Hi all,

Finally, after few months of fixing the JCM's at the hip.  The Bikini Set for Antonia 1.2 is done!

There are few experiments I have done in this version.  There are 2 geometries and bones set within the same figure.  It seems to work in DAZ Studio but I'm not sure if it works in Poser.  Please test it and let me know the result.

For JCM's, I'm using another way to make it.  The JCM's are made by using Blender's mesh deform feature http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:Manual/Modifiers/Deform/MeshDeform.

Of course, I still have to go through the trial-and-error process.  I wish one day I can find a way to automate this process.

Download links:

http://www.sharecg.com/v/49628/browse/Poser/Bikini-Set-for-Antonia-1.2

or

http://www.bluecho4u3d.com/Antonia/database/sites/clothing_models.htm

Quote - EnglishBob,

Quote - So the question is, should I remap or leave it as it is?

I don' really feel qualified to voice an oppinion on whether to remap it or not. I suppose it depends to a large degree on wether BluEcho and RAMWolff have already invested much time in working on the orriginal mapping, or whther they are yet to start. I sugest you go with whatever they say.

I do have an oppinion on the diagonal versus horizontal placement of the map though. As bob1965 said you could rotate it 45, then rotate it back, but in my experience rotating seriously degrades the quality of an image. So if you do remap, I would go for a vertical placement.

You are correct in that rotating does degrade quality unless you are using a nondestructive editing environment.

Additionally Photoshop allows you to rotate the workspace, much like you would a sheet of paper, without affecting the image resolution.

The above points are the basis for my comment, I made the presumption of nondestructive editing tools being used.

As amy wrote that JCMs needed lots of time, I thought I would post again here that I a worked on an improved version of my morph loader. Despite SM did not yet reveal to me how an ideal morph has to be made, I think I got it a little better.

Maybe someone here would want to do some JCMs for antonia, and could help me in the final test. I know she bents almost perfectly but maybe there is one or two poses left to optimize :)

Cheers!

Quote - The Bikini Set for Antonia 1.2 is done!

Thanks Amy! I'll try that in Poser as soon as I can.

As far as the Flo hair mapping goes, I've decided to keep it as it is. I originally proposed it because I was thinking of rebuilding the mesh which would have broken the original mapping, but none of that seems entirely necessary.

Quote - I know she bents almost perfectly

I guess that depends on what you compare her to. Other Poser figures: yes. Actual humans: no. :laugh:

My perception is that the quality of the JCMs one can make is strongly limited by the available workflows. Before there were morph loaders that could do reverse deformation, JCMs were necessarily rather crude. For Antonia, I was fortunate enough to use a morph loader that could, but only worked with DAZ Studio, which due to the peculiarities of my development system I could not test the morphs in properly.

Had I had your morph loader then, things would have been much easier, and I'm sure I would have been able to make better JCMs. I'm still dreaming of a software that would let me to edit and test JCMs in one go, without ever changing programs, but that may not happen anytime soon.

Long story short: yes, I definitely agree that Antonia's bending could be improved, and if someone's up for trying, I'd be very excited to see the results.

But, but, but...I want her to bend like Zlata! :m_bouncy:

Just a quick test - the bikini works in Poser 7. I like that the bows can be tweaked to hang realistically. I had to scale Antonia's hip down slightly in this pose (to about 96%) to avoid poke-through - it's Saint Fox's Art pose 11 if you want to try it in D|S.

A quick render on the bikini.

As you can see in th epose there is a poke-thru but I fixed it by adjusting hip zscale to 105.

I've tried several poses and want to try a few more before I give a better report.

Okay, I found that with some poses it works great, while in others it needs a bit of tweaking on the hip zscale so there isn't any poke-thru.

But i have found this problem of poke-thru on many other conforming items for other models.

Personally I like the way the set behaves and am not worried over the little poke-thru area. :)

Loaded Flo Hair in DS3A. It follows the JCM's fine, but for some reason, it's not turning with the head.

Thank you all for testing it.  

Quote - I guess that depends on what you compare her to. Other Poser figures: yes. Actual humans: no. :laugh:

That's funny but it is true.

Quote - I'm still dreaming of a software that would let me to edit and test JCMs in one go, without ever changing programs, but that may not happen anytime soon.

