So far I have worked with preset lights. I used IBL lights from Ness Period Reproductions and the result is very good. But I want to know more about lighting. 

I want to know the difference between IBL and IDL. Which one is "better"? And how I can create IBL ligths? Since I've been more successful with IBL lights.

I hope someone can help me.

Thanks in advance.

Alternately you can convert your panoramic photos to light probe format with a program like HDRshop

Quote - BagginsBill has a utility, genIBL, to create IBL map from your scene.

Where can I get this tool?

Attached Link: Bagginsbill IBL Tool

IBL means you will tell Poser where the light comes from in all directions using an image. Image Based Light. It is a light source. IBL is a way to specify your environmental lighting.

IDL means Poser will use the light coming from light sources (which includes image based lights, infinite lights, spot lights, and point lights) and from objects that glow and from the light that bounces off of objects. It means to process indirect diffuse light.

IDL is not exactly just a way to specify your environmental lighting. IDL and IBL are apples and oranges. Both fruit and can be used together.

If you have IDL available (Poser 7 doesn't, for example) than you don't really need to use IBL. However, if you have image based light kits, you're allowed to use them. I would not go to the trouble of using GenIBL to capture your world as an image for IBL, because you have IDL - IDL does that directly - uses the light from your world.

IBL is a part of the rendering simulation that pretends there is a glowing sphere around your scene. Poser does this in a way that the IBL contributes to light, but the virtual glowing sphere is not there for reflections or for directly looking at by the camera.

With IDL, you can have an actual glowing sphere around your scene. This will provide like, just as the IBL does, but also can be seen in reflections (something to reflect in all directions is crucial to reality of images with shiny objects) and something to see with the camera when you're looking past your subject(s).

The actual primary lighting provided by a correctly formatted IBL vs. a correctly formatted environment sphere and IDL is identical. However, enabling IDL does way more than gather light from the sphere.

If you use both IDL and IBL but do not use an environment sphere, IDL will pretend the image in the IBL is its environment sphere and gather light from it. This is the same input data as IBL alone, but a totally different lighting algorithm. For example, a difference is revealed in an enclosed indoor scene. With IBL alone, the environment light from the IBL will pass through the walls. With IBL + IDL, it will not.

Now that was a nice, concise, clear explanation. I've been curious about those lights--havent experimented with them yet--and now I'll have a better idea of how to try them...thanks, BB.

Thanks for all for help. Especially to BB for excellent explanation.

That was a great, easy to understand explanation, BB.  Thank you very much!

Quote - If you have IDL available (Poser 7 doesn't, for example) than you don't really need to use IBL. However, if you have image based light kits, you're allowed to use them. I would not go to the trouble of using GenIBL to capture your world as an image for IBL, because you have IDL - IDL does that directly - uses the light from your world.

The one case I can think of why you might still want to do it is if you have a lot of geometry located "off-camera" that you want to affect the scene. I can think, for example, of one of Stonemason's urban settings, which you might want to have reflected off a polished chrome prop.

So, I must ask. In Poser Pro 2012, if I am using BB's Environment sphere, to IBL lights even work in conjunction. I have run some tests with an IBL light with no image attached and not seen much of a difference in the light. I think I remember something about Poser 7 maybe, where the IBL light and Environment sphere didn't work together? Just asking because I exclusively use an Environment sphere in PP2012.

svl. yrs ago, katerina showed that poser IBL implementation very lo-res, with hole in polar area, such that even 400X400 map was overkill.  my advice: do not use IBL in poser 8 or later.  bill erred in saying IDL wasn't present in poser 7.  stefan added GIvariables to P7 for those courageous enuff to try them, but almost nobody did (unsupported).

Yes, I know of the P7 implimentation of GI. There was a python script at the time that allowed you to access it and I did try it out. Unfortunately the rendering was so terribly slow that I stopped it halfway through a small test image, but what I saw really looked great at the time. No, what I'm referring too was a problem between IBL and the Environment sphere where the sphere blocked the IBL. I ask because a couple of test scenes that BB has released for PP2012 makes use of a low level IBL light and yet when I've tested IBLs in conjunction with an Environment sphere it seems that the sphere is blocking the light from the IBL just like it did in a previous verion of Poser (P7, I think). I'm supposing you shouldn't use the two together in PP2012. I just wondering.

