Magnets, the grouping tool, the morph brush, and half a dozen morph modification scripts I've written over the years.  It's the most comfortable morph-development workflow for me, which is probably why I don't create many finalized morphs.  :laugh:

I did try working in Wings 3D, first, but found it difficult to tell what was happening and hard to get smooth results.  I've never learned to morph in Modo, and I still don't trust Blender's .obj I/O scripts for morphs, since they change how those work so often.  So it was Poser.  But I started the morphs months and months ago, with the first versions dating back to when I began using Antonia, some time in 2009.

Wow. Ok, you programmer guys have methods that go right above my head. I'll just say I believe you and leave it at that, before I get my brain into knots trying to figure out how. xD

Quote - > Quote - Wouldn't it have been easier for everyone (including you) to just give them in .obj format? xD

I developed them within Poser, so I would have had to export everything.  But now I see that I should have kept them to myself unless I'd been able to do three weeks of beta testing, to make sure they were acceptable for our pampered Poser users.  :tt2: 

Nooooo....not Pampered....CLUELESS.

Never could wrap my brain matter around Magnets in P4 and having just as much trouble trying to figure the cloth room, deformers and keeping P7 from constantly crashing on me. I have 8 Gigs of dynamic RAM and still it dies sometimes.

And NOOOOO...don't keep them to yourself or I will wet noodle you dude!   LOL

Quote - I usually change the extension before I save the file to disk, but possibly not all internet browsers will offer that option.

I actually blanged up a couple of the morphs in that pack.  Should have waited and posted the thing after I'd had a night's sleep.  :lol:  Two of the morphs have "Labia-detailed" mixed in.  Here's a replacement zip file.  This one has corrected versions of those two morphs, but includes the bad ones just for completeness.  Dunno if anyone would find a use for the old versions somehow.  :unsure:

What a RELIEF to read you "say" that, Cage... really thought it was only me! good job most Poser users are pretty forgiving, so they go: "um, mate, like there's like this file missing?" Whereupon I blush and provide... and kick myself for being in a hurry.... as always.

:blink:

Quote - > Quote - Wouldn't it have been easier for everyone (including you) to just give them in .obj format? xD

I developed them within Poser, so I would have had to export everything.  But now I see that I should have kept them to myself unless I'd been able to do three weeks of beta testing, to make sure they were acceptable for our pampered Poser users.  :tt2: 

Hee-hee-hee-hee... oh Cage...

C'mon guys, we're gonna get edumacated, right? Let's have a go... this is after all the "Antonia, Opinions" thread... :biggrin:

Quote - > Quote - external runtimes is the way to go. I have many external runtimes.

 

What's an external Runtime and how do I finf info how to make one for P7 on a Mac?

My Runtime folder is piggish having transfered my old P4 Runtime into  the new P7 one makes finding stuff a nightmare I desperately want to dispense with.

How to make external Runtimes and how to add them to Poser7:

http://www.daz3d.com/i/tutorial/tutorial?id=2231

Well, if it's the price I have to pay to continue being pampered, I'm willing to do beta-testing.  :-)

Quote - Hope this helps. Cage, the morphs are.....interesting.....

Yeh, they're nothing to crow about.  Nothing particularly great.  But people seemed to want something, and I had something.  I don't have the skill or anatomical know-how to strive for realism, so I usually end up with what you might call "stylized" results.  :unsure:  Oh well.  I was mainly concerned with varying the external appearance of the area, in making these.

But if what's holding people back from creating morphs for that area in spite of apparent demand is that it's just a fiddley part of the mesh to work with, maybe a starter set can help someone build something more effective.  :laugh:

Didn't get to actually load them yet, but the folks over at Renderotica might be interested xD

they're a great starting point for those who need such things.  & especially good considering you made them IN poser! 

Just a quick note to say that I've been making morphs using Blender since 2.48 and I've only had one hiccup when they made the big change from 2.4x to 2.5x and just about everything stopped working for a while.  Other than that, Blender's .obj I/O has been rock solid and incredibly predictable for me.  I've never, for instance, had the slight position problem Afrodite-Ohki has had, and I scale up after import and scale down before export.

