@Cage: She looks fantastic. I'm very impressed. I agree that the neck ruffle wrinkles could use a little more work, but everythin else is top notch.

@lesbentley: If you find the time, could you have a look at https://github.com/odf/Antonia.Polygon/zipball/master and see if the tongue now works the way you intended it to?

Everyone else: please remember that you have only 10 days left to report bugs.

Quote - Everyone else: please remember that you have only 10 days left to report bugs.

I'm testing, but not finding any bugs, so far!  :thumbupboth:  (Well, the text files in the "Docs" folder lack an extension and can't be opened until I provide one, and the README file has some funny characters in it wherever there's a double quote symbol.  But these don't count.  :laugh:)

The expression set looks excellent.  Les suggested a "cheek balloon" morph, and I wondered if that would be part of a formal set.  I think a "wider" morph for the mouth (opposite of the "narrow" morph) might be useful, too.  I can pull my face so the mouth is wider that way and the corners pull back, without my either smiling or frowning.

But that's all I've got, so far.  Looking excellent!

No bugs? That sounds almost too good to be true.

Good point about those text files. I'll have a go at making them more Windows-compatible.

I think the "cheek balloon" morph could be useful, if only for special occasions. But I've already left out some morphs that I think would be even more useful, namely ones that simply pull the whole mouth to the left or right, and also JCMs for other movements of the jaw. Hopefully one day, someone - possibly me - will find the time to add them, either in an extension package or as part of a new and improved Antonia.

As for the "wider" morph: the "smile" is exactly that, actually. It would make sense to call it "wider" because all it really does is pull the corners of the mouth apart. Because of the way those muscles work, the mouth gets pulled up at the same time, and the muscles and cheeks are influenced as well. But it's not really a smile. It doesn't do anything with the eyes. If you combine that morph with a tiny bit of "mouth open" and maybe some of the lip morphs, you can make your characters say "eeh" and such.

In order to get a proper smile, one has to add a squint and also pull the lower lids upward (the reason the squint does not include the latter is that the lower lids are also influenced by the eyeballs movements, so they need a separate morph).

I'm debating whether to rename that morph to "wide" and add a "smile" control that would do some default whole-face smile. But I'm a bit afraid that then a lot of people would just use that canned smile everywhere instead of bothering to learn how the system works.

Anyway, at some point I'd like to make some kind of control prop for Antonia's expressions, where one would be able to just pull some handles around and see the various parts of her face follow. A little bit like MorphPutty or whatever it was called, but more specialised and a bit more abstracted, maybe with a stylized face painted on the prop or something like that.

Aha!  So I just haven't learned how to use this expression system yet.  I'll play around with it a bit more.

Rather than creating a special dial for a full smile, perhaps you (or one of us) could create some .fc2 files for Antonia, using the new morphs.  If the morphs can do phonemes, it might be useful to have face library files to create those, at least for reference to know how to combine the morphs to get the right shape.  The trouble being that an applied .fc2 will overwhelm all the face morph settings.  And I guess it creates that risk that people will just use the canned face poses instead of varying any expressions.  :unsure:

Quote - @lesbentley: If you find the time, could you have a look at https://github.com/odf/Antonia.Polygon/zipball/master and see if the tongue now works the way you intended it to?

I have done as you asked. The tongue seems to be working well, and as I intended. I have not had time to check much else about beta. Haven't found anything that could be called a bug yet.

I have been wondering if the lips are a little too deep in the y dimension when the mouth is open. What do you think of the comparison above?

Quote -
I have been wondering if the lips are a little too deep in the y dimension when the mouth is open. What do you think of the comparison above?

I think this may in part be a texture problem. You have to remember that the texture was made before Antonia could open her mouth, so there was no way of testing that combination. That said, it's possible that I didn't quite get the shape right, so I'll have another look at that.

One thing you can try if you're interested is to use a little bit of the UprLipDn and LrwLipUp morphs together with OpenMouth, because if anything, I'd suspect that the lips would actually be pulled slightly inward over the teeth by the skin's tension when one opens one's mouth. That's exactly what UprLipDn and LwrLipUp do, so they then should give you the correct shape.

ETA: Just to put this into context, we're looking for correct, not better. So although I agree that the lips look better in your version, at the end of the day we'll have to check whether real flesh could actually behave that way. There's really no way the upper lip could shrink vertically while the space between the lip and the nose would stretch. So that "rolling inward" motion that UprLidDn does is the only way I can see that would make it appear like that.

I think part of the reason most Poser figures look so bad is because modelers build what they expect to see instead of what's really there, and in the end all those little "betters" turn into one big "worse". :laugh:

I wanted to post an image of the 2nd skin set but my Poser just wouldn't render tonight.

the set is finished as for as texture work. 

Instead of doing a full pose set I intend to do PNGs of just the shorts and top and their displacement and bump maps.

That way they can be used on any Antonia skin set. :)

Maybe tomorrow I can get the images uploaded.

for now I'm going to get some sleep.

