Quote - I hope M4WM is still in development after that all the interest seems gone in direction of a new toy...

adds more hopes

oh noes, somehow messed up my v4wm .cr2.  she’s looking for her helper bone .objs. 

i swapped her uvs with M4’s, thinking to use her male morph, until the day ever comes m4wm comes out.

M4 is quite a nice figure as is. He has no magnets.

Hope you find your bones again.

Love esther

Here is an example with hair : the neck, left and right collar zones are distorted :((

If not a bald naked V4WM, I can't use her.

Is there a way to avoid theses problems and do a proper conversion ?

Just to say, I avoid conforming all together.  I realize this isn't something most people are comfortable with, so it's not a general solution, but I thought I'd share my techniques just as an option.  I find conforming too restrictive in general, so I tend to find ways around it.

When I use conforming hair, I often parent it rather than conform and just pose the hair to fit the pose.   Shoes I tend to convert to left and right props, when I use them (which is, admittedly, rarely).  Just recently, I found that making shoes that bend, like flats or sandals, work fairly well as entirely constrained dynamic props.  I had the sim pretty fast and without any problems.  Heels don't really bend much, so I don't really have to worry about those. 

Mind, I did this before using V4 WM.  I like to scale my figure's body parts, and that would break conformers until recently.   Not to mention, my library is old enough to have quite a lot of hair for different figures that aren't V4 at all.  Like the Ultimate Ponytail 1 (V1 & V2) and 2 (V3).

You could try excluding the neck and collars for the hair figure.

I often simply conform hair and do a Figure>Copy Joint Zones rather than using Outfitter.

There are some badly rigged shoes out there, and Outfitter will find them.  They work best if they are rigged all of the way to the hip, but some have only a foot and toe actor, or their Zeroed position does not correspond to V4's...

As WandW said.

Use Copy Joint Zones and there will be no problems.

(Or, at least, I never encountered one until now with hair and clothes)

Remember to check "Include morphs when conforming" and "Include scales when conforming" in Body properties of your cloth/hair.

V4WM is awesome So is that skin texture that comes with package.  What's the best lighting for it? 

Do the PerfectFixes work or are they even necessary? What about some of the other morph fixes, like the one that duplicates belly rolls (I13 Real Belly) when a character bends forward?  I'd really like my PerfectToes to work.  It gave her toes that wiggle independently.  Very cute.

I'm not fami.liar with the PerfectFixes, but generally any morphs designed to correct the bending of the original V4 joints would not work as intended with the weight-mapped joints.  In the case of a morph that doesn't so much correct the bending as add a certain fleshiness or pseudo-soft body handling to it, in the belly, say, you'd perhaps have to test the morph to gauge the results.  The fingers haven't been altered in V4-WM, however, and anything designed to work with the toes should presumably still work as before. 

Perfect Toes Complete loads but has no affect - these are the individual toe movement morphs.  Pefect Toes Basic does work though, so at least I can spread the toes and curl them and other things.  I'll have to check the docs and make sure I've got all the injections loaded.  There may be something missing.  I'll test on my base V4. Strangely, PerfectThumbs totally trashes the thumbs.  I didn't even try to make use the morphs - I just deleted them and reposed V4WM so her hand looked better.  The "Perfect" series are all by Meipe & Xameva and designed to correct native V4 joint flaws.

Maybe I need to rebuild V4WM with the "Use external binary morph targets" turned off?  I followed the original instructions that came in the zip file and didn't notice that part until I was done.  And by the way what are PMDs?

PMDs are external binary morphs.  The V4WM conversion script includes instructions for turning them off, IIRC, but the script itself will deactivate them for the run.  If they are activated when the script runs, there can be errors, which is why the script turns them off.

I'm unfamiliar with the toe morphs in question, so I can't really address why some of them may not be working.  :sad:  Hopefully someone will come along who has the morph pack in question and can hopefully help with specifics.

For what I've experienced, there's no problem using some correction morphs and they work as intended.

I can't say nothing about PerfectFixes since I don't have any.