This is my dream too.  I have recreated Antonia's bones into Blender's armature but I can't recreate the same deformation.   In order to simplify the JCM making, I created a cage for the clothing, i.e., a lower polygon count shape closer to the clothing, and used it as a figure.  Then, make it fit to Antonia.  Once it is posed to a desired angle, export the OBJ; import it to Blender, then by using the mesh deform tool to deform the clothing with the imported mesh.

I also experiment on making fine tune in DAZ Studio with the deformer, it is not easy.

In addition, I tried to make morph for the clothing, such as pull up/down, pull forward/backward.  It is easy to make but it is hard to use.

Someone may suggest to go dynamic clothing.  I think it is too slow at my laptop.

Quote - Maybe someone here would want to do some JCMs for antonia, and could help me in the final test. I know she bents almost perfectly but maybe there is one or two poses left to optimize :)

 @colorcurvature, I found the most difficult one is the mixed poses, for example, the poses require both spread and kick of the thigh.  I'm not sure how can I help you.

 BTW, does anyone use Miki 3?  I don't.  SM web site stated that it work with the latest version of Poser (I think it means Poser 8 or Poser Pro 2010) only and it is not working with DAZ Studio.  Maybe, there are some new features in Poser that is hidden to be found?

 

Quote - Loaded Flo Hair in DS3A. It follows the JCM's fine, but for some reason, it's not turning with the head.

Just not turning, or does it not tilt or nod either? D|S may perhaps be confused by the hair being an HR2 and yet conforming. Could you try making a copy of the HR2 file, changing its extension to .CR2, and putting it in the figures library?

A jcm without changing programs... Not easy :). And yes, optimizing twist and bend and sideside at once is very difficult. The corrections stack and can distort in sum. i pursued an approach where one would assign a .obj to a specific pose and the morph and erc are auto generated. But it needs many dummy parameters to make the erc code. Maybe the gen5 figure standard makes things a bit easier.

ThespiSis,

Quote - Loaded Flo Hair in DS3A. It follows the JCM's fine, but for some reason, it's not turning with the head.

Thanks for the info. I certainly looks like the hair is not conformed. Try rotating the BODY of the character, does the hair rotate with it then? If not then there is certainly something stopping it from conforming.

Bob said "D|S may perhaps be confused by the hair being an HR2 and yet conforming.". Perhaps he is right, but if hr2 files won't conform in D|S, I'm surprised I have not heard of it before. Can any D|S users amongst you let us know if conforming hr2 files usually work in D|S?

Does D|S report the hair as being conformed? In Poser if you select the hair, then from the Figure menu, select "Conform To", you can tell if the hair is conformed or not, if it is not conformed, in the "Conform To" box, it will say "None". If it is conformed, the "Conform To" box will say the name of the figure it is conformed to, eg "Antonia". I don't have D|S, but imagine there must be some equivalent way to check if an item is conformed in D|S.

It is conformed. It bends and follows every other movement except turning the head from side to side.

amy_aimei,

I just tried the "BikiniSetBottom_v1.2" in P6. None of the JCM was working. If you open the cr2 in a text editor, not Notepad, something decent (I use EditPad Lite), and go through each JCM channel in the BODY and remove the ":1" from the slaving code, it should then work as a super-conformer, and all the JCM should work automatically. For example, remove the red part in the code below.

            valueOpDeltaAdd
                Figure
                rThigh:1
                zrot
                deltaAddDelta 0.05

I have only just started looking at your files. I assume the same problem exists in the top. If I find anything else I will let you know.

(click image for larger view)

amy_aimei,

Once I got the JCM working, my first impression of the Bikini bottom is that the JCM works very well, except for one spot on the left buttock where there is pokethrough if the thigh kick goes beyond -23.0°. Even with the kick at -90.0° there was only that one spot of pokethrough on the buttock. Strangely it only seems to be happening on the left side.  With both -90.0° thigh kick, and 25.0° thigh spread there was also a little pokethrough at the back of the crotch, though this disappeared if the kick was reduced to -70.0°. It's asking quite a lot to expect the figure to handle both -90.0° and 25.0° spread, but I think it is well worth fixing the main pokethrough caused by the kick, as it detracts from what is otherwise a very good job. Seen from below in Flat Lined Display Style the problem vertex is quite evident (see image above).

Quote -  BTW, does anyone use Miki 3?  I don't.  SM web site stated that it work with the latest version of Poser (I think it means Poser 8 or Poser Pro 2010) only and it is not working with DAZ Studio.  Maybe, there are some new features in Poser that is hidden to be found?