There is still a little editing on the top to make the trim even in back but I think that is all.

May be a day or two befor I post this to the free site.

Just checking in to tell you that I am still alive and following the thread. I am forced to stay in bed most of the time by the flu (and by Leo who just told me again to leave the computer and go back under the blankets).

I've downloaded the actual beta and will hopefully try it out during the weekend - but this time I am not able to promise anything. While willing to get up again tomorrow and go on with evrything I am not sure if I am able to. So if you don't hear anything back until the deadline: SORRY!!!

And as you asked about the name and what we should choose: I think that "priceless" is THE perfect term and "avarage" is exactly what you, odf, had in mind since you started this project. Wrapping up these both terms together in a nice and flashy sentence is something I prefer to leave to the native speakers - or to those who have at least more practise than I have and not a shortcut to dict.cc like I have.

"Antonia Polygon - More average than your average Poser girl"

Well... that's priceless! :laugh:

Quote - "Antonia Polygon - More average than your average Poser girl"

Average, but not ordinary... extraordinary!

Perhaps?

Antonia Polygon - An average woman. An exceptional Poser figure!

Here is the finished results, zoom in to see it better.

I will zip this tomorrow or later and post to the free site.

The skin will not be included, just the maps in png format for the top and shorts with their bump and displacement maps.

It can be used with any texture this way and you can set the bump and displacement to suit your own taste.

Just edit in your favorite graphic program and place the texture map over your favorite APG skin.

Do the same for the bump map, just place it over the matching bump skin.

Displacement map is used as is.

@lesbently...that is funny..lol.

Antonia: Made by Happy Little Elves.  :laugh:

Okay.  Maybe not.

The second skin is looking good, BlueEcho!  :woot:

BluEcho,

The outfit looks great!  :thumbupboth:  Which mapping is it for?

les, the latest release but works on the one before this one too.

thanks cage.

How about "Antonia Full Figure - Because the best things in life are free" Wow she has come a long way.:)

Quote - les, the latest release but works on the one before this one too.

BluEcho,

What I meant was, is it for Antonia (MJ mapping), or AntoniaA (original odf mapping).

original odf mapping. :)

Question.... so this new version of Antonia has both old and new mapping options so all the character textures will work with her regardless? 

Correct.  The .cr2 and .obj for the old mapping have an "A" suffix.

Great, thanks for the info.  So those fabulous character skins will work with her!  YAY

My APG_Bodyskins01 is uploaded and can be found here....

http://www.bluecho4u3d.com/Antonia/database/sites/texture_sets.htm

It is free so grab it and have fun. :)

I've just installed this version

odf-Antonia.Polygon-v1.0.0-beta1-0-ga5c0341.zip

to try it out and found that I am not able to texture the figure (by material pose) as the major material zones appear twice (skinBody and skin_BODY for instance). I this just a glitch, can I ignore it, or does it need fixing. In fact all our texture sets search for skin_BODY bit

To make sure that I really, really have the correct version I re-dowloaded and re-installed the file but the result stays the same.

The textures will load into the channels with the correct name anyway but will not show up in the render.

...and now I hope that I did not miss anything and tell you something that you already know...

Edit: Strange enough - I just opened the geometry-file in the UV mapper and in an editor just to have a look and the materials with the wrong name. They do not appear here while they show up in Poser (Material Room: both, the wrong and the correct names, Grouping Tool: Only the wrong material names).

Poser can end up carrying extra material listings in a .cr2.  The non-functional materials, those which aren't present in the .obj file referenced by the .cr2, can be deleted using a text or poser file editor.

I'm surprised that such listings would mess up MAT files, though.    Unless something else is happening.  :unsure:

The materials that aren't present do not show up in my text Editor, I already wanted to fix the problem by myself. That's what is puzzeling me the most...

Quote - The materials that aren't present do not show up in my text Editor, I already wanted to fix the problem by myself. That's what is puzzeling me the most...

Would you like me to have a look at this in Poser File Editor? I can't seem to find that file, though... :blink:

Yes, please - most of all before I make a clown of myself because I overlook something essential :laugh:

By the way: Are you in a whole? What we saw about the hurrican was scary, to me it sounds like a wonder that "only" (please don't misunderstand this term) one person died.

One moment, Robyn, I've overlooked that you can not find the file:

Here is the link

https://github.com/odf/Antonia.Polygon

Just click on the Download button. The file I am testing is v1.0.0-beta1

SaintFox,

I checked the version you mentioned in a cr2 editor, and can't see any problem, either in the cr2 or obj files (I only checked the Antonia files, not the AntoniaA files). As far as I can tell the materials have not changed since at least Antonia-125. I can't actually check the version you mention in Poser, as I am now using the later v1.0.0-beta1-1, but I seem to remember applying your "! Classic ! FullTex.pz2" to the previous version without any problems.

