Quote - I cant really say the flap about G has anything to do with being figure centric, rather with being program centric, and fond of our allready invested dollars.  In your previous posts you completely miss the point of the Project with Antonia.  The Antonia standard and WM group are the same folks who have been working hard on a proper re-rig of v4 for poser 9/2012.  Why do that if v4 is competition.  Its not about competition its about offering choice.  Its about the principle that single figure dominance is an unhealthy, creativity destroying thing that needs to change for the health of the Poser community.  Poser 9/2012 offers some amazing stuff and people pushing figures like antonia, anastasia etc want to see supported figures that make use of that amzing stuff.

Thank you, meatSim. Concisely, precisely put.

That is the point.

Keep it friendly or it will be locked and I'll be giving warnings.

Quote -

Keep it friendly or it will be locked and I'll be giving warnings.

THANK heavens!

Laurie

Sorry... :crying:

 It's no one in particular, it's just that the bickering in this place is over the top. sigh

We all can't like the same things. It used to be ok 

Laurie

Ah, now this is more like what I was expecting when I first popped into this thread, mod warning and all. Funny how it always seems to go there. :( Can't we all just play with the Barbies we like and not worry about which Barbie someody else is playing with?

(The Barbie references aren't accidental. I remember my younger sister and her friend playing, and putting down each other's Barbies. Got pretty heated at times!)

I'm glad to see most of the clothing for Antonia is at least halfway realistic rather than more umm, skankware?  I like the figure, she bends well, got the Poppy for her, pretty nice.  I've never really liked V4, therefore, haven't spent much on her or on M4.  And I don't look at her as in competition with V4, but as an addition. 

  I only wish Meipe & I had found each other earlier... we could've made V4 "fixed" so much earlier, when she was in her prime. Oh well, better later than never! ;) V4 shall live on!

Xameva-

Your efforts make for a nicely bending V4. I bought a couple of your fixes. Between these and a WM V4. She has a lot of life.

Quote -   I only wish Meipe & I had found each other earlier... we could've made V4 "fixed" so much earlier, when she was in her prime. Oh well, better later than never! ;) V4 shall live on!

 

In the old days, computing was very application-centric. Each application was the focus of data created in and only consumed by that program. Things have evolved to a more data-centric approach where the application is subordinate to data. You can create a spreadsheet in one application and easily incorporate it into a word processing document etc. I think that ‘figure-centric’ is analogous to data-centric. To the extent that figures are limited to or optimized for a specific application, they are application-centric. The latter works well for users who wish to do everything in one application. It also is in the interest of application vendors who naturally want to promote their own products. Whether it is in the best interests of the ecosystem, as a whole, is another question. I would argue that being largely application-centric is a liability for 3D, especially at the hobbyist level. It discourages users from exploring other options and at best, makes them more reliant on others creating complex conversions. It’s great if you want to keep parishioners in the one true church – not so great if you’re an EpiscoQuakerWiccan or an agnostic.

Until/unless there is a vendor consensus, and until everyone has abandoned their pre DS4/P9/2012 applications, V4 will remain viable. In a world of Blu-ray and video downloads, she will soldier on for a good while like DVD. It will take a long time for anyone to match her popularity and infrastructure. Having multiple usurper candidates only dilutes the competition. It’s difficult to predict because this is really the first time since Posette’s semi-retirement (they never get executed!), that a clear successor hasn’t been pretty much a given. Still, if on the one side you have V4 and Antonia (who can play anywhere), and on the other you have V4WM, V5, AntoniaWM and Anastasia (application-centric), it doesn’t seem unrealistic to suggest that V4 (& her WM variant) is a good bet.

Xameva -

quote] I only wish Meipe & I had found each other earlier... we could've made V4 "fixed" so much earlier, when she was in her prime. Oh well, better later than never! ;) V4 shall live on!

I can understand the comment but there are two ways of looking at this, I am very thankful that you and Meipe DID find each other and certainly better late than never.  V4 is is now looking much fitter and has a new lease of life and will stay in my runtime for a good while yet.  Please continue to fix whatever you can I am sure there will be a good market for them for a long while.

"Until/unless there is a vendor consensus, and until everyone has abandoned their pre DS4/P9/2012 applications, V4 will remain viable. In a world of Blu-ray and video downloads, she will soldier on for a good while like DVD. It will take a long time for anyone to match her popularity and infrastructure."

Quoted for Agreement!!

