Quote - Zev0 : Your just on the wrong fourm to ever win a V6 is more loved then a V4 argument.

LOL, agreed. No point in arguing. I gotta finish my V6 project anyway since I asked some other PAs how their products are selling with all the forum fights and they were surprised with their sales.

Quote - A company cannot lie about facts like that. They can get into serious trouble. And it is true anyways. Daz went over the stats with some of us a few days ago because we were interested ourselves. But that is confidential information.

BULL.

To start with, prt of your NDA wouldnt allow you to say stuff like that, especially if it happened for real. Youre just making stuff up to make yourself sound important and in the know. If DAZ pa rep was alerted to what you are saying here, youd get a nice talking to about what your nda covers.

...sorry about multiple posts folks. I never seem to manage to get everything out in one.... ADD.

Did I give any actual information out prior to the announcement they made today? Did I say it was selling better than Genesis1 before the announcement? Did I give out any actual numbers? I don't think so. I simply said it is not a dud:) Stop reaching please. Anyways this thread has gone in all different directions..moving on...

There's a million ++ CGI Artist.
There's a lot of CGI App's that do well.

I think Dawn & V6 both can do very well.
Even get a long ,they are sisters after all.

You and Daz said V6 is the most successful release. That implies it is selling better than Genesis 1.

Quote - You and Daz said V6 is the most successful release. That implies it is selling better than Genesis 1.

I posted that comment after they released the info publically. V6 is a selling product, so success can only be determined via its sales. Isn't that kind of an obvious fact in determining a selling products success?

Quote - You and Daz said V6 is the most successful release. That implies it is selling better than Genesis 1.

It sold better than V5's release... and V4's release.

The surprise was the V4 part, considering the issues in the forum about splitting Genesis into two figures. One person got CRAZY sales; I won't say who, but you could probably figure it out if V6 sold well.

Quote - Did I give any actual information out prior to the announcement they made today? Did I say it was selling better than Genesis1 before the announcement? Did I give out any actual numbers? I don't think so. I simply said it is not a dud:) Stop reaching please. Anyways this thread has gone in all different directions..moving on...

It's not the forum audience or me that you have to convince, its between you and DAZ.

Bottom line remains, if the product was as succesful as DAZ says it is, you wouldnt have to argue with people over it. Heck, even I would be busy making stuff for it, instead of reading forums. I dont care much what figure and software I use as long as my rent is paid.

Quote - > Quote - Did I give any actual information out prior to the announcement they made today? Did I say it was selling better than Genesis1 before the announcement? Did I give out any actual numbers? I don't think so. I simply said it is not a dud:) Stop reaching please. Anyways this thread has gone in all different directions..moving on...

It's not the forum audience or me that you have to convince, its between you and DAZ.

Bottom line remains, if the product was as succesful as DAZ says it is, you wouldnt have to argue with people over it. Heck, even I would be busy making stuff for it, instead of reading forums. I dont care much what figure and software I use as long as my rent is paid.

Connie, he wasn't the who started the notion or the thread that V6 was a dud. Some forumite with absolutely no information did.. and everyone chimed in on it, wanting it to be true... including you. I think that's a bigger issue here.

We know otherwise, and other PAs that's getting good sales with V6's introduction know that too. But it's no sense arguing about it if you already have DAZ's doom made up in your mind.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Did I give any actual information out prior to the announcement they made today? Did I say it was selling better than Genesis1 before the announcement? Did I give out any actual numbers? I don't think so. I simply said it is not a dud:) Stop reaching please. Anyways this thread has gone in all different directions..moving on...

It's not the forum audience or me that you have to convince, its between you and DAZ.

Bottom line remains, if the product was as succesful as DAZ says it is, you wouldnt have to argue with people over it. Heck, even I would be busy making stuff for it, instead of reading forums. I dont care much what figure and software I use as long as my rent is paid.

