I'll probably get laughed out of here but......

I render a scene. Sometimes I can figure out how to save the rendered image and sometimes I can't do it for the life of me. Isn't there a "Save the damn picture" button or a "Hey dumbass...click here" option somewhere?

You haven't said which version of Poser you're using, but most probably the menu option File/Export/Image is what you want.

LOL..no you're not stupid. When your render's finished go to File/Export/Image and save the format you'd like.

Laurie

It's Poser Pro 2012... and THANK YOU. I was dyin' over here.

Actually, in that row of buttons at the top of the View Window is a Render button, an Area Render button and a Tear-Off button. Tear-Off creates a duplicate of what you've just seen rendering.

Counter-intuitively, you click the little 'X' in the upper right hand corner to close it: when it asks whether you want to save it... and you can save it to whichever format you wish.

And if you go beyond the Tear-Off button to the right, there is a small arrow which opens the menu where you can export the rendered image.

Oh! Never-ever looked at that: thanks HBorre...

But "Export" to what? 

I totally identify with MacMyers.  I'm just starting at this and confused as hell about stuff.

Why doesn't Poser Pro simply say "Save" or "Save As" like Photoshop for example. A much more sensible & understandable program.  I'll tell ya, compared to Poser, Photoshop CS5 is "See Spot run" easy. Brain dead simple. 

Quote - Why doesn't Poser Pro simply say "Save" or "Save As" like Photoshop for example.

It does under the "File" menu. But that's for saving the file not the rendered image.

Quote - But "Export" to what?

To anywhere you choose. The "Export" option dropdown menu, also under the "File" menu, gives you the choice to export the image in a variety of formats (png, tiff, etc). Navigate to your desktop, for example and save it there, or to a folder of your choice. You decide.

Yes.. it does... you just have to learn to think in terms of "exporting" the image rather than "saving" it. My short term memory is for shiznit, but the export option is great once you figure it out. I had the instructions tattoed backwards on my forehead so I can read them in the monitor's reflection.

I'm going to need a bigger forehead.

If you're feeling brave, you can edit the Poser.xrc file

(Program FIles/Smith Micro/Poser Pro 2012/Runtime/ui)

to create a key combination to do this. Make a backup first.

This is the chunk of gibberish you need to edit, the line in orange is what you could add as your key combo.

Did I mention that you should create a backup first? Make a backup.

Heheh.... no way. I'm apparently more of a chicken than are you! 

Brilliant - thanks for that, CSpear! I love hacking stuff... I'm not as cautious or prudent as MacMyers. This is really cool to know - you can actually change interface behaviour! WOW! :woot: !!

I already have my own image load as splash... this is all about taking "ownership" of your software. Love It!

Also, make a copy of your 'hacked' Poser.xrc file and keep it somewhere safe. That way, when SR1 comes out and you get all excited and install it without thinking and it overwrites the Poser.xrc file, you'll have a simple fix.

Quote - Also, make a copy of your 'hacked' Poser.xrc file and keep it somewhere safe. That way, when SR1 comes out and you get all excited and install it without thinking and it overwrites the Poser.xrc file, you'll have a simple fix.

Absolutely... that, and my U-Beaut splash-screen mods. I'm glad you mentioned that - something I was meaning to do... :blink:

Users should never apologize or blame themselves for poor usability design on the part of the developers. Everybody who has ever tried to save the results of a render for the first time probably experienced this same frustration. I know I did.

Saving the image that you went to all the trouble of creating is one of the most basic and fundamental things you will ever do with a product like this. Really, that's the essential purpose of the entire software. Yet the "Save my Damn Picture" command is buried in with a bunch of other functions that most users will never use or care about. Even once you stumble upon it, it seems so out of place that you wonder if it is gong to actually do what you are hoping it will do.

This is another example of what happens when you let developers design the interface. Only a developer woud think in terms of exporting an image. A user would think, OK, I've created my image now I want to save it. I'll bet 95% of the users who tried to save their first image expected there to be some kind of File>Save Image... menu function.

Quote - A user would think, OK, I've created my image now I want to save it. I'll bet 95% of the users who tried to save their first image expected there to be some kind of File>Save Image...