I think the DAZ studio users& vendors may be "forced" to abandon older versions due to the obvious DS4 Only, nature of G*****s
One could make the argument that this "enforced" standard
may be good for their market as vendors are only required to follow one standard in content development.
 
But on the poser side I think it will be many years before we see the majority of users running a versions that supports "weightmapping" as long as their are figures &content being created for the older legacy versions.

Cheers

"

Quote - "
Was she slated to be executed? I hadn't heard that ;).

Laurie"

She's been accused of dispatching V3.  But the jury is not out yet.  V3 may yet be weight mapped and re rigged and actually rise like the  phoenix (whatever the phoenix is or was)

Quote - Quoted for Agreement!!

I think the DAZ studio users& vendors may be "forced" to abandon older versions due to the obvious DS4 Only, nature of G*****s
One could make the argument that this "enforced" standard
may be good for their market as vendors are only required to follow one standard in content development.
 
But on the poser side I think it will be many years before we see the majority of users running a versions that supports "weightmapping" as long as their are figures &content being created for the older legacy versions.

Cheers

But, you've made your own argument why it's probably NOT a good thing for their market by this statement alone:

Quote - I think it will be many years before we see the majority of users running a versions that supports....

The same argument applies to DS4.  Or do you think it's just Poser users who are slow to upgrade to the newest/greatest piece of software?

Quote - Substitute 'Antonia' for 'Linux' and 'figure' for 'OS' and you've got the idea.

Err, sorry, but not quite. I get the community aspect, but unless it becomes licensed under the GPL, it's nothing like Linux.

Read the GPL sometime. It states that not only must the original binaries and source remain free, but that all modifications must also be released under the same license, and the same terms. I'm very sure this isn't the case.

As for marketshare, Linux holds the largest share among all OSes. Of course, you have to go beyond desktops and include all devices that hold an operating system (even as firmware): this includes servers, mainframes, embedded (where the bulk of it lives), etc. 

Getting away from the metaphor for a moment, there is something else to consider.

Without sufficient public support, a community project will eventually die. In order to get that support, you have to have... well, people. Not marketshare mind you, but mindshare. Even open source projects are not immune to this. For proof, go look up the Linux Agenda PDA (I used to have one). It died off in 2001 due to not having enough participation from the community. The distro called Linux Familiar (for Compaq PocketPC PDAs) eventually died off for the same reason. The Fluxbox desktop environment for Linux died off due to lack of participation, as developers decided to settle on Gnome or KDE. 

So Wolf was right on the money... without support and participation, the project will die.

See also Neftoon Gal, Apollo Maximus, Alexa, Sara, Terai Yuki, Kururu, Natalia, Aiko (the original mesh, not A3), F-202, Dina, Aeon, Koshini, and (the just released) Mariko at Animotions... there's a whole heap of 'em in there, now long lost and rarely if ever supported. 

All of them started with a bang, many of them whipped up some support, but like the rest, they mostly died from lack of mindshare. Some held out longer than others (Apollo and TY2 still hang on somewhat), but let's face it, they're pretty much dead to all but a few. 

Unless you want Antonia to end up with the same fate, I strongly suggest getting out there, advertising, and making a buttload of freebies that are useful. I would also suggest reaching out beyond your comfort zone; e.g. get your ass onto Renderotica (a few of you hang out there) and make stuff for it along those lines. IMHO, make the face a lot more flexible, without charging for it. 

Getting back to the metaphor, Linux gained in strength because for the first few years of its existence, you didn't pay a dime to get the whole distro, and all of its add-ons. Only only had to pay something if you wanted custom code for your own needs, in which case you had someone do it for you for a fee.  For the very longest time (up until around 5 years ago), the only practical way to make money from Linux was to give everything away and charge for support. Even now, that business model comprises the bulk of Red Hat's income (RH being the most successful pure Linux corp out there).

If you want Antonia to succeed, I suggest getting up a larger core of stuff that the community gets for free. DAZ can charge for things like Morphs++ packages because they have a customer base willing to pay for it. OTOH, you guys don't (yet) have that luxury. 

"But, you've made your own argument why it's probably NOT a good thing for their market by this statement alone:"

No... I have not
DS4 is the G*****s platform
an exclusive DAZ  PA using their CCT would always benefit from having to support one version of the program and the main figure
as they only have to do the tedious work once.

This goes for plugin development for C4D, MAX or app development for smart phones& tablets.