Connie, he wasn't the who started the notion or the thread that V6 was a dud. Some forumite with absolutely no information did.. and everyone chimed in on it, wanting it to be true... including you. I think that's a bigger issue here.

We know otherwise, and other PAs that's getting good sales with V6's introduction know that too. But it's no sense arguing about it if you already have DAZ's doom made up in your mind.

Sigh, ye there is no point. Even if we give an unbiased opinion that makes valid sense we still get shat on because we develope for the Evil Genesis. It's just really sad..

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Did I give any actual information out prior to the announcement they made today? Did I say it was selling better than Genesis1 before the announcement? Did I give out any actual numbers? I don't think so. I simply said it is not a dud:) Stop reaching please. Anyways this thread has gone in all different directions..moving on...

It's not the forum audience or me that you have to convince, its between you and DAZ.

Bottom line remains, if the product was as succesful as DAZ says it is, you wouldnt have to argue with people over it. Heck, even I would be busy making stuff for it, instead of reading forums. I dont care much what figure and software I use as long as my rent is paid.

Connie, he wasn't the who started the notion or the thread that V6 was a dud. Some forumite with absolutely no information did.. and everyone chimed in on it, wanting it to be true... including you. I think that's a bigger issue here.

We know otherwise, and other PAs that's getting good sales with V6's introduction know that too. But it's no sense arguing about it if you already have DAZ's doom made up in your mind.

If there is no sense arguing then why are you still here arguing. Didn't you say you have a v6 project to go work on few posts ago?

Ill believe V6 is a success when I see every major content brokerage in poserdom start releasing at least 70% all v6 and genesis 2 items. Untill then, you're wasting your breath.

It's pure advertising what Male_M3dia and Zev0 do here for DAZ**.** And the nonsense about the sales of V6 after just one week or so in release is simply absurd. They just state they know better because they work for DAZ. And I just don't believe that some freelancing vendors get these informations from a company at any time. But especially not in this stage of selling something new. No business does that. And they sell so much with Genesis but have so much time to do their campaigning for Genesis related stuff here and elsewhere? No, they use every minute to sell at least a bit of these things themselves because DAZ failed at that.

And I like Genesis and use it in Poser. But this Facebook/Amazon-style spammings where sellers try to influence the consumers with bizarre comments where reality does not matter I hate.

They are just couple guys who always have to be right, so tey embelish their stories amd make up what seems to be logical filler... and they happen to make stuff for genesis. I dont know why I keep replying... bad habit.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Did I give any actual information out prior to the announcement they made today? Did I say it was selling better than Genesis1 before the announcement? Did I give out any actual numbers? I don't think so. I simply said it is not a dud:) Stop reaching please. Anyways this thread has gone in all different directions..moving on...

It's not the forum audience or me that you have to convince, its between you and DAZ.

Bottom line remains, if the product was as succesful as DAZ says it is, you wouldnt have to argue with people over it. Heck, even I would be busy making stuff for it, instead of reading forums. I dont care much what figure and software I use as long as my rent is paid.

Connie, he wasn't the who started the notion or the thread that V6 was a dud. Some forumite with absolutely no information did.. and everyone chimed in on it, wanting it to be true... including you. I think that's a bigger issue here.

We know otherwise, and other PAs that's getting good sales with V6's introduction know that too. But it's no sense arguing about it if you already have DAZ's doom made up in your mind.

If there is no sense arguing then why are you still here arguing. Didn't you say you have a v6 project to go work on few posts ago?

Ill believe V6 is a success when I see every major content brokerage in poserdom start releasing at least 70% all v6 and genesis 2 items. Untill then, you're wasting your breath.

Like I said your mind is made up. I'm not the one arguing. I know it DSON doesn't work well in Poser, however, it doesn't mean V6 couldn't possibly outsell V4... it possibly means most of DAZ's customers aren't Poser users anymore and been replaced by new users. I think that's the hard pill a lot of Poser users have to swallow so these threads don't pop up.

