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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 24 1:08 pm)
Subject: Morph, dial spinning, and or texture creators-WIP discussion: Celebs, historica
Mr Sparky
I get a sense of one person-but the hair style makes me wonder. I also have not been watching TV for several years and am way behind. I get a hint of Bruce Willis- but I;m not sure. Can you dial down the light on your second-it's got blown highlights- it might be easier with lower lighting...
..I get a hint of Bruce Willis- but I;m not sure.
Nope. For the 1st Sam provided the answer.
Can you dial down the light on your second-it's got blown highlights- it might be easier with lower lighting...
Would do but I didn't make them.
What I did was ask someone I know with faceshop. Gave her 3 photos and said to her use the software like anyone else would. So I could see if she could make an accurate face "out of the box" using one photo that every one would recognise.
If it worked then I'd get myself the latest version and follow any tips posted here. Simply because faceshop is a lot of money to gamble on. Especially when only planing to make some freebies with it.
Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.
I was put off by the manky texturing but yes, it does look like Alan Alda.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
You might be interested in this forum topic over at Daz:
Hi MrSparky
I see it! But the hair through me off. I made the face texture with Photoshop-using a V4 template so it lines up with the UV map. I could not get any morphs to make the nose look right- especially around the nostrils. I reshaped the nose and face with Zbrush (free trial)
Unfortunately, none were made individually on a non-morphed V4
Yes- photoshop would be way too expensive for such a limited use- but there is a freeware image editor-name escapes me-that would work well. And I see Blender (free) has similar shaping tools to the ones I used in Zbrush.
I don't know anything about faceshop. I used the highest resolution web photos I could find-so I can do closeups. I am trying to decide what character to try next!
Glanced at Eric's pic when this thread was first posted, but didn't recognise the celeb.
However, there was a story about Megan Fox on the news last night, and although I am not familiar with her, or her work, I jotted down the name because I thought she clearly resembled your render.
So - two for Fox.
I'm always looking for clear photos. This is an excellent site for high resolution pictures of Celebrities. I mean you can see the pores on some of these, so may that is too close.
Mark- can you describe your work flow?
For me it began with finding hi res pictures of Meg with facial closeups.Originally, I had a pic as the background while dial spinning in Poser-but the pic would dissappear for a while any time I made a change- so I went to having the pic open in another window. I found I could not quite get the end of the nose right with either the Morphs++ and/or RDNA Ultramorphs II. I got closer with Lightwave- then found the free trial of Zbrush. It took me a few weeks of trial and error-to learn enough to make progress. I found that I made changes that were too big- then finally stepped back to an earlier version- and made SMALL changes, until I was satisfied (mostly).
Sam - yep it's not good, but it's what Faceshop created. Original and faceshop output below. Which is why I'm keen to see how this can be used to create stuff like Mark and Eric can do. If it's not much hassle to do then I'll go buy a copy of Faceshop.
Mark - thanks for the link.
Eric -
see it! But the hair through me off.
It does, though my mate said thats all they had.
I made the face texture with Photoshop-using a V4 template ...
Ah. When you wrote "tools-including second party apps" and the girl is shown in the FaceShop Mannual (a free download from their site) I assumed you'd use a bit of that software there.
..there is a freeware image editor-name escapes me-that would work well.
GIMP ?
And I see Blender (free) has similar shaping tools to the ones I used in Zbrush.
Sculptris is another freebie, think it's made by the makers of Zbrush.
Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.
Quote - Sam - yep it' s not good, but it's what Faceshop created. Original and faceshop output below. Which is why I'm keen to see how this can be used to create stuff like Mark and Eric can do. If it's not much hassle to do then I'll go buy a copy of Faceshop.
Mark - thanks for the link.
Eric -
see it! But the hair through me off.
It does, though my mate said thats all they had.
I made the face texture with Photoshop-using a V4 template ...
Ah. When you wrote "tools-including second party apps" and the girl is shown in the FaceShop Mannual (a free download from their site) I assumed you'd use a bit of that software there.
HI MrSparky- Eric writes: I've never checked out FaceShop- they have a MegFox?
..there is a freeware image editor-name escapes me-that would work well.
GIMP ?
Eric responds: Yup!
And I see Blender (free) has similar shaping tools to the ones I used in Zbrush.
Sculptris is another freebie, think it's made by the makers of Zbrush.
At least on the Mac (Sculptris Alpha 7) Sculptris WILL work-provided that A) I do not turn on "symmetry:-which let's you modify half of the face and Scultris mirrors it. B) toggle Global to "S" before using the tool- at all. Otherwise when you add the morph in Poser it will move the whole head up-or down. Mighty ugly with the eyes and teeth floating in space!