As an Example You can not  run the latest  Cool Android or IPhone Apps on android 1.2 or  apple IOS 2.

As users of these devices we have very little choice but to run the latest or fairly recent version of the core software and app developers are not interested in duplicating their efforts making multiple versions of the same app for people who
choose to stick with the older versions.

Daz IMHO seems to be following the same model as they even refuse to allow one to obtain an older copy of DS
all links even on CNET.com  take you to DS4.

"The same argument applies to DS4.  Or do you think it's just Poser users who are slow to upgrade to the newest/greatest piece of software?"

Well its not really a matter of poser user being "slow to upgrade"

It is a matter of  Vestigial poser figure tech (up until P9/2012), remaining stuck in the previous century thus allowing the poser user base the luxury of not upgrading for many years.

Look at P9/PP2012 for example,
we already have excellent alternative render engine for poser (Vue/LUX)
so any firefly improvement offers little incentive to upgrade.

so the big "new" feature is weight mapping.

But even the with new weight mapped figures  like Antonia being created they still have a "standard " version based on the Old joint system competing with its weight mapped counter part for vendor support.

I am not making any Judgments about which approach is better etc.

Just pointing out that DS users are being somewhat 'forced" into the newer  program versions at a faster pace than poser user are.

Cheers

And I agree wolf. But I really don't look down on who's using what for how long. In the end this is a hobby and only a few use it for commerical purposes. The main user is the guy sitting at his computer after work, just trying to have fun and relax. Who cares how? LOL

AFAIK, it's not worth getting all bent out of shape over.

Laurie

Who's this Victoria y'all speak of? I got this great friend named Terai Yuki. She's cute, I tell ya.

Quote - The main user is the guy sitting at his computer after work, just trying to have fun and relax.

Laurie

Certainly describes me very well though I am not usually in the main part of anything.  I hope this doesn't mean Iwill start becoming 'normal'

"And I agree wolf. But I really don't look down on who's using what for how long"

Of course not!!
 we use what we can afford and what is getting the job done.

SM is at poser 9 - I am running poser 6
Maxon is at C4D R13 - I am still on version 11

Adobe is at CS5 -I am still running CS3

Apple/Mac is on OS 10.7- I am still On OS 10.4

Those are my personal/Economic choices for now at least.

But I do realize that I am being deprived of alot of the new features/plugins and I dont Blame Maxon, Adobe Apple, et al.,
For moving forward with incompatible tech/versions and "strongly encouraging" users to upgrade.

Cheers

I don't know what Poser figure will be used the most in say 5 years, but I do think that new Poser users at that time will be directed by us to get Victoria 4 because her library is/will be, HUGE!

Quote - And I agree wolf. But I really don't look down on who's using what for how long. In the end this is a hobby and only a few use it for commerical purposes. The main user is the guy sitting at his computer after work, just trying to have fun and relax. Who cares how? LOL

AFAIK, it's not worth getting all bent out of shape over.

Laurie

I don't look down on anyone either.  I was simply pointing out the fallacy of his argument.  Quite simply it's indefensible, no matter how hard he tries.

Folks who want to upgrade either program are going to upgrade.  Genesis and weight mapping are not the motivators, they are side effects.

It boils down to money and desire.  Period.

And, quite frankly, I'm an exDS user.  Still use DS occassionally - DS3A.  I didn't, and don't intend to, upgrade to DS4.  My reasons are my own, but not all DS users are being "forced" to upgrade.

I just don't use DS3 to render as Poser has superior rendering capablities, in my opinion.

Quote - Err, sorry, but not quite. I get the community aspect, but unless it becomes licensed under the GPL, it's nothing like Linux.

Read the GPL sometime. It states that not only must the original binaries and source remain free, but that all modifications must also be released under the same license, and the same terms. I'm very sure this isn't the case.

Thje GPL is not the only open-source license. Here is a list of some... http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html

The Linux Kernel is licensed under GPL V2, which only requires that the source code of modified versions be made available to the program's users, not to the general public (Although if someone acquires a binary by whatever means, they are entitled to a copy of the source).  This was modified in GPL V3 to require that the modified source had to be available to the public.  Both versions allow the sale of modified versions, provided the source is made available as above.

Antonia herself is licensed under the CC3 license; this is a public domain license rather than an open-source license, and is thus less restrictive...

