This morning, having a few idle minutes to spare, I pondered upon the process by which I make my pictures.

It was interesting thinking about it, and I thought it might be interesting to others too so I'm posting about it here.

First of all, I determine the concept. I like to make pictures that appear to be part of an ongoing story, as if they were stills from a film, for example. Not all my pictures follow that pattern, but most do. So to start with I want to know what my picture is about. One thing I very rarely do is make a picture to show off a particular prop/texture/figure etc, so the theme of the image is important.

Next I decide what I'm going to learn from the render. I want to learn something every time a put together a scene. By the time I'm ready to post the final render to the gallery, I will have a better understanding of at least one aspect of Poser than I had before I started. If necessary I will modify the concept slightly so that I can incorporate a new technique or whatever.

Then I peruse my Runtime folder to check if I have there resources there to realise my vision. I don't mind a spending a bit on each render, but I wouldn't want to make a huge investment on stuff I might only use once. Looking through my Runtime for the stuff I need can also give rise to more ideas, embellishing the original concept if I see props that can be put to good use.

Next comes composition and lighting. I spend a lot of time on this bit. I'll arrange a few key scene elements, or low resolution figures and primitives as 'placeholders' and then find the camera position and angle that works best to create the effect I want. I'll decide on focal length, orientation, depth of field etc. at this stage. Then I'll set up the lighting, albeit approximately at this stage. It can be tweaked later, depending on the exact position of the key figures, but I like to establish the overall lighting effect at an early stage.

Then I remove the 'placeholders' and add the rest of the basic 'scenery' - just enough so that I can position and pose the figures properly. At this point I don't really care to much about what it looks like, I just need to know where the ground is and where walls, trees etc. are.

Now I add the figures and pose them. Posing takes me a long time - I'm very fussy about it. Every position of every limb etc. on human figures is tested by trying to put myself in the same position. Can my arm twist that much? Do my fingers bend that much? And so on. For non-humans I use Googe Images to find some reference photos. For fantasy creatures I just guess :-)

Then I add clothing, props and more scenery elements until the scene is complete.

Next I do some 'housekeeping'. Because I render with gamma correction enabled I check that all transparencies, bump maps etc. have been set to be ignored by GC. I set the texture filturing I want for each material, using quick area renders to check that it's working ok.

So, the scene is pretty much feature complete at this point so I do a preview render to check the way all the materials look. Usually this results in a foray into the Material Room to replace or correct a whole bunch of materials, using more area renders to confirm that I'm happy with the new versions.

Now I go for a coffee and do something else for a while, to let my brain forget about the details of the image a bit. Then I return to the rendered preview and flip it horizontally. This lets me see it afresh, as though I was looking at it for the first time. I can more objectively judge the composition and lighting by doing this. If it doesn't look quite right I make the necessary adjustments and rerender until I'm happy with it.

Then finally I work out what render settings the image needs for it to look how I want it to. I check raytrace bounces are sufficient, that IDL is set appropriately, that pixel samples and shading rate are appropriate for the types of objects in the scene. I'll also check the settings for each light, usually increasing Shadow Samples from the default that I used in the preview renders.

I render the scene and ... ta daa! Nearly finished!

I'm not averse to postwork, so I consider wheter anything needs to be done to enhance the render. Often the postwork needed is minimal, but I always at least consider it. As well as a JPG version, I also save the layered version so that I can change the postwork at a later date - something I might do based on comments received after it's been posted to a gallery.

So ... that's my approach - what's yours?

You've hit on an interesting thread here, Snarley...

My own workflow is dependent on what I'm working on. If it's a commission, obviously I'm going to be driven by what my client wants. Most of the time, I'm creating either illustrations for a story, or a "Set" of scenes built around a particular theme. Obviously, if it's a story, I read the story several times to get the scenes and situations in my mind, and that drives the scene setup.

If it's something for my own amusement, I almost always begin with the character. I love creating new faces and body shapes, and may spend hours working on either or both. And it's not a case of "the bird with the biggest t*ts wins." It has to do with an overall look that strikes me as attractive, powerful, or emotional.