IBL + sphere, IDL OFF- sphere does not block the light and provides no light itself, but does show in reflections.

IBL + sphere, IDL ON - sphere blocks the IBL and provides the light and shows in reflections - the IBL does nothing

Note that the only difference in these two scenes is enable/disable IDL in render settings.

Does this mean you should remove the IBL?

Not if you're doing test renders. When I want fast test renders, I can turn off the IDL the IBL will take over providing some world-light. Flip IDL on, and the IBL is ignored.

Also (and I don't ever bother doing this) if you make the sphere even partially transparent, then IBL light will partially pass through.

Quote - > Quote - If you have IDL available (Poser 7 doesn't, for example) than you don't really need to use IBL. However, if you have image based light kits, you're allowed to use them. I would not go to the trouble of using GenIBL to capture your world as an image for IBL, because you have IDL - IDL does that directly - uses the light from your world.

The one case I can think of why you might still want to do it is if you have a lot of geometry located "off-camera" that you want to affect the scene. I can think, for example, of one of Stonemason's urban settings, which you might want to have reflected off a polished chrome prop.

Please clarify your reference to "might still want to do this". Do what? Make an IBL of your scene using GenIBL?

Making an IBL will not do anything for your reflections. Having an environment full of objects (or a sphere faking it) will. GenIBL doesn't do that - it fakes the light, not the scene. EnvSphere can fake the scene if you want reflections and provide the light if you enable IDL.

If you're talking about photographing the actual Stonemason set as an environment, using GenIBL, and then using HDRShop to convert it to some other format such as EnvSphere Equirectangular, then you could use the photo as a stand-in for the set. But GenIBL alone will not do all those steps. It only gets you ready to use an IBL to light your scene.

Quote - svl. yrs ago, katerina showed that poser IBL implementation very lo-res, with hole in polar area, such that even 400X400 map was overkill.  my advice: do not use IBL in poser 8 or later.  bill erred in saying IDL wasn't present in poser 7.  stefan added GIvariables to P7 for those courageous enuff to try them, but almost nobody did (unsupported).

Maybe she did, but I showed that 32 x 32 was more than enough for what people were doing then.

I don't understand why you advise against using IBL in Poser 8 or later? Why? It works fine as a source of light from outside your scene. If you're also using EnvSphere and you enable IDL and the sphere is opaque, then there is no need to advise for or against the IBL - it is not a factor.

As for IDL in Poser 7, that's a joke. You could make the same claim that the new hair shading node is in Poser 9. Yeah, if you like to use things that you can only reach by scripting, and also that work like crap - then it's there. But for the general public who like things to be reachable in the UI, and like them to actually work well enough to show the results, it's not there.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - If you have IDL available (Poser 7 doesn't, for example) than you don't really need to use IBL. However, if you have image based light kits, you're allowed to use them. I would not go to the trouble of using GenIBL to capture your world as an image for IBL, because you have IDL - IDL does that directly - uses the light from your world.

The one case I can think of why you might still want to do it is if you have a lot of geometry located "off-camera" that you want to affect the scene. I can think, for example, of one of Stonemason's urban settings, which you might want to have reflected off a polished chrome prop.

Please clarify your reference to "might still want to do this". Do what? Make an IBL of your scene using GenIBL?

Making an IBL will not do anything for your reflections. Having an environment full of objects (or a sphere faking it) will. GenIBL doesn't do that - it fakes the light, not the scene. EnvSphere can fake the scene if you want reflections and provide the light if you enable IDL.

If you're talking about photographing the actual Stonemason set as an environment, using GenIBL, and then using HDRShop to convert it to some other format such as EnvSphere Equirectangular, then you could use the photo as a stand-in for the set. But GenIBL alone will not do all those steps. It only gets you ready to use an IBL to light your scene.

You got it right what I was thinking of doing. Now that you explained that the IBL won't show up in reflections, then I can see that there is no point to do so. Thanks for saving me a lot of pointless troubleshooting.