Quote -
But even the with new weight mapped figures  like Antonia being created they still have a "standard " version based on the Old joint system competing with its weight mapped counter part for vendor support.

 

From my experience working with antonia WM.  The standard version doesnt really compete for developer time.  For every thing that I have worked with, rigging stuff to work with Antonia~WM is so simple as to be an almost trivial task.  If they have the skill to set up a product to work on Antonia standard it is almost a no brainer to do a quick run through the setup room for Antonia~WM as well.  Now I have never released anything so I cant speak to what work goes on past my hobbyist efforts, but once fitting and grouping is done Antonia~WM pretty much rigs the clothes for you.  I havent even had to adjust the weightmapping or anything

"was simply pointing out the fallacy of his argument.  Quite simply it's indefensible,.......
And, quite frankly, I'm an exDS user.  Still use DS occassionally - DS3A.  I didn't, and don't intend to, upgrade to DS4.  "

OK we've heard from the  "Ex DS user"

But current DS users who are intersted G*****s,V5 Reality2  (LUX render Plugin)  and who know what else ( Infinito, Animate2)??),
will have to upgrade to DS4

You seem determined to Defeat me in some sort of "Debate"
 I am not here to Debate you citizen

I am a just making the  personal observation that in general it is more Difficult for the actual DS user (Not you ) to Stay with older versions of DS  and have full access the latest Content(V5 etc) and plugins.

since you have fixated on the term "Forced" Lets just say
( unlike good old poser),DAZ's lack of backward compatibility Severely limits their choices if they dont upgrade often.

Cheers

Counterexample: OSX is build upon BSD kernel and, market share wise, it is much more successful than all Linux distributions added together.

CC3 license is for data nearly the exact equivalent of what BSD license is for code.

There is one figure no body mentions : Miki3

What about Miki 3 ????

Just asking and wondring.

Quote - "was simply pointing out the fallacy of his argument.  Quite simply it's indefensible,.......
And, quite frankly, I'm an exDS user.  Still use DS occassionally - DS3A.  I didn't, and don't intend to, upgrade to DS4.  "

OK we've heard from the  "Ex DS user"

But current DS users who are intersted G*****s,V5 Reality2  (LUX render Plugin)  and who know what else ( Infinito, Animate2)??),
will have to upgrade to DS4

You seem determined to Defeat me in some sort of "Debate"
 I am not here to Debate you citizen

I am a just making the  personal observation that in general it is more Difficult for the actual DS user (Not you ) to Stay with older versions of DS  and have full access the latest Content(V5 etc) and plugins.

since you have fixated on the term "Forced" Lets just say
( unlike good old poser),DAZ's lack of backward compatibility Severely limits their choices if they dont upgrade often.

Cheers

I agree with limitations....I can still use Reality and Animate in my version of DS3.  I don't, but I can.

And, I have no desire to "debate" anything.  I was just pointing out the fallacies in your argument. 

The only thing I can't use in DS3A is Genesis. 

So, I don't consider that single item as a severe limitation.

No more severe than Poser users who do not have weight mapping capablities.

Quote - There is one figure no body mentions : Miki3

What about Miki 3 ????

Just asking and wondring.

I feel bad that I was one of the early adopters of Miki 3, and I don't use her much at all. I do, however, use the hair props that come with her, as they're both really good.

"Counterexample: OSX is build upon BSD kernel and, market share wise, it is much more successful than all Linux distributions added together.
"

HI Consider that OSX Never had to Market itself as a "Linux variant"
it had the advantage an existing, Rabidly Loyal, user base Migrating up from Mac OS9
and Apple took great steps to "protect" its users behind a shiny ,bubbly interface where they would never having to type a single Command line unless they chose to enable "root user" and open the "terminal app"

(p.s.  as a lifelong mac user I am immune from being accused of Mac bashing)

Cheers

Quote -
Antonia herself is licensed under the CC3 license; this is a public domain license rather than an open-source license, and is thus less restrictive...

Less restrictive to who? The merchant perhaps, but certainly not the end-user. After all, any derivatives are easily locked-down.

I contend that the GPL is why Linux is still a powerhouse (and the most open) among FLOSS solutions, and will continue to be so. 

==

Quote - Counterexample: OSX is build upon BSD kernel and, market share wise, it is much more successful than all Linux distributions added together.

Money-wise, sure it is - marketshare-wise, it is decidedly not. You also forget... Apple was (and is) a marketing and technological force well beyond the Antonia team's abilities (and resources), and has been for decades now.