 

Yes, I understand she is using 'containers' instead of fall-off spheres. Not sure if DS4 will support those.

Quote - As amy wrote that JCMs needed lots of time, I thought I would post again here that I a worked on an improved version of my morph loader.

Would be very useful, that. The old one is still around somewhere? I can not find it in the store.

It is "down for maintenance", but the new beta is ready and currently tested. I hope for some clarification about "the perfect morph" by SM, but that is a slow process, and so I decided to implement my best bet and update the tool right now. Enough waited. If new facts come up, I will make another update :). Like Cage uses to say, poser has its gremlins. A wise man, this Cage.

I hope that this is my last pure off topic post - but at least I have good news!

After training with the rollator the doctor was quite impressed about Leo's recovery - and teased him by saying: "And now I want to see this without holding on!". And when I sent an SMS yesterday to tell Leo that I am on my way he wrote back that he will be waiting on the entrance. And guess who came to meet me when I walked to the hospital? Without any wheelchair or rollator? Yep, Leo! And the staff of the intensive care unit stood behind the window, watching him. To make a long story short: He will come home tomorrow and then, after at most 14 days, will go to a rebab center in the neighbour town, maybe with being allowed to come home each weekend. Of course this is just a beginning and there is still a long way to go. But some last MRI and other investigations showed that there was no brain bleeding and this all gives us the hope that the life-endangering part lies behind us.

I was told to pass greets, kisses and hugs for all the prayers, good wishes and greetings - they made us both strong. For me it was the feeling of a kind of company that I have when sitting here alone, for Leo it was an achor that his life is not done and that there are still things that are fun and challenging, regardless how good he will recover.

I will keep you up to date if something special happens and be hopefully able to participate again in a short while.

Thanks for the good news, dear SaintFox, and my continued best wishes to both of you.

Saintfox

I have been remis in wishing you and Leo my best for a quick and complete recovery and a continued fruitful loving life. I was told this by someone at a Hospice facility I was forced in the end to place my dear mother in a week before her passing.

"Life is all about dying and death is all about eternal life".

A wonderful quote to live by if you are dealing with a death situation. What it does not include are the painful frightening steps in between when illness prevails and fills our hearts and minds with despair and doubts and regrets and fear of what lies ahead.

I hope you have both gotten past that point now as he gets better. May this be a painful reminder to both of you as it was for me, that life is precious and each day that passes we should all remember to appreciate what we have and not take anything we do in our day to day passage, for granted. Live life for the moment with all the joy we can muster.

Joy to you and Leo!

That's wonderful news SaintFox! Now on to that speedy recovery!

Thank you for that wonderful news, Saintfox.

I'll keep him in my prayers that he recover fully soon. :)

> Quote - **ThespiSis**, > > > Quote - Loaded Flo Hair in DS3A. It follows the JCM's fine, but for some reason, it's not turning with the head. > > > > Thanks for the info. I certainly looks like the hair is not conformed. Try rotating the BODY of the character, does the hair rotate with it then? If not then there is certainly something stopping it from conforming. > > Bob said "*D|S may perhaps be confused by the hair being an HR2 and yet conforming.*". Perhaps he is right, but if hr2 files won't conform in D|S, I'm surprised I have not heard of it before. Can any D|S users amongst you let us know if conforming hr2 files usually work in D|S? > > Does D|S report the hair as being conformed? In Poser if you select the hair, then from the Figure menu, select "Conform To", you can tell if the hair is conformed or not, if it is ***not*** conformed, in the "Conform To" box, it will say "None". If it ***is*** conformed, the "Conform To" box will say the name of the figure it is conformed to, eg "Antonia". I don't have D|S, but imagine there must be some equivalent way to check if an item is conformed in D|S.

 

Changing the extension to .cr2 and adjusting the falloff zones solves the DS issues and it still works the same in Poser.

 

Leo,

As you are going home for a while, I guess you will have access to a PC, and be able to read this for yourself, so this time I will address you directly, rather than going through SaintFox.

I'm sure I speak for many who participate in this thread, when I say you have been in our thoughts, and that we have been hoping that things turn out well for you. It was great news to hear that you are on your feet again, and that your recovery has been going well. I also realise that leaving hospital is just the start of your recovery, there may still be a hard slog ahead in rehab. Everything that I have heard about you, leads me to believe that you will face that challenge with energy and determination. My best wishes continue to go with you.