Quote - They are just couple guys who always have to be right, so tey embelish their stories amd make up what seems to be logical filler... and they happen to make stuff for genesis. I dont know why I keep replying... bad habit.

Connie and I know you have it in for DAZ ever since the ToolBoi fiasco so I know you have it in for DAZ ever since.

It's not about being right or advertising for Daz lol, it was about providing information about the actual situation. People think Genesis2 is a failure, we simply pointed out it is not. How is that advertising? So what, its best for people to read threads based off in-accurate and false information based on assumptions? Fine. If thats what threads are meant for then so be it. Believe it or not there are some Poser users who use Genesis, and since most people here are making gross false assumptions, its unfair to them reading these threads. Look at me however you want, I honestly do not care. If something is false and is being viewed by many, actual fact has to be stated at some point to set the record straight for those who actually want to know what is going on.

Eh, I think it's pretty obvious that most of DAZ's customers aren't Poser users any more.  Why is that a hard pill?  It's not like there's nowhere else to spend my money.

The real question is how much this is hurting DAZ. 

It seems like the market is getting more splintered.  Even if Dawn becomes the new Vicky...she's weight-mapped.  Users of older versions of Poser won't be able to use her, so V4 will likely still hang around. 

In theory, more figures is a great thing.  In practice...I wonder if it might have the result of driving prices up.  Maybe the market is growing fast enough to support it, but if not...merchants are going to have to raise their prices, because they're selling fewer copies, or get out of the business.

V4 was given away for free - even early adaptors which paid for it were refunded.

Not hard to beat those sales figures....

Quote -  

The real question is how much this is hurting DAZ. 

That's the hard pill and why these threads keep popping up. If the Poser users have been replaced by new users, then they aren't hurting.

That's why Genesis 2 is still not natively Poser. They don't have to make it, because it isn't hurting them not to make one. But threads here want to think that they are hurting.

This is why I hope Dawn is successful for Poser users, so they can quit arguing about genesis and get back to rendering.

I think this thread is way past its usefulness.

Whether or not DAZ is hurting is not a hard pill.  I'm curious about it, but I don't care either way.  (Well, I will be annoyed if they go under and whoever buys their assets no longer offers free re-downloads of past purchases.)

However, their actions suggest to me that they do miss Poser users.  Why even bother with DSON, if they don't need Poser users?  That sucker had to take up a lot of their time and resources.  Time they could have used for other things, like writing a manual for their software, or updating Bryce or Carrara or Hexagon.  Not to mention the never-ending sales, despite the promise of a new pricing model involving fewer sales.  They even gave me an annual PC membership for free.  Ten years a DAZ customer, and they never did that before.  Free weekends, sure, even a free month now and then, but a free year?

No doubt they miss Poser users. For years they have been a big part of the market. But because SM is not changing their stance on Genesis intergration, Daz has to go via DSON in order to keep Genesis structure the same as it is in DS. On one hand you have Daz who are not willing to strip down Genesis functionality to cater for both apps, and on the other you have SM who will not change their app to fully intergrate Genesis. It's a sad state of affairs but it is what it is.

Quote - > Quote - They are just couple guys who always have to be right, so tey embelish their stories amd make up what seems to be logical filler... and they happen to make stuff for genesis. I dont know why I keep replying... bad habit.

Connie and I know you have it in for DAZ ever since the ToolBoi fiasco so I know you have it in for DAZ ever since.

Wrong. Toolboi was just the straw that broke the camels back, and yed, DAZ screwed up royally on that and few other things (I can get into them lather, but now they would make foe a wall of text). DAZ's endless internal crap is the reason I left, because they made it impossible to sell there and pay rent, mostly with their genesis manouvers.

I wasn't willing what few other vendors had to do, file for bankruptcy and continue to take losses being a PA at DAZ. Any company that screws with my business to that point is not going to be my favorite, however, I'm always willing to give second chances, as life is a long time, and people do make mistakes. Something you haven't learned yet. You will when you get older.