For anybody else with the PerfectFixes - here's the scoop.  After you convert V4 to V4~WM, then you need to run her through the Perfect "conversion" process.  Their documentation tells you what to do.  At that point, you can save a new cr2 file.  You can either load the PerfectFixes or not.  I found that loading her up with all the fixes and all the Morphs++ and the Elite Body and etc etc etc caused problems.  So I just left her prepped for Perfect and loaded with the basic stuff like Morphs++ and A4, which I use a lot.  Then if I have problem with a specific area that I think a PerfectFix will fix, then I load that one.  It seems to work.  Mostly V4~WM fixes herself just perfectly, but there are a few things I like, the feet for instance can be shaped better and I got her into one pose that did something wonky with her calf, loaded up PerfectLegs and that reshaped the contact area between the shin and the thigh so it looked better. 

If all I planned on using was V4~WM and I didn't already own the PerfectFixes, I wouldn't go out and buy them until I was sure I had a need.

By the way, whatever happened to M4~WM?  It seemed he was coming along nicely last March and then nada.  Did Genesis/M5 kill him off?

M4-WM was shelved because some of the key people involved with Poser Place encountered real-world problems and had to pull back.  M4, or any existing figure, could be weight-mapped by anyone out there with the skills to do so.  The Outfitter provides the basic tools for clothing conversion of an M4-WM, should it be created, so the same basic support available to V4-WM would be there right away.  No one has jumped at the idea, though.  :unsure:

Possibly there just aren't that many people with the patience and skills for such a project.  I have discovered that I definitely lack both, in varying degrees, myself.  :lol:

It's not wholly inconceivable that the PP team could reassemble and resume work, but so far there is no indication that it could happen any time soon.

I must be completely friggin blind.  where do I get this from?  do I just download the update?

Quote - I must be completely friggin blind.  where do I get this from?  do I just download the update?

Yes

As a rabid :-)  beta tester-I found you to have enormous patience Cage! I had time-at that time-so to speak as I was unemployed. Not so much time now-but I would be happy to test.

If anyone does not know-Cage was the driving force behind creating the Outfitter

Quote - M4-WM was shelved because some of the key people involved with Poser Place encountered real-world problems and had to pull back.  M4, or any existing figure, could be weight-mapped by anyone out there with the skills to do so.  The Outfitter provides the basic tools for clothing conversion of an M4-WM, should it be created, so the same basic support available to V4-WM would be there right away.  No one has jumped at the idea, though.  :unsure:

Possibly there just aren't that many people with the patience and skills for such a project.  I have discovered that I definitely lack both, in varying degrees, myself.  :lol:

It's not wholly inconceivable that the PP team could reassemble and resume work, but so far there is no indication that it could happen any time soon.

I noticed that CrossDresser4 has a V4~WM license.  Does that offer anything over Outfitter?

Quote - I noticed that CrossDresser4 has a V4~WM license.  Does that offer anything over Outfitter?

As far as I know, Outfitter just transfers V4-WM's weight mapping to another clothing figure. It does it pretty well, too.

Crossdresser will convert clothing made for other figures to V4-WM. I am assuming that Crossdresser will transfer the weightmapping info, but I'm not sure since I don't have that particular license.

wmV4 helper bones, still trying to figure those out so to try them on m4 and d3.

haven't tried outfitter yet.  i'm assuming it puts the helper bones in the conforming clothes?

Quote - wmV4 helper bones, still trying to figure those out so to try them on m4 and d3.

haven't tried outfitter yet.  i'm assuming it puts the helper bones in the conforming clothes?

Yes, it puts them in.  Mike talks about helper bones in the Tony 02 video...

http://vimeo.com/user8284617/videos

Quote - By the way, whatever happened to M4~WM?  It seemed he was coming along nicely last March and then nada.  Did Genesis/M5 kill him off?

and whatever happened to the wmG2 figures sm was supposedly working on??

Mike has been very ill over the last year so M4WM has been on hold. 

I don't know what happened with the Weightmapped G2s....

BTW, the PoserPlace site is down because of needed server work; it should be back up in a couple of days...

Good to hear maintenance is the reason why PoserPlace is down right now. Apparently Mike feels recovered far enough to undertake this. 

I understand the G2s weightmapping project work was suspended. Apparently the mesh is not-symmetric and this made the work difficult. For traditional rigging this is no problem, but for weight mapping it means the left and right sides of the character need to be individually WM-ed. That makes a non-symmetrical rig and that again has other consequences.

