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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 05 9:36 pm)
Subject: Antonia - Opinions?
I've been doing some editing on my sets.
My Nicol set works fine with the Antonia-1.0.obj, as does my APG_Morphs set.
I can't get the older GranTia to work with it at all...sigh.
Might be best to just remove it from the free site and just upload my new older woman set when it's finished.
Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.
Okay, public announcement:
If you
-
are experienced with Wardrobe Wizard and have some time for testing
-
feel confident that I won't burst out laughing at the idea of you being a key player
and
- haven't already received site mail from me
then please contact me either by site mail with your email address or just mail me at Antonia dot Polygon at gmail dot com.
It would be really nice to get one or two people who know both Antonia and WW well to give this a good shake, but so far the Venn diagram does not look very promising.
Otherwise, PhilC's expertise combined with my recklessness will have to suffice.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Poserpro2010, carregar cr2 Antonia 1.0 - sexy 20
NOVO VIDEO YOUTUBE
@odf: Sent you a message. Sorry for the delay, but it was a long day yesterday as the team won (but not high enough to be out of danger and so we had to discuss this issue in the pub...).
I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!
And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!
Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:
The Home Of The Living Dolls
LOL It's always the same: "That was bad game... they definitly earn too much money for so many misthrows!" "Yeah, you are right... but the outside right did a great game!" "Of course! And the goaly was almost perfect!!" "Yeah, it was a great game!" :laugh:
I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!
And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!
Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:
The Home Of The Living Dolls
Against Confusion.
I am talking about names and version numbers, and about standard Antonia-1.0.0, and the Wardrobe Wizard compatible version, which I call "Antonia-WW" in my own mind.
The core of my argument is this. That the changes between Antonia-1, and Antonia-WW, are not minor changes, but major ones. And that in reality these are effectively two different, all be it closely related, figures.
Therefore I feel that is a very bad policy to pretend, that Antonia-WW, is a minor update of Antonia 1.0.0.
It has been suggested that the WW version will be designated as Antonia-1.0.1. This is suggestive of a minor update, and I feel that if this comes to be, it will create a confusion in many users minds that will last for - and that I will continually have to be explaining - for years to come.
I see myself mostly using Antonia-1.0.0, and any descendants that she may have. I'm not arguing here against Antonia-WW (though I might in another context). What I'm arguing for, is the use of a naming convention that will avoid confusion, and for a clear, unambiguous split of Antonia into two separate streams. Antonia-1 on the one hand and Antonia-WW on the other.
I don't care what names are used, "Antonia-1", and "Antonia-WW", are just examples. But I am strongly against calling "Antonia-WW" by the name "Antonia-1.0.1".
The name "Antonia-1.0.1" would suggest that it is a minor update of Antonia-1.0.0. In the case of "Antonia-WW", nothing could be further from the truth. It is a different figure!
Can I justify the claim that we a re dealing with two different figures? I think I can!
Poses made for one figure will not work on the other without conversion, or some fix being applied. Conforming clothing made for one figure will not work on the other without conversion, or some fix being applied (if it contains a hip, hip2, or waist). Antonia-WW is fully compatible with Wardrobe Wizard, but is not fully compatible with the Poser walk Designer. Antonia-1 is fully compatible with the Walk Designer, but not fully (or at all?) compatible with Wardrobe Wizard.
I think I have said enough to show that these are in fact two different figures. If this is so, would it not be best to use naming conventions that clearly distinguishes them? Not "Antonia 1.0.0" and "Antonia 1.0.1", which misleadingly suggests that one is a minor update of the other.
I don't care what names are used. "Antonia 1.0.0" and "Antonia 2.0.0". "Antonia 1.0.0" and "Antonia-WW-1.0.0". "Antonia" and "Antoinette". "Antonia 1.0.0" and "Wanda 1.0.0". I don't care, so long as a clear distinction is made, that will avoid confusion. It's asking for trouble, in my view, to pretend one is a minor update of the other, that is just not the reality.
Lesbentley is right about to choose the name carefully to not answer a dozen of messages each day soon (and one each day in a year) about what's the difference between the figures and about what works with each of them.
But I have doubts about naming the WW2-ready figure "Wanda 1.0.0" because people may expect that there is a fish-morph included (to be exact they will expect an angel fish/skalar or at least some fins). And Antoninette should at least contain a removable-head-morph...
I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!
And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!
Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:
The Home Of The Living Dolls
I know we have not had any flame wars here indicating there has been a good mix of ADULTS and serious creatives and interested parties here, but that kind of commentary dear seems to belittle a teeny-iny bit, what LesBently is getting at and I have to agree with.
People like me for instance are already asking questions about what is what. When the WW version comes out (and I think it is great it will!) or if someone makes a DD of LipSynch version or the Texture Converter versions or whatever, because they don't all comply to the different ways Antonia will respond to each application due to her superio bend construction, it is best to avoid questions that will come down the pike to a minimum and good nomenclature is the ticket to do that.