In my own case, learning happens as a side effect. Yes, I probably learn something new about Poser each week, but certainly not each render. If it's a for-hire, the customer is in far too much hurry for me to mess around and "See what I can change." It's a matter of "get this looking decent and get it out the door." The learning aspect comes accidentally... usually when I have something in my mind that I can't figure out how to do, (although, these days there seems to be very little that a magnet or the morph tool won't solve.) When I'm stumped, This board is the first place I come. Usually, someone here has hit the issue ahead of me, and I get (for the most part) good, clear help. And yes... I keep notes, being old enough that CRS has set in.

I've got well over a Gig of resources in my runtime, so at this point I very seldom HAVE to buy something to make a render work. Most of my purchases are impulse buys. If I can't find what I need, and can't make it from primitives, there are a couple of modelers I can go to and have them create the item, usually for a very reasonable price. I have less than no interest in modeling myself. I'm too busy rendering! :) I cloth my characters at the time they are loaded into the scene.

I'm like you in that composition and lighting takes the greatest portion of my time. I tend to start with a pre-made pose, then "fix" it... first by removing any unnatural twists, then by tailoring it to my own needs. It never ceases to amaze me that people who put supposedly professional pose sets out there don't know that HANDS DON'T TWIST... FOREARMS TWIST! Yes, I am fully able to create a pose "from scratch." I've made several for people here who were having trouble with poses. It's just that if you can find one that's even 50% of what you need, that's that much time you save. I almost never render a pre-made pose... I just use them as short-cuts to get where I'm going.

I'm interested that you take a lot of time fiddling with focal length and cropping. To me these things are very intuitive... I know what is "right" for me almost immediately. Typically takes less than a minute to set both. This is not saying I might not change if a better idea hits me, but it usually won't.

Ever since the advent of IDL my lighting chores have been cut to almost nothing. Since light behaves the way you expect it to, lighting has become simple. (I have 40 years experience in lighting for TV/Film.) For outdoor scenes, BB's envdome and a single shadow caster light seem to work about 99.9% of the time, and give me EXACTLY the effect I am looking for. BB needs to charge for that package. It's worth money!

I've never used a placeholder in a scene in my life. I know a lot of folks do, but I've never seen the point in it. I've got my character(s) so why not go ahead and put them in place. Yes, it helps that I have a very high end computer that I use for Poser, but I'm not sure it helps me that much at the posing stage. For me, it is easier to set things up using what I'm going to render than any other scheme.

I would not use GC on a bet. For my purposes, it is not a mature feature at this point, and requires far more time to use than it's worth. All of the time lost fiddling around in the material room does not make up for any (in my opinion questionable) gains come render time. I'm sure that the power users here disagree, but it's my work-flow and I don't see the difference at the end of the process. My own trips into the material room will have to do more with tweaking colors and textures than anything else.

MY first render is with IDL enabled. Yes, it does take a while. My reasoning is the same as with not using place-holders... I want to see what I've really got, and that's the quickest way to get there. Usually, by the third render, I've got a finished product (although I believe my record for re-renders of a scene for my own amusement is about 28!) Again, my computer is powerful enough that a typical scene renders in less than 20 minutes, and a "power" scene may take up to 90. I have a few presets that I've created with the rendering parameters that give good results for me. I do very little tweaking for pixel samples et al ad nauseum because I've already spent a couple of months experimenting and finding what effects I liked. The only parameter that I massage is raytrace bounces, depending on what the transparencies in the scene call for.

I almost never do postwork. If I do, it is to correct a compromise I had to make based on a mesh issue (a bent knee that doesn't look quite right for example.)

All of this is quite simple in my own view... I don't think about the steps... I just do them, and enjoy the process. Poser is both a tool and a hobby to me. I find it to be great fun!

Well first off, thank you for posting your methods.  I´ve been in a creative lock down for a long time and you've certainly given me a few pointers that might help break that bind.  There are two points in particular that I find interesting. One is the use of placeholders to build up the scene and the other is flipping the preview image horizontally to gain a new perspective.  I've never thought about that but I find the idea quite ingenious.

As for my own workflow, I've gotten into bad habits that I need to break out of.  First I don't really do preview renders. I usually always render big images with IDL turned on. I need to stop doing that :)  I've also become a realism junkie so I spend more time fiddling with skin shaders and render settings then building up a scene. I blame that on bagginsbill (in a good way:).  I used to give concepts more thought for my images in an attempt to tell a story or just to get a good starting point for scene.  Now I'm able to render out a decently looking image but it doesn't do enough for me to post to my gallery.  That's the bind I need to break out off.