A good idea to suggest to Smith Micro, perhaps?

Quote - Also, make a copy of your 'hacked' Poser.xrc file and keep it somewhere safe. That way, when SR1 comes out and you get all excited and install it without thinking and it overwrites the Poser.xrc file, you'll have a simple fix.

Here's an idea. Why doesn't someone who knows all the cool Poser hacks put them in the Poser Wiki? This way it's out there in a google searchable format.

Great idea, Steve! A way-under-utilised resource, that wiki: needs a bit more prominence and exposure. Thanks for reminding me... need to have a look myself on a couple of things...

Hmmm... The Wiki link is just the Poser article in the main Wikipedia site. Is there a Poser wiki?

MacMyers and DegerzeeBoy Here's my a PDF ebook on Poser for Beginners that may be of use.

You are more than welcome to stop by my site for one or all of the free online workshops I'm doing this month.

Wow... Thanks! Off to read!

Quote - > Quote - A user would think, OK, I've created my image now I want to save it. I'll bet 95% of the users who tried to save their first image expected there to be some kind of File>Save Image...

A good idea to suggest to Smith Micro, perhaps?

Yes, that IS a good suggestion! Makes a lot of common sense. 

Do they deliberately make Poser's interface difficult/incomprehensible for novices to navigate?

I've had similar problems just getting started with things which makes it frustrating; if you don't already know what you're doing it's almost like you need an expert beside you to guide you through the darn interface.

I mean I know I'll always be a dumb newbie but Smith Micro doesn't have to rub it in.

We were all newbies once ;). And I don't think any of us Poser users learned it overnight, that's for sure. It was months of "now where WAS that?" before it was committed to memory...lol. Even now (and I've been using it for 12 years) I actually have to open Poser to remember where something is on occasion because I can't do it without looking at the interface :P.

FWIW, I don't think DS is really any easier. And right now I'm learning Blender which, with it's hundreds of shortcut keys, is no picnic...lol. Bryce was a literal nightmare (and still is) among other programs. Vue was the first program I ever used that I felt actually had a user intuitive interface. Way back when. No idea what it's like now.

Laurie

Well, I've struggled with all of those, Laurie... now I'm trying to learn Vue10 Studio, which just has more bells and whistles than 9, so at least they didn't change it all that much.

Quote - Do they deliberately make Poser's interface difficult/incomprehensible for novices to navigate?

I've had similar problems just getting started with things which makes it frustrating; if you don't already know what you're doing it's almost like you need an expert beside you to guide you through the darn interface.

I mean I know I'll always be a dumb newbie but Smith Micro doesn't have to rub it in.

I know EXACTLY how you feel and agree. I kind of feel like Smith Micro may possibly be making it intentionally more difficult out of some elitist nerd thing. Like the unspoken attitude among the software engineers might be "Unless you're a real upper echelon whiz kid like us, you just don't belong here or deserve to use it. So there! yada yada yada." 

But to answer Laura's statement that DAZ isn't any easier, I have to disagree. I'm still going to be learning this stuff for a long long time, but do think that the learning curve is a bit less steep and the UI with DS4  more user friendly.  I still have a lot of questions, but am making more progress with and enjoying DS4 more.  

And the Poser tech support guy I spoke with last week acted like he just didn't want to bother with me when I called for help about installing content. He just tried to rush me off the phone.  So I continued pulling hair and banging my head against a wall, or feeling like I was, for several more hours until I thought, "Screw this, I'm going to give DAZ a try! I've heard all about how great Poser is, but just not liking this!" 

Quote - And the Poser tech support guy I spoke with last week acted like he just didn't want to bother with me when I called for help about installing content. He just tried to rush me off the phone.  So I continued pulling hair and banging my head against a wall, or feeling like I was, for several more hours until I thought, "Screw this, I'm going to give DAZ a try! I've heard all about how great Poser is, but just not liking this!"

Well, there IS always this forum for installing content questions. I personally don't bother with tech support calls - that's with anyone, Microsoft on down... - I learn most from forums, anyway.