Les.

Thanks a lot to you all, and as you, Shante, mention it: It's the death that makes life so precious - on the other hand I saw people in hospital longing for being allowed to die while others passed away before they where able to taste life in all it's facettes. The catastrophy in Japan that where my second grief during this time made me think the same.

But however the big plan may be: At least we where approved in our feeling that we really belong together as now each of us had a bad time while being afraid to loose his dearest companion (don't worry, I played my role of an intensive patient long ago)!

@Les: I will show the whole part you talk about to Leo as soon as he can bear the sentimental feelings he will get (at least he is still a man!) but you have the right impression: Call him a blockhead with an iron will LOL I even brought him a little bouquet I saw because I thought it was made exactly for him: It contained red roses, orange gerbera and three blue thistles. And yes, it where the thistles that made me buy it because the nurses had a post-it on his clinic record saying: Caution! Snappy!!

Not that he was mean to them but he refused to be treated like an under-age.

bob1965,

Thanks Bob. I thought I was making things simpler and more consistant with normal practice by putting the hair in the Hair library, but if that is causing problems in D|S, I guess I had better change to using a cr2 in the figures library.

Can you give me a hint as to what way you had to change the falloff zones to get it working in D|S?

Quote - It contained red roses, orange gerbera and three blue thistles. And yes, it where the thistles that made me buy it because the nurses had a post-it on his clinic record saying: Caution! Snappy!!

Not that he was mean to them but he refused to be treated like an under-age.

I'm a terrible patient! LOL! I was in the healthcare field in college as a Nurses Aide so I know what good care is compared to bad care and won't settle for less.

Quote - bob1965,

Thanks Bob. I thought I was making things simpler and more consistant with normal practice by putting the hair in the Hair library, but if that is causing problems in D|S, I guess I had better change to using a cr2 in the figures library.

Can you give me a hint as to what way you had to change the falloff zones to get it working in D|S?

I'll e-mail you the .cr2, give me a few. You'll need to fine tune the fall-off as I just did a rough test.

I took a bit of time off and on yesterday and today to do one Flo Hair texture.

Here s an image with three views of the hair.

What do you think?

I'll try to do a couple more soon and they will go to the freee site when finished. )

odf, should we start a new thread for the Flo Hair items or, since they're for Antonia, post here?

Quote - odf, should we start a new thread for the Flo Hair items or, since they're for Antonia, post here?

I'd say let's see how the Flo Hair topic develops. If there's a lot of continued interest, a new thread may be useful, but so far I see no reason not to discuss it here.

Looking good BluEcho!

SaintFox: thank you for the update ... you are both in my thoughts.

Quote - (click image for larger view)

amy_aimei,

Once I got the JCM working, my first impression of the Bikini bottom is that the JCM works very well, except for one spot on the left buttock where there is pokethrough if the thigh kick goes beyond -23.0°. Even with the kick at -90.0° there was only that one spot of pokethrough on the buttock. Strangely it only seems to be happening on the left side.  With both -90.0° thigh kick, and 25.0° thigh spread there was also a little pokethrough at the back of the crotch, though this disappeared if the kick was reduced to -70.0°. It's asking quite a lot to expect the figure to handle both -90.0° and 25.0° spread, but I think it is well worth fixing the main pokethrough caused by the kick, as it detracts from what is otherwise a very good job. Seen from below in Flat Lined Display Style the problem vertex is quite evident (see image above).

 

lesbentley,

Thank you for testing it in Poser and giving me valuable feedbacks.  I tried the same in DAZ Studio.   This is the result with the lThigh set to kick at -90° and spread at 30°.

There is a pokethrough, but I can't reproduce the one at the buttock.  In fact, the right side JCM's are mirrored from the left side.  That's strange!

I'm working on the updates based on your findings and I think it will be good to find a way to create a JCM that can handle both kick and spread.  Currently, I can make JCM with rotation of one joint axis only.  It works with both kick and spread is by luck and some fine tunings I did by guessing.

The following image is the result with the lThigh set to kick at -60° and spread at 60°, which is when both JCM-lThighKick and JCM-lThighSpread at 100% (1.0).

There is a major pokethrough at the bottom part of the mesh.  There are some vertices do not have a smooth transformation (see the vertices pointed by the arrows).