I've even been able to save my presets for exporting figures, props, and morphs.  Though I know RobynsVeil had a problem with that at one point, I think that was a bit back in 2.5 versions.

But I'm still on 2.58 because it works for me and I don't want to spend time trying to get everything the way I like it in 2.6x yet.   So I know the value of a tried and true workflow.  This is just an FYI.

My position problem was Poser's fault. It happenned because I forgot to tick "As morph target" when exporting from Poser... so much so that, when I load the character's full .obj from Geometries folder in either Zbrush or C4d (which are the programs I use), I have no position problems at all.

@jancory: OOB, bb in 5. Hey, I'm an online gamer too! :D

That's good to know, about Blender, then.  I kept trying the new version for awhile, and each time I did they seemed to have monkeyed around (unnecessarily, as far as I can tell) with the OBJ I/O script.  After awhile I just threw up my hands and decided the software was unreliable unless I want to keep using one version until OS support for it breaks.  :lol:

But maybe I should try it again.

I think what I like about the latest versions is that you can set your export parameters as a preset and just go with that when you export. No having to select and deselect a half-dozen tick boxes and that.

And yes, sometimes it feels like Blender changes things a bit arbitrarily - just to keep its geek-toy status :lol: - but the most recent changes have been phenomenal ....

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND

we're getting BMESH! :woot: Not in the next version, tho... more like 2.64 or 2.65. :glare:

Remesh modifier in trunk, BMesh being worked upon (2.63?), Carve branch in SVN this week, talks about Nurbana.

Bet that AutoDesk executives won't be happy after SIGGRAPH 2012.

Not to sound unappreciative but does everyone creating morphs now a days only do so as injectors?

Whatever happened to the sweet simple old .obj based morphs?

I miss simple.

Not simple to click-and-render hobbysts, who seem to be the majority of our customers these days.

Dunno about the other vendors, but I'm trying to make a living with Poser... and I get accustomed to the same methods for freebies or products ;)

Quote - Remesh modifier in trunk, BMesh being worked upon (2.63?), Carve branch in SVN this week, talks about Nurbana.

Bet that AutoDesk executives won't be happy after SIGGRAPH 2012.

Quite keen to see how well reMesh does with converting all those 3DSMax tris you get in any freebie made in Max... this is going to be awesome, Alex!

In the most recent Blendernation newsletter there was a link to the BMeshMergeproposal...

P.S.
With P8 or above, you may not need PMD files any more. It seems that P8 introduced the ability to add new custom morph channels directly from any INJ pose. I got this info from this thread by kim99. PhilC seems to confirm this. I can't confirm it myself because I'm still using P6.

To Aphrodite:

Sorry dear but despite having been using Poser since version 4 I never learned to use magnets, or the cool render capabilities or the complex lighting. I was a basic set up, basic 3 light set up and render, check the render fix what was wrong and re-render until I got it right. So I feel pretty comfortable including my sorry self in that click-and-render hobbyist category. Maybe a bit more capable with the basic lighting or posing or set up but I haven't grown much as a member of that elite group.  :)

Now in Poser 7 you can be sure I still haven't managed to understand the complexities of the cloth room or the deformers or the complex lighting and render options or the use of the Materials Room (to name a few complex functions you all seem to know). I sure can't figure out that despite having 8 gigs of dynamic ram and powerful processor, Poser still crashes or freezes during a render.

So, despite having figured out the cursed injectors I still think it took up less Runtime folder realestate, it was easier to find and easier to click a body part and install an .obj based morph. I hate that curesed scrolling down and up and down the Pose folder trying to find that darn injector for whatever.

I don't understand the value of your argument that you are trying to make a living as a Poser Vendor. Weren't there Poser Vendors trying to do the same thing before Injection Morphs were thrown at us by DAZ? I may not be the sharpest nail in the bag but I am fairly sure Injectors have not been around since Poser wormed it's way into our collective psyche.

Hi Les.

Sorry but how is this different from the other morphs?

Quote -
Attached above are Cage's "Antonia_gen_morphs4b" genital morphs, packaged as a PMD injection.

