By that I mean when a new Poser figure is released, (a new Vicki generation) the previous fades in popularity. I don't know how many more V4 products DAZ plans to release, but it seems the vendors here are still going strong with NEW V4 products.

It's because DAZ as lost a substantial market with Genesis/V5 being exclusive to DAZStudio.

Was she slated to be executed? I hadn't heard that ;).

Laurie

I think instead of V4 riding off into the sunset like daz hoped with Gene smoothly taking over, it turned into what amounts to be an ugly divorce. 

V3 still does my laundry.

Quote - Was she slated to be executed? I hadn't heard that ;).

Laurie

Ahem.

I did tell you.

Just waiting for a block ... :-)

Quote - V3 still does my laundry.

Reminds me of an old joke...  A young couple got married. On their honeymoon, they were very anxious about having sex because they were both virgins. Because of their sexual inexperience, they were a bit uncomfortable discussing the subject so they came up with the term "doing the laundry" to use in place of "having sex." This made them both more comfortable with the whole concept.

However, a week passed, and the day came when he asked "Can we do the laundry?" but she was very tired, and she told him that she just couldn't do it now-maybe in the morning. A few hours later the wife awoke feeling very guilty.
She gently shook him and said, "Honey, I'm sorry. We can do the laundry now if you want,"
He replied, "That's ok; It was a small load. I did it by hand."

Quote - > Quote - Was she slated to be executed? I hadn't heard that ;).

Laurie

Ahem.

I did tell you.

Just waiting for a block ... :-)

You're a harsh taskmaster Mr. Gribbly LOL

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - V3 still does my laundry.

Reminds me of an old joke...  A young couple got married. On their honeymoon, they were very anxious about having sex because they were both virgins. Because of their sexual inexperience, they were a bit uncomfortable discussing the subject so they came up with the term "doing the laundry" to use in place of "having sex." This made them both more comfortable with the whole concept.

However, a week passed, and the day came when he asked "Can we do the laundry?" but she was very tired, and she told him that she just couldn't do it now-maybe in the morning. A few hours later the wife awoke feeling very guilty.
She gently shook him and said, "Honey, I'm sorry. We can do the laundry now if you want,"
He replied, "That's ok; It was a small load. I did it by hand."

I like poses of Mike4 and Vicki4 doing laundry :)

Speaking of that - we could always use more practical poses for Gen4 folks... instead of the ten gazillion model poses

Same here, Laurie.

I thought it was gonna be one of "those" threads, but I'm glad to see everyone in a good mood. Must have been the Mellow Punch on New Year's Eve.

I think of V4 as a nice comfortable  car with only 50,000 miles on it. She's got a ways to go. Economical car, too. V4. Get it?

V4. Got it. Easy on the petrol. Not a gas-guzzler.

Only 50,000? Someone's messed with the odometer. She's got a ton more mileage than that! 30,000 on my system alone... hey!, waddaya tryin' ta sell me, there, bud?

Aaaaand she's a convertible. Looks great with her top down. 

But seriously, folks.

What's that? These jokes are worse than the DAZ / Poser flame wars? OK then... Uh, V4, Antonia, Anastasia, Alice 5 and Genesis walk into a bar...

While V5/Genesis is a product only for D/S, I'll never use it. If comes a Poser version... maybe

Pendant que V5/Genesis est fait pour D/S seulement, je ne m'en servirais jamais, moi non plus. Si jamais on develop une version Poser, et ben... peut-être...

It has nothing to do with different capabilities it has to do with installed base size and habits. E.g. inside our cars there is an engine which is just a refinement of the original one build at the end of ther 19th century. Real changes, like turbines, hydrogen, electric propulsion are still little more than curiosities. The rockets which are launched today are little more than refinements of von Braun's V2. Apart from the Pegasus, there are no working air launch systems and VASIMIRs have not yet flown.

Even if the Genesis thing provided strategic advantages over V4, it would still have to combat the installed base, user investments and user habits.

V4 Support continues ??

Good news for you poser users

Could be Bad news for Antonia though.

Cheers

Quote - It has nothing to do with different capabilities it has to do with installed base size and habits. E.g. inside our cars there is an engine which is just a refinement of the original one build at the end of ther 19th century. Real changes, like turbines, hydrogen, electric propulsion are still little more than curiosities. The rockets which are launched today are little more than refinements of von Braun's V2. Apart from the Pegasus, there are no working air launch systems and VASIMIRs have not yet flown.

Even if the Genesis thing provided strategic advantages over V4, it would still have to combat the installed base, user investments and user habits.

...and until it worked fully, natively in Poser, the whole question is moot.