Mark- can you describe your work flow?*
*
Chaotic at best...
I really type slow, so let me give a few more tips instead. I do this as a hobby and I am not an expert, so hopefully someday an expert will write one of these.
-
Collect a lot of photos. You already know this. You need front and side preferably without the person smiling or laughing. The link I gave above is one of the best I've found. One hint, many celebrities get plastic surgery several times in their lives, so you may find photos just a few years apart that look very different. Bearing that in mind, when you do your final tweaking, focus on just one or two photos.
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I know the temptation is to sculpt a whole face in some package and then kick that out as a morph, but I can't do that and I bet most people will fail at making life-like morphs that way. I find it easier to buy/build a collection of facial part morphs (like "hook-nose" or "long_chin") and then tweak the face with those morphs. I also get to re-use those morphs on other faces. One limitation is you can't give the final morph away as many of the people who sell morph packages do not allow that.
-
Bearing that in mind, buy all the morph packages you find and can afford and try out all the dials until you understand what they do. You must have the ++ morphs from DAZ. I'm beginning to appreciate the RDNA packages. The link below is for the RDNA V4 morph package. Some of them duplicate the DAZ morphs, but some are nicely subtle.
http://www.runtimedna.com/V4-Ultra-Morphs-2-Face-Randomizer.html
There are excellent morph packages sold here at Renderosity too.
-
Even with all the above packages, you still need a few more custom morphs. I think most of the morphs I make for myself, and I have about 200 of my own morphs, are for V4's chin and nose. I think those areas need the most help. I use pretty simple and cheap software to make these. Carrara 3 and Blacksmith 3D (the morph package). About 95% of my morphs that I make, I make with that 8 (?) year old Carrara package. I use Blacksmith for facial creases or bumps. I really don't think you need an expense software package. It's most important you practice and master what you have.
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Use BagginsBill's VSS shader package. If you don't know what that is, do a search in this forum. You'll find lots of threads on it. Keep working it until you get a good look to your texture. I think that's more than half of it if you want a real looking figure. It makes up a for an only semi-good morph. I'm planning on getting the latest Poser Pro when it comes out too if I keep my job. The images of skin from it look really nice.
-
One you have all your morphs loaded in a figure and get a good texture and lighting set up, use that as your starting point every time. I open that pz3 and rename it and start from there.
-
Don't get discouraged by the better work of others. You want to see really good morphs of celebrities look at fygomatic's stuff in the galleries here.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=61047
His stuff is great. I'm only fair, but hey it's a hobby, so I keep at it.
I hope this help and I encourage others to submit suggestions.
Quote - Mark- can you describe your work flow?*
*Chaotic at best...
"HAHA! Me too!"
I really type slow, so let me give a few more tips instead. I do this as a hobby and I am not an expert, so hopefully someday an expert will write one of these.
- Collect a lot of photos. You already know this. You need front and side preferably without the person smiling or laughing. The link I gave above is one of the best I've found. One hint, many celebrities get plastic surgery several times in their lives, so you may find photos just a few years apart that look very different. Bearing that in mind, when you do your final tweaking, focus on just one or two photos.
"Thanks! That site is great! I found some great Scarlett Johannson pics-and that is where I got my Meg Texture. You are SOOO right about the plastic surgery!!! There are a number of Megan looks- and that threw me off at first- until you mentioned that on the Daz thread."
- I know the temptation is to sculpt a whole face in some package and then kick that out as a morph, but I can't do that and I bet most people will fail at making life-like morphs that way. I find it easier to buy/build a collection of facial part morphs (like "hook-nose" or "long_chin") and then tweak the face with those morphs. I also get to re-use those morphs on other faces. One limitation is you can't give the final morph away as many of the people who sell morph packages do not allow that.
"That is a great idea-the collection of morphs. I found that real world faces go way beyond any of the morph packs in variety. One limit with V4 is that they disabled the XYZ scale dials- and MANY faces are narrower than V4's or M4's. I found a python script to make them visible again-works in Mac Poser 6- but NOT PoserPro2010 (crashes).
I am going to try the "sculpt a whole face" approach unless my Zbrush trial expires first."
- Bearing that in mind, buy all the morph packages you find and can afford and try out all the dials until you understand what they do. You must have the ++ morphs from DAZ. I'm beginning to appreciate the RDNA packages. The link below is for the RDNA V4 morph package. Some of them duplicate the DAZ morphs, but some are nicely subtle.
http://www.runtimedna.com/V4-Ultra-Morphs-2-Face-Randomizer.html
"I got the V4 Ultra-Morphs-2- great pack that expands on the ++ morphs. I started with those-but ended up moving everything around in Zbrush. For instance-the nose-there were no commercial morphs to make the nose narrow at the top-and gradually widen on the way down. Same with the nostrils- I could not quite get them right with any morph target packs- so I "rebuilt" it in Zbrush (trial). What I DONT have is an individual morph-there are ALL combos. Which is a shame because I will have to start from scratch with Scarlett."
