Quote -
Or maybe whatever's missing is from the Poser program code that passes data to QM... either way, I can't imagine SM won't address it pretty sharpish?

Quite so. I have had issues with QM not finding things that Poser can find. Normally in such a case, QM just freezes. The Genesis Importer, on the other hand, is dead strange:  QM runs OK, but the Genesis figure just isn't rendered.

Like I said, QM needs a little love. I know a lot of users don't bother with it, but for an animator, it's essential.

Quote - Poser writes a temporary file with all assets which QM reads and renders. The render engine is the same. I think there is something wrong in the pipeline with either missing data in the scene file or missing assets or it is something which the DSON Import designers haven't thought about

Ah, okay... I guess that passing assets part could be a factor eh?

I'd guess the code passing the assets maybe won't expect a cr2 that calls a python script that calls something else? Well... who knows. I don't...

Oh well, I'm sure if SM and Daz have been able to manage such a fantastic job with what works so far, as far as it does... works very well, I think... it's just a matter of reporting these things and allowing some time for them to be turned around.

Quote - But a fair number of the V4 characters I've got recently came with Genesis versions... and I already got the Evolution Morphs too, a while back... before I even realised I couldn't use them in Poser, indeed (doh!)... but now I can.

So what do I get if I buy Victoria 5?  Can I just get the Evolution Morphs and skip buying V5?

I, too, have bought some characters than have both V4 and Genesis versions, but I thought I'd have to buy V5 to use the Genesis version.  Is that not true?

Quote - > Quote - Poser writes a temporary file with all assets which QM reads and renders. The render engine is the same. I think there is something wrong in the pipeline with either missing data in the scene file or missing assets or it is something which the DSON Import designers haven't thought about

Ah, okay... I guess that passing assets part could be a factor eh?

I'd guess the code passing the assets maybe won't expect a cr2 that calls a python script that calls something else? Well... who knows. I don't...

Oh well, I'm sure if SM and Daz have been able to manage such a fantastic job with what works so far, as far as it does... works very well, I think... it's just a matter of reporting these things and allowing some time for them to be turned around.

It has been reported

I had a look at the PZ3 file. I now can imagine lots of things which can go wrong.
The scene file is wriitten with both absolute and relative references.  When a file goes to the QM the pathnames are either parsed by Poser or QM (not sure whoe does it) and the PZ3 contains many references outside of the normal scope of the parser (not in the regular locations).

Another possiblity is that QM needs the same code to call the DSON Importer to interprete the DSON assets. Loading from the library does that for sure and judging from the time it takes to load a simple Pz3 with a genesis figure in it, that might be done there as well. I this is the case, then this is not a simple fix

Quote - So what do I get if I buy Victoria 5?  Can I just get the Evolution Morphs and skip buying V5?

I, too, have bought some characters than have both V4 and Genesis versions, but I thought I'd have to buy V5 to use the Genesis version.  Is that not true?

You'd only need V5 if the character is based on V5, far as I understand it.

None of the characters I have, as yet, need V5... they all just require the Evolution Morphs.

I think the evolution morphs are where all the individual morphs are such as eye shape, nose shape, mouth, etc.

Laurie

Quote - I think the evolution morphs are where all the individual morphs are such as eye shape, nose shape, mouth, etc.

Laurie

Yeah, reckon that's right Laurie. Although I didn't stop to look around between installing the DSON Importer and essentials and installing the Evolution morphs... so not certain exactly which morphs it added now...

In terms of V5, M5 etc... it's Stephanie 5 I rather like the look of...

I've been eyeing Steph 5 myself.  Not least because for some reason, her bundle is much cheaper than M5 and V5. 

I've always liked Stephanie better than Vicky anyway.  The problem was always that Vicky got more support.  But with Genesis, maybe that's not an issue?

Quote - > Quote - So what do I get if I buy Victoria 5?  Can I just get the Evolution Morphs and skip buying V5?

I, too, have bought some characters than have both V4 and Genesis versions, but I thought I'd have to buy V5 to use the Genesis version.  Is that not true?