Quote - CC3 license is for data nearly the exact equivalent of what BSD license is for code.

So why not use the BSD license? 

Quote - > Quote - Substitute 'Antonia' for 'Linux' and 'figure' for 'OS' and you've got the idea.

 

Err, sorry, but not quite. I get the community aspect, but unless it becomes licensed under the GPL, it's nothing like Linux.

Read the GPL sometime. It states that not only must the original binaries and source remain free, but that all modifications must also be released under the same license, and the same terms. I'm very sure this isn't the case.

As for marketshare, Linux holds the largest share among all OSes. Of course, you have to go beyond desktops and include all devices that hold an operating system (even as firmware): this includes servers, mainframes, embedded (where the bulk of it lives), etc. 

Getting away from the metaphor for a moment, there is something else to consider.

Without sufficient public support, a community project will eventually die. In order to get that support, you have to have... well, people. Not marketshare mind you, but mindshare. Even open source projects are not immune to this. For proof, go look up the Linux Agenda PDA (I used to have one). It died off in 2001 due to not having enough participation from the community. The distro called Linux Familiar (for Compaq PocketPC PDAs) eventually died off for the same reason. The Fluxbox desktop environment for Linux died off due to lack of participation, as developers decided to settle on Gnome or KDE. 

So Wolf was right on the money... without support and participation, the project will die.

See also Neftoon Gal, Apollo Maximus, Alexa, Sara, Terai Yuki, Kururu, Natalia, Aiko (the original mesh, not A3), F-202, Dina, Aeon, Koshini, and (the just released) Mariko at Animotions... there's a whole heap of 'em in there, now long lost and rarely if ever supported. 

All of them started with a bang, many of them whipped up some support, but like the rest, they mostly died from lack of mindshare. Some held out longer than others (Apollo and TY2 still hang on somewhat), but let's face it, they're pretty much dead to all but a few. 

Unless you want Antonia to end up with the same fate, I strongly suggest getting out there, advertising, and making a buttload of freebies that are useful. I would also suggest reaching out beyond your comfort zone; e.g. get your ass onto Renderotica (a few of you hang out there) and make stuff for it along those lines. IMHO, make the face a lot more flexible, without charging for it. 

 

Getting back to the metaphor, Linux gained in strength because for the first few years of its existence, you didn't pay a dime to get the whole distro, and all of its add-ons. Only only had to pay something if you wanted custom code for your own needs, in which case you had someone do it for you for a fee.  For the very longest time (up until around 5 years ago), the only practical way to make money from Linux was to give everything away and charge for support. Even now, that business model comprises the bulk of Red Hat's income (RH being the most successful pure Linux corp out there).

If you want Antonia to succeed, I suggest getting up a larger core of stuff that the community gets for free. DAZ can charge for things like Morphs++ packages because they have a customer base willing to pay for it. OTOH, you guys don't (yet) have that luxury.

I've been asked to keep myself nice. So I will. But you don't get the point.

I'm going to say I don't really care if V4 survives or not.  Not that it's a terrible figure, if that kind of figure is what you want, but the support for it, probably 95 out of 100 items released for it are things I won't have any interest in.  Fantasy, armor, skankwear, not what I'm looking for and nobody has or can explain why I should. 

V5/Genesis, I consider totally a DS4 thing, and so far, DS4 has been impressive in how easily it will crash in the computer I have it in.  Granted, eMachines, 1.6 ghz with only 4 Gig memory, but it's impossible to learn when it keeps crashing with nothing to say what I did to cause the crash. If I had any paid version and plugins, I would be far less happy.  Staying with Poser makes more sense in my case as I'm unwilling to put the program in another computer, I don't believe the results would change.

I like the Antonia WM figure, the classic body seems more realistic compared with what my eyes see every day.  She bends well, what clothing is available for her works well and is at least something you might see real people wearing, so far.  I know that will change, and I'm in no hurry to see it.  As long as the clothing covers to the degree I'm reproducing, in my mind that's good, although there are those that will disagree with my choices, such is their right, as is it my right to pursue the course I'm on. 

As long as I get the result I'm looking for, what figure I use to reach that result means diddly squat.

Quote - > Quote -

Antonia herself is licensed under the CC3 license; this is a public domain license rather than an open-source license, and is thus less restrictive...