As I said before, when I see positive changes at DAZ, I'm more then willing to give second chances. I haven't seen the changes I'm looking for yet. 

If I really had it in for DAZ, I wouldn't rant about it on forums, I'd just sue them.

Quote - They are just couple guys who always have to be right, so tey embelish their stories amd make up what seems to be logical filler... and they happen to make stuff for genesis. I dont know why I keep replying... bad habit.

I think nearly all of us have been in a back and forth with these two vendors. They frequently operate as a tag team. It was their rampaging during the first "Genesis War" that left such a bad taste in my mouth that it was hard for me to give the figure much of a chance, especially when it meant learning a whole new program. I can only think that Daz sanctions this behavior, as I would think if they did not, they would say something to their vendors about controlling this kind of unauthorized advertisement. One of them claims to have a degree in marketing, but really, I am not certain I believe that as he seems to know very little about the psych. and mindset of buyers, an absolute must for people in the marketing industry. If they think this is the way to sell something, they need to think again.

Quote - > Quote - They are just couple guys who always have to be right, so tey embelish their stories amd make up what seems to be logical filler... and they happen to make stuff for genesis. I dont know why I keep replying... bad habit.

I think nearly all of us have been in a back and forth with these two vendors. They frequently operate as a tag team. It was their rampaging during the first "Genesis War" that left such a bad taste in my mouth that it was hard for me to give the figure much of a chance, especially when it meant learning a whole new program. I can only think that Daz sanctions this behavior, as I would think if they did not, they would say something to their vendors about controlling this kind of unauthorized advertisement. One of them claims to have a degree in marketing, but really, I am not certain I believe that as he seems to know very little about the psych. and mindset of buyers, an absolute must for people in the marketing industry. If they think this is the way to sell something, they need to think again.

Tag team? At least we don't gangbang lol. Once again who said we are trying to sell anything? We are just posting responses to mis-guided information and assumptions because we happen to know a few things based on what we heard. Jeez. You guys attack Genesis2 calling it a DUD, we tell you its not, now you can't accept that, now you want to jump down our throats and make us look like advertisers? I have posted in these forums long before I was a PA and long before I sold at DAZ, and I always voiced my opinion. Don't let the fact that I create content for Genesis cloud your views on that. It is actually pathetic and an easy way out to losing to a debate. So what we must all agree yeah Genesis2 is a dud, when it's not remotely true? Do you know how stupid that is? So what, you preffer rumors over actual fact? Yes, because the rumors is what we all want to hear instead of the truth because the truth does not agree with you? Really. Attack me personally all you want, it's not going to change the facts of the situation in the market place, be it to your benefit or not. And FYI I am a free agent. I sell here at rendo as well. Don't see why you must bring up "how can Daz sanction such behaviour" How is that valid to anything? If I told you I was making content for Dawn instead of Genesis you would be treating me differently. Sad isn't it?

Quote - I have heard that there are some indigenous people in Borneo that still don't use Daz.

I missed you terribly V, but I never knew why until now. :)

==

Quote - Not really, if the tri's are well positioned.

Agreed. Tris I can live with if they're discreet. nGons on the other hand? Euuw.

==

Quote - SM may not have wanted Genesis, but it's very important for them to give their customers figures and content that use the full capablities of the program; and for the last 2 years they haven't done it.

*angelic chrous breaks out, singing "Thank yooooouuuuu!" *

(Seriously - very well put!)

==

As for how well/not Vicky 6 is selling? Meh.

Sorry, can't be arsed to care. Hope it turns out well, and given that they're continuing with new versions of it, apparently Genesis is doing well. 

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - They are just couple guys who always have to be right, so tey embelish their stories amd make up what seems to be logical filler... and they happen to make stuff for genesis. I dont know why I keep replying... bad habit.

