I mean.. get your brollies ready!! 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2040092/Take-cover--Falling-satellite-land-time-tomorrow--strike-zone-covers-planet.html

NASA scientists have reported it is unlikely to hit North America so...wait a sec, loud noise outside. tjohn AFK

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Attached Link: elenin page

Some metal pieces may weigh as much as 300lb..  get your catcher's mitt..

Hope it doesn't land on Bejing.....

Quote - I'm more concerned with the Comet ELEnin in october myself...

Well shucks Bobby. Next year is the "end of days". Been predicted for thousands of years in the Bible, in the mathematical extrapolation of the Iching, in the Mayan calendar, by the US webbot project and so on. According to Hopi legend some will survive if they are on the Hope lands. Last year we had an earthkiller size asteroid come within 24 hours of hitting the earth so what is to prevent another coming closer next year. The shuttle crew will not be landing on the asteroid and planting nuclears bombs like the Bruce Willis movie, Armegeddon because there is no ready shuttle or crew. Best to buy some shovels now while they are still available and start digging. December 21 is the predicted date I believe. A rather unusual number that, 122112!

23rd here.. took a walk at 6am..expecting i'd see something..nada, zilch, nothing. but it's only 8:30 am here. 

bet the chances of pieces falling into an un inhabited desert or at some stranger's home is extremely high..

Mars is looking better and better.

haha.. willie.. you running off to meet thebryster?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15021323

don't touch it if it lands on your brollie!!

<--- points his telescopes towards Earth.

so.. did it 'land' yet?

in the paciifc ocean. you diving to find it? 

sigh..not even a buzz of a climax.. sigh..

The Elenin article sounds like a lot of bogus to me... I checked the NASA page, but it shows the object moving through earths orbit at a considerable distance from earth.. Also i have no idea where the article gets the insane idea that it could be a neutron star.. If it was a neuron star and it was moving through the asteroid belt, we'd be fried right now from the radiation as the intense gravitational pull of the neutron star would pull asteroids crashing into its surface.

Also, a neutron star is seriously heavy, it should have considerable effect on the orbits of planets at the very least..

I also dont find the actual 'proof' in the article that the comet affects earth? Where exactly does nasa state there is a significant gravitaional pull from the comet?

I'm also still at a loss how exactly a passign comet is supposed to trigger an earth quake.. The quakes all occured at fold-lines between tectonic plates.

So unless there is something in the supplied mathematical model or even just a reasonably hypothesis of how gravity from a far away comet, combined with alignment of the sun and another planet creates movement amongst those tectonic plates, including an explaination of why this would have such a localized effect as opposed to something more global (considering the distances and the size of the gravitational fields involved)... I dont think its reasonable to assume this comet as the cause in favor of traditional theories about magma flows pushing the plates in various directions.

You think NASA or any government is gonna tell us we're all about to die?

I am intrigued by the Hopi legend that says those who dwell with the Hopi will survive the end of days. They live high on a plateau. Since almost all of the major plagues that have occurred have been in conjunction with many ufo reports from those time periods including the bubonic plague and the Spanish influenza in which millions died and witnesses report seeing airborne craft spraying something into the atmosphere just prior to those plagues we then have the question: Were these plagues caused by an airborne dispersant? If you were out to kill a major portion of the population then it would be expediant to have a ground hugging type of chemical or biological agent.

Since we are moving out of our present location to an outlying area I am grateful that we will be removing ourselves from an inherently unstable demographic in which a plague situation would be to put it mildly; defenseably unfeasable, I think it desirable to build a saferoom and buy lots of bullets. I don't really believe all of these legends from so many diverse cultures and reports from ufo nuts you understand. But just in case.....

The Martian is right...  The government would not bother to tell us that we are going to be put in a microwave on a high setting...  What would be the purpose to doing that..  But there could be a lotto taken and whom ever wins the Matian can take them back to Mars with him.. giving that Mars won't fry too..