P.S.
With P8 or above, you may not need PMD files any more. It seems that P8 introduced the ability to add new custom morph channels directly from any INJ pose. I got this info from this thread by kim99. PhilC seems to confirm this. I can't confirm it myself because I'm still using P6.

Wasn't an argument, just a piece of info I threw to make conversation ;) Yes, they (I say they in this because I wasn't trying to make any content in those days) did make a living... but back then the buyers weren't accostumed to the ease of clicking a library file!

Try to sell a character morph in .obj form nowadays. Renderosity, Daz, RDNA, all those sites will probably tell you to make an injection when they're in test phase.

Quote - I don't understand the value of your argument that you are trying to make a living as a Poser Vendor. Weren't there Poser Vendors trying to do the same thing before Injection Morphs were thrown at us by DAZ? I may not be the sharpest nail in the bag but I am fairly sure Injectors have not been around since Poser wormed it's way into our collective psyche.

They appear to be the standard now, though, Shante. Poser customers expect it. A Poser vendor sort-of has to go with what customers expect.

I've made morph targets myself... easy-peasy. Injectors I've only done a few, and NOTHING of the complexity that Ohki's accomplished. She deserves praise for taking on something that is significantly more difficult for the vendor to produce, not critique.

Aw, thanks Robyn, but I did nothing extraordinary, just dared to learn how to use those pesky PMDs xD

I know dear.

The world is a wonderfully frustrating place but if you want to live here you gotta take everything it throws at you.

But we don't have to like it we just have to make the best of it. Suffice it to say I still think creating .obj morphs for fixes to characters that should probably have been made with them in place out of the box  is simpler than wading through all that injection stuff in my POSE Folder. You gotta find it before you can click and inject......yes???

It also makes me feel less stupid NOT undertanding most of the stuff posted here regarding the morphing of figures like Antonia etc.  ;) in all my limited skills and inbility to wrap my limited brain around all this other stuff, and despite the truth that it is easier to point and click an Injector, I did somehow manage to learn the more "user unfriendly" DAZ rejected, vendor impoverishing .obj based morphing functions and miss their simplicity.

Oh, and I am just saying this for the sake of conversation and not argument.  ;)

Quote - Wasn't an argument, just a piece of info I threw to make conversation ;) Yes, they (I say they in this because I wasn't trying to make any content in those days) did make a living... but back then the buyers weren't accostumed to the ease of clicking a library file!

Try to sell a character morph in .obj form nowadays. Renderosity, Daz, RDNA, all those sites will probably tell you to make an injection when they're in test phase.

Quote - I know dear. The world is a wonderfully frustrating place but if you want to live here you gotta take everything it throws at you.

But we don't have to like it we just have to make the best of it. Suffice it to say I still think creating .obj morphs for fixes to characters that should probably have been made with them in place out of the box  is simpler than wading through all that injection stuff in my POSE Folder. You gotta find it before you can click and inject......yes???

It also makes me feel less stupid NOT undertanding most of the stuff posted here regarding the morphing of figures like Antonia etc.  ;) in all my limited skills and inbility to wrap my limited brain around all this other stuff, and despite the truth that it is easier to point and click an Injector, I did somehow manage to learn the more "user unfriendly" DAZ rejected, vendor impoverishing .obj based morphing functions and miss their simplicity.

Oh, and I am just saying this for the sake of conversation and not argument.  ;)

I really don't know where all that came from. It seems to me you thought I was lowering click-and-render users - or worse, lowering YOU - and I really really don't see how you came to that. All I meant was that I'm used to make injectors, and that it is because it's the preference of most of my customers.

Now please, if you want to pick a fight out of nowhere, do it somewhere else with somebody else. Please.

Quote - P.S.
With P8 or above, you may not need PMD files any more. It seems that P8 introduced the ability to add new custom morph channels directly from any INJ pose. I got this info from this thread by kim99. PhilC seems to confirm this. I can't confirm it myself because I'm still using P6.