You'd only need V5 if the character is based on V5, far as I understand it.

None of the characters I have, as yet, need V5... they all just require the Evolution Morphs.

For the Gen4/Genesis characters, I would imagine you would need the V4 and M4 shapes for genesis as well so they look the same as the Gen4 version. So I would grab the legacy shapes too while they are on sale.

Eh, still not sure I want to actually spend any money on Genesis yet.  Might buy something if I end up not having any other use for the buttload of coupons they gave us this month.

It's DAZ.  There will always be another sale.  If they don't end up giving it away.

Quote - I've been eyeing Steph 5 myself.  Not least because for some reason, her bundle is much cheaper than M5 and V5. 

I've always liked Stephanie better than Vicky anyway.  The problem was always that Vicky got more support.  But with Genesis, maybe that's not an issue?

I've always liked Steph also. Mainly her petite proportions.

I will have to go check her out.

There is no autofit in Poser.

You mean transfer morphs? That works. However if a content maker used a lot of smoothing and collision from DS, you will have to use a magnet or morph brush to compensate because those functions aren't in the plugin.

Quote - Nothing said about Poser dynamic clothing working, deal killer right there.

Dynamics work. Use the subd bone to collide against.

Quote - Needs DS installed and another kludge to convert it to something Poser can read, another deal killer.

DS doesn't need to be installed.

Quote -   Start at autofit, yes, this is a ds only item, ds specific.  Or to me, it doesn't exist.  I mentioned it as one of the things listed as "Iffy", which translates to "More often, not".

DYnamics, I want to select the figure I'm working with, double click on the clothing item in the library and go into the cloth room, select the things I want it to collide with and run the sim.

You don't need DS?  Gene is available without DS?  Required for V5 etc.  No, what I mean is want to either run an installer, (poor second choice) or unzip a .zip into the runtime and have said character, prop, clothing or environment be there in the library.  Everything I've read has said this is not the case.

There have been a lot of things others have said you will have to go into DS to do before you can use it in poser, or a straight up conversion that will run as a poser native model will, still doesn't exist.

I'm from a very different world, one where there are two possibilities, that being, to spec and working, or scrap and start over.  I see no reason to hold a different,much more lax standard to the software world. IT either works, or it doesn't.

D.

Quote - Start at autofit, yes, this is a ds only item, ds specific.  Or to me, it doesn't exist.  I mentioned it as one of the things listed as "Iffy", which translates to "More often, not".

Autofit is the equivalent of crossdresser or wardrobe wizard, but converts Gen4 and Gen3 clothing to genesis.  So it's not really Genesis functionality.

Quote - DYnamics, I want to select the figure I'm working with, double click on the clothing item in the library and go into the cloth room, select the things I want it to collide with and run the sim.

So when you load genesis, load the dynamic item and you select the subd bone to collide with.

Quote - You don't need DS?  Gene is available without DS? 

The Essentials files that come with the plugin has genesis in it and the python calls to bring it into poser without DS.

Quote -  Required for V5 etc.  No, what I mean is want to either run an installer, (poor second choice) or unzip a .zip into the runtime and have said character, prop, clothing or environment be there in the library.  Everything I've read has said this is not the case.

Once you install the essentials files into the directory of your choice, any other characters, like V5 will be installed via an installer into that same directory.  No DS is needed. It's as simple as that.

Quote - There have been a lot of things others have said you will have to go into DS to do before you can use it in poser, or a straight up conversion that will run as a poser native model will, still doesn't exist.

Only time you will go into DS if you have an genesis item that hasn't been converted to work in Poser and you want to create the Poser companion files for it or you're creating content for Genesis. If you're just adding stuff to the a scene, and you're installing poser-ready content, then no you don't need DS.

Quote - I'm from a very different world, one where there are two possibilities, that being, to spec and working, or scrap and start over.  I see no reason to hold a different,much more lax standard to the software world. IT either works, or it doesn't.

D.

Well then, things wrote to DSON specs work in Poser. Things that aren't then you have to wait until they are or you do them yourself. It works or it doesn't. Nothing different from what you're expecting.

