Hello --

Just had a question for you all on your thought on Tattoos.

Since we can see the same tattoo on multiple folks, etc.  Is there a copyright on Tattoos or technically no?

I ask because I'm having a blast making a bad-ass tattood M4 for my bar scenes that will be coming up, and toying around with selling his newly tattood texture set as well for those who might be interested.

Just curious as to your thoughts on this.  I know they're not the same as T-Shirts, and seems every tattoo parlor can have the same tattoos as well. 

Thanks again for your input.  Appreciate it! ]

If they are, I know I can use my stuff I create in personal art, so its really no big deal, but just figured I'd ask first before a potential product comes from it.

It would have to be a tatoo that you created if you wanted to use it commercially.  

And by that I mean by not using any outside artwork to turn into a poser tatoo.  (not enough coffee yet)  

Thanks Kendra....guess I'll have fun just using it in my art then.....I'm horrible at draing my own skulls, etc, since I'm not technically into that type of stuff. 

I guess my characters in my background will be unique then.

I hear yah on the coffee......I never realized there was so many stipulations on "copyright" issues.......

So far as I know the rights to the tattoo design remain with the person who designed them.

Tattooists can purchase the rights to use a certain design, so they would not have designed every tattoo they offer. There are some designs in the public domain, but I don't know what restrictions they might have.

Basically if it's existing recent 'art' or 'design' then someone owns copyright to it. 

Sorry I crossposted with Kendra and yourself.

The photograph at the following URL on Ebay recently :-http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110891628745?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Fetched £31 for one negative. It is not a particularly interesting photograph IMHO, and I wouldn't call it artistic, but nevertheless it fetched a high price, probably becasue copyright for the image was included.

I am not the seller of that item and I did not bid on it, in case anyone is wondering.

You might find this discussion of interest:

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/05/02/can-you-copyright-a-tattoo/

Quote - Hello --

Just had a question for you all on your thought on Tattoos.

Since we can see the same tattoo on multiple folks, etc.  Is there a copyright on Tattoos or technically no?

I ask because I'm having a blast making a bad-ass tattood M4 for my bar scenes that will be coming up, and toying around with selling his newly tattood texture set as well for those who might be interested.

Just curious as to your thoughts on this.  I know they're not the same as T-Shirts, and seems every tattoo parlor can have the same tattoos as well. 

Thanks again for your input.  Appreciate it! ]

If they are, I know I can use my stuff I create in personal art, so its really no big deal, but just figured I'd ask first before a potential product comes from it.

There are copyrights on a lot of tattoos. I'd create it yourself just to be safe.

Laurie

Thanks all --- that is an interesting article, but they really don't answer weather or not their should be.  I think not, but that's my opinion.

I'll have to look and see if there are any cool public domain tattoos of skulls, etc.  So far things suck in Public Domain.

Oh well, back to the drawing boards I guess......

IIRC, there was a dispute regarding characters sporting copyrighted tattoos sold by a vendor here @ Rendo.  To say the least, the vendor no longer participates on the site and the characters are long gone.

I thought I remembered such an event, Hborre, but could not be sure. Yeah, if it's not a tat you drewe, best not put it up for others to use.

What about things like this?

LINK

Would you be able to use these on a Skin MR?

All the best.

LROG

Ragtopjohnny, same again. yes, they are copyrighted. everything unless specifically released into the Public Domain is copyrighted. and that is everything.

unless you can find a release or it is officially moved to the PD (many things are every year by law as they move outside of the copyright period) assume it is still in copyright.

Dover Publications has a book on royalty free tattoos. I'll grant most of them are older ones (circa WW2 and before) and such, but they are free to use. And their prices are reasonable. I have a lot of Dover books :P

Laurie

I guess someone should also mention public domain is for the life of the creator +75 years. Unless of course, the copyright has been renewed.

Laurie

Quote - And by that I mean by not using any outside artwork to turn into a poser tatoo.  (not enough coffee yet)  

re: ... not enough coffee yet. .... :lol:

Thnx 4 the chuckle.

Quote - > Quote - And by that I mean by not using any outside artwork to turn into a poser tatoo.  (not enough coffee yet)  

re: ... not enough coffee yet. .... :lol:

Thnx 4 the chuckle.

IS there such a thing as enough coffee? I'm still doing research on that.... I'll let ya know...

Laurie

Quote - IIRC, there was a dispute regarding characters sporting copyrighted tattoos sold by a vendor here @ Rendo.  To say the least, the vendor no longer participates on the site and the characters are long gone.

You are correct.  I bought one of the characters, too, thinking it was a legitimate character from the company it was named for. 

Since the subject touches (haha) on altering the skin of a figure, perhaps it should also be mentioned that most professional clowns own the rights to their make up work so they will be unique - although there may have been more than one man through the years to play Bozo, there was only ever one legitimate Bozo at a time.

johnny, you can generate b/w or colour images from your own poser renders and use those as tattoos.

Thanks for that tip Miss Nancy ----

I had another thought to bring to this discussion -- say I saw a photo of a tattoo -- altering colors would be making it "Yours" as well, wouldn't it?  It wouldn't be the same thing as that original tattoo artists if I were to do that......

That kind of brings an interesting point as well......