I've tested this (although not too rigorously) and it didn't seem to work as advertised in Poser Pro 2012.  I could only get one morph per pose to load that way.  As far as I can tell, if it worked in P8 they broke it in P9.  :unsure:

Robyn

I understand all that dear, honest. I guess It did sound like I was criticizing Aphrodite but I really wasn't. I will be the first to enviably appreciate and thank the creative technically saavy vendors who give the community what they do. I wish I could accomplish what they/you all have managed to learn. I just can't and not from lack of trying.

As an example, some wonderful artist created a pair of dynamic socks, just for me, to use in my renders. Just reading the "simple" use instructions gave me a headache. I read those instructions three times with the Poser stage open and tried running through the drill and still could not figure out what he was trying to get me to do. I quit and closed Poser out and went to bed. It seemed like a replay of the use of Magnests in P4.

Which leaves me out of the loop using the cloth room. The same could be said for a lot of the other stuff most Poser users who have used the app as long as I have have come to take for granted.

i really can't believe I even learned to accomplish some of the digital stuff I have learned.

So, I am sorry if I offended any one here it wasn't my intent just jerking my knee until it knocks my teeth out with my this learning block as I choke on my envy for those who do manage to learn this stuff.   :(

Quote - > Quote - I don't understand the value of your argument that you are trying to make a living as a Poser Vendor. Weren't there Poser Vendors trying to do the same thing before Injection Morphs were thrown at us by DAZ? I may not be the sharpest nail in the bag but I am fairly sure Injectors have not been around since Poser wormed it's way into our collective psyche.

They appear to be the standard now, though, Shante. Poser customers expect it. A Poser vendor sort-of has to go with what customers expect.

I've made morph targets myself... easy-peasy. Injectors I've only done a few, and NOTHING of the complexity that Ohki's accomplished. She deserves praise for taking on something that is significantly more difficult for the vendor to produce, not critique.

Stop envying, Shante. Everyone learns at their pace, and as they feel it's necessary to learn.

Me? I've tried learning programming - I've NEEDED it sorely many times - and I can't. Nothing more complex than plain html, and I lost a good job offer because I couldn't make complex websites because of that. When I worked in Second Life I needed simple scripts for a lot of things and had to give up. Nowadays there are a lot of things I wish I could use python to make, and I can't.

Everyone has their limits. Don't feel bad because of that. You're a respected member of this community, and you should be proud of that. :)

Jesus girl

You just jerked me to tears.I have NEVER been called a respected member of anything especially since I seem unable to give back anything to this community I seem to have grinched for so long. Thank you.

to everyone else, sorry for having grinched this thread with this totally unnecessary diatribe. I have made my apologies to Aphrodite off thread and will not post anything further about this here. Thank you all for all your gifts and patience. Back to lurk mode.

Quote -  

Stop envying, Shante. Everyone learns at their pace, and as they feel it's necessary to learn.

Me? I've tried learning programming - I've NEEDED it sorely many times - and I can't. Nothing more complex than plain html, and I lost a good job offer because I couldn't make complex websites because of that. When I worked in Second Life I needed simple scripts for a lot of things and had to give up. Nowadays there are a lot of things I wish I could use python to make, and I can't.

Everyone has their limits. Don't feel bad because of that. You're a respected member of this community, and you should be proud of that. :)

It's all good. I'm glad it was just a misunderstanding ^___^

In any case, whenever you don't undestand something, just go ahead and ask. I don't bite (err, often LOL) ;)

@Cage,

Quote - I've tested this (although not too rigorously) and it didn't seem to work as advertised in Poser Pro 2012.  I could only get one morph per pose to load that way.  As far as I can tell, if it worked in P8 they broke it in P9.

Thanks for the info. It's a great shame, I thought Poser had finally cracked that one, which is many years over due in my estimation. Is it one morph channel per pose per actor, or just one morph channel per pose full stop?

At least we have your morph_slot_maker.

Quote - Thanks for the info. It's a great shame, I thought Poser had finally cracked that one, which is many years over due in my estimation. Is it one morph channel per pose per actor, or just one morph channel per pose full stop?

That's a good question.  :unsure:  I only tested a pose for one actor, so I don't know what it might do beyond that.  When it didn't work I moved on to the next thing, rather than stop to test.  I should probably try some more controlled tests to see if and when it does work.

@Cage,

I wonder what would happen if you used separate headers in one pz2 file, something like this?