Keep it simple and never assume the General Public will get it, when the General Public is usually clueless. We just want to mindlessly spin those dials and get something pretty we can brag about or get stroked about. Mindless....mindless....mindless. Cater to the GP as thogh we are third graders and you will have our infinite devotion.
Now where did I put my passifier!?................ ;)
If I understand things correctly, Antonia-WW will soon become just plain Antonia, the default version. The current Antonia 1.0.0 release may be kept around in some form, for Walk Designer and Puppet Master compatibility, at least. So it seems like we should call 1.0.1 "Antonia" and perhaps 1.0.0 can be called "Antonia-WD". For Walk Designer. :unsure:
(Aside: These new-ish reply editor boxes are the buggiest pieces of.... :cursing:)
I don't want to comment on anything like the formal release naming and numbering. Those are determined by odf. As far as what we call the figure variants, I guess that's more open. We can develop our own conventions. So I might start calling 1.0.1 Atonia-lo "Sgt. Fluffy" and 1.0.0 AntoniaA "Rumplestiltskin" or something. :lol:
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Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
Quote - EEEK!
Not good? 
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
I know we have not had any flame wars here indicating there has been a good mix of ADULTS and serious creatives and interested parties here, but that kind of commentary dear seems to belittle a teeny-iny bit, what LesBently is getting at and I have to agree with.
Yes, we are adults and we are serious - and exactly because we sit here the whole day through with our heads steaming because we ponder over this and try out that and then start over new (without complaining) we need a little childish party here and there to not have the feeling that this is like working in one of these supermarkets where the cashiers are not even allowed to talk with each other. In real life I would have passed my collegues a cheese-filled roll (or a Mettbroetchen, odf will still remember this) and a bottle of beer to keep the smiles on their faces but a here a childish joke must do...*
I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!
And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!
Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:
The Home Of The Living Dolls
Quote - It occurs to me that any clothing made (or converted) to work with the WW version isn't going to work on an WD version. So, unless Antonia's going for regular, nekkid strolls, wouldn't two versions be pointless?
The idea discussed in the Walk Designer thread (in the Poser Technical forum) is that "Antonia-WD" would be used to generate a walking pose. This can be saved to the library and converted for use with "Antonia-WW", using odf's actor-renaming script.
A bit of a hassle, but the WW-compatible Antonia doesn't function properly in the Walk Designer. :sad: Poser makes certain assumptions about the placement of the actor named "Hip" within the figure hierarchy.
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
Um..SaintFox...I feel stupid.
I commented without thinking. Of course you are right and I didn't realize you had made a funny to lighten things up a bit until I read LesBently's response. I went back and re-read yours and ODF's and realized just how tight my butt has been and how stupid my response read.
Sorry to you ODF and anyone else here who had to read my BS.
I will try and read the posts before allowing my rickety ole knees to jerk! :)
Quote - I know we have not had any flame wars here indicating there has been a good mix of ADULTS and serious creatives and interested parties here, but that kind of commentary dear seems to belittle a teeny-iny bit, what LesBently is getting at and I have to agree with.
Yes, we are adults and we are serious - and exactly because we sit here the whole day through with our heads steaming because we ponder over this and try out that and then start over new (without complaining) we need a little childish party here and there to not have the feeling that this is like working in one of these supermarkets where the cashiers are not even allowed to talk with each other. In real life I would have passed my collegues a cheese-filled roll (or a Mettbroetchen, odf will still remember this) and a bottle of beer to keep the smiles on their faces but a here a childish joke must do...*
I thought you said to name the classic version "Antonia-WW", but you actually said to name it "Antonia-WD". Which I think is good idea!
This is a tricky one. I'd love to retroactively make Antonia 1.0.0 never happen, or rename her to something like Antonia-WD. But I'm not the ministry of truth. She's out there under that name and number, and I can't take it back.
I don't want to rename 1.0.1 to something like Antonia-WW, or pick a completely new name, either, because that would make it look like she's some kind of derivative. In my mind, she will be the official Antonia, and the earlier versions will be historical artifacts or special tools for special purposes.
But I agree that a version number 1.0.1 would be very misleading. On the other hand, I think the changes don't grant to go all the way up to 2.0.0. It is, after all, still very much the same figure. A hip by any other name...
So at the moment, I'm thinking I might go with version number 1.2.0 for the official WW-compatible release.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Quote - This is a tricky one. I'd love to retroactively make Antonia 1.0.0 never happen, or rename her to something like Antonia-WD. But I'm not the ministry of truth. She's out there under that name and number, and I can't take it back.
Oh! That's the reason for the Orwell reference.