The big thing about Genesis is wrapping your head around what it really is. The big problem is people think it's just another figure to manipulate. It's more than that. It's probably better to take time to educate yourself about what it is before saying things that are most likely misinformed. Most people don't see the advantages of it until they spent a while playing with it. It took me a while to warm up to it, so I don't think it will be different for others until they understand what Genesis really represents.

Okay, so for those of you who ARE familiar with Genesis, how do you create custom characters?  I get the idea that you don't "dial up" a figure and save it as a CR2, so how do you create a custom figure to use over and over again?

That's exactly how it's done. Dial up your character and save it as a character Preset.

Coldrake

Character preset?  Where and how?  Please explain.

Quote - ...OT,,

That fellow was 8'11" but look at his proportions when I cropped him next to a normal man. We are born with a big noggin and then we grow legs for it...;)

An artist interested in these matters did his own unofficial study by measuring 100 or so samples. Robert Wadlow (the 8'11" guy you showed) apparently has an 8.5 heads per body ratio. The artist found that humans range from 5.33 heads (dwarf) to 8.5 (Robert Wadlow), with the average being 7.5.

His video is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdNQR7xYW5k

Quote - That's exactly how it's done. Dial up your character and save it as a character Preset.

Coldrake

DO tell ;)

Laurie

I have downloaded the DSON plug-in and am very slowly downloading Poser SR3.1 now. I am still hesitant about installing the DSON system though. It seems huge. What does it do to Poser? Can it uninstall cleanly without breaking Poser? How much extra overhead does it create in terms of memory and processor cycles? Does it make Poser slow when rendering scenes with several figures (with hair and clothes) and an elaborate beckground? I admit I am a little scared. I'll wait a while.

Quote - The big thing about Genesis is wrapping your head around what it really is. The big problem is people think it's just another figure to manipulate. It's more than that. It's probably better to take time to educate yourself about what it is before saying things that are most likely misinformed. Most people don't see the advantages of it until they spent a while playing with it. It took me a while to warm up to it, so I don't think it will be different for others until they understand what Genesis really represents.

Based on the above, and the snippage, I may download it tomorrow, but based on my rate of installing things, that doesn't say it would be used this year, or maybe even next.  Playing with EJ now, even took P5 Judy into the face room and got something I can live with, but still dealing with the few morphs that aren't near enough.  EJ fixes most of that. 

D.

I have downloaded the DSON plug-in and am very slowly downloading Poser SR3.1 now. I am still hesitant about installing the DSON system though. It seems huge. What does it do to Poser? Can it uninstall cleanly without breaking Poser? How much extra overhead does it create in terms of memory and processor cycles? Does it make Poser slow when rendering scenes with several figures (with hair and clothes) and an elaborate beckground? I admit I am a little scared. I'll wait a while.

The DSON plugin is the only part that goes into Poser's runtime. 8.98mbs. The rest can be in a file on an external drive. It does have un-installers but they leave a trace folder (easy to find and delete. Re-instatalling automatically finds them and un-installs them, though. This is nothing like loading the first V3 onto a pc with 512mb of ram. That was scary... ;) This is designed to be "lightweight" If you use a lot of characters and clothing, this might be really good for you for the next generation.*

Quote - I have downloaded the DSON plug-in and am very slowly downloading Poser SR3.1 now. I am still hesitant about installing the DSON system though. It seems huge. What does it do to Poser?

Hasn't don't anything discernable to my installation that I can tell.

Quote - Can it uninstall cleanly without breaking Poser?

From what I've heard you need to run the installer again, which then allows you to uninstall. If you just delete things I've heard ppl have had problems.

Quote - How much extra overhead does it create in terms of memory and processor cycles? Does it make Poser slow when rendering scenes with several figures (with hair and clothes) and an elaborate beckground?

I haven't noticed any lag in Poser, and I only have 6 gigs of ram. It's basically running the same as it was before.