So let's start a Lotto...

I'm on Rayraz's side.  I read the Elenin article and to be polite I'd say conspiracy theory alarmist; bluntly shear quackery.  I googled the Dr. Mark Sircus who penned the article and can find no credentials anywhere but I did find other articles that were authored by a Dr. Mark Sircus even blowing the alarm whistle and debunking accepted medical findings.  Is it the same person?  If it is, he must be a genius to be such an authority in medicine and astrophysics.  

And why is his article even getting exposure now that the window of catastrophe is upon us and no one has noticed any change in this here home planet of ours.  I say snake oil saleman.

If believe the end will come some day but I don' think it will be a comet/neutron star/brown dwarf name Elenin in September 2011.

My opinion.

Quote - You think NASA or any government is gonna tell us we're all about to die?

Ofcoures they're not gunna tell us, but theres little you can hide when a neutron star flies through our asteroid belt :P

I worry more about the collider underground in Cern, Switzerland. What happens

if they create some antimatter and can't control it? Sort of like Stephen King's

Langoliers.  Chomp, chomp, chomp! Oops, all gone......

They do create antimatter in CERN.. they also managed to contain it for record times. Its just that the quantities they make arent dangerous. Its literally generated with only a few subatomic partilces at a time. Not enough to do any harm.

There have also been worries about blackholes, but the same thing applies there.. if any such black holes even can be created at the LHC, they'd be so incredibly tiny that they would evaporate before they could do harm. 

Ray? From tiny acorns do mighty oaks spring forth.

If they did make a black hole how could it evaporate? By its very nature it would feed itself and grow. Not something you want flying around the LHC....

Tom? Lottery where the prize is a trip to my home planet? What's in it for me? :lol:

Well, black holes by their nature do actually evaporate..

To explain why, i have to first explain two concepts that are the foundation of evaporating black holes. 

**The first concept that space/time has a limited entropy:
**Space-time is in some ways a bit like the harddrive in your computer. It can only store information at a certain density, thus its total storage capacity of your harddrive is limited by the storage area of your harddrive. The limited density and limited volume create a fixed maximum amount of entropy for your harddrive. A fixed capacity to store information.

Similarly only a limited amount of information (matter in this case) can be stored in a limited amount of space/time. Space/time by its very nature has this limit.

**The second concept is that a black hole does, in some sense, really rip a hole in space-time:
**Imagine space time as a rubber sheet. If nothing is put on top of the rubber sheet, it will be completely level and flat. Now if we put an object on it, the weight of the object bends the rubber sheet, creating a dent. The heavier the object, the deeper the dent.

Now imagine travel across the surface of the rubber sheet. The closer you get to the object, the steeper the slope will be as the sheet curves more and more to reach the deepest depths of the dent. The deeper the dent, the steeper this slope will get. A black hole does the same thing with space-time. 

Now imagine we put an object on the rubber sheet so compact and heavy, that the steepest part of the slope makes a 90 degree angle away from what would otherwise have been the level surface of the dent-less sheet. You could continue across a 90 degree slope as deep down the dent as you want, but you will never reach the other side or even the center of the dent. Effectively the sheet has a hole inside it.

The same happens in the black hole. Space-time is bent so strongly that a hole is ripped inside it. Once you go beyond the schwarzschild radius -  the point beyond which even light cannot escape its gravitational pull - there is actually no space/time as we know it inside it.

**Combining both concepts:
**When we combine the concept of limited information capacity of space-time with the hole in space-time, we can ask the following question:

If there is no space-time inside the black hole, if the black hole is really a hole in space-time. Then where is the information stored about the mass that fell into it?

This is where things get interesting... As there is no space-time inside the black hole, there is only one place where the information about the mass falling into the black hole can be described: *on the very edge of space time, on the surface of the black-hole. *

This is where the reason for evaporating black holes is found. Remember, space-time has a maximum entropy. The black hole compacts matter to its densest state, the maximum entropy of its volume. The black hole's volume can only contain a certain maximum density of matter. But the information about this matter isn't stored inside the black hole (because thats where space-time seizes to exist), but instead is stored on its surface!