I thought we were discussing what we would call the releases among ourselves, in the community, for clarity and ease of understanding. Obviously Antonia 1.0 is out there under that name. Going forward, the primary use of the 1.0 figure could be (according to our exchanges in the other thread, at least) with the Walk Designer. So continuing to distrubute copies under the nickname of "Antonia-WD" was what I was suggesting. Or at least calling it that, informally.
But I may have missed the point. I tend to excell at that. :lol:
Quote - So at the moment, I'm thinking I might go with version number 1.2.0 for the official WW-compatible release.
Which doesn't sound bad. :laugh:
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
Quote - So continuing to distrubute copies under the nickname of "Antonia-WD" was what I was suggesting. Or at least calling it that, informally.
That's a good idea. I imagine at some point there will be a number of stripped down and/or modified Antonias for specific purposes, which would all come with their special support files and scripts.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
I have a question, if the WW Antonia becomes 1.2.0 or that type of thing, say the some in the community perfers the WD Antonia does that mean that WD can only be updated to 1.1.9? Or am I missing the point and only odf can create a Antonia versions so this is a ill informed question? I'm trying to think about linux and how that would work, seeing I don't think I've ever seen figure licence like this.
Oh and trying to confirm would Antoninette head be parented or conformed*?*
@GeneralNutt: If someone in the community wanted to continue developing the WD Antonia, I think common practice would be to choose a new name and independent version numbers for that fork. The name could be some variation on the original name, like Antonia-WD or Antoinette, or something completely new. That's completely up to the developers.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
I was under the impression that Antonia-WW was merely a "Support" figure to be using in conjunction with a renaming python script to get clothing converted to Antonia 1.0 following these steps:
1: Convert clothing to Antonia-WW
2: Run Renaming Script to rename all the body parts in new converted clothing to Antonia 1.0 conventions using the renaming Script.
3: Apply clothing to Antonia 1.0 and pose to your hearts content.
I never saw her as an update.
This would preclude the need for an Antonia WD. Antonia-WW being merely a tool for converting clothing to Antonia 1.0. It certainly seems a simpler more elegant solution considering walk designer and Poser want to do things to the hip that they want to do.
@SteveJax: That's one of the scenarios I considered. But then I decided that calling a hip a hip was more important than comforming to some silly Poser conventions or saving users from a tiny bit of confusion. Also, I'm fairly sure that Wardrobe Wizard is used by vastly more people than Walk Designer or Puppet Master.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
@GeneralNutt,
Quote - I have a question, if the WW Antonia becomes 1.2.0 or that type of thing, say the some in the community perfers the WD Antonia does that mean that WD can only be updated to 1.1.9? Or am I missing the point and only odf can create a Antonia versions so this is a ill informed question? I'm trying to think about linux and how that would work, seeing I don't think I've ever seen figure licence like this.
You have hit on one of the main reasons I raised this issue in the first place. I think we need a way to distinguish between an update of Antonia-1 and an update of Antonia-WW. Even if the classic Antonia becomes a Neanderthal, doomed to eventual extinction, out competed by the newer Antonia-WW, it would still be nice to to be able to distinguish which branch of the tree we were talking about, without having to write several paragraphs of explanation.
However, I take odf's point that there is nothing to stop me releasing an updated version of Antonia-1 under a new name, say "Antonia-WD" or "Antoinette". It just seemed more logical to my mind to make the name change (or at least a major version number change) in the same place where a major change took place in the figure itself.
But I can live with Antonia-1.2.0.
Quote - @SteveJax: That's one of the scenarios I considered. But then I decided that calling a hip a hip was more important than comforming to some silly Poser conventions or saving users from a tiny bit of confusion. Also, I'm fairly sure that Wardrobe Wizard is used by vastly more people than Walk Designer or Puppet Master.
Well if that's the case, the scenario is just reversed isn't it? Turning Antonia 1.0 into Antonia WD and then using a renaming python script to reverse any poses created with Walk Designer or Puppet Master? Either way I see it it's a simple 3 step process either for clothes or for Poses.
I know I will get slammed for this, but multiple versions are going to kill this figure and just add confusion. Its a fork in the road basically. The one path is constant updates and upgrading (which I have nothing against) Vs the general public wondering what is going on. Rather settle on one version, one that has everything, and do updates for that figure. Seperate the trial and experimental things from the ready to use catagory. Here is a simple analogy. I am from a gaming background so I'm going to explain it like this. People have dropped the PC gaming market for console gaming(bastards). Why? Because consoles are plug-in and play, easy to use. Pc's require constant upgrades and the right specs in order to work, which is daunting to a new user. That is how I see Antonia at the moment. We need to realise that people today just want instant gratification, (load figure, clothing, pose, and render) and if you cannot cater for that need, then you are going to end up just catering for yourself. I love Antonia, but I do not like all the confusion around her. End of the day ask yourself, who was Antonia made for? I'm just a little upset thats all. Because a lot of effort went into her. Because I want everybody to use her and see how great she is, but in order for that to happen this whole process needs some streamlining. Please dont hit me...