{
version
    {
    number 8
    }
actor hip:1
    {
    channels
        {
        targetGeom R_spread
            {
            [channel contents]
            }
        }
    }
}
{
version
    {
    number 8
    }
actor hip:1
    {
    channels
        {
        targetGeom R_spread2b
            {
            [channel contents]
            }
        }
    }
}

It's only a guess, but may be worth a try. Poser might parse this as separate pose files, and thus allow more that one morph to be loaded from the same file.

@Cage,

Another thing to watch out for when testing. If a morph is being added to the currently selected actor, the morph might be there, but it might not show up in the palette untill something else causes the palette to refresh, like selecting a diffrent actor.

Ooh.  Good ideas, as always, Les. :thumbupboth:  Now I guess I'll have to do some careful tests, tomorrow.  I'll let you know what happens.  :laugh:

@shante,

Quote - Sorry but how is this different from the other morphs?

With the PMD injection, all you need to do after installing it is to apply the pose, then you can start using the dials in the hip. With Cage's original file you would need to run morph_slot_maker first, or text edit the morphs into the cr2, or convert the pose to use PBMCC channels.

Quote - Robyn

I understand all that dear, honest. I guess It did sound like I was criticizing Aphrodite but I really wasn't. I will be the first to enviably appreciate and thank the creative technically saavy vendors who give the community what they do. I wish I could accomplish what they/you all have managed to learn. I just can't and not from lack of trying.

As an example, some wonderful artist created a pair of dynamic socks, just for me, to use in my renders. Just reading the "simple" use instructions gave me a headache. I read those instructions three times with the Poser stage open and tried running through the drill and still could not figure out what he was trying to get me to do. I quit and closed Poser out and went to bed. It seemed like a replay of the use of Magnests in P4.

Which leaves me out of the loop using the cloth room. The same could be said for a lot of the other stuff most Poser users who have used the app as long as I have have come to take for granted.

i really can't believe I even learned to accomplish some of the digital stuff I have learned.

It's all good, Shante. People have their own ways of learning. Some are happy to be show on video (not for me - goes too fast, usually). Some prefer the written word (depends on how well the word is written - can be very challenging). Some find illustrations helpful (depends on level of detail - don't be leaving stuff out!).

Would you be willing to test something for me, Shante? I've written this tute on Dynamic Cloth... which I am revising. It is a pdf, with illustrations. I'm going to add more illustrations to make it a bit clearer. Would you be willing to test it for me?

My reason for asking is this: I was in exACTly the same place you are now. Just could NOT get my head around the cloth room at all. All the tutes I did only frustrated me more. I figured we all have different "best" ways of learning things. Anyway, I'm hoping to make tutes for those who are really visual.

Are you game?

Quote - > Quote - Robyn

I understand all that dear, honest. I guess It did sound like I was criticizing Aphrodite but I really wasn't. I will be the first to enviably appreciate and thank the creative technically saavy vendors who give the community what they do. I wish I could accomplish what they/you all have managed to learn. I just can't and not from lack of trying.

As an example, some wonderful artist created a pair of dynamic socks, just for me, to use in my renders. Just reading the "simple" use instructions gave me a headache. I read those instructions three times with the Poser stage open and tried running through the drill and still could not figure out what he was trying to get me to do. I quit and closed Poser out and went to bed. It seemed like a replay of the use of Magnests in P4.

Which leaves me out of the loop using the cloth room. The same could be said for a lot of the other stuff most Poser users who have used the app as long as I have have come to take for granted.

i really can't believe I even learned to accomplish some of the digital stuff I have learned.

It's all good, Shante. People have their own ways of learning. Some are happy to be show on video (not for me - goes too fast, usually). Some prefer the written word (depends on how well the word is written - can be very challenging). Some find illustrations helpful (depends on level of detail - don't be leaving stuff out!).

Would you be willing to test something for me, Shante? I've written this tute on Dynamic Cloth... which I am revising. It is a pdf, with illustrations. I'm going to add more illustrations to make it a bit clearer. Would you be willing to test it for me?