I think nearly all of us have been in a back and forth with these two vendors. They frequently operate as a tag team. It was their rampaging during the first "Genesis War" that left such a bad taste in my mouth that it was hard for me to give the figure much of a chance, especially when it meant learning a whole new program. I can only think that Daz sanctions this behavior, as I would think if they did not, they would say something to their vendors about controlling this kind of unauthorized advertisement. One of them claims to have a degree in marketing, but really, I am not certain I believe that as he seems to know very little about the psych. and mindset of buyers, an absolute must for people in the marketing industry. If they think this is the way to sell something, they need to think again.

 

Tag team? At least we don't gangbang lol. Once again who said we are trying to sell anything? We are just posting responses to mis-guided information and assumptions because we happen to know a few things based on what we heard. Jeez. You guys attack Genesis2 calling it a DUD, we tell you its not, now you can't accept that, now you want to jump down our throats and make us look like advertisers? I have posted in these forums long before I was a PA and long before I sold at DAZ, and I always voiced my opinion. Don't let the fact that I create content for Genesis cloud your views on that. It is actually pathetic and an easy way out to losing to a debate. So what we must all agree yeah Genesis2 is a dud, when it's not remotely true? Do you know how stupid that is? So what, you preffer rumors over actual fact? Yes, because the rumors is what we all want to hear instead of the truth because the truth does not agree with you? Really. Attack me personally all you want, it's not going to change the facts of the situation in the market place, be it to your benefit or not. And FYI I am a free agent. I sell here at rendo as well. Don't see why you must bring up "how can Daz sanction such behaviour" How is that valid to anything? If I told you I was making content for Dawn instead of Genesis you would be treating me differently. Sad isn't it?

A troll is a troll  no matter who they develop for.

Quote - A troll is a troll  no matter who they develop for.

It's fine, I don't mind being called a troll. At least I am not oblivious to see what is happening around us and in this industry.

Quote - It's fine, I don't mind being called a troll. At least I am not oblivious to see what is happening around us and in this industry.

And modest too!

Quote -  

Quote - SM may not have wanted Genesis, but it's very important for them to give their customers figures and content that use the full capablities of the program; and for the last 2 years they haven't done it.

*angelic chrous breaks out, singing "Thank yooooouuuuu!" *

(Seriously - very well put!)

 

Well that's the honest truth. If these people were being honest with themselves instead of needlessly name calling, they'd take a look at the true duds that have came and went over the two years, where the phrases "gamechanger" or "breathes new life" were used and were eventually abandoned in a few months or less. Genesis wouldn't even make that list.

I'll start the list for you and feel free to look through your own posts in the past to see if you used those phrases in reference to them:

Antonia, Anastasia,Tyler, Michelle, WM V4 (where's the native content from vendors before you get up in arms), WM David, WM V3... and since everyone's pretty much done talking about it since now people are pinning their hopes on Dawn: Fitting room, Rex, Roxie. (Tools to free content from the figures, now it's back to a single figure... that movement didn't even last a month)

There's your true duds. 

Reminds me of the joke - 

20% of deaths on the road last year were caused by drunken drivers........hang on a minute, that means 80% were caused by sober drivers so why don't all the sober drivers get off the road and let the drunks drive in relative saftey.

Clearly really stupid but it shows you can prove anything with statistics.  Here we have no statistics at all just the claim that V6 was a more successful launch than V4.....yea right.  Talk of desperation ......WOW.. S**t......sorry had to duck to avoid yet another flying pig.

Strange thing is I don't think V6 is a dud but I would rather gauge success on the word of a vendor who sells products for a living, and has no axe to grind either way, than what has been claimed here.

Human nature, if you make wild vague claims that cannot/will not be backed up with real figures the buyer gets very worried, irrespective of how good the product is.

Lol.

V3WM and D3WM never were meant to "replace" anything or be "the next great Poser hope".

All my own figures are based on a 3rd Gen hybrid mesh because when it comes to realism, that mesh topology is superior to anything else DAZ or SM or anyone else have ever released.