Is there any way we can make JCM for rotations of 2 joint axes?

Hello folks, sorry, a not-so-good update: Leo has to stay. His blood is too thick at the moment and he needs more medication and monitoring. The invetigations yesterday seemed to be very exhausting and so the doctors (and we) decided for safety first. Of course he is disapointed (and I am as well, yes...) but on the other hand he is pretty flexible, asked for fresh t-shirts and razorblades as he wants a shave and new batteries for the MP3-player (going to bed without "Enter Sandman" and waking up without Bach's "Air" seems to be impossible for him at the moment). I am away now, buying what he needs and then visit him. I will keep you up to date as you are used to.

Oh dear ... but better be safe!

Would some Poser user please do the following experiment for me. Load and conform amy_aimei's BikiniSetBottom_v1.2 to Antonia. Save the scene as a pz3, then open the saved scene. Do you notice anything unusual?

ok, that's weird.....looking at the saved pz3 in cr2editor it doesn't look healthy there either, too many figures & cameras.  verry interesting. 

...and it's the same if you save unconformed & reopen.

 

edited to add: nevermind about the cr2 looking funny--i just looked at another one & it shows the same odd extra cams & figures, so i guess that's a normal PP2010 thing.

jancory,

You don't notice anything strange when you reopen the pz3 in Poser?

yes, only the strings are there.

Antonia seems to be too advances for conforming clothes :(

At least for my skills and patience.

 

I''ve tried create some dynamic clothes - pants undies etc. and... she is too advances again. Her genital area has so many polygons that dynamic calculation is very long and results are unpredictable. Still trying.

 

SaintFox I keep my finger crossed. Always look at bright side of life. I'm sure that Leo has less wrikles today ;)**
**

Thanks jancory. That's the same result I am getting in P6. Which version of Poser are you using?

The bikini bottom uses two separate obj files, one for the bikini itself and another one for the bows. Seems poser does not like that. On a save, Poser only writes one pair of 'figureResFile' lines, those for the bows, it drops the 'figureResFile' lines for the main part of the bikini.

I can see what Aimy was trying to do here, keeping the bows as a separate obj, so they could be reused with different figures. It would be a very good idea, if it worked in Poser, but it does not. Presumably it does work in D|S.

Solutions? The bows could be integrated into the main obj file. Or the bows could be made a separate figure in the same cr2, parented to the bikini. This last may be the best idea, as it preserves the original intent of having the bows reusable.

i use PP2010, les.  i'm guessing it's the separate objects, too. 

Quote - Solutions? The bows could be integrated into the main obj file. Or the bows could be made a separate figure in the same cr2, parented to the bikini. This last may be the best idea, as it preserves the original intent of having the bows reusable.

Separate actors might be better.  Poser can use objFileGeom to load the geometries for separate actors, without any problem.

On the other hand, how are they set up now?  Are they separate actors, or merged in with the main body parts?  A solution would have to consider how morphs and vertex counts would be affected....  :unsure:

It's an interesting approach being used.  A pity it doesn't work in Poser.

Cage,

Quote - Separate actors might be better.  Poser can use objFileGeom to load the geometries for separate actors, without any problem.

Yes that is another option, and perhaps a better one. At the moment the bows are a multi-grouped obj with 7 parts (used twice, once for R, once for L). To do it that way the bow would need to be split into 7 obj files. In the cr2, you would then load the separate bits of geometry something like this:

actor lKnotCenter:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:AmyAimei:Accessories:KnotCenter.obj
    }
actor lKnotBowR:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:props:KnotStringL.obj
    }
Etc.

The rest of the file would remain the same. One disadvantage of doing it that way, rather than as a separate figure in the same cr2, would be that if you wanted to hide the bows, you would need to hide 14 separate parts, so it would need a pose to hide the bows, or make them transparent. A separate figure makes it easier to hide the bows, or remove them entirely by deleting the figure, but also clutters up the menu, and gives you an extra figure to delete if you want to remove the bikini.

I am curious here. I parent obj files to Cr2 files all the time and save in library to use again and have never had any problems since Poser 4. I am doing same thing in Poser 7 and have not "YET" seen any problems. Why is this a problem.

Can't the object bow parrts be reset-up as a single obj file with perhaps different mapping to reduce file instancing and size? Would that help?

Forgive me here I know just enough to be a pain in the heinie and in any other place dangerous but I am trying to understand this problem.