I was goofing around this evening doing some very rough studies for an image I'm planning, and it suddenly struck me that every time I really get serious about a picture (as opposed to just playing with Poser) I always seem to end up using the P4 Dork -- extensively modified, of course -- instead of Michael. Anyone else do this? Maybe it's just because I have so many morph targets, textures, etc that I have made for the P4 guy. But I have some really great morphs and textures for Mike, too (including Edo, which I think is one of the best textures I've ever seen), and he still doesn't seem to come to life like the default male. I mean, when left at the defaults, nothing looks worse than the Dork... but he sure cleans up nice. Though these pictures don't really show it... I haven't done anything with it yet, so I still have body parts poking through clothes, etc. His face is one of my favorites, though. But on the other hand, it's hard to go back to those P4 joints after you've used a Millenium figure. Just musing. I guess it proves again that it's not the expense of the stuff you're using, but the amount of work you put into it that makes an image. -nemo

Gad, I haven't used the P4 Guy in ages. I use only Michael now. I do use Bobby (Mike's head on P4 Guy's body) occasionally, when I want a younger guy, not so "well built" as Michael, but I haven't touched the P4 devault male in almost a year now. However, I've always argued with people (I hate calling him the "Dork") because I believe he always looked good with the right texture. It's the texture and the camera focal setting that makes him look human. Too many people made the mistake of using the default texture and the default camera focal setting--result: Dork! But I made some very attractive young men with him in the past, using good textures and good lighting and camera focal setting. Your guy above is great looking. I would never recognize him as the default P4 male. Great job! Melanie

Thanks! His face and head are only about one-quarter P4 Guy, though. A while back I wanted to fool around with the default male head (before Traveller and other folks released so many great morphs for it) so I imported the base file into 3D Studio Max and worked it over. I decided since all the guys had sexy P4 girls to go gaga over, I wanted to try to make a handsome P4 man. The head came out pretty good, I think, but because it's so changed it can't use the facial expressions in Poser. This guy's expressions are limited so far to variations on a smile, a frown, and a furrowed brow, because those are the only morphs I've made for him. When I get around to hooking up his teeth and tongue, I'm going to make an open-mouth morph. And yes, I remember your images from back then, Melanie... :-> You did make some good-looking guys from P4 Guy!! -nemo

I use the P4Guy for purely mechanical reasons -- if I load in Michael, my system just about reaches the limit. I can't do animation work, and I'm real limited in adding costumes to him. So I've built a library of useful things for the Dork: morphs, textures, and so on, that make him far more useful than Mike is right now.

BTW: which texture is this in the image?

The texture is my own. I made it way back when from some photos I found on the web. And I can relate to what you wrote about Mike and Vickie bogging down the processor. Even with a Pentium II with 512MG ram, the Millenium figures tax my system, too. I think part of the reason I still use the P4 guy and woman so much is that I can get things done so much faster, and work better, without my computer spending forty seconds paging every time I move an arm. -nemo

I mostly use him for backgrounds and stuff or very speciallized uses ... Plus some clothing uses for Bobby ... Thanks WarriorDL

I just realized I didn't give credit where credit is due... the body texture in the image is adapted from one of Anton Kisiel's textures for the P4 man. The face was done from some nice high-res images I found on the web of the actor Rufus Sewell, whom I have always thought is a very handsome man. -nemo

It's a great looking texture -- you'd never know this was P4. Congrats!

but of course fauve... the P4/P3 Dude's the way to go 8 ) same with the P3/P4 Femme... there's a lot of props/clothes/morphs etc for them... and they came with the programme and have been about a while 8 ) and I do tend to root for the underpup anyways 8 ) CHeers

Yeah, I still Dork. ;] Man, that phrasing sounds so wierd... I'm lucky enough to have DL'd all of traveler's morphs, and all the add-on morphs, textures, clothes, etc that I could find for him. Plus, when I use him in an image [rarely], I end up spending hours doing extensive magnet work on him. Very tiny magnets for face & mouth/nose sculpting, grosser ones for body shaping. Hrmmm... I didn't realise other people still played with him. One of these days if anyone is interested, I may refine my magnet library and drop some of them in freebies. Right now they're just in the "plop one in, tweak til it works" stage - not something I'd want to inflict on downloaders.