Less restrictive to who? The merchant perhaps, but certainly not the end-user. After all, any derivatives are easily locked-down.

I contend that the GPL is why Linux is still a powerhouse (and the most open) among FLOSS solutions, and will continue to be so. 

 

The GPL is very restrictive; Using the example of a figure, since conforming clothing uses the figure's grouping and rigging, any conforming clothing for a GPL licensed figure would also be GPL licensed...

Robyn, you are absolutely right.

Support for Antoina has to come NOW.

NOW, as in ; R I G H T   N O W.

Antinia, (or any other figure for that matter) HAS to build her reputation **BEFORE **Genesis/V5 becomes operational in Poser.

A figure that can not make his/her name before Genesis/V5 comes into play, is doomed to rest in piece.

DAZ Genething is nothing to worry about.

But a fully operational Poser - Genesis/V5 will take over the market, you can bet on that.

Quote -
But a fully operational Poser - Genesis/V5 will take over the market, you can bet on that.

 

But a fully operational Poser-Genesis/V5 will take another year or 2 - if ever

So there is still some time

Quote - " Quote - "
Was she slated to be executed? I hadn't heard that ;).

Laurie"

 

She's been accused of dispatching V3.  But the jury is not out yet.  V3 may yet be weight mapped and re rigged and actually rise like the  phoenix (whatever the phoenix is or was)

I'll be the first to admit that I could be completely off-base here. I used Linux (as opposed to other, for-pay OSes) to sort-of illustrate - probably not really well - where most Antonia users are about their figure vs other figures. Linux users in general - and the whole Linux mindset - doesn't care about market penetration. If you'd read that article I posted a link to, that would have been clear.

Antonia represents choice. Now, users have had choice before - Miki3 / Mariko / other for-pay figures - but what Antonia re-surfacing as a finished, standardised figure was meant to represent was that Poser users didn't need to wait for a content creator who was focused on making the next version of a series of figures they'd come to depend as an application-specific figure (i.e., requires DS4 to work properly), to condescend to make a version of this figure for their programme of choice. Antonia works brilliantly well in Poser as is. And the weight-mapped version showcases Poser's weightmapping system brilliantly well.

That's it.

Whether Antonia becomes the next V4 in terms of popularity is completely immaterial. She has already achieved her goal: she was the first figure to highlight was the newest version Poser can do (Dregon aside - haven't really heard much about that one, anyway).
Figure creators have been inspired and new figures are on the horizon because Antonia has shown that the potential of viability of a non-Millenium series figure is significantly more assured than it has been in the past, naysayers notwithstanding.

What is significant is that the focus in no longer on a figure or a series of figures: it's on the programme and associated technology. DS4 and Genesis offer a complete solution ... and Poser 9 / PP2012 are doing the same as new figures (and re-rigged, weightmapped older figures) take advantage of the technology offered by this programme.

Damn, and no one's mentioned Android (also Linux). I'm miffed

Back to lurking and watching....

Laurie

Quote - Damn, and no one's mentioned Android (also Linux). I'm miffed

Back to lurking and watching....

Laurie

I so want to get an Android tablet, too! Do you have one? Are they worth it? Is this just a wee bit off-topic? :unsure:

Quote - Look at P9/PP2012 for example,
we already have excellent alternative render engine for poser (Vue/LUX)
so any firefly improvement offers little incentive to upgrade.

I must disagree. I have neither the money for Vue nor the time to fiddle with Lux. Firefly is what I depend on. I suspect I am far nearer the average Poser user in this stance than you might imagine.

For all that has been touted about multiple program workflow, I'm willing to bet that Poser users do "everything" in Poser by at least 100 to 1. Can't prove it, but would be interested to see some research in this area.

Power users are just that: Power users. By definition they are rare.

Quote - I so want to get an Android tablet, too! Do you have one? Are they worth it? Is this just a wee bit off-topic? :unsure:

In the last month I've gotten a Nook Color (which I've rooted to an Android tablet) and a first gen iPad...lmao.

Don't ask me which I love more. I don't think I could tell you :P.

Back to our regularly scheduled difference of opinion.... ;)

Laurie

Earl Clark did Android with Poser;I don't know if she runs Linux...

http://clark.freehostia.com/Downloads.html

WandW...

Reminds me... we left "Clark" off the list of abandoned figures.

Clark is still available. I've always seen him as a niche figure, like Aonedoll's figures...