There are a lot of figures out there I find incredibly appealing. Am I going to run out and get Max to make this figure happen? As in: it doesn't work in my programme of choice, so do I switch to Max? For a figure? Why get it when we have one for Poser already? At a fraction of the price? Doesn't make sense, does it?

Yes, Genesis is awesome. Works really great in DS4.

Not going to invest in Max. Not going to invest in DS4, either.

Quote - V4 Support continues ??

Good news for you poser users

Could be Bad news for Antonia though.

Cheers

Your concern does you credit, Wolf.

Just FYI: Antonia users care about as much whether V4 succeeds or tanks as Linux users care about market share penetration. BFD, mate.

"Just FYI: Antonia users care about as much whether V4 succeeds or"

Certainly you do not speak for all Antonia users  current and prospective.

However the realty remains that Many Assumed that New V4 Content would grind to a halt in favor of Genesis
Creating a Void that **Some **hoped would be filled by Antonia.

If indeed venders Continue to support V4 with new products
then that  presumed "void" May not be so vast after all.

Cheers

Quote - "Just FYI: Antonia users care about as much whether V4 succeeds or"

Certainly you do not speak for all Antonia users  current and prospective.

However the realty remains that Many Assumed that New V4 Content would grind to a halt in favor of Genesis
Creating a Void that **Some **hoped would be filled by Antonia.

If indeed venders Continue to support V4 with new products
then that  presumed "void" May not be so vast after all.
Cheers

Oh, was that your perception? how disappointing for you.

I have a far more encompassing view. It's okay - you wouldn't understand, Wolf. You're figure-centric. You're probably part of the "Many Assumed"...

And yes, I can comfortably speak for Antonia users: we do not hope to dominate some position held by V4. That's your slant on things. Go look up FLOSS and Linux ... does it care?

and then get a grip on what non-figure-centric artists think.

It's not about figure dominance. Well, not anymore. Not to Antonia users. Only to you. Storm in a teacup, mate.

Key point:

"Linux is not interested in market share. Linux does not have customers. Linux does not have shareholders, or a responsibility to the bottom line. Linux was not created to make money. Linux does not have the goal of being the most popular and widespread OS on the planet."

Substitute 'Antonia' for 'Linux' and 'figure' for 'OS' and you've got the idea.

Well I am still spending on V4, although I admit less on clothes unless it is something special.  I have purchased the 'Perfect' items such as Perfect Booty which I think are a real improvement.  I would not be doing this if I expected to stop using her any time soon.

I am looking at the other Poser figures that are arriving on the scene and I have to say I am tempted but they would only be brother's and sisters to Vicky so this would be in addition to my V4 spend.  With the exception of the flame wars that have been generated I think the future looks rosy for 3D creation at the moment with both of the main camps having something new to play with.

V4 has been with us for a long time.

The support for V4 wiil continue for one main reason:
Most users have a long term investment in V4 and are financially way over their point of no return.

The "New figures", Alyson2 and family, Antonia; while being recent creations bring no revolution.
OK, better Poly distribution, better rigging, but nothing "NEW".

Nothing of the magnitude to justify the turn away from V4's thousands and thousands of dollar investment.

Untill a revoutionary new figure family is developped, using all of Posers new features, V4 will stay on her throne. 

Genesis/V5? Sorry, her own creator killed her by making her NOT Poser compatible.
That story is finished. Finished before it started actually.
She never stood a chance.

And I said it somewhere else already; Now it is too late.
You can NOT unscramble scrambled eggs. Perod.

"and then get a grip on what non-figure-centric artists think."

Actually I am not "figure centric" at all
(check My online galleries& Reels)

I am more of a "feature centric" user:
Fluid Simulation ,usable hair system Viable graph editor& Dope sheet , Fast GI, Collision Dynamics.etc

But all of the Drama over G******s would seem to indicate that indeed Many here are "Figure centric" and  the near universal Dismissal of the native poser figures
(notable exception by Blackhearted)
would indicate this also.
Thats the reality and continued V4 support will reduce  many poser user desire/need to invest in an alternative figure IMHO.

Try not to be so emotionally Defensive/sensitive about a figure( Antonia) you Did not even create.

Cheers.

I seriously don't care, Wolf. you brought it up. You seem to care. Your issue, not mine.

Quote - V4 Support continues ??

Good news for you poser users

Could be Bad news for Antonia though

Cheers

Not bad news... except to you.

What Wolf - bless his heart - appears to be missing is that this distro of Antonia made a point. Wolf, what was that point?

"I seriously don't care, Wolf"

Glad to hear this

Cheers

Quote - V4 Support continues ??

Good news for you poser users

Could be Bad news for Antonia though.