I've weightmapped my figures and gotten a bit annoyed by all the nonsense I had to constantly read about rigging, so I released these two into the wild to demonstrate how good a Poser figure can bend if properly rigged.

So anytime someone now claims that Poser just "isn't capeable of better rigging", I can just point them to V3WM or D3WM and prove them wrong.

No intentions or illusions to make them a "mass movement"or saving the Poserverse from evil Genesis domination.

Just showing off my superior elite rigging skillzzzz and giving those old-school die-hards that don't like V4 and M4 a nicer bending figure to play with.

Use it. Learn from it. Improve it and re-share it.

I'm happy if you do, but not really heartbroken if you don't.

Just thought it was time (again) to share some of my toys.

That was all.

;-)

Chris Creek and Steve Kondris posted a little more Dawn info last night.

No images of the body or mesh topology yet, but they promise that's next.  Dawn is designed for morphing, and has the mesh density in the breast and hip area for it.  Several breast morphs are included in the free base pack.

Nipples are allowed on the skin maps sold at HiveWire3D.

Dawn contains no JCMs.

Quote - Lol.

V3WM and D3WM never were meant to "replace" anything or be "the next great Poser hope".

All my own figures are based on a 3rd Gen hybrid mesh because when it comes to realism, that mesh topology is superior to anything else DAZ or SM or anyone else have ever released.

I've weightmapped my figures and gotten a bit annoyed by all the nonsense I had to constantly read about rigging, so I released these two into the wild to demonstrate how good a Poser figure can bend if properly rigged.

So anytime someone now claims that Poser just "isn't capeable of better rigging", I can just point them to V3WM or D3WM and prove them wrong.

No intentions or illusions to make them a "mass movement"or saving the Poserverse from evil Genesis domination.

Just showing off my superior elite rigging skillzzzz and giving those old-school die-hards that don't like V4 and M4 a nicer bending figure to play with.

Use it. Learn from it. Improve it and re-share it.

I'm happy if you do, but not really heartbroken if you don't.

Just thought it was time (again) to share some of my toys.

That was all.

;-)

 

Your work is amazing. I have seen a number of people over at DA who say they still prefer their 3rd Gen Characters over anything else. I occasionally use them as well.

In the Poser world, V6 is a dud.  

Considering that DAZ more than likely has many, many more customers than they had on V4's free release, is it really so surprising that V6 may have sold more than V4 "sold" in the first week?  Though, DAZ could be qualifying that "more successful than any other figure on release" in ways that mean absolutely nothing.

Marketing is like that.  "Creative" skewing of facts and outright false claims.

Personally, I don't care whether V6 / Genesis 2 is or is not a dud or a success in the DAZ world.  It doesn't work any better in Poser than V5 / Genesis, therefore, it's worthless.

Now, if Dawn is the success I expect her to be, we may see a native Poser figure come out of DAZ once again.  

Quote - Your work is amazing. I have seen a number of people over at DA who say they still prefer their 3rd Gen Characters over anything else. I occasionally use them as well.

Ditto.  I still love the third generation characters (not least because they had, IMO, the greatest variety of clothing, characters, etc.) and JoePublic's rigging skillz have given them new life. 

Never expected them to de-throne V4, however. These days, a lot of people don't even own V3 and D3.  V4 is seven years old, after all.

Quote - > Quote - Your work is amazing. I have seen a number of people over at DA who say they still prefer their 3rd Gen Characters over anything else. I occasionally use them as well.

Ditto.  I still love the third generation characters (not least because they had, IMO, the greatest variety of clothing, characters, etc.) and JoePublic's rigging skillz have given them new life. 

Never expected them to de-throne V4, however. These days, a lot of people don't even own V3 and D3.  V4 is seven years old, after all.

I agree, there was a lot of great clothing for that generation. Some of mypersonal faces are at X-urge and actually easy to use with m4 by making the body invisible lol. This works with full body armor anyway easier than converting

You know, I'm not a moderator, but I predict that with all the sniping going on in this thread that it's headed for a lockdown. Truthfully, I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has.