My only tip for you is to use Pose Magic Pro (if you aren't already) for posing figures.  It really makes posing figures easier.

...a bit of a cross post going on there with basicwiz. My post was directed at the OP.  Thank you for your post as well basicwiz.  I should add that I'm a more postwork oriented artist.  For me the real magic happens in Photoshop with tons of layers, brushes and effects ;)

Interesting post, SnarlyG. You bring up some very thought-provoking points about workflow.

Upon thinking on it, my initial "inspiration" ... um, there really is none. I usually start out because I am trying to learn something new about Poser, following a tutorial or one of the forum threads on here. My emphasis has been - particularly of late - to create scenes that reflect the glimpse of a moment: a snatch of conversation, where someone caught me, perhaps a visual commentary on the state of the art.

I start by posing. Nothing in the scene, ordinary default lights, no props. My 'puter is not the slowest, nor is it the fastest, so I have to work within some limits.

In the past, I spent a lot of time inserting node sets to correct textures and colours. This would allow me to set lighting appropriately based on the materials, instead of having the light have to compensate for materials that were not corrected. Now, with PP2010 - brilliant investment! - all I do is make sure that texture filtering for colour maps is appropriate, and gamma settings for non-colour maps has been set to 1. I'll still go into new items and change the diffuse_value to .85 (from 1) and untick Reflection_Lite_Mult and get rid of disconnected nodes: surprising how many of those are scattered over the material room floor. I'll save out my changes for future use since this part of the process does represent a fair amount of time.

Lighting is my weak point. I currently re-doing the IDL for P8 tutorial by Bagginsbill: stuffed it up the last time. I'll render at full settings for a dozen or more renders, taking forever.

And by this time, I'm usually sick of the image and end up not posting it in my gallery, and that's why I have so few. That, and when compared to some of the really fine work in the galleries, my stuff is pretty ordinary.

Well,

I usually come up with some mad idea for a render and then start thinking about how the heck I'm actually going to pull it off.
If it involves people then it's off to check the runtimes to see if I have appropriate clothes etc. (assuming they are wearing any that is :) )

Then decide if I need to make any props etc. and if so then get references etc. and fire up Max/ZBrush as appropriate.

Set up the peeps in Poser with the clothes, morphs and textures etc. then decide if it's going to be a Vue or Max render (Vue gets saved as a PZ3 file, Max gets exported as .obj)

Build the scene and decide on the lighting.  I'll usually have a pretty good idea of how I want to light whatever it is so it's a case of deciding on which type of light, volumetrics, shadow settings etc and then start test rendering and tweaking.

Save as a PNG file and usually save out a ZDepth map as well just in case (if I'm using Max, I might do a bunch of passes; diffuse, spec, reflection, maybe shadow)

then bung the whole lot into either Photoshop or Composite (used to be Toxic - comes free with Max 2011) and put it all together.

Hmm.

I do comic book stuff, not so much pinups for pinups sake, but to see if the 2D thing I have on paper in front of me can look decent in 3D. Once I figure out how to get the bodysuit squared away. the process kind of follows FrankT's of trying to match the hair, see if have a belt or insignia or if I have to fire up Hexagon to knock something out.

The real play comes in Photoshop with layers for different backgrounds and text, etc.

Some excellent ideas here and interesting to see the contrasts. Definitely better than -

Drive half the day through some Godforsaken wilderness to a temple only to be told it's the wrong temple. Not that sword, the pretty one. More body oil on the calves...and yes, it's the only dragon I could find who works for scale these days.

Quote -
First of all, I determine the concept. I like to make pictures that appear to be part of an ongoing story, as if they were stills from a film, for example. Not all my pictures follow that pattern, but most do. So to start with I want to know what my picture is about.

Just reviving an old thread ... :-)

All that I wrote in the original posting still applies, but other factors have been introduced into my thinking since then.

Perhaps not so much 'introduced' as 'developed', as I'm sure they were there from the beginning, albeit in more vague form.

