects that are exported from Poser as written above. I then import the base figure (say V4) that was exported in the posed positions from Poser, I also import the posed clothing figure. Once in Silo I can look at the 2 figures together and determine where to make the morphs changes. I them load the expanded clothing figure into Argile and use it;s tools to make the changes based on my estimates as seen in Silo and export THAT figure with a new name. I delete to clothing in Silo and import the changed object to compare my morphs to the posed V4. For tiny changes I just do them in Silo, sometimes I have to go back and forth between the programs to get the results I want. Once satisfied I reduce the final morphed object and use Morph Loader to import it as an FBM into the clothing in Poser.

As awkward as this may sound, believe me when I say that Morph Loader has reduced the actual amount of work needed to get good looking morphs and also increased the accuracy I can get!

Oh, I have used Carrara on occasion as well, but I have to say, with mixed results. Sometimes the morphing process works fine using the Morph Loader other times I get an incompatable mesh error. I'm reasonably sure this is due to something I've done in Carrara, but I haven;t had time to track down to a specific operation. The reason I'm sure it;s a Carrara problem is that I've had a few other issues with clothing objects even with out Morph loader... In several cases the facet order seems to be saved from Carrara on a random way the "scrambles" the faces UV order. I think the problems are related, but I'm not sure exactly what causes the problem.

Hope this helps a little at least.

I did a quick test with the Hexagon Smooth Brush (see the UV/Paint toolset tab) and for me it did just what was asked - it smoothed the polygons. You can turn M4's head into a nice smooth ball with spiky teeth. The morph load worked fine. I am beginning to like Hexagon.

And to the point of commercial release, I indeed made some difficult JCM's for M4 to turn him into  a L4, but when I asked for feedback on DAZ, the interest appeared low so I skipped the project :)
Making a set of JCM's is a difficult task still, you have to do the ERC manually.

Letterworks pointed out that when doing a clothing morph it is convenient to have both meshes in the deformes at once, and this should also work in Hex, I had posted a tutorial somewhere here in this forum.

Thank you all for encouragements , I will take a new try on Hexagon . It is a real nasty kind of vertices jam that poser's joint bending creates so I put my hopes on Hex's softening brush.

Maybe the hexagon forum is a good place for asking how to do achieve this and that in hex.

 Timberwolf

Be careful counting on the softening brush to fix you problem. I haven;t used Hex in years but if I remember correctly the softening brush is very similar (if not exactly) like the smoothing tool in Argile. If the joint is jumbled up as much as you imply I've found that simple smoothing can actually work against you. What I;ve found makes fixing these problems is a technique that wasn;t reasonable from a time perspective until Morph loader came out. Now how I work on these problems is in increments.

I move the joint into a partial pose, say just to the point where the mesh really starts to distort, but before it becomes too distorted to work with readily. Export and "repair" the joint in your modeling program. THen use morph loader to import the morph to the clothing.

Now morph the joint further but leave the new morph set at 1, this will typically cause the joint to further distort but again not as much (the new morph is sort of a half fix). When the bending again gets to the point of being distorted but before it becomes too distorted to work effectively with, again export it and the newly posed figure and make another correction.

Repeat this as needed. When  you have the joint fully posed and a morph you like you can edit the CR2 removing the incremental morphs and creating a JCM out of the final morph.

Like I said, before morph loader this would have been days or weeks of work, now I've got it down to hours to do this.

An added bonus is that some of the incremental morphs can be used in conjunction with each other to create the appearance of a JCM that, for example creates a Bulge at one point during the joint bend, but then reduces the bulge as the joint is bent further. These "compound", if you will, JCMs are something I'm experimenting with now. It;s not fully worked out but if you want to experim, some useful info I used to make these type of morphs work together can be found here, in a thread by lesbently.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2805551

Thanks for the warning.Right now I am exploring the Tweak tool from the Vertices modeling tab and the soften Tool from the UV & Paint tab .Those seem to be the tools of my choice . Without Cimerone and your help, I wouldn't have found it.

Hi, -Timberwolf-

You mentioned nasty vertice jams.  Try doing your JCM's in small stages and add them on top of eachother.  For particularly difficult bends that kink the mesh it is easier and better in the end to make the JCM in pieces. IE say you want to bend the thigh 100 degrees, Do your first JCM at a point where the leg mesh just begins to kink, say 40 or 50 degrees. Then do the next piece at say 70 degrees, and so on till you reach your desired 100 degree bend.  Once you have all the pieces working together you can then combine them into a single JCM.

cheers.

 I use Blacksmith3D for making morphs. It loads CR2 files (yes, CR2's - with morphs and all) and lets you either work on an existing morph OR create new ones.

And it doesn't jumble the vertices at all :)

It has a rather powerful smoothing tooll for fixing jumbled vertices, I recently used it on my (in)famous nightgown and it fixed the issue (now I have another one but I'm hoping PML can fix THAT then :) )

I use Sculptris 1.02 and is IMO the best and fastest tool to correct those bad joints. It does have some problems when loading V3 figures, but I found out if you keep trying and do not export the whole figure it works fine.

right now I have got my first quite acceptable reults.I will post some pics later.

Ah looking good :)
Also maybe a usecase for PoseMorphSymmetrizer, to replicate this JCM to the other arm.
In case she is a symmetrical mesh.

You missed some bad joints. Try Sculptris 1.02 if you can find it (it's free) as it's a lot faster than Hex to correct bad joints IMO.

Not really missed.The thing is ,I linked the PML-fixes to the translation parameters,but you cannot create a new fix for every thinkable twist,front-back and bend combination.

Its hard to compensate all kinds of bending with morphs, this is true, its fundamental. but I like the picture  :).

If joints are real bad in the figure and need lots of JCM help, then I think its hard when it comes to poses where multiple JCM's have to be active at once, and they might have a completely different nature.

Furthermore, Poser's ERC is a bit limited i think. I think a much better job could be done with a system that is based on Python and accepts any kind of formular for computing the JCM values.
Then one could specify "JCM interpolation"... I think that could bring better results than Poser's built-in system.

I have been doing some sketchbook work here, but couldn't find a good mathematical base for these calculations yet. It relates a bit to something I did for the makehuman project, which unfortunately couldnt be added yet because of a problem in blender :/

If it's from an animation I understand. That would be a lot of work. But single pictures should not be a problem to fix any joints.

Yes, any still image is easy to fix. But each fix is "for the moment".
A real art would be to fix the entire figure.
So that it bends, well yes, perfectly.
But I am not sure that Poser's ERC system is actually capable for such a thing.

That would be more than art :)

its possible, though.

That is exactly what I tried to do,so joints cannot be perfect ,but I think it's an improvement though.

@ **Zaycrow: ** thank you for Sculptris hint ,I will check it out soon.

Timberwolf,

I have written a plugin for Cinema 4D specifically for use / assistance in making JCMs. The plugin is called MorphMill and has an 'Undeform' tool, along with some other goodies.  It basically lets you pose a figure, freeze the mesh, edit the frozen/deformed mesh, then the plugin can remove the rotation/deformation, giving you the mesh you need to apply as a 'morph' to the original, undeformed mesh.

It's kind of hard to explain, but/so be sure to check out the mini-tut in the Online Documentation.  The plugin has a 30-day free trial period, so you can download it and give it a try.

Cheers,

Keith