We can view the black hole as a sphere, because that is the most efficient shape for matter to take. This is why all large enough concentrations of mass assume a spherical shape. The volume of any sphere is larger then its surface. Thus the entropy of the blackhole's volume is larger then the entropy of its surface.

As a result, not all of the mass of the black hole can be described on its surface! Consequently, the matter cannot be contained within the black hole and ends up being radiated back out right at the edge of the schwarzschild radius in the form of energy. This radiation is known as Hawking radiation, named after the famous Stephen Hawking who thought up the entire concept explained here.

As the matter gets radiated back out in the form of energy, the black hole's mass reduces, its radius schrinks, with its radius its surface area shrinks, which in turn means that more energy will get radiated back out, etc. etc. untill the black hole is evaporated.

The only way a black hole can stay alive is by sucking in enough matter to compensate for the energy it radiates away. If it doesnt, it will shrink and eventually evaporate.

The particles used in the LHC are so very small, that they can only create really tiny, if any black holes. Even if a super-tiny black hole is created in the LHC, it will be so very small, and its gravitational pull so very weak, that it can only pull in small sub-atomic particles.

While there are huge amounts of subatomic particles in a small part of space from our human perspective, the subatomic sized black hole itself would be so small, that relative to its size, other particles are actually very far away.

The gravitational pull of the black hole might be huge relative to its size, but its size will be so tiny and other subatomic particles coming close enough to get caught by the gravitational pull of the black hole would be very few and far apart.

As a result the micro black-hole's mass will simply evaporate away in the form of hawking radiation before it can pull in enough matter to compensate that loss of mass, let alone for it to grow consistently.

The fears sound reminiscent to those when the first atomic bomb was tested. Some feared that the atomic detonation would ignite Earth’s entire atmosphere bringing an end to civilization…yet here we are.

Thanks for that interesting explanation Rayraz. Actually I was just kidding about the Cern collider. I fully expect the aliens from the planet Nibaru will return and do us in long before the black holes will..............

The formation of blackholes at LHC are a theoretical possiblity.  The scientist there have actually been looking for evidence to their creation to support the theory but so far no evidence has been found any have been created albeit short lived. The power output of LHC is scheduled to be increased somewhere down the line.  Maybe then they will find one of those.

I've always been pro science but some of the things accomplished keep me mindful of the boy scount motto I learned so many years ago; "Be Prepared." Have never been one to allow myself to conform to mainstream conditioning and hence tend to pay more credence than some to fringe ideas. An example would be the book "The 12th Planet" by Zechariah Stitchin. A scholar of early Sumerian texts he draws some controversial conclusions but also presents so difficult questions so the reader is left wondering exactly which history is the right history; the one most taught or perhaps another all together. The idea of so many historical records pointing to one event as in the end of days leads me to believe that there well may be some fire behind the smoke and a wise person would do well to give it some heed rather than to dismiss it as hokum or fantasy. I do kid around a bit about my "beliefs"  but there is always a seed of concern at the core that is fertiised and watered by such programs as the Ancient Astronauts who just flat out say there are no gods. They were aliens period! They do present some compelling evidence at times as do all of the fringe and some of it is downright scary. A good example is the theory that meteorites carry diseases that can cause plagues just as the white mans diseases decimated the native populations of the new world and low and behold but what do we have but a meteorite impact in Peru a little over a year ago and a couple hundred residents were suddenly sickened. The bottom line is we are an insignificant speck in a huge rainforest and can get stepped on anytime and the stepper may not even notice.

Well for that meteorite in peru, its prettty easy to find out if it was the cause for the sickness.. just check for the cause in the victims, and then check the meteorite for signs of the cause as well. If the cause of the desease cannot be found on the meteorite, the meteorite is clearly not the cause.

