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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 27 5:12 pm)
Subject: Anyone Have Opinions on Poser Photobox?
My advice is to learn how to make your own lights. There is no such thing as "one light set fits all scenes." While IDL can look great, more often than not it ends up looking quite foney. I looked at the image examples for photobox and some of them just don't seem realistic too me. Aside for a serious lack of noticable shadows, I can't put my finger on what I don't like about some of them. The word "plastic" seems to come to mind.
Making your own lights allows for so much freedom and diversity. You can tailor your lights to give you lighting fitting for your unique scene.
Yes, there is a learning curve when it comes to learning lights. But learning lights in Poser 6 and up is so much easier than it was in Poser 5 where you needed upwards of 20 lights to achieve passable lighting. In Poser 6 and up you can do it with as little as 3. Some can manage with 1 light, but I've never been able to achieve anything nice with a single light. Usually I use 5 lights, but have used as few as 3 (2 IBL and 1 Spot).
When I set my mind to learning lights in Poser 6, I spent a good 6 months making images and focusing all of my efforts on the lights. As a result I now make my own lights for my images. I have a runtime full of light sets that I rarely use, and when I do use one, I use it as a starting point and tweak it to fit my needs for the image I'm using them in.
So really, the choice to buy is up to you. However, I strongly recommend taking time to learn lighting. I'm a real dummy when it comes to computers and programs, so if I can learn lights, anyone can.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
As Acadia's saying - like any flavor of canned lighting setup, if you never bother to learn to do it yourself then you're restricted to whatever setups you buy. If you're okay being limited that way, then great :)
Quote - As Acadia's saying - like any flavor of canned lighting setup, if you never bother to learn to do it yourself then you're restricted to whatever setups you buy. If you're okay being limited that way, then great :)
I don't think there's necessarily anything "wrong" with canned lights, especially if you're trying to do high quality for things like promos and need good quality lighting.
Of course, it's superior to know how to get the same thing, but there's not a thing wrong with buying them to save time.
Would you also require everyone to learn how to make their own clothing?
There's quite the place for "canned" lights, just like there is a place for "canned" props & clothing.
Quote - I don't think you read what I wrote.
I did read it, and didn't disagree with you. Just pointed out that there are instances when "canned" stuff is appropriate.
Lights are especially hard to grasp and the one thing that discourages newbies from progressing further with 3D. And, one can learn a lot from looking at a "canned" lighting set.
Quote - > Quote - Would you also require everyone to learn how to make their own clothing?
For the sake of economy...perhaps. LOL I save myself so much money now that I can make my own.
Laurie
ROFL, given what's coming with Poser 2012, it might not be that far a stretch that lots more folks make their own.
From Marvelous Designer-->Poser Cloth Room-->weightmapping and you're pretty much done.
Quote - the above two imgs look too dark on my monitor. they lack dynamic range IMVHO. maybe try rendering it with tonemapping.
I just did quick renders for the thread. Added nothing so that anyone with questions could see the results.
I thought I was being helpful.
Not to worry, I won't make that mistake again.
G3d, don't take it personally. Many users are very skeptical about 'canned' light sets in general. You invest into a set which is promoted to be the end all of every set available, only to have it not deliver as initially promised. A couple of very quick renders do not impress everyone, and to me, the image posts do not show much difference between each other. It would be worth experimenting with the tool further to determine it's maximum potential, considering it's put out by MindVision, a major Poser vendor in years past.
Quote - G3d, don't take it personally. Many users are very skeptical about 'canned' light sets in general. You invest into a set which is promoted to be the end all of every set available, only to have it not deliver as initially promised. A couple of very quick renders do not impress everyone, and to me, the image posts do not show much difference between each other. It would be worth experimenting with the tool further to determine it's maximum potential, considering it's put out by MindVision, a major Poser vendor in years past.
I didn't take it personally, but I think the general attitude in this thread is awful. I have no clue if it's politics or what, but it still sucks.
I don't see much difference between the 2 renders either. But that wasn't my point. My purpose was to post unedited renders to help the OP make up their mind about the product since I had already purchased it.
I always test lights with AA characters since they are so hard to light well. And, frankly, given that issue, I think PhotoBox did an excellent job.
Attached Link: PhotoBox Manual
As there seems to be a lot of confusion and prejudice building up around this product I shall attempt to explain what this product is exactly as I seem to have done not such a good job on the product page.PhotoBox is not a 'canned lightset' as the popular term seems to be. It's not a box with lights as our friend Laurie cleverly mentioned, and to add to the list it's also not a copy of IDL Studio sold at Runtime DNA.
PhotoBox is a carefully designed system to manipulate the indirect lighting in Poser 8, Poser Pro 2010, Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012, something that can't be done by Poser on it's own. You can use it as a standalone render tool or use it with additional lights to meet your goal.
Additionally I invite you to look at the manual included with the set via the attached link.