Laurie

Loading Pz3's and CR2's with genesis or anthing which needs DSON in it will be noticably slower. Posing and other things are the same

Saving scenes with genesis in them will be larger as you are used to. A single genesus figure takes about 200MB on disk. This also applies to saving it to the library. It does not matter which resolution it is set at

Setting the resolution does make a significant difference in memory usage.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - So what do I get if I buy Victoria 5?  Can I just get the Evolution Morphs and skip buying V5?

I, too, have bought some characters than have both V4 and Genesis versions, but I thought I'd have to buy V5 to use the Genesis version.  Is that not true?

You'd only need V5 if the character is based on V5, far as I understand it.

None of the characters I have, as yet, need V5... they all just require the Evolution Morphs.

For the Gen4/Genesis characters, I would imagine you would need the V4 and M4 shapes for genesis as well so they look the same as the Gen4 version. So I would grab the legacy shapes too while they are on sale.

The morphs would work without the legacy shapes, though you might get a warning about extra settings. But since the starting shaped would be different the final shape would be different too - Basic female is much less buxom than any Vicky. If you are tempted by characters for M5 or V5 (or S5), check which mapping they use - each of those characters adds a new UV mapping, so if the textures use that you would get noticeable seams (at best) on the figure without the V5/M5/S5 base shape.

One nice addition which would be nice is to disable or deactivate unused morphs before saving a scene of a figure. If you are saving a female character you really have no need for a gorilla or a troll morph saved in the scene or cr2 file

Over time the size of the saved genesis figures and scenes will be enormous because it seems to save every morph which has ever been installed for genesis

For the bandwidth inhibited, the core is some 427 megs, the other needed files about another 30 megs.  And I still gotta put in the SR3.1 upgrade first, Being in a hurry don't make sense, at least to me.  USB port is busy at the moment, charging model helicopter, after which a certain 3 year old tomcat is going to find his rear end chased around the living room.  He's always terrorizing my tabby, see how he likes it.

Um, no.  If I hit him with it, it throws extra load on the motor, the radio senses this and shuts the whole thing down.  Which also means all trim settings, being digital instead of mechanical, are lost and it's square one again.  Isn't digital wonderful?

D.

Disc space? In 2012? These are legitimate concerns. I made some preliminary calculations and estimate that in late 2014 or perhaps early 2015 I will have problem if I don't do anything. Yes I do worry. But have no fear, I've heard that there are some indigenous people in Borneo who also do not use Genesis yet we are not the only ones!

I've heard that there are some indigenous people in Borneo who also do not use Genesis yet we are not the only ones!

LOL  Oddly,,, I'll bet there IS someone on Borneo using Genesis.

re. Genesis size:

I re-saved several modified Genesis characters back to my library and the size of the .crz generated is about 5.6 mb.

A .pzz scene file created with a single Genesis figure was 5.5 mb.

Even uncompressed to a .pz3 a single Genesis figure creates just a 24 mb size file.

Stupid question time:

With the V4 shapes is it possible to use V4 content such as clothes with Genesis in Poser?

Will the clothing behave the same way as using them on V4?

Is it possible to put Genesis morphs such as V5 into V4 clothes with Morphing Clothes?

Quote - re. Genesis size:

I re-saved several modified Genesis characters back to my library and the size of the .crz generated is about 5.6 mb.

A .pzz scene file created with a single Genesis figure was 5.5 mb.

Even uncompressed to a .pz3 a single Genesis figure creates just a 24 mb size file.

 

Have you installed any morphs for genesis? Because that is what increases the size

Of course you haven't because you make your own figures. The rest of the world who uses genesis does install morph packs

Quote - Disc space? In 2012? These are legitimate concerns. I made some preliminary calculations and estimate that in late 2014 or perhaps early 2015 I will have problem if I don't do anything. Yes I do worry. But have no fear, I've heard that there are some indigenous people in Borneo who also do not use Genesis yet we are not the only ones!

 

Apparently you have a lot of money to throw away

After clicking the uinstall, I am a very happy camper again.

Me, myself, and I control my own  PC. Not DAZ, nor anyone else for that matter.

PC stands for Personal Computer. = Mine , = not yours. Got it?

Thank you, nice try.