Fair enough.. and I know. Its just difficult. All I see is opportunity thats all. But I respect your wishes Odf, After all you already blessed me with an awesome figure to use.
Quote - I know I will get slammed for this, but multiple versions are going to kill this figure and just add confusion. Its a fork in the road basically. The one path is constant updates and upgrading (which I have nothing against) Vs the general public wondering what is going on.
No offense, but for a very long time, every DAZ figure has come out with the default version + a lo res version + a blank developement version. These are all "Support" figures. Why on earth would having a Walk Designer version for developing poses for the Official version kill Antonia? It's a support version. Many figures have come with support versions in the past and have been more than successful. In fact, I'd venture to say that any figure that hasn't come with support and development versions has had piss poor support.
@SteveJax: That's how I see the WD variant, as well. It would be a special tool, not a fork. If it were me, I'd probably cut it down to just the bare minimum one needs in order to work with the Walk Designer. Also, I'd definitely keep it separate from the main distro, so that people who downloaded it knew what it was for.
But people have been talking about forks, and I've said repeatedly that I'd welcome them. You can't dismiss that. I can't force anyone, but I'd hope that everyone who creates an alternative or experimental version would make it very clear that they are diverging from the main line. And I already have four CR2s in that main line, so I'm at my limit, as well. Any more variation, and I'd have to come up with some really clever ways of making Poser figures more modular. 
Anyway, I'm trying to keep the confusion to a reasonable level, but it is important to take into account that making a figure for end users has always been a secondary goal. Also, what really counts is not how much confusion we have for a short amount of time right now, but whether we'll be able to smooth things over so that someone who downloads the figure six months or a year from now does not get too confused.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
I don't dismiss the possibility of forks down the road, but I don't think that's the issue right now. Right now I think the issue is you have New user only minded people being directed to a thread that is entirely development oriented and getting confused by all the behind the scenes things normal end users aren't used to seeing. :blink:
There needs to be an "Antonia 1.0 is Here" thread where they can discuss using her and displaying their renders and not get side tracked by Walk Designer, Wardrobe Wizard, Puppet Master, Mutiple hips body part names etcetra discussions. Have that thread for announcing freebies and addons and what have you that end users will be interested in. :thumbupboth:
That's one thing the DAZ thread has going for it at the moment I think. 
Quote - There needs to be an "Antonia 1.0 is Here" thread where they can discuss using her and displaying their renders and not get side tracked by Walk Designer, Wardrobe Wizard, Puppet Master, Mutiple hips body part names etcetra discussions. Have that thread for announcing freebies and addons and what have you that end users will be interested in. :thumbupboth:
Good idea! Any volunteers? 
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
LOL! I've been too busy doing behind the scenes stuff for freebies with the MetaData builder to do any renders. The one render that's choaking my system at the moment is a Nursoda extravaganza piece. I also don't know how I would title it since "Freebie Announcement" threads are strictly kept in the freebie forum.
Antonia Renders Here? 
So, where do we stand with getting a revised CR2 with the INJ channels and renamed hips as an official release? I have an existing set of morphs I would like to get out but I am waiting on a final 1.0.1 (or whatever version you choose) official stamp. I will have to do a bunch of renaming in the INJ that Les made for me but I am waiting on official confirmation of the new names.
I tested my latest custom morph set, face and body morphs, with both versions.
The morphs work on both, the WW or the one with the hip and hip2 naming.
However, I am waiting until the final release before I upload anything.
Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.
Quote - I don't dismiss the possibility of forks down the road, but I don't think that's the issue right now. Right now I think the issue is you have New user only minded people being directed to a thread that is entirely development oriented and getting confused by all the behind the scenes things normal end users aren't used to seeing. :blink:
There needs to be an "Antonia 1.0 is Here" thread where they can discuss using her and displaying their renders and not get side tracked by Walk Designer, Wardrobe Wizard, Puppet Master, Mutiple hips body part names etcetra discussions. Have that thread for announcing freebies and addons and what have you that end users will be interested in. :thumbupboth:
That's one thing the DAZ thread has going for it at the moment I think.
Yeah but unfortunately the DAZ thread doesn't seem to get too much traffic. It sorta went into the usual coma. A fe people seemed to get fired up but I haven't seen any more response over there.
I started a thread over a Fairywylde too but did NOT get any response except from the webmasters there telling me I placed the thread in the wrong place and that it was moved!? :(
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Looks promising but not being an animator or knwing anything about Walk Designer, I have to ask: I see she walks with her knees together like she is holding her water is that intentional or just something in the way the figure works in Walk Designer? :o(