 

 

Cheers

Well, it's like this (and I don't think I'm that uncommon, tho perhaps a rarity...lol), the V's have never kept me from using other figures so I'm thinking Antonia will still get used :). Anastasia is probably Antonia's biggest foe right now (Vicky's always been on top) and even then, I'm thinking Ana and Antonia will both be used by the same people, depending on the project :)

Laurie

** "The "New figures", Alyson2 and family, Antonia; while being recent creations bring no revolution.
OK, better Poly distribution, better rigging, but nothing "NEW".**

Nothing of the magnitude to justify the turn away from V4's thousands and thousands of dollar investment.
"
Your point of view has been expressed by many in these forums

"appears to be missing is that this distro of Antonia made a point. Wolf, what was that....."

OK Sorry Robyn
you clearly are very emotionally (almost religiously) attached to the "Antonia project".

Much more than I could have ever imagined.

Relax

step back

get some perspective

and Enjoy your weekend.

Cheers

I use a bunch of different figures and I ain't afraid to admit it! LOL. Out of all the figures I do use, I probably use Vicky 4 the least Trust me, she's not lacking for anything, she just doesn't get to go out as much...lol.

I really don't see why we can't use whatever figures we want whenever the need arises and not feel weird about it. Seems kinda silly to me ;).

Laurie

Posette, V1, V2, V3, V4 and their assorted Mikes, Stephanies and Aikos have all been executed but they keep coming back.

This is the Zombie Apocalypse we were all expecting! :scared:

Quote - Posette, V1, V2, V3, V4 and their assorted Mikes, Stephanies and Aikos have all been executed but they keep coming back.

This is the Zombie Apocalypse we were all expecting! :scared:

It has begun :P

Laurie

A quickie for people having a hardon thinking that Antonia cannot displace V4: if Antonia cannot (nearly free, working both in Poser and Studio) even less can Genesis (expensive and working only in Studio).

V4 still caters for the needs of most users and is still highly supported; add to this that people have a huge, 6 years investment on it. If a substitution will happen, it will not be a fast thing like in the past (I foresee some years after a dominating new figure emerges). I would not be surprised if V4 was actually an immortal zombie grumbling "SWOOOOOORDS!!!".

I don't know.....I thought ALTERNATIVES were a good thing.  Seriously, is anyone around here hoping for the character monoply to continue? 

The promise is and always was that you should have a choice in characters you wish to use.  Now that Antonia has clothes and character sets, choice has been expanded.

I thought the point was to break up the monopoly and Antonia appears to be wildly successful in that endeavor.

I wasn't under the impression that V4 was slated for execution by anyone......just some friendly competition.

Competition is GOOD!

Quote - Nothing wrong with having a favorite figure - though some otherwise rational folks do seem to have gotten rather ummmh...

I think Vicky's just worried about having to compete to retain her crown. 

With the availability of all the "fix" files and weight mapping for V4, she is now "sort of" like a new character. Sort of. Except all my old content stills works with her. Hmmm. That's a plus. I may just keep her in my runtime. My only concern for V4 is the question: "Is Daz vendictive enough the pull V4 and her morph pack, forcing new users to move to something else?"

As to Antonia and Anastasia, I've got them both. I have a favorite. It is Ana.

As I see the way this battle shapes up, it comes down, as always, to what people want, and what they are able to do for themselves.

My guess is, the people who will embrace Antonia are those who are fully capable of modeling and making the changes they desire to her underlying mesh themselves. The fact that she is open soiurce appeals to this sort of user, and I'm sure she will be their choice. For those of us not so tallented, then the figure is less appealing. She is not a pretty girl "out of the box" and I've seen no characters offered for her (either free or for pay) that solve this problem. The morph sets out there are less than wonderful IMHO, and there are many different sets. Too many. How in the world is a modeller going to make anything not knowing what morphs the user has? 

Anastasia has the advantage (and yes, it IS an advantage... it spells STANDARDS) of having a single creator, through whom there are "official" morphs and upgrades. This means that modellers can create for her and KNOW that their works will play nicely with the character. There is an extant base of different faces for her (for those who don't have the skills to make them.) The biggest selling point for me is how her figure morphs. I've gritched endlessly here in the forums about Poser girls having "invisible bras." Ana does not. She has heard about gravity, and her body responds in kind.

All this said, all three of these ladies are going to stay in my runtime. You don't throw out anything this good!

America will have a Queen before DAZ will be able to force anyone into a half working "something else".

Thanks for the smile.

Quote - My only concern for V4 is the question: "Is Daz vendictive enough the pull V4 and her morph pack, forcing new users to move to something else?"

