Hi This is a repost of some info I posted in a previous thread:

On the Issue of Piracy of Poser/Daz content
There is a Financial incentive for the pirates

you need to know how software/ Content online  piracy truly works.
two years ago one of my buyers at renderosity informed that one of my older (now retired )BVH
products for M2/V2 was being "shared"
and gave me a link to the site where it was posted
having no silly delusions about actually stopping it
I went to the site out of curiousity and traveled deep into the "Rabbit hole" of the Digital content piracy Culture
and here is the reality:
the people responsible for sharing our products are initially are Almost always "Legal buyers"

1)They buy your product from DAZ/rosity etc
for Say $15-30 dollars.

1. They Submit it to their warez forum admins for "validation"
   where it is checked for viruses,Missing files. and in the case of software programs for a serial or  "KRAK instructions"

2. the post gets "Published" in the Forums with your actual product description and promo pics and the feeding frenzy begins
   every downloader is forced to go offsite to various Ad laden File hosting sites that pay members for generating page views .

1. once you start generating income from your page view hosting sites your "business" becomes self funded
   and you have money to go buy MORE popular DAZ content as soon as it released and the sharing process repeats.

Of course you have second tier "reuploaders" who only download other peoples shares an rehost/reshare them at other sites to milk what little page view income they can get before everyone already has their copy.
and that also takes care of replacing the rare files that actually get pulled
from a Copyright Complaint

Now because of the GLUT in the DAZ/ poser content market our products have the Shelf life of a shrimp Salad at fourth of July
Picnic in 90 degree weather and the quicker DAZ Floods the Market with this repetitive stuff
the faster it get purchased ( at "platinum Club" prices)
and Shared.
Sadly some of the very customers who praise your work here in these  forums ("Awesome release Dude!!! Im off to buy right now!!"),

are the main ones Sharing them to get page view revenue

People like Sanctumart Knew this which might account for some of his  Apparent Disdain for these forum "communities"

These File sharing people have "request" forums "legacy" content sections.
Mac only sections,Full movie DVD Rips, Website templates, high end Stock images and of course Music ,
In fact you can even subscribe to a daily newsletter informing you of new uploads and there are thousands of such file hosting services all over the planet.

so there is no point IMHO in even Embarking on some noble "Campaign" to get the "pirates" IP addreses etc. for such Endeavours are most certainly Folly and will not make a dent in this activity.

Cheers

Quote -

so there is no point IMHO in even Embarking on some noble "Campaign" to get the "pirates" IP addreses etc. for such Endeavours are most certainly Folly and will not make a dent in this activity.

Cheers

Actually through the work of a vendor "Profotograf", and a number of product developers he encouraged to consistantly clear out their products from a particularly large warez site, resulted in the site eventually closing down.

We are not convinced that it is completely the actions of the vendors involved that the site was taken down...but I am sure the hard work of those dedicated vendors contributed greatly to its closure.

So yes...dents can be made in those pirate dens.

It would be nice if vendors had the financial resources to prosecture the violators, that would be the only thing that could eventually slow the spread of this act.

I still think a lot of the people they sell to would never buy anything.  But yes, agreed it is very very bad.

Love esther

Quote -
People like Sanctumart Knew this which might account for some of his  Apparent Disdain for these forum "communities"

Cheers

Well, Mich*el's SOLE purpose in selling products was EXACTLY as he mentioned on all his adverts.  He had some overflow/spare parts if you will, from various commercial CG productions and he decided to "poserize" them for profit. 

At that time (2004), he made quite a fair amount of money on his products justifying the time and expense.  He tried again in 2008 with Horde and only NOW (this year) has he recovered the costs for development.  One issue for him WAS piracy.  He simply got tired of seeing his stuff ripped off, by just about everyone. 

There were a fair number of people here and elsewhere using his products in their own commercial projects, adverts, logos, etc.  Despite the hot debate about his EULA over at Daz, he has explicity stated in the forums that they are for NON-commercial use ONLY.  Users just didn't want to get that, ergo he got tired of trying to convince them. 

As to the forums, he was first upset that his RDL7 line received so much negative feedback when he refused to split up the package.  Secondly, the sheer time and effort required to poserize models like Horde and GRIM was enormous, so it's no longer economically viable for him to be in the poser market.  Finally, he's used to the rather cold economics of industry.  A client commissions a project under contract, pays the approx 30-40%, he creates it, client pays rest on completion, delivery is made...this is the REAL world. 