And Poser is easier for some, DS easier for others. Different strokes yanno ;).

Laurie

I too think Daz is more User Friendly and intuitive in many areas... but as stated before... with Poser it's what happens when developers develop user interfaces without much user input. Some things, Material Room for Instance, are more complicated because they are much more Powerful. And Faceroom?... fugeddaboutit... nothing cooler and easier to use out there.

I also haven't called Tech Support about anything in years. Forums all the way. Faster and, like around here, the people are smarter and nicer than the techs. Plus you'll never "meet" anyone like Baggins Bill on a Tech Call. Guy is a trip and a half. Plus I'm partial to Rendo products because they don't use any insane rogue installers.

I just got into Poser with 2012... and while I'm struggling a bit... I really see the potential here with all of the built in functionality. You have to learn to think a bit less linearlly ... but it freaks me out how much you can do with the added "complexity".

Ah, time once again for a (somewhat abridged) version of the Klingon Programmer's Code - which every good developer subscribes to.

1. Specifications are for the weak and timid!

2. Indentation?! — I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!

3. What is this talk of ‘release’? Klingons do not make software ‘releases’. Our software ‘escapes’ leaving a bloody trail of quality assurance people in its wake.

4. Klingon function calls do not have ‘parameters’ — they have ‘arguments’ — and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.

5. Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.

6. I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth contest. They will not concern us again.

7. A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!

8. By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to die!

9. You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!

10. Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship it, and let them flee like the dogs they are!
     
     

LOL

Remind me never to come across you in a dark alley :P

Laurie

Poser has all the earmarks of a developer designed interface. (Let's save some time here and just give it a TLA - y'know, a Three Letter Acronym. We'll call it DDI - Developer Designed Interface. I know something about this having been a developer once. Developers tend to design the interface from the perspective of their code, not from the perspective of the user. That's why you will find hair and outfits in the Character library, characters in the Pose library, and nothing (anymore) in the hair library. That's also why you will find the different parts of a bundled product scattered all over your Runtime - a morphing bed in the Characters library, but it's matching nightstand in the Props library, and the different color options for its sheets in Materials and/or Poses. This was not done this way out of consideration for the users, but because it fit into their coding structure. (I realize I'm making this bold statement without ever having seen the code, so I could be wrong. But probably not ;) )

The developer-centric perspective can also be seen in what SM chooses to put in their new releases. When P9 came out, the big selling point that SM was promoting was that it had Weight Mapping and Sub Surface Scattering, which prompted numerous threads asking, "What's Weight Mapping?", and "What's Sub Surface Scattering?" I've read my share of posts here and I don't ever recall seeing one that said, "Man, I sure wish Poser had some kind of Weight Mapping feature." However I have seen lots of threads that pleaded, in one way or another, for better usability. (To be fair, that could be due to my own sampling bias.)

I don’t mean to beat up on Poser or SM exclusively. None of this is uncommon in the high-tech world. These companies and the people who work for them are desperate not to fall behind the curve. Time spent on usability factors is time not spent on adding the latest bell and whistle, and this leads to the kind of elitist impatience that MarkR151 alluded to. From a developer's point of view, users keep asking the same questions over and over, and the developers don't understand why the users haven't figured it out by now.

The only way you’re going to see better usability is for the parent company or its investors to recognize that they are losing market share because users are migrating to more user friendly products, or that they are losing sales and/or upgrades because users are giving up entirely.

So, given all that, I suppose I should forward this little screed to SM., but first I’d like some feedback from the rest of you.

Dunno - I'm just glad that (within limitations) I can set up my runtime the way I want. The only folder I tend not to mess with is the textures folder, but only because you'd have to go into all associated files and change path names. Too-hard basket.

I'm used to Blender. So, Poser's interface is pretty easy, compared to that.

Just sayin... :blink:

By all means ElZagna, forward away to Smith Micro. Go for it. It may help improve the product. If they're willing to listen, and I hope for their sake, they are. 

To lmckenzie,  Yeah, I kinda believe it. lol 

Maybe if I had bribed the SM tech support guy with the heart of a targ and a skin of blood wine, he might've been a bit more cooperative.