Same player shoots again. (try)

Next please?

And all this for a talking toe- and fingernail lady wannabe .
(Spin the AA morph in the head and look at the toenails and the fingernails.)

Quote - Heh, I'm just staring at the files to figure out what I need to install.  Do I need all three packages installed if I have DS 4.5 currently installed? :)  It doesn't happen much but I'm confused.

Don't know if this was answered.

The legacy file packages isn't needed unless you're using DS 4 or earlier - I believe that package has the older ds/dsa formats.  The DSON CORE file is the normal DS file, updated to the DSON .duf format.  It also of course contains the data files needed no matter whether you're using Genesis in DS or Poser.

The Poser Companion files go in the Poser Runtime, and as long as you keep the 4 files (eg .duf, .py, png, pz2) together you can move them anywhere in your Poser libraries.

The other package contains the data files (similar to geometry type files in Poser) and updated DS files as well (using the DSON .duf format).  These are also needed. and should stay outside the Runtime folder in the "data" section they're placed in .

I ALWAYS extract the Daz content exes to a separate location and then zip it up in case I need to reinstall and put the extracted items in my runtime manually.  That way I know what's in the package and I can decide what's going where - I don't like any program or content creator deciding where I put things in my content directories.  Takes a bit more time, but it's well worth it to me.  Daz is switching to zip files with an optional installer, but are starting with older content as the old installers apparently don't work with some Macs.  The newer stuff is, therefore, unfortunately still in exe. format

I've been really unhappy about some of the stuff at Daz since they put out the new site, but I don't get people who are just posting here just to bash Daz about this.  It is something LOTS of people have asked for and I give kudos to Daz and SM for working together to make it happen.  I'm a long time Poser user and find I actually like many things about DS4 since starting to use it, so it's more my program of choice of the two these days, but I still like and use Poser.

Once I installed the DSON plugin and the Genesis Essentials stuff and just ONE of my updated M5 characters, I was able to use that character along with the morphs that I already had in DS. VERY cool! 

I adore Genesis - probably will still use it more in DS, but am thrilled to have the option now to use it in Poser as well, even if it won't do everything it does in DS.  More options are nice!

I've been playing with Genesis some more today and since converting what little I have to the Poser friendly format (which was very easy to do in the latest DS4.5) I am liking what I have seen. I think all parties have done a great job bringing it to Poser and I'm sure it will make lots of people happy. I've just got so many questions at the moment and I think it is going to take some time to get to know this new system.

Is there an idiot's guide for this?  I'm reading hundreds of messages about how to use the Genesis in Poser.

I have the import working.  But what do I need to do, step by step, to get things liker M5 and V5 and other Genesis morphs to work in Poser?  I DL'd Daz 4.5 but don't know what to do with it (applied to Genesis content conversions for DSON in Poser.)

Bodymorphs, M5, Steph5 as well as Iconic Shapes 3 (M3, V3, A3, F3 and H3).

The whole scene saved as 141 mb.

A single figure with all those morphs installed saved as 17.6 mb

That's pretty good IMO.

As far as we can tell, as soon as you install another new Genesis figure (eg the troll, or V5) you get the morphs installed into your Genesis figures automatically. There is no way to remove them again, and each figure you install increases the size of any pz3. The concept behind the Genesis functionality is that you can use any or all of these morphs - the immediate price is that the file size goes up exponentially.

Our base Genesis figure (V5, M5, troll, benjamin, manly men, james, creature morphs) is over 100mb.

If, like us, you save pz3s of every image you create, your storage needs are going to increase very fast.

Is there any way to avoid this? Thoughts welcomed!

Quote - Is there an idiot's guide for this?  I'm reading hundreds of messages about how to use the Genesis in Poser.

I have the import working.  But what do I need to do, step by step, to get things liker M5 and V5 and other Genesis morphs to work in Poser?  I DL'd Daz 4.5 but don't know what to do with it (applied to Genesis content conversions for DSON in Poser.)

From what I understand and from my limited experience all you need to do to get the morphs to work is to extract them into the same place your DS content is. Then when you load Genesis they will be in the parameter tab ready to dial in.