This of course need not hold anyone from initiating their own WM projets, such as WM-ing P4 Postte or P6 Jessi. Snarly's SubD script works great and the comparatively low vertex count is advantageous when it comes to weight-mapping. 

how'd not-symmetric mesh happen, ... rhetorical.

Quote - I don't know what happened with the Weightmapped G2s....

The G2 meshes are a complete mess.

They are not symmetrical at all, and have duplicate and stray vertices.

This makes copying the maps from one side to the other all but impossible.

Once it is finally mapped, it is very easy to break it using the symmetry command. Projecting the mapping to clothes is not cut and dry either, they need work afterwards due to the duplicate vertices adding weights. That makes it useless for a P9 user.

You are far better off with standard joints with meshes like those.

wuz looking forward to a wm Koji

Mike had some renders of a Koji WM that looked pretty good, but I don't know where that project went; it was for hire....

I dont know if the Koji mesh is symmetrical or not. I would have to look and see.

I worked with Sydney, and I can say for certain that Sydney is far from symmetrical.

With the PoserPlace site down for sever maintenance, a reminder that V4 WM and Outfitter are also available free at RuntimeDNA...

http://www.runtimedna.com/Poser-Place/

is James6 symmetrical?

how do you discover if a figure like J6 is symmetrical?

I have no idea. Maybe disform one side of the mesh significantly and then try to mirror morph and see what happens

Quote - how do you discover if a figure like J6 is symmetrical?

From what shvrdavid said when he weightmapped Syd, he discovered the assymmety when  the Weightmaps from one side didn't work when transferred to the other side using the R/L symmetry operation...

Transferring weight maps will show it, like WandW said.

It will also show duplicate vertices depending on the value mapped to them.

You can take a character into a modeling program (Blender,etc) and check to see if the edge loops are correct and look for other issues.

Openings in the wire frame must be one loop, and a lot of times they are not. (eye sockets, fingernail areas, teeth, etc.)

Errors like this might not affect weight mapping because of where they are. When those areas are mapped, they are usually mapped to 1. (1=full joint effect)

There are areas in V4 mesh that have improper edge loops, but the are not in areas that present a problem with the weight mapping because they either are not mapped, or a value of 1 is applied to them.

I checked J6, there are more than a few symmetry errors as well.

The back of the chest has a symmetry and a grouping error at the center bottom at abdomen.

That one error instantly affects two body parts, breaking symmetry on both body parts.

Simple errors like that are no big deal with standard rigging, but present problems when weight mapping. It might not sound like much to have the chest asymmetrical, but there are a lot of maps on the chest, and most of them would not be symmetrical due to the error in the mesh.

There would be 50 plus maps, just on the chest.....

And it just compounds from there since the abdomen is not symmetrical either.....

cries  for the dream of a wm J6. 

SM won't give permission to fix the obj mesh?

Quote - SM won't give permission to fix the obj mesh?

Haven't asked them.

It would have to be done like a service update. And would break any previously made morphs sets.

Character topology and grouping needs to be correct before the character is released for anything. Fixing it afterwards is a lot of work, and basically makes the character useless unless everything for it is updated as well.

i don't think compatibility with J6'w old clothes would be a great loss, but losing his face room morphs would be a major bummer.

I've deleted a number of posts about the site being downsince it's up again. Not mad at anyone... but they are just noise in a very long thread.

idiot question of the day. does it still use v4 morphs? and maps?

Yes, it still uses V4 morphs and maps. :)

Quote - Yes, it still uses V4 morphs and maps. :)

@.@ all her morphs?

Quote - > Quote - Yes, it still uses V4 morphs and maps. :)

@.@ all her morphs?

Were there particular ones you had in mind? 

Yes, the mesh and grouping was not altered, so AFAIK all ++ morphs to change shape or expression still work.   

Use the WM version all the time, everything still works.

Quote - Use the WM version all the time, everything still works.

Same here.

Quote - > Quote - Use the WM version all the time, everything still works.

Same here.

Me, too.

Just wanted to let you guys know that the download links over at Poser Place are broken... or at least they were for me. Regardless of which link I clicked on (Victoria 4.2WM Update or Shaders/Pose set), I got this error message:

General Error

Could not get style data

Looks like some good stuff from the posts I've been reading, appreciation goes out to the dev team for taking the time to create this tool and for making it free to the public. Cheers.