By the way, did you know there is a theory that life might have originated in space and been brought to earth by asteroids? Its called panspermia.

I was aware of the life on earth from a meteorite theory but not of the name Panspermia. Hardly surprising following the findings of the satellite that collected dust from the comet tail some years back,

As a youngster I dreampt as did so many others of having inhabited space colonies by now and flying cars and such but alas it seems it will not be in my lifetime. Now with the recent revelation that extended time in space causes severe eye damage in some, we may be confined to our planet. What a ghastly thought that brings fore, the idea of billions more on this globe. Whereas we as youths though the ZPG or zero population growth movement of the 60's was doable and sensible we are now faced with large groups of uncaring and overbreeding demographics who view quantity as practical and a way to supremacy. A concept as unsustainable as the national debt that, and perhaps we need an "end of days" to bring the population back into realistic bounds. Regretable too is the intellectual supression fostered by the large religions on mankind for millenia. Where would we be scientifically were it not for the dark ages. Those who perceive themselves as great humanitarians devoting their lives to this god or that god and demanding near demonic dedication tho their dogma, suceeded only in delaying the arrival of cures for the pantheon of diseases affecting mankind and creating misery for millions.

Perhaps Stitchin's theory that were genetically modified models of early hominids created by aliens to mine gold for them is correct. Some even say this explains our endemic craving for the metal. If so, if we were indeed so created then I fear the experiment was a failure in the long term.

I think as a species we're hardly on the most efficient path...

Its strange how the fastest way to get new technology developed is by convincing the military that they can benefit from the end-result...

Its also quite illogical that the powers taht be dont notice or dont care that the current economic structure favors exponential profit growth over innovation and sustainability... The value of profit is entirely imaginary... The only thing that gives profit any value is the knowledge that you're more or less expected to make a profit in before others will even start to consider evaluating your performance at whatever it is you're doing.

Finally, the powers that be are too pressured by this flawed economic system... This results in the exploration of rediculously inefficient and possibly futile paths for future technological development.

Take fusion research for example:

Imagine that we as a species, starting right now, spend half a century working on the development of efficient fusion reactors. Imagine we invest some of the smartest minds on the planet for half a century into creating a power source of unimaginable capacity. A powersource neccesary to solve our energy consumption problems. A powersource that is simply required if we wish to elevate mankind to a star faring civilization... Sounds like a marvellous plan to help mankind forward right?

Then snap back to reality, and realize we have already spent more then half a century trying to develop this technology, imagine the billions upon billions we have invested in this.

The focus of most of this expense? Fusion reactors of toroid design.

How is this a problem you ask? Well, we already know now for half a century that the electric field generated in this toroid design is actually an extremely inefficient means of compacting matter to the densities required to create fusion. It takes tremendous amounts of energy to create fusion with a toroidal reactor design, because the electric fields meant to compress the fuel to the point of nuclear fusion spend most of their energy doing anything but compressing the fusion fuel.

Despite this knowledge we have spent are billions and billions worth of research on this known inherently inefficient design. So now that we have struggled for half a century to make this flawed design work, you would expect us to decide: 

"hey.. lets hold on for a minute, stop doing what we're doing and re-think this... Lets spend our time finding other more efficient means of compressing this fusion fuel."

**
**

Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong...

We make up timelines that span across decades costing multiples of the billions already spent so far to build devices we already know wont work. Authorities try to justify the expense by claiming the production of this insufficient hardware is required as an intermediary stage towards building the final actually working fusion reactors. Authorities reason that too much money has already been spent on this type of reactors to stop trying to make them work.

Why do we do this? Well, we already invested so much, that we "cannot stop now". If we would stop, the money we spent would be "lost". But if we spend even more money.. it "might eventually become profitable".

But 60 years into the future, the energy crisis will be solved right?

Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong...