My reason for asking is this: I was in exACTly the same place you are now. Just could NOT get my head around the cloth room at all. All the tutes I did only frustrated me more. I figured we all have different "best" ways of learning things. Anyway, I'm hoping to make tutes for those who are really visual.

Are you game?

Hi

Well if you can tolerate my bumbling about I am of course game. Afterall I have tried many so far one more can't hurt but certainly could help....if as you say...it is the right kind.  Bring it on dear.  ;)

Quote - @shante,

Quote - Sorry but how is this different from the other morphs?

With the PMD injection, all you need to do after installing it is to apply the pose, then you can start using the dials in the hip. With Cage's original file you would need to run morph_slot_maker first, or text edit the morphs into the cr2, or convert the pose to use PBMCC channels.

Thanks Les for the morph and the explanation. So I no longer need to apply Cage's Any more just yours?

So, I've written this tutorial on Dynamic Cloth... That's a link. Click on it to have a read. Let me know if something seems obscure to you.

Wow! ODF that would be fantastic!!!

quote]

estherau: Would you like an Antonia with 160k polys? Because that should be relatively easy to do, at least for the weight-mapped version (I think).

@Les:

The results of my tests are worse than I expected.  The process is potentially destructive.  It can overwrite existing morphs in an actor.  :scared:

I initially tested with the genital pz2 I posted, using Antonia-WM.  L_spread2b was successfully injected into Hip, or seemed to have been.  The morph works.  But "Genitals-gone" was removed, replaced by the new morph.  Not a good result. 

A multi-actor pose seems to have done something similar.  On actors where poses were already present, the last one is overwritten.  On actors without poses, one pose only is loaded.  In all cases, the loaded pose is the last one listed in the actor channels.

I tested your "multi-ROOT" pose setup, and Poser ignored all of the ROOT (as PFE calls it) sections after the first one.  The result of loading this pose was the same as in other cases, with only one morph injected and with that overwriting if morphs already exist in the actor.

So not only is this feature broken and dead now, it is something to be avoided carefully.  You can screw up your figure if you try to apply the INJ process this way, by overwriting morphs in an uncontrolled manner.  Do not do it, folks, if you are using P9 or Poser Pro 2012.  :scared:

Wow - that's good to know, thank you Cage!

i remember (now) running into the same overwriting behavior when i tested kim99's method too. maybe someone should post that in his thread so others will know?

Quote - A multi-actor pose seems to have done something similar.  On actors where poses were already present, the last one is overwritten.  On actors without poses, one pose only is loaded.  In all cases, the loaded pose is the last one listed in the actor channels.

I blanged things up in this statement.  In the above, for "poses", read "morphs".  Cage needs more coffee than he'd had earlier before trying to express even simple ideas in words.  :lol:

Sorry for my simplistic response but....what you are saying is that I shouldn't use Les's newly posted morph at all?

Quote - @Les:

The results of my tests are worse than I expected.  The process is potentially destructive.  It can overwrite existing morphs in an actor.  :scared:

I initially tested with the genital pz2 I posted, using Antonia-WM.  L_spread2b was successfully injected into Hip, or seemed to have been.  The morph works.  But "Genitals-gone" was removed, replaced by the new morph.  Not a good result. 

A multi-actor pose seems to have done something similar.  On actors where poses were already present, the last one is overwritten.  On actors without poses, one pose only is loaded.  In all cases, the loaded pose is the last one listed in the actor channels.

I tested your "multi-ROOT" pose setup, and Poser ignored all of the ROOT (as PFE calls it) sections after the first one.  The result of loading this pose was the same as in other cases, with only one morph injected and with that overwriting if morphs already exist in the actor.

So not only is this feature broken and dead now, it is something to be avoided carefully.  You can screw up your figure if you try to apply the INJ process this way, by overwriting morphs in an uncontrolled manner.  Do not do it, folks, if you are using P9 or Poser Pro 2012.  :scared:

Quote - Sorry for my simplistic response but....what you are saying is that I shouldn't use Les's newly posted morph at all?

There are too many overlapping conversations in this thread.  :lol:

You are perfectly safe in using the morphs Les has posted.  The exchange you quoted above related to a different matter and you can probably just ignore it.