Are you on a PC or a Mac? Is the problem with Antonia, or AntoniaA? Did you perhaps try to apply a MAT for Antonia to AntoniaA, or vice versa?

SaintFox,

I'm now fairly sure you are applying the MAT to the wrong cr2. The material "skinBody" is in the AntoniaA.cr2 (odf UVs), and the material "skin_BODY" is in Antonia.cr2 (MJ UVs). The reason you are seeing both materials, will probably be because the MAT pose is adding the other material to the list when you apply it.

@SaintFox: I'm suspecting it's what lesbentley said, or otherwise Poser got confused somehow, or there are conflicting libraries. If the problem is reproducible after restarting Poser and closing all the libraries you're not using, could you post a step-by-step?

As a side note for any potential CR2-nitpickers, you can see exactly what I changed between beta1-0 (the version SaintFox is using) and beta1-1 (the one Les is using) if you go to https://github.com/odf/Antonia.Polygon/commit/8bfe146dfe172ea588360fe04142c43cba6f960e. :laugh:

That's what I thought as well and so I made sure that I picked the right version. I even loaded all of them, A and non-A, Low and High in Poser and had the same error. Than I loaded the non-A version together with Antonia 126 and found that only the most recent version has that error. But if you are not dealing with these problems I am pretty sure that Poser is the "one" to blame. Maybe it picked the wrong geometry file or something like that. I will try and install and load Antonia into an almost blank Poser 8 and see what happens.

Okay - it's a pure Poser Problem. I have no clue what exactly happened but in Poser 8 with nothing in it but the basic content, the new Antonia and a set of textures everything works as it should. I apologize if I made you nervous, odf!!

I've been testing the Antonia.Polygon-v1.0.0-beta1-0-ga5c0341 version with my texture sets.

Any texture set created for the 126 will work on the 127 version.

Any texture below 126 won't work on 127, you have to use the 127a version.

I have loaded each of my sets from the very first version to the latest and they work okay.

Anything below V.126 needs to have V.127a loaded first and even my morphs worked on it. :)

This means I don't need any of the previous versions in my runtime so I cleaned them out.

No worries, SaintFox! I wasn't particular nervous since everything seemed to work fine on my end. But just to be sure, I'll do some experiments with multiple Antonias in the same scene, using both mappings.

Just to ensure you that everything is okay I did the following:

I have the most recent version of Antonia in her own external runtime, just for the case that it's buggy. So I moved the external runtime to the main runtime. Result: No success, Antonia stayed white.

So I moved all old versions and their geometries out of Poser and into a temporary folder on a different drive. Result: No success.

Then I restarted Poser and the computer and Heureka: She works, she takes all the textures and material settings I have collected during the time.

I am sorry that I stirred up such problems but in fact either Leo and I found a reason for this behaviour. Yes, I feel like a clown again... but on the other hand I thought better tell you (and most of all ask you) than feeling sorry when something is wrong with version 1.0.

Thanks! That's reassuring.

If I remember correctly, long ago the file named Antonia.obj had the odf mapping and usemtl statements. What if SaintFox has an old version of the Antonia.obj, and Poser is finding that old version with the odf mapping, instead of loading the correct version. I have heard of that happening, it seems that in some circumstances Poser will use the first instance of a file with the correct name that it finds, even if the path is not the one in the cr2. I have never experienced this myself, but I have heard people say that it does happen.

No need to feel bad SaintFox! It could happen to anyone, and the cause is far from obvious. I think any one of us would have been mystified if it had happened to us. It's just another case of Poser throwing one in from left field, as they say in the USA.

And now, where I am able to play with our girl again I started to create poses basing on Schlabber's free sets for V4 and Posette (he gave me his permission a while ago and so I am able to share them when they are ready). And wow, I like what I see and I like how much better and more natural they look as they look on their original targets.

Here's a example from the site:

Here's another view from the front. As you can see all the fiddeling with rigging and joints payed off!!!

The pose looks very nice. I am looking forwards to to getting the poses when you have finished them.

If desired I do not release them all at once but in nice packages of... let's say a dozen poses. This way you don't have to wait forever.

Quote - If desired I do not release them all at once but in nice packages of... let's say a dozen poses. This way you don't have to wait forever.

That sounds like a good idea.

Since so much detail has gone into her how about some buttock compression morphs with the sit poses to make her look more realistic yet when sitting down?

I don't know about the rest of you but my buttocks compress when I sit on something and I didn't have to create any morphs at all.  :)

And yes, these poses in conjunction with a superior mesh and joint construct do look more realistic. Great job dear!

Thanks a lot - but the major work was done by Schlabber, I do only translate his ideas to match Antonia's possibilities.

A button compression should at least be able to be achieved with an additional morph. I guess that someone (maybe even I when I have some spare time) will look into it and release it. So far it works pretty good for me to sink the buttocks a bit into the surface and use light with Ambient Occlusion. This causes a nice little shadow that achieves the illusion you're after.