They do that and:

1.  There will be heck to pay with their customer base.  Word of mouth and people spiteful to keep newcomers from going to daz would ruin their reputation for years.  Plus they wouldn't have something that would act as a bridge from poser to DS.  IE if you like V4 you'll love V5. 

2.  V4 and her morphs would become instant pirate-site booty.  I'm not condoning it, I'll even go so far to say that it is outright bad to do.  Still, the fact remains that if people want V4, they will simply find the free way to get her.  And all those characters and clothing.  I mean if you've already taken the step to pirate v4 (wrong) you  might as well steal all the characters and outfits while you are at it (even worse).  Which would piss off the merchants that Daz needs to support their characters.

3.  You've just dared someone like blackhearted or the people who made antonia to make a poser friendly v4 successor that doesn't have all the baggage that goes with daz.  I mean suddenly, the RMP or RNDA might have a good reason to create their own new poser friendly character that's daz-free.

4.  I'm pretty sure V4 is still making daz money, they pull her too soon and they will lose all that money coming in.  And the money people would spend over at daz on characters and clothing because they can't get v4 anymore and they don't use DS4.

5.  Gene can use the v4 textures, but you'd lose the head morphs for your characters.  Then you'd be spending hours on end trying to get something that looks kinda like Alice, but you'll never get it quite right.

Daz definately wants v4 to be phased out.  They wouldn't have invested heavily in gene if they didn't.  Still, you should assuming they don't have their heads so far up their butts to stop selling V4 at this time at least.

Quote - Daz definately wants v4 to be phased out.  They wouldn't have invested heavily in gene if they didn't.  Still, you should assuming they don't have their heads so far up their butts to stop selling V4 at this time at least.

I agree 100% with all of your points, Claw. My concern is not for the next six months, but out beyond that. At least until something else emerges as the clear way to go. I do know this... had it not been for V3, I would not have stayed with this hobby. The other figures available just had no support at all, and to a newbie, the vendors drive what is used. That is to say, if I can't buy it, I'm out of luck.

BTW--- what DO you get when you cross and owl with a bungee cord?

I cant really say the flap about G has anything to do with being figure centric, rather with being program centric, and fond of our allready invested dollars.  In your previous posts you completely miss the point of the Project with Antonia.  The Antonia standard and WM group are the same folks who have been working hard on a propper re-rig of v4 for poser 9/2012.  Why do that if v4 is competition.  Its not about competition its about offering choice.  Its about the principle that single figure dominance is an unhealthy, creativity destroying thing that needs to change for the health of the poser comunity.  Poser 9/2012 offers some amazing stuff and people pushing figures like antonia, anastasia etc want to see supported figures that make use of that amzing stuff.

Quote - "and then get a grip on what non-figure-centric artists think."

Actually I am not "figure centric" at all
(check My online galleries& Reels)

I am more of a "feature centric" user:
Fluid Simulation ,usable hair system Viable graph editor& Dope sheet , Fast GI, Collision Dynamics.etc

But all of the Drama over G******s would seem to indicate that indeed Many here are "Figure centric" and  the near universal Dismissal of the native poser figures
(notable exception by Blackhearted)
would indicate this also.
Thats the reality and continued V4 support will reduce  many poser user desire/need to invest in an alternative figure IMHO.

Try not to be so emotionally Defensive/sensitive about a figure( Antonia) you Did not even create.

Cheers.

i doubt that DAZ expected V5 to be a runaway hit and that everyone would embrace Studio with open arms. They have been around too long and know us too well to expect that great of a reception. Rather I think they are taking their figures in a new direction and are about at the level of DAZ Studio 1's acceptance.

 Thanks for the Laugh! V3 recently was invited back into my renders-she has forgiven me for forgetting her. :-)

Quote - V3 still does my laundry.

All-

I don't have any "investment" in Antonia. I do think she is more usable now that she has been weight mapped. V4 is going through a similar process. Me? I will be more likely to use V4-WM because she has more polygons for morphing in Zbrush. Blackhearted "moved nearly every polygon" in Alyson2 to make her move more fluidly-as well as made the lovely morphs.  Antonia-WM is another figure to use. I applaud the people who were involved in making the mesh, and making all the efforts to make her into Antonia-WM-a free figure.

Quote - Untill a revoutionary new figure family is developped, using all of Posers new features, V4 will stay on her throne. 

So, what new Poser 9/2012 features would you expect to see in a new revolutionary figure?

Quote - > Quote - Untill a revoutionary new figure family is developped, using all of Posers new features, V4 will stay on her throne. 

So, what new Poser 9/2012 features would you expect to see in a new revolutionary figure?

I agree.

Anastasia has each toe boned, and Antonia's feet include the new Poser rigging system... both are weightmapped. What is it that Poser can do that these figures do not embrace?