In 60 years we'll have huge bulky powerhungry monsters that require enormous amounts of energy to even get them up and running. Sure, once they'll run they'll produce a lot of energy, but they'll be big, bulky, and they'll still be inherently highly inefficient.

They'll be too large and too power-hungry to be of much use in early interstellar space travel. We still wont be any closer to having an efficiënt means of creating energy through fusion. We'll just have created the worlds most expensive ugly duckling. We'll still be earthbound, energy will still be very costly, and we'll have no choise but to utilize this futile piece of technology for decades to come in order to break even on our investments.

The same principles apply elsewhere:

New cheaper and/or more effective medicines, genetically modified crop, novel ways to collect water in deserts and convert them to farmland, alternative energy sources, alternative fuels, cross-disciplinary integration of various sciences, thoriumbased fission versus uraniumbased fission, international politics, humanitarian aid, etc. etc.

I hope we realize soon that progress is worth more then profit...

ArtByMivan? How weird is that? I'm reading that very same book.

Ok, now that I've read all the above I think I can go for my Physics doctorate.......

....although it was a great read.

hehe i can get carried away ^^ sorry bryster :P

I got my learned multi degreed wife to read it and she was not impressed. Thought it quackery and in typical mainstream thinker fashion found internet debunkers of Stitchen to support here opinion. Now flash back some twenty years to cold fusion. Remember that? Pons and Fleischer I believe. They were ridiculed and eventually dropped from public view for their theory and experiments. Well now we have numerous researchers around the globe supporting the idea with experiments of their own. Seems it boils down to the sophistication of the measuring device and the purity of the chemicals involved. Just goes to show how effective the power of stupid is in slowing intellect and research that would benefit all.

So do I think we will have giant radioactivity generators around the planet in the future spewing out radioactive waste? I will wait until after 12/21 of next year to answer that. Remember one thing though. All of those thousands of tons of spent fuel rods in storage around the world require constant cooling usually through a flow of water. If the water flow is interrupted long enough those rods will reach critical mass and go boom. Any event of worldwide volcanic/tectonic activity could very well trigger a planet wide nuclear event. Look at what happened in Japan this year with what was a fairly small tidal wave and the minor earthquake in Virginia last month. Go to google maps and take an aerial view of the US. See all of the areas of corrugated like ridges? Those are areas of tectonic activity. Now take that map and overlay it with the locations of nuclear facilities. If the fist two words flowing through your synapses are Oh S+++, you are entitled to be as scared as I.

I still think its stupid we use fission based on uranium.. Thorium holds SO many benefits compared to uranium that its just rediculous that we dont use it.. There's twice as much of it in the ground (cheaper fuel), you can  turn it into a liquid fuel (much easier to keep cool or distribute in a controlled fashion), if you shut a thorium reactor down you dont have to keep cooling some big radioactive core to prevent it from melting or exploding, u can actually use up ALL the fuel cuz its easy to separate the waste from the remaining fuel (unlike uranium fuel rods which become an inefficient mix of uranium and waste material far before all uranium is actually used), the radioactive waste produced is less dangerous and decays to harmless materials much faster, its possible to separate various sections of a thorium reactor much better then those of a uranium reactor as well (which opens up possibilities for better safety).

Only downside is that thorium reactors dont create weapons-grade radioactive substances... Which is why we've historically been focussed on uranium instead.

God-forbid we use something that creates cheap energy for world-wide use. Fission reactors were supposed to give us unlimited cheap power but suddenly they became the most expensive electricity generators on the planet.

In Wales we see wind-farms going up all over. Al the locals complain about is the 'visual pollution' and the noise. Noise? What noise? They don't give a damn about pollution. They just don't want anything to spoil their view.  

I propose to build wind farms around the Capitol Building in the U.S. and around Parliament in England. Just a thought...

Here is some really unusual radiaton. Saw it on Ancient Astronauts last night so googled it and eureka! http://www.astrologycom.com/yakutia1.html Make sure to read the entire article and then think about tunguska.