There are excellent morph packages sold here at Renderosity too.
- Even with all the above packages, you still need a few more custom morphs. I think most of the morphs I make for myself, and I have about 200 of my own morphs, are for V4's chin and nose. I think those areas need the most help. I use pretty simple and cheap software to make these. Carrara 3 and Blacksmith 3D (the morph package). About 95% of my morphs that I make, I make with that 8 (?) year old Carrara package. I use Blacksmith for facial creases or bumps. I really don't think you need an expense software package. It's most important you practice and master what you have.
" Wow- Carrara 3. I think I finally found something I DONT like about my Mac. Unless I find an "OS8" simulator that will work on an Intel Mac- I cannot USE my original morph program- RayDream Studio 5 (ancestor of Carrara). I am going to have to check out BlackSmith 3D! "
- Use BagginsBill's VSS shader package. If you don't know what that is, do a search in this forum. You'll find lots of threads on it. Keep working it until you get a good look to your texture. I think that's more than half of it if you want a real looking figure. It makes up a for an only semi-good morph. I'm planning on getting the latest Poser Pro when it comes out too if I keep my job. The images of skin from it look really nice.
" I love that shader!! I used it extensively!! PoserPro2012 adds fantastic SSS based skin shaders!!! I exported Meg to Lightwave-then created a node network based on "Fast Skin SSS"- for the skin, teeth and eyes- making 3 different versions of the face texture-one for Subdermis, Epidermis, and diffuse-many hours there. It looks like PoserPro2010 solves it-with preset shaders! Love it.!!!"
- One you have all your morphs loaded in a figure and get a good texture and lighting set up, use that as your starting point every time. I open that pz3 and rename it and start from there.
"SMART! I lost my best earlier build by NOT doing that!" I ended up with a different version of Meg (from a different plastic surgery). I am equally as pleased with it-but I had a Meg 2010 version as well. Oh well."
- Don't get discouraged by the better work of others. You want to see really good morphs of celebrities look at fygomatic's stuff in the galleries here.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=61047
His stuff is great. I'm only fair, but hey it's a hobby, so I keep at it.
I hope this help and I encourage others to submit suggestions.
" I did at first- Fygomatic is the reigning champ. He makes his characters in Lightwave 3d. It is an expensive program-which I got years ago- on a SIDE grade offer. The typical work flow involves subdivision surfaces (which Poser will NOT accept as a MorpH) The toolset for organic face REMODELING is actually much more limited than BlackSmith3d, and very much more limited than Zbrush. And yet- he makes the best celeb characters that I have ever seen! Lightwave has MANY MANY modeling tools-but they alter geometry-there are a few that don't. No brushes as in Zbrush. "
"This is only a hobby for me too-and I hope to keep at it- I learned a lot making Meg- I started seriously back in June. Hopefully it will take less time for Scarlett"
Then I used the WARP tool to rescale and distort- take a look at a V4 face texture map-the face is quite distorted! Note: no Scalett morph here-just working on a texture map. I pulled the eyes in and down, adjusted and made the nose and mouth much narrower. Notice that the eyes/eyelids look odd-that is because Scarlett's eyeballs are over the eyelids of the V4 texture. I need to carefully erase the Scarlett eye textures.... also do some clone stamping touch up in many places- then find a better blending mode- and start clone brushing the edges of the face.
Also I will need to create a mask (so I can work on the eyes ONLY) as the eyes need closer scaling and distorting to make a better match..... I would LOVE to find a pic where here hair is pulled away from the face as well..
I am still learning and experimenting btw! I might try the same to use her iris textures...teeth even? Maaybe... :-)
One thing I would get, it's for free, is the "unhide" python at the link below in the free stuff here at Renderosity. You talked about scaling the face, with this python you can bring up the head scale x,y,and z displays if they are hidden (I can't remember how it is with the orginal V4). I scale V4's head all the times in x and y. Z gives an unusual chin protrusion which is useful too. You can also use the python to uncover hidden dials for location on the eyes to move them around if your morph made outside Poser shifts them. Same with the teeth. Some of ++morphs for the body like "thin" (could be "bulk") have an impact on the head. If you "unhide" them you can use them just on the head.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=37119
One other thing, there also another way to load a picture of a person into Poser for reference. Load a square or box and load the image onto it in the material room. You can scale the box until its the right size for the head and then align the box with the head. You can move the box back and forth thru the head to see how your image and head compare.