Specifically, while determining the overall concept I am now also likely to spend some time thinking about what affect I want the picture to have on the viewer.

Everybody has their own definition of what art is and, of course, everybody is right! Art is a subjective thing and each one of us can decide for ourselves exactly what art is.

For me, art is creating something of aesthetic value, the primary purpose of which is to be either thought-provoking or to elicit an emotion in the viewer.

That's why a pie chart, or a bar chart of my bank balance is, for me, not art - their primary purpose is to provide information even though they may also elicit an emotion too (especially in the latter example).

So, if I want to make art (and I do), then I need to establish in my own mind the intended effect upon the viewer, or perhaps a range of possible effects if the image is to be designed with a certain degree of intentional ambiguity.

Sounds a bit pretentious?

Yeah, maybe.

But you know what? - I'm happy to be a little pretentious these days :-D
Besides, taking more things into account during the creative process adds to the interest and fun, for me at least.

It's my hobby and I'll do what I like with it!

Over to you ...

anyone tried storyboarding for poser stuff? That can be handy when making comics.

Creative process: see this to have every concept about where we are today shaken to the core. We're sort-of stuck in the 70s, coding-wise and creative-wise, even with RAD tools. This blows the socks off... :woot:

Further: I'd been asking for an IDE for Python... get a load of THIS! Not for Python (for Clojure or something like that) BUT!

What I'm hoping for is that Light Table might be developed for the Python work environment. It would make the VB/VBE IDEs look like something out of hoary antiquity:
"A keyboard! How quaint!"

I thought the comic was a sort of story board.  I don't want to give myself extra work. It all takes enough of my time as it is.

Love esther

lol I started doing this stuff cos I wanted to be an artist!!!, always have but cant draw to save my life, when I found bryce and poser I thought at last I can be an artist ;-) but a few years down the line I know I'm NOT an never will be :-(  . I still love playing with all my 3d proggys and learning new stuff to do but I rarely try to make art any more just silly pics to amuse myself

I thought the comic was a sort of story board In some ways yea, a comic can be an inked extension of a storyboard. But mostly storyboarding is a simple way of working out stuff like frames/angles and story. For poser stuff it's great, because you can design most of your comic/movie before putting pinkie to keyboard. So it's a real time saver. You don't need to be able to draw either. Simple shapes, stickmen even, are enough to work out composistion or flow.

ah I see.  for me composition and flow is already in my brain somewhere.

I've been using Celtx for my hobby creative writing efforts recently:

https://www.celtx.com/

It has templates for comics, as well as screenplays, etc... and it has a story boarding feature. There's a free desktop version... the iphone app is pretty good. I use it to do some writing on my commute to work...

...and that Light Table IDE concept is cool Robynsveil - thanks for sharing.

I principally use Visual Studio, XCode and Komodo currently on the programming front...

;-)

Interesting subject.

I like to get my inspiration from photographs. I use two or more but mostly two photos, one for the foreground and one for the background. For the foreground I normally use my own photos, for the background free photos from sxc.hu or bought background from Renderosity. I can use anything really because the photos are only placeholders.

I start by editing out the background in the front picture and replacing it with the new background in Photoshop. I try different backgrounds and filters until I am satisfied.

In the next step I make a terrain in Vue, eyeballing it to make it approximately like the one in the foreground photo. It is not important how it looks I am not after an exact copy. Then export and import of the terrain into Poser and import of the background picture (which is now an combination of the two original pictures). Then I use the function "Create Perspective UVs" ion the Group editor to get a texture on the terrain. Now I have a nice ground to place props and figures. Now begins the work of replacing everything from the photos with real 3D!

When it is not possible to do more in Poser I move the scene over to Cinema 4D for the final 3D composition. In Cinema I have the Carbon Scatter from Eon (Vue) to make grass and vegetation and also DPIT Effex to help getting rid of the last remains of the photos.

The rendering is my weak point. I don't have the patience. Luckily C4D is pretty good at doing a acceptable render with just a little tweaking. HDR lighting is a must. All I do is to mark out all elements that are to be rendered "Multipass". That enable you to isolate all element from the render in Photoshop so you can work on them separately.

Finally the post work session! The most fun part where you can level all your skill which you have learned in Photoshop over the years. Having all element from the scene isolated helps a lot of course.