fauve I think I'd still use Dork if I got him to look as good as you have! To be honest I haven't used him in a SERIOUS render EVER. (if I added him the render wouldn't be serious anymore ;)

You know, it never ceases to amaze me that some people look at the P4Guy, whose features are so plastic that he can accept almost any texture and look good, versus Michael, who, let's face it, folks, ain't centrefold material (and could use a little time at the gym to get rid of those sagging pecs) and needs those textures to look good. I'm just hoping that Mike 2 will have a little more work put into the body structure and the face, because right now I'd see him as the dork..... Just my $0.02...

You know, atthisstage, you've hit upon exactly the idea I was fumbling at when I started this thread. I always end up using P4 Guy because even though he is weird and mannequin-looking in his default state, it's just that lack of character that makes it so easy to morph and texture him into something really individual. I own Michael and think he is a great piece of modeling (though I'm also put off by those gigantic man-boobs of his... he has a bigger rack than some of the female figures!) However, even with extreme morphs (wolfman, demon, what have you) he still looks like Michael, just Michael wearing special-effects makeup. I've tried doing facial morphing with Michael's head like I've done with the P4 guy in Max. I've never gotten any result I wanted to use because in the end the head still looked like Michael, no matter what I'd done to it. Whereas the P4 guy.... I've gotten some pretty good results with him, just because of that plasticity that you mention. Of course, Vickie used to have the every-character-looks-the-same problem, which has improved in Vickie2. Maybe Mike2 will go in the same direction. But until then, long live the Dork! :-> -nemo

Attached Link: http://clik.to/dtoybox

Ahem... I still have four non-dork character head morphs for P4M on my site, and will probably continue to add more. Navigate to the Head Shop on my site (these are free).

Shoot, are you kidding, Duane? :-> You're one of my heroes!!! You make some of the best face morphs I've ever seen. I use your Silvio morph all the time. And your morphs for the P4 femme are amazing and so original. I really like Rivka and Manjit. At last, P4 women who don't look like Barbie dolls....

Attached Link: http://www.geocities.com/duane_moody/u_gallery1.html

Hey, remember, I have a user gallery on my site for things people have done with Toybox goodies. Show me what you've done with Silvio and stroke both our egos simultaneously...

I use the dork all the time...I don't have Michael...yet. I don't use men in the bright light alot. They are usually very dark so he works just fine...I do use Vicky though...but, I also still love possette... :)

Take Duane's "Brennan", morph the body 0.5 with the "Superhero" dial, add the P4 body texture from the REMC "Trooper" character, and you get a guy I'd go out with.....

Actually Bloodsong has a morph for the chest and all for Michael to get rid of the huge pecs and all. I also found him to be very versitile in the face department.

Heh. You get a guy I'd go out with... ;]

heyas; i use the p4 guy when i want his arms up. michael's taffy armpits kinda, erm, turn me off, so to speak. month or two ago, i tried to re-create a television character in poser, and i tried on body michael and the p4 guy. well, the p4 guy won. of course, i dont have any extensive add-on morphs for michael's head, whereas the p4 guy has just tons. so yeah, he's still alive and kicking. :)

I am still Dorking it! I mainly use Syyd Raven's Dr. Morpheen. Add all of Traveler's morphs...and Mike is kinda hard pressed to keep up. I am waiting to see how Mike 2.0 looks before I decide. If I do get Mike....make no mistake...it's only because I want Syyd's Kane. G

Let's face it, ALL the P4 stock figures (yes, that includes Posette) are pretty plastic looking without decent textures. Like store window mannequins. I've seen some pretty good male textures for P4Guy, though, and he can look good. I think his basic features aren't bad, people have just used the wrong textures on him. Michael and Vicki, however, are just more appealing to me. Just my opinion. Melanie

We still need conforming clothing and morphs for the Woodie tho. ;]