OT:

I'm getting big-time paid from everybody demanding choice. My current consulting project has to work on Windows XP, Windows NT, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, OSX, IOS, and Android. However, 95% of the market would be covered by Windows 7 and Android alone.

Nobody is asking for Linux.

"The same argument applies to DS4. Or do you think it's just Poser users who are slow to upgrade to the newest/greatest piece of software?"

True, however, you can get behind the weight map curtain for free with DS. One can argue about how useable the free version is, but anyone who has the system to run it can get a good idea whether the technology is something they want to invest in. I don't even see a demo of P9 on the SM Poser page. In either case, some users (perhaps quite a few) are not going to upgrade either product unless they see a pretty big reason to do so. If you want to use the OS metaphor, look at how long XP has lasted, even discounting the Vista debacle.

Genesis may be cool but not necessarily enough for many to abandon the traditional discreet figure model. Weight mapping may be even less compelling. Consumers don't likely care how much easier it is to rig for. They only care about the end result. Yes the figures may bend better, but outside the cognescenti, amongst those using mainly stock poses and perhaps having a less critical eye, I'm not sure how much of a selling point that is. It seems to me that the people most likely to upgrade primarily for weight mapping are those who were dissatisfied enough with V4's flexibility to have already gravitated to Antonia (standard), Apollo etc. for their reputed superiority in that regard - or who have tried all of the V4 joint fixes and found them wanting. Personally, I would see soft body dynamics as a much bigger must have. 

Quote - Nobody is asking for Linux.

Android is Linux; it is just not GNU/Linux which is what most are refering to when they speak of 'Linux'. 

I 've used GNU/Linux for years on my main desktop machine, but I think that Windows 7 has taken the wind out of desktop Linux.  I've been using Win 7 on my render machine for a few months, and it seems to be very nearly as stable as Windows 2000, which I wish MS had just improved rather than replacing with XP...

Quote -
But you don't get the point.

I probably don't, but I know full well what is most likely going to happen with the project, especially if nothing changes from the present. 

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Quote - The GPL is very restrictive; Using the example of a figure, since conforming clothing uses the figure's grouping and rigging, any conforming clothing for a GPL licensed figure would also be GPL licensed...

Again, restrictive for whom? The user or the merchant? No dodging now... 

Incidentally, I disagree on the clothing issue - it would be more akin to writing a binary, since the derivation would stop with the mesh. After all, a binary uses the kernel's calls and API (groups/rigging), but it doesn't use the kernel's code (mesh).

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Quote - Antonia represents choice. Now, users have had choice before - Miki3 / Mariko / other for-pay figures...

Err, a little secret I need to divulge: There has always been choice - including the default Poser figures, which come with Poser for free... This has been the case ever since Posette and Dork, come to think of it. 

Quote - Whether Antonia becomes the next V4 in terms of popularity is completely immaterial.

Indeed - like I said before, it isn't about marketshare, it's about mindshare. OTOH and unfortunately, in this realm? The two things influence each other far more tightly (merchants don't make stuff for unpopular figures, etc), so you cannot quite divorce the two entirely. 

Quote - Figure creators have been inspired and new figures are on the horizon because Antonia has shown that the potential of viability of a non-Millenium series figure is significantly more assured than it has been in the past, naysayers notwithstanding.

Eh? It's inspiring and all, but you left out why you think that is the case. I mean, we have heard this tune before after all - when Apollo came out, when Miki came out, etc.  

BTW, I'm not naysaying here, I'm challenging you and your team to rise above the mundane. You're going to have to show all of us why this mesh will have any longevity, especially if you want to attract any significant merchant attention. Simply saying so isn't going to cut it.

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Quote - Damn, and no one's mentioned Android (also Linux). I'm miffed

Oh, c'mon... I did - it's filed under embedded devices. ;)

"In the last month I've gotten a Nook Color (which I've rooted to an Android tablet)"

@ Laurie, Yeah Im loving My kindle fire tablet!!

it actully runs a full version of android "Gingerbread"
Hidden well beneath Amazon Custom interface.

I can load any Android app onto mine by Emailing the .APk file to myself or via the USB connection to my mac.

I Just got Autodesk Sketchbook mobile for .99 cents
I never thought I would see an Autodesk product  in that price range!!!

I did not know android was based on Linux though
But I do remember watching a proof of concept presentation  about some new Device OS called "android" many years ago.

I guess it really took off.

Cheers