Quote - Just created a scene with eight copys of Genesis and the following morph sets installed:

Bodymorphs, M5, Steph5 as well as Iconic Shapes 3 (M3, V3, A3, F3 and H3).

The whole scene saved as 141 mb.

A single figure with all those morphs installed saved as 17.6 mb

That's pretty good IMO.

I think I figured it out.

If you save the figure to the library without external binaries on, the file saved in the CR2 is 195MB (in my case). If you save the PZ3 it is 200MB

If you load genesis with external binaries on, it is 12MB if you save it, no PMD file.

Now the culprit.

If you save a figure to the library without external binaries and then (in a new session with external binaries on) load it from the library and save it, it creates the same 12MB file but with an additional 61MB PMD file.

So the lesson here is to save figures with external binaries on to the library and to scenes as well. Once you save uncompressed the links to the original binaries are gone and the file gets huge. To be fair this is not a genesis problem, because the same happens with V4. Only the impact is larger because an uncompressed genesis is much larger as a V4

I don't use external binaries.

Quote - I don't use external binaries.

Then you have miracle genesis or poser

You did enable file compression in Poser, didn't you ?

Quote - You did enable file compression in Poser, didn't you ?

No, I have not. I have a compressed drive. That way I can still edit the poser files

Quote - Stupid question time:

With the V4 shapes is it possible to use V4 content such as clothes with Genesis in Poser?

Will the clothing behave the same way as using them on V4?

No, the shape doesn't give Genesis the V4 rigging. You would need to use DAZ Studio to AutoFit the clothes, then save as .duf to bring to Poser. Of course PhilC may be able to figure out a way to convert in Poser - I'm not sure how the imported figure will interact with Python. Dynamic clothes made for V4 should fit a morphed figure, of course.

Quote - As far as we can tell, as soon as you install another new Genesis figure (eg the troll, or V5) you get the morphs installed into your Genesis figures automatically. There is no way to remove them again, and each figure you install increases the size of any pz3. The concept behind the Genesis functionality is that you can use any or all of these morphs - the immediate price is that the file size goes up exponentially.

Our base Genesis figure (V5, M5, troll, benjamin, manly men, james, creature morphs) is over 100mb.

If, like us, you save pz3s of every image you create, your storage needs are going to increase very fast.

Is there any way to avoid this? Thoughts welcomed!

I've just done a test and a single naked figure with base texture with only V5 morphs and the DieTrying's 182 V4 Morphs for Genesis saved as 60 MB for me. When I turned on file compression it saved as 15.2 MB.That's quite a saving and if it is typical with more morphs and storage space is a problem then maybe turning on file compression in preferences would be a solution.

"...maybe turning on file compression in preferences would be a solution."

Indeed it is.

I'm using a laptop and file compression saves me dozends of GB of space.

BTW, a full body Genesis morph weighs a lot less than a full body V4/M4 morph because Genesis' mesh is a lot lighter.

If you don't want to turn on file compression and just archive the files then zipping them up is another option. That 60 MB file was reduced to 15 MB when I zipped it up externally.

Quote - > Quote - Stupid question time:

With the V4 shapes is it possible to use V4 content such as clothes with Genesis in Poser?

Will the clothing behave the same way as using them on V4?

No, the shape doesn't give Genesis the V4 rigging. You would need to use DAZ Studio to AutoFit the clothes, then save as .duf to bring to Poser. Of course PhilC may be able to figure out a way to convert in Poser - I'm not sure how the imported figure will interact with Python. Dynamic clothes made for V4 should fit a morphed figure, of course.

Ah, yes of course. Thanks so much for your reply.

Dynamic clothing for just about ANY figure will work.  I've been trying to post an image of Genny wearing a Jessi dress, but it won't attach!

Having your data drive compressed by the OS is just as good without the disadvantages.

The 195MB file compressed to about 60MB. But it is a lot more than a gen4 figure. But the problem is not important anymore if you use external binaries - then the diskspace is negligable. If I keep an non external binary version of your scene as a backup it should be OK