Good luck
Hi NekkidChicken
All of WERTS morphs are gone from ShareCG- no one knows why.It might be that Daz objected to the use of OBJ files. This is a geometry file-and I know Daz objects to that.
It might be possible to distribute them legally if they are Pose files. I don't know how to do that yet-but it might be possible. I started out with the intent of creating free morphs the way WERTS did-but he vanished -literally overnight. I have to think it was a legal threat.
If he had not vanished-some of my WIP morphs would already be there-as Obj files. I WILL look into exporting pose files-that might work.
I've asked Fygomatic that same question- as have many othes. He is considering it.
For me to distribute I might have to start with a stock V4 head and make all the shapes without mixing in commercial morphs-or so I think.Right now Megan is about 50:50 my reshaping and commercial dial spinning- I got as far as I could with dial spinning-then reshaped the whole conglomerate in Zbrush.
For the texturing- I might be able to do so if I use merchant resource V4 templates- AND change the original phototextures. I think there are copywright laws relating to that- ie, I could not give away or sell a photo of Scarlett taken by someone else-but if I use portions of it and change them significantly as-I am doing now- it might be possible to distribute the texture map. Right now I am using a Daz texture as a base template so I suspect that might be problemati-although I am just using it to get the SHAPE and alignment correct.
I intend to create ALL the Scarlett face shapes from scratch-if that is succesfull-then I might consider selling through Daz-IF I can make and legally distribute both the texture and the morph as a complete character. in the same way the sell a Daz Angel character-that greatly but not exactly resembles Angelina Jolie-and not using her name. I might also give away my morphs or the nearly correct WIPS as free morphs-If I can do so legally. I have DOZENS of object files that resemble her-just not as closely.
The programs I am using are very expensive for a hobbyist who is not wealthy- Zbrush is $700 US-for example. If I can partly support the costs by making products-as well as freebies-it makes more sense.
Thanks for stating that more completely than I did, Mark! To misquote Yoda (Star Wars) "To Mark, listen you must." :-)
The one I found works well in Poser 6 Mac- but crashes PoserPro2010 Mac. I will have to try this version!
Also THANKS for the box idea- I was using a pic as BACKGROUND- and it vanishes for several seconds everytime I make an adjustment with a morph dial.
I think my Avatar is a good hint that I am a bit of a Star Wars geek. :-) That is a WERTS Alec Guiness morph.
Quote - One thing I would get, it's for free, is the "unhide" python at the link below in the free stuff here at Renderosity. You talked about scaling the face, with this python you can bring up the head scale x,y,and z displays if they are hidden (I can't remember how it is with the orginal V4). I scale V4's head all the times in x and y. Z gives an unusual chin protrusion which is useful too. You can also use the python to uncover hidden dials for location on the eyes to move them around if your morph made outside Poser shifts them. Same with the teeth. Some of ++morphs for the body like "thin" (could be "bulk") have an impact on the head. If you "unhide" them you can use them just on the head.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=37119
One other thing, there also another way to load a picture of a person into Poser for reference. Load a square or box and load the image onto it in the material room. You can scale the box until its the right size for the head and then align the box with the head. You can move the box back and forth thru the head to see how your image and head compare.
Good luck
Hi WTB
Who is she? A lovely lass! You are definetely on the way. One thing I discovered is how helpful it is to unhide the XYZ scale dials for V4's head. Many faces are more narrow than the morphs allow. If you could make the face more narrow from the jaw hing down I think it would be closer.
Expressions! After the JOY of Poser2012 fades a bit I am going back to the shaping fun.
Eric, from the perspective of the two pics, I can see how you'd think so. It's not necessarily the case, and this is where you've got to be careful when doing likenesses.
See, in the real pic, her head is angling down, which narrows the lower face. In other pics where her head is more straight-on, it's not so narrow. Also, there's a younger/older spectrum here where I've landed somewhere in the middle.
So, when you account for angles and lighting, things can get tricky. One might try to morph that narrowness in and find out later that they went too far to compensate for pose and lights. (I've probably done that a million times)
Her fake name is Inna from a site called Met-Art. Artsy nude internet model from yesteryore.
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HiAnyone else interested in creating recognizable characters with various Poser related tools-including second party apps? After seeing and using WERTS amazing morphs I set out to make my own characters. This is the first- after many many hours of morphing. I also created a facial texture-based on photos from the web.
There was a lot of dial spinning here- as well as numerous tweaks and changes with the poser morph brush, Lightwave, and a free trial of Zbrush
Does this look like anyone to anyone? I think it does-but I might be biased! :-)
Eric