Most Daz and Poserites expect to "connect" with their vendors in some emotional way.  Ask any vendor about this, they will tell you how important forum marketing truly is... that's the bottom line in a hobbyist community. That's why it hurts them, when some of those very people who praise their products (as Wolf rightly mentioned) are the ones purchasing and uploading them to these warez sites. Daz's 30 day, money-back guarentee doesn't help the situation.  It basically allows a small groups of people to cycle through buying, torrenting, and returning products while generating advertising profits of their own on these very sites.

He had no interest in trying to navigate through all this to make less and less money, and as times changed so did the logic of staying in this market. His original intent was to supply content at reasonable prices, make some money, and maybe have some fun in the process trying something new.  When that profit and enjoyment evaporated, he moved on.

How do I know this?  I'm one of his clients on a private project and have been for the last 2 years.  We just talked about this very issue a few days ago, when I asked him why he shut down his site.

Concerning his old site, for those curious, it was just breaking even with sales and when Bondware asked him to renew, he just didn't have the time at present and said no.  It may come back, it may not, but his days of producing poser content are indeed over. A real shame, you should see what he's making now...

Thank you sir for this insider info I am archiving your post for reference

"Most Daz and Poserites expect to "connect" with their vendors in some emotional way.  Ask any vendor about this, they will tell you how important forum marketing truly is"

Yes sir!!!Not to Start the Flaming but you are Expected to be in the forums playing "kissy face "with the Massses  if you sell at DAZ
Over there  it is not enough if your products are top notch
in that "Culture" over there  they have to Like you "personally"

I will never forget when Michael said in his original Horde promo ad copy:
-paraphrasing-

"Dont waste  your money on comical attempts by others to produce something like it "(Hoarde)

*Some of the nattering naybob, coffee clutch, drama queens in the DAZ forums
Assumed he was disparaging a certain Cartoonish Scooby Doo looking  "werewolf" figure
by a certain beloved  Daz Merchant .
based on this assumption they all made melodramatic Sworn vows to never purchase anything from him and to this day many of them have a pavlovian reaction to the mere mention of Sanctumart and issue all kinds of  false dire warnings about lawsuits if you post a render in your little online gallery with one of his models.

It is a shame that quality like that will like never be seen in these markets again.

P.s. I forgot about the DAZ 30 day money back policy so actually your startup cost can  be ZERO if you are in the File sharing /page view revenue business.

Cheers

I should probably add, before the old issues over EULA come up, that if there were any doubts as to right of usage based on what was said in the forums about it or the old website for that matter, those who contacted him directly (by phone, when his old number was still active), all got the same answer.  Non-commercial use ONLY. 

I was hoping to get him to repurpose some of his content for my needs, but was told that it's not possible.  GRIM for example, is co-owned by SONY and himself.  It was used in the poster promos for the scifi movie Screamers: The Hunting.

Not to dig up an old (potentially sore) subject for some and sorry for the long, almost OT post, but this was meant more for people who might be curious about vendors like these and why they've stopped making content for poser/daz.

Quote - Thank you sir for this insider info I am archiving your post for reference

Your quite welcome.  I would appreciate not linking to my post though, every time a "Where is S.A now" thread comes up." especially over at Daz so I don't have to be nagged with QQ by fanatics or those very same drama queens lol. It's truly amazing how some people froth at the mouth or act in this bizarre love/hate way when it comes to his work. That era is over. Time to move on.

Attached Link: Sanctum Art EULA via Wayback Machine

Clause 5 from SA's EULA:

5. You may copyright and distribute rendered still or animated images derived from the Restricted Content without restriction or royalty to SANCTUM ART provided you do not violate other clauses of this agreement.

Clause 6 from SA's EULA:

6. You may NOT copyright and distribute rendered still or animated images created to produce trademarks or logotypes for yours or any other Third-party comercial products. All SANCTUM ART'S products are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sanctum Art, INC.

If you wanted to use his items in your own commercial renders you were fine to do so, so long as you weren't using them to make logos or trademarks, in which case you were then breaking copyright. Selling a render of Horde in a werewolf picture was fine, selling it as a logo, for example for a company called, let's say 'Wolfs Head Productions' (and apologies if there is a company called that, it's the first thing that rolled off my keyboard as an example), would have been against the EULA.