"It's not a box with lights as our friend Laurie cleverly mentioned, "
so it's not a poser version of a Photographers Light Box ? strange. looking at a light box I was able to duplicate the results - both of said product, (phoptobox) and said real world light box in about 5 minutes.... using the principals of the real world light box. which is, of course, a box with lights.
Oh no, my ego is fully in tact, this was just a classic "put your money where your mouth is"
You and many, many other forum dwellers are one of the reasons why I left Renderosity.
It's about YOUR ego, not mine.
The only two people in this thread properly answering the initial question are Glitterati3D and anupaum as they actually purchased the product and therefor can give an actual opinion.
You are just here because you want to make yourself look important and smart.
Now, now boys :) Please don't fight/argue.
MindVision, I hope your product sells well, but I have always believed that there is no light set that fits every single scene, and have strongly advocated for the past 3 or 4 years for people to learn how to do their own lighting in order to tailor lights for their specific scenes.
As I said in my earlier post, IDL has merit and can look good, in some cases. But in others it doesn't look real at all.
Looking at your manual, the portraits look very nice!! But the bottom images of the piano and girl in chair, the lighting looks to "well rounded" coming at the expense of the shadows, which to me doesn't make the image look natural at all. But that is my opinion and I'm sure others will have theirs.
For some using IDL light boxes with preset lights is a viable option, but I still advocate that they should continue on their journey to learn lights instead of solely relying on premade ones.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
With all do respect Acadia, the question posted was about PhotoBox, not your personal opinion on lighting in general.
Then there is a lot of talk about "realism" and "natural", shadows and whatnots.
Please do present us with the best image from your own gallery, which I assume did not use any "canned lights" that have non of the issues you so eagerly are displaying here.
Hon, I never claimed I was perfect or a guru :) And I'll be the first to admit that I still have things to learn. In fact, we all continue to learn until the day we die. That's how we grow. That is how you got to the point of being able to make clothing, props, textures and your photobox, isn't it? By taking time to learn new things and hone your skills along the way?
I'm not seeking an arguement with you. My gallery is open to public viewing. If you want to view it, it's at this link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=Acadia
None of them are perfect in any way. But they do show my growth in knowledge through the years. If you have any constructive criticism to offer about any of them, I would be glad to hear it so that I can continue to improve my skills.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Quote - Please do present us with the best image from your own gallery, which I assume did not use any "canned lights" that have non of the issues you so eagerly are displaying here.
Well gosh, you're welcome to look in mine and pick for faults I guess.
I liked the most recent one in acadia's gallery. however, it appeared to use depth-mapped lites, which can be tricky to get good shadows IMVHO. does photobox have all of 'em set to ray-trace?
p.s. pj uses special sets of lites, hence his poser renders look like vue or c4d in many cases IMVHO. in my gallery, the most recent one used the canned set of lites that come with the e.d. warehouse.
My lights are not special, they're typically two point lights although I often vary it. There is really nothing tricky going on there, I just read the manual and learned how to operate the renderer.
Quote - I liked the most recent one in acadia's gallery. however, it appeared to use depth-mapped lites, which can be tricky to get good shadows IMVHO.
Thanks. Three infinite lights using depth map shadows with a blur radius of 2 and a min bias of 0.8
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Walking into this discussion way late - as per usual - but is there any provision in Photobox for renderer gamma correction?
<<hoping I'm not opening a can of worms>>
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
*"<<hoping I'm not opening a can of worms>>" *
More like poking them with a stick maybe :-)
Nice renders MindVision - though I'm sure it doesn't do a nice curry and I simply must have my curry or I get all out of sorts. I'd try it but I mainly use Vue with it's beautiful atmosphere preset... OMG, I'm using canned stuff! This is just like the time I showed up at that biker meeting on my moped - embarassing, dude!
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
I purchased Photobox a few weeks ago and have been using it to do my commercial renders. It's not really canned lighting as there is actually only one light (for specularity). The rest of the illumination comes from the box itself and the use of the ambient value on various sections of the box interior. For the renders I do I prefer IDL and the Photobox makes the IDL results very predictable for me and since I have limited time to complete a render I don't like tinkering around with light settings more than I have to.
Can I get more stunning results with something like RSP8? Yep, but it just takes longer to tweak it and I rarely can afford to invest more time into it getting it "just right".
I'm continuing to watch the expansions for Photobox as I'd like to see the options expanded and for there to be a larger version as the current version gets pretty tight.
The way I look at it, this is just another tool to draw upon out of a toolbox of many tools. It serves a purpose but can't, and shouldn't, attempt to fill them all (with respect to scene lighting).
"... is there any provision in Photobox for renderer gamma correction?"
So, I guess that's a no, then?
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
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http://www.yurdigital.com/catalog/1225-poser-photobox
Has anyone used it? Good, bad...?