You know, I hear a lot of criticism  about Alyson's default figure not looking all that good. Apparently, that's enough to deter some people from using her at all. I've also heard the same hing said though about how V4, V3, Antonia, and Sp3 aren't very good looking in their default states as well.

So, I'm curious to know who are these people that will only use a figure in their default state and not try to morph them into something a little more pleasing?

Speak up.

Beats me.  Maybe those who can't afford morph packs and texture sets.

I don't mind SP3 in the default state; it looks rather like Juliette Lewis.  Even unmorphed V3 isn't bad looking.

In fact, P5 Judy looks superb when rendered without lights. :) 

Quote - Beats me.  Maybe those who can't afford morph packs and texture sets.

I don't mind SP3 in the default state; it looks rather like Juliette Lewis.  Even unmorphed V3 isn't bad looking.

In fact, P5 Judy looks superb when rendered without lights. :) 

Heh, actually that was the case for me when I first started doing my webcomic, Android. I didn't have the morph sets for Laura 3, so could only change skin color and hair to try  and make her look somewhat different. I got roundly criticsed about doing that and went out and bought the morph set which I hardly ever use.

Te usability of a figure depends on the power of the creator to create a hype .

If you and your figure can not create a hype, your figure is doomed.

OR? Be ready.
In 12 Posering years I'v only seen one release where the creator was ready.
And the figure became a succes. (As far as 3rd party figures can have succes. )
"Little One".

Not the greatest of figures, but certainly one with the cutest face.
But the creator was ready, had tons of ready freebies and kept the momentum going. He was prepared, he was ready, the release was a succes.

All others are after the quick money.
Build, release and then . . . Oh yes, she is naked??? (or some tiney nothing-thing) 
Who's gonna make stuff for my baby?

Well sir; NO BODY.
If you or your figure can not create a hype, it is bye-bye after a couple of days.

Same for standard Poser or DAZ figures.

Only by creating a hype can you make people curious, and buy.

PS ; "Little One" is one of the 3 items I ever bought, and it is the ony item I do not regret.
And also the only item I still use.

Not really sure what this has to do with the original topic.

Quote - Beats me.  Maybe those who can't afford morph packs and texture sets.

I don't mind SP3 in the default state; it looks rather like Juliette Lewis.  Even unmorphed V3 isn't bad looking.

In fact, P5 Judy looks superb when rendered without lights. :) 

Anyone who uses Alyson or Alyson2 has no excuse for complaining since she has more face morphs than some morph packs combined.

What this has to do with the post?

Usability out of the box.
User friendlyness, out of the box.

How does the figure LOOk in her default state?

If a figure looks good in her default state, she/he will get used.

The more use, the more add-ons will get build.
More add-ons brings more use.
And the circle is round.

Any extremely good figure can create a hype on his/her own.

Answer to your question;

Default V4 looks good. Only needs hair and clothes.
Default Alyson needs work.
Face and body work. And then hair and clothes.

And as most users do not take or make the time for Alyson step one, they never get to step 2.

But she does come with a ton of morphs, and she can be made looking good. Just her default state is not that refined as she could be.

Question answered.

Happy Posering.

I never use a figure in it's default state. But in the case of Alyson, I won't use her in any state ;). I think she's fugly. (insert SamT's bag of smashed crabs moniker here). I can't help it if I feel that way and I'm not alone. I think the Poser 6 figures were a lot better looking. They should have stuck with those. Of course, this is only one woman's opinion and if others like her, more power to you :).

Laurie

Here is another woman's opinion S... I never have used those figures. Maybe clouded judgement because of Victoria. But to me they don't look good at all. But, let me add I have seen some people make them look pretty decent.

I'm always amazed why some vendors never change V4 and use her in the default state for promo images, many times even with that purple painted on underwear.    I would assume there is room for some creativity when you're dealing with 3D and graphics but surprisingly that's not always the case :)

"So, I'm curious to know who are these people that will only use a figure in their default state and not try to morph them into something a little more pleasing?"

We animators who are NOT trying create sexually attractive

Virtual fantasy Chicks&Guys.

BTW  in the world of poser people judge figures by their default look just as they would  judge a model prop with no textures/Mats.
the model prop my have "potential
to look really good" with a little texture painting& UV mapping effort on your part.
but I suspect most users tend to be from the load/click/render crowd and prefer not
to have to do all this "Fixing up" work
Before being able to render.

Cheers

Cheers

I don't care that a model may have potential. I've spent hours and hours morphing Angela (Mankahoo) and Antonia and let's face it - Antonia's default mug isn't the greatest (no offense to odf...lol) But she does have potential. And initially, even in her default state, she still looks human - as opposed to the Poser 8/9 figures...lol. I don't want to HAVE to spend hours and hours making a horrible model look passable, but I will spend hours making a passable model look better. Know what I mean?

Laurie

personally I use P6 James out of the box, no mods.

he's a good "everyman" figure for when I'm working on rooms and sets.

@ Vilters - Default V4 looks good?  Are your eyes painted on, mate?  

@ Khai - Agree with James, even if he's a bit too close to Beckham for comfort.  Don is a pretty good ordinary guy, too. 

Believe me or not, I never loaded Alyson in PP2010, so the first time I loaded Alyson 2 in PP2012 I couldn't help laughing for about the 10 minutes I played with her.