Quote - > Quote -

 There were a fair number of people here and elsewhere using his products in their own commercial projects, adverts, logos, etc.  Despite the hot debate about his EULA over at Daz, he has explicity stated in the forums that they are for NON-commercial use ONLY.  Users just didn't want to get that, ergo he got tired of trying to convince them. 

 

Clause 5 from SA's EULA:

5. You may copyright and distribute rendered still or animated images derived from the Restricted Content without restriction or royalty to SANCTUM ART provided you do not violate other clauses of this agreement.

Clause 6 from SA's EULA:

6. You may NOT copyright and distribute rendered still or animated images created to produce trademarks or logotypes for yours or any other Third-party comercial products. All SANCTUM ART'S products are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sanctum Art, INC.

If you wanted to use his items in your own commercial renders you were fine to do so, so long as you weren't using them to make logos or trademarks, in which case you were then breaking copyright. Selling a render of Horde in a werewolf picture was fine, selling it as a logo, for example for a company called, let's say 'Wolfs Head Productions' (and apologies if there is a company called that, it's the first thing that rolled off my keyboard as an example), would have been against the EULA.

Yes, this has been beaten to death over at Daz, in many MANY threads.  It's old news now, as is his site.  His stuff is so disseminated now, it really doesn't matter much anymore.  People are going do what they're going to do. 

"I would appreciate not linking to my post though, every time a "Where is S.A now" thread comes up." especially over at Daz so I don't have to be nagged with QQ by fanatics or those very same drama queens lol."

Fair enough sir
if indeed I have occasion to be in another Micheal Rak/Santumart bashing thread
I will simply quote you unnamed as "a person working with Micheal on a NON poser /DAZ Commercial project told me the following".

Cheers

I stopped buying and downloading "free" comtent with restictive EULA's a long time ago. It is certainly the right of the creator to use such restrictions, but I have almost 1 T-byte of runtimes, and I can't keep up with stuff like that. And, I don't have to. There are plenty of vendors with quality products, and generous community members that don't place nit-picky restrictions on content.

I buy or keep content that can be used for any render, or that is a merchant resource. I can't make free items, so the lack of things that can be used to make free stuff is no porblem to me yet.

lmk

Quote - "I would appreciate not linking to my post though, every time a "Where is S.A now" thread comes up." especially over at Daz so I don't have to be nagged with QQ by fanatics or those very same drama queens lol."

Fair enough sir
if indeed I have occasion to be in another Micheal Rak/Santumart bashing thread
I will simply quote you unnamed as "a person working with Micheal on a NON poser /DAZ Commercial project told me the following".

Cheers

Much appreciated, Wolf359.  It is a loss to the community that vendors such as these, have left.  I've asked if he would ever consider returning to the poser market, and he hasnt ruled it out entirely, but the economics would again have to be worth it for him.

During one of our chats on the daz mentality, I mentioned your name as being both ardent supporter and highly entertaining with your doses of much needed reality to dazites in these S.A threads.  He remembered you right away, and was always thankful for your patronage and support of his products. 

BTW: I sent him a link to your Vimeo video and web comic on fractional banking using his S.A kitty, which we both found to be an excellent synopsis on the sad state of economic affairs worldwide.

I agree lkendall.

It worries me that new users of poser are going to have a lot of stuff to sort through once they understand the same things we do about free stuff and restrictions.

I only hope the new users will use external runtimes so it will be easier for them to delete one day.

Love esther

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Here is something for compatability.   :)

For whatever it's worth, I think I've managed to approximate a Poser-compatible version of Genesis with my morphing projects.  For example, all of these four figures are based on V4.  I'm not sure if it's perfect yet, but the main functionality is in place and working pretty well!  This one also allows you to control skin tone, eye color, etc. with dial parameters, which is one feature Genesis doesn't have!

Iuvenis_Scriptor - that looks awesome!!!!

Quote - Iuvenis_Scriptor - that looks awesome!!!!

Not exactly the word I'd use....

Quote - Not exactly the word I'd use....

Nor would I sir....nor would I

Cheers

LOL!  Am I s'posed to guess which word you would use?  If there's any way I can improve it, please feel free to enlighten me.

I love it.  The shapes look just right to me.

Love esther