Found this browsing tonight and doing some research:

Although copyright is largely a gray area in the tattoo industry, there is one area in which copyrights are very clear, and that is the case of tattoo flash. Tattoo flash are printed designs which can be turned into stencils for rapid tattooing, and they are owned by the people who create them. Tattoo flash can be sold, just like other copyrighted items such as books, and they can also be transferred between owners. The fee paid for the flash is also presumed to be a license for using the flash in tattooing. However, someone cannot make copies of tattoo flash and distribute or sell them, as this would violate the copyright holder's rights.

Quote - I had another thought to bring to this discussion -- say I saw a photo of a tattoo -- altering colors would be making it "Yours" as well, wouldn't it?

No

Quote - It wouldn't be the same thing as that original tattoo artists if I were to do that......

No

You do realize a lot of tattoo artists create their own designs, right? Using them, even when changing the colors, is a violation of copyright.

Laurie

Quote - Found this browsing tonight and doing some research:

Although copyright is largely a gray area in the tattoo industry, there is one area in which copyrights are very clear, and that is the case of tattoo flash. Tattoo flash are printed designs which can be turned into stencils for rapid tattooing, and they are owned by the people who create them. Tattoo flash can be sold, just like other copyrighted items such as books, and they can also be transferred between owners. The fee paid for the flash is also presumed to be a license for using the flash in tattooing. However, someone cannot make copies of tattoo flash and distribute or sell them, as this would violate the copyright holder's rights.

And frankly I don't care who wrote this. Using someone elses designs, whether it's tattoo falsh or a tattoo designed and done by Joe the Tattoo Artist down the street, It's a violation of copyright to use someo elses design without permission. Period.

Trust me...just spend the 12 bucks and get a book with royalty free stuff in it and do yourself a favor.

Laurie

the chinese dragon makes a loverly tattoo or you said about a skull! well u have a skeleton in poser just chop it up a bit, So you can make any tattoo you like already in poser and you never know some tattoo artist might even want to use yours ;-)

I'm not trying to upset you. I'm trying to scare you...lol. The last thing you want (if you wanna be a merchant) is have someone quiestion copyright. It's better that you learn about it now rather than later. Do some research on the subject.

"If in doubt, throw it out"

Laurie

As to the guy that told you you could use anything on his page - well, I wouln't automatically assume that he has any clue about copyright. Some of the stuff on his site might very well be that tattoo flash you were talking about.

Laurie

Agree with Laurie.  Never assume that you can use something someone is offering online.  Now the link to the tribal brushes is an option.  While you wouldn't be able to use them as is and offer them as flat 2D tatoos, that would be too close to re-distributing them as is, you could alter them, combine them with other brushes you've purchased, etc and add them to skin textures.  

But just altering color isn't enough and neither is the idea that all you have to do is change 10% (or any percentage) and it becomes yours.  That isn't true at all.  

Like I said before.. if you didn't make it 100% yourself, don't try to sell it.. plain and simple.

I'm frankly amazed that more than a decade into the poser market, that people still think they can try to sell anything they download if they just change it a little.

There are probably reaistically 500 topics on this exact same thing, with probably 2,000 replies of "NO!" at this point.

If you want to sell something then make it yourself!

Or buy stuff that's "royalty free" like the Dover books. Even then you can only use so many in your product at a time - the Dover stuff usually have all that info in the front or the back of the book.

The freebie texture sites I go to all have the usage rights on their site somewhere and I always look for it. If I don't find one, I won't use the images. Lack of any license info doesn't mean they're good to use. If it says "for personal or commercial use" you're ok. However, any site that has ANY creative commons usages I don't use either. They're not always clear which CC license. Those same freebies sites also have different purchasing plans for the amount of textures you'll think you'll need. If in doubt, purchase: most of the time those will give a very liberal license. Just be aware there are also unscrupulous texture sites too that swipe textures from other sites.

You could always find a site that creates and sells things for this purpose - such as vectors and photoshop files. They'll usually let you buy one at a time.

Laurie

Johnny,

I don't mean to be offensive, I'm just worried a bit. Recently we had a thread on T-shirt textures, now we've got tattoos, you being busy to seek the borders, public domain, altering color schemes and on.

When you want to go commercial with anything, it might be based on some elses work in the inspirational sense, as quotation, but the works itself must be done by yourself completely from scratch up. Always. Everything. That simple. Unless you've obtained rights explicitely.

When you want to go non-commercial with anything, you still must be sure that there are no rights or claims involved even when the material was issued non-commercially as well, that you obey eventual instructions from the author or so, and you also have to be very clear about your contributions within the pack. Don't assume.

On top of that, Rendo is pretty restrictive in all areas.

Two examples of my own.

1. RichardPhotos once published a photo of a red rose in the galleries, and wondered how a black rose would look like. I knew, so I altered the color scheme of his picture and re-published in the gallery, explicitely stating what I did and why etcetera. It got removed within an hour. I should have asked Richards permission first. Mods initiative, Richard was not involved in any way (and actually was sorry his missed it :) )

2. Fand, a good nude photographer in the rendo galleries, does great works on lighting, posing, expressions and things. I regularly try to remake his photos, using Poser. I've got his written permission to do so.

So, it's not enough to go back to the drawing boards, the point is to stay there. Better stop wondering about copyrights. The moment you're not sure you can hold your position in court and that you can prove you're the originator, you're sidetracked. Save your drawings, designs and intermediate files to ensure your position.
And indeed, actually it's a miracle that there are so many producing artistst around.

I'd be happy to buy from you, but I haven't got an easy feeling about it lately. That's my worry. Sorry for the tone.