No offence to SM but I don't think I will ever load her again lol

"But she does have potential. And initially, even in her default state, she still looks human - as opposed to the Poser 8/9 figures...lol. I don't want to HAVE to spend hours and hours making a horrible model look passable,"

Quoted for agreement.
and most people will not even bother to undertake the effort
after one look at where they are having to start with "Alyson& Ryan"

Cheers

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings about Alyson and obviously good intentions were there.  However, it's not a figure I could use in it's default state.  In fact, if I do work with it, the first thing I'm doing is morphing a new face... with due haste.

However, I tend to make a custom face for just about every human figure I use.  Except maybe... Stephanie Petite.

Oh and to be fair I think the original Aiko looked like an alien (Aiko 3 was spot-on as an anime figure though).

Quote - I don't care that a model may have potential. I've spent hours and hours morphing Angela (Mankahoo) and Antonia and let's face it - Antonia's default mug isn't the greatest (no offense to odf...lol) But she does have potential. And initially, even in her default state, she still looks human - as opposed to the Poser 8/9 figures...lol. I don't want to HAVE to spend hours and hours making a horrible model look passable, but I will spend hours making a passable model look better. Know what I mean?

Laurie

Agree.

I'd also mention that while most people probably don't use the default figures, at least as the main character or focal point in a render, they might wonder how likely it is that they can morph them into something that fits their conception. If the default figure is a long way from that conception to begin with, it's going to seem like more work, even if, in reality, it actually isn't.

I've seen one render of Alyson that I thought looked realistically human. The lack of evidence that others have succeeded with her (the way I would like to) does not inspire confidence in me. If I really believed I could make her work, I'd spend more time with her. But I just don't have that faith, and that faith comes from seeing her used well in fully fleshed, finished, quality renders.

As to the original question. If you are creating a scene, then the people are only props. Do you change the look of your props? (BTW, yes, I often do. Colors especially.)

I have dealt with the human body in an intimate way for nearly four decades in the health care field. There is no figure in the Poser range that looks completely human to me, no matter how much work I do. So, I often just stand back and make do.

Sometimes I just go with the base character, since they are incidental to the scene. Sometimes I spend a lot of time adjusting morphs and textures. But I always end up with something that I know doesn't look right. So I use my imagination.

@ nobobyinparticular

You are sooo right.
the first creator that turns a woman / man into a Poser model will sell thousands.

Or they have anorexia, or they are dolls, or they are objects with balloons, (sorry can not find a better discription) none resembles a woman.

Alyson and Miki3 do have the nicest legs of the lot.
That is true.

At a time builders thought Polycount was more important than shape, or rigging, or texture. I hope that time is behind us now.

Texture is what we see.
Rigging is what we use
Shape is what counts
Promo pics sell

and a large initial clothing set will get them used. 

When they find use, the builders community will start building for them.

you know something I thought about long and hard

use the figures or not.

but can we stop the endless discussion about their percived faults? how many times have we gone round in this circle now?

lets just got on with things.

"you know something I thought about long and hard
use the figures or not.
but can we stop the endless discussion about their percived faults? how many times have we gone round in this circle now?
lets just got on with things."

Khai this all would stop if people here stopped making threads that are for no valid reason other than to convince people to validate their personal & often narrow points of view :

Myopic point of view: I only render in vue and so should the rest of Mankind
Thread:"Why would anyone even bother rendering in firefly??"

Myopic point of view:I paint my own textures  and so should the rest of Mankind
Thread: "Why do people bother with canned mat poses?"

Myopic point of view: I HATE DAZ!! and so should the rest of Mankind
Thread:>>Deleted/Locked by Moderator<<

etc. etc.

Cheers

Quote - Khai this all would stop if people here stopped making threads that are for no valid reason other than to convince people to validate their personal & often narrow points of view

Agreed. But that also describes 99 out of every 100 threads on the entire web.

I like P7 Sydney, I like her face and body shape, I'm in love of her eyes :-)  for me the best default character, I like P7 Simon face, not good looking but naturaly masculine (I think, my male point of view)

Sydney, less her balloons, is a good figure.
Sorry, that are no breasts.

Quote - ...but can we stop the endless discussion about their percived faults? how many times have we gone round in this circle now?

Nope.  It's more fun.

Rearrange the following words into a well known phrase or saying:

Crabs

Smashed

Bag

Of

A

Like

Face 

:) 

Dont write Alyson off just yet :P

Quote - Dont write Alyson off just yet :P

Aw ;)

It would be awesome if you could give Antonia some love too....hint, hint, hint

Laurie

I still think Alyson has lots of potential. Granted, she doesn't look al that hot out of the box but I think she cleans up nicely.

Edit: I try this one.

I did use a little post work on this one by adding in the eyelashes for Alyson in GIMP. Otherwise all rendered.

The dress is another model I created in Blender. I think I'm getting much better with that software.

Quote - I like P7 Sydney, I like her face and body shape, I'm in love of her eyes :-)  for me the best default character, I like P7 Simon face, not good looking but naturaly masculine (I think, my male point of view)

She gets my vote too. I have never morphed her. Don't need to. And ditto with Simon, who is my main male character now. James is my sidekick character.

I never like Sydney, personally. Granted, she's a better looking default figure than Alyson, but Her face, particularly her brow, just seemed to be etched with a permanent frown or scowl. I don't think I've seen a render of her yet without it. I do like Kelvin and Olivia though. I've yet to try and morph Kelvin. I think he looks great the way he is.

Here's the render of Alyson I was trying to post the other day, btw.