Quote - You know, I'm not a moderator, but I predict that with all the sniping going on in this thread that it's headed for a lockdown. Truthfully, I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has.

I am sure you are right and I am surprised but the title was a bit provocative from the start but it made 10 pages.  The sad fact is that all this does not help the community and yes I have been guilty of not helping the situation at times but I do feel sorry for anyone who does not know the background and is trying to make thier mind up.

All I do know is that one thread at RDNA seemed to describe the situation rather well and without emotion or exageration and thus seemed to show how such threads can be helpful.

I don't use Genesis because of the extra work to make it viable in Poser.  That does not mean I think it is rubbish nor do I want to see Poser of Daz go to the wall.  Neither does it stop me wishing it did work a lot easier in Poser if only for the people that want to use it.  Will it happen?  A few weeks ago I would have said NO, with the impending release of Dawn I am not so sure but somehow I still doubt it and I think that is a shame.   Am I going to loose sleep over it no, because that is life, you have to play the cards you are dealt not the ones you wished you had.

Quote - You know, I'm not a moderator, but I predict that with all the sniping going on in this thread that it's headed for a lockdown. Truthfully, I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has.

I'm rather suprised myself.    It's kind of devolved from fact-based arguing . . . to marketing-claim-based-arguing (there is a difference between information that is derrived of emperical observation and carefully selected elements that are "spun")... gradeschool name calling ("troll" ... "fanboy" ...etc.)

I think the opinions have been voiced.  From the DAZ side: V6 is the most successful launch ever.  From the Poser side: "DSON makes V6 a 'dud' in our eyes."

I'm sort of with the Poser folks... V6 with DSON is non-starter for me because DSON just doesn't work that well (for me and apparently others like AlfaSeeD)... I'm also with Connie that DAZ's business practices leave me cold, which definitely impacts my opinion.

I believe the market will ultimately sort it out.   Will Hivewire save the world?   Dunno. Time will tell wether they can produce a popular "next-gen" (e.g. weight-mapped) that vendors and users will support.   I'd like to see them succeed if only because some true competition in the figure market would be good thing.   (As it appears to have been for the app market.)

-K

As much as I like the idea of Dawn, I'm really hoping she doesn't turn out to be just V4 version 2.0.

I've never used Genesis,  I can't because of Open GL issues with my computer, plus I just don't like DS, but frankly, I've never been on board with the one figure morphing  into everything  idea. Seems that idea was washed out when V4 could turn into the V4 male. Now with Genesis 2, it just seems that idea has just been reinforced.

That said, let's stop the sniping folks. If you don't like what's being said,  just stop reading the thread.

I love some of the third generation characters too. M3 is still my most-used male figure. And I love A3 and H3 - nothing has replaced those two for me yet. V3 I have to say I didn't like so much except with AS's Yaara and Keilo morphs. I still use those quite a bit because they're an interesting and different look.

Quote - I love some of the third generation characters too. M3 is still my most-used male figure. And I love A3 and H3 - nothing has replaced those two for me yet. V3 I have to say I didn't like so much except with AS's Yaara and Keilo morphs. I still use those quite a bit because they're an interesting and different look.

With the fitting room & 1-click weight mapping, I am getting use out of a lot of older characters - Eroko looks great with subdivision 1.

As far as "best selling figure nonsense"....

According to their join dates, neither one of these genesis vendors were around for the V4 launch - therefore, they have no numbers to work with.

The only way to know numbers would be if they were DAZ employees. 

However, comparing numbers between V4 launch and genesis launch would require documentation.

And we all know how DAZ does documentation.  :laugh:

 I suspect that any claim of "best selling" is based on dollar amounts at DAZ.  Keep the following realities in mind.......

When V4 was launched, there were a lot of store fronts to choose from.  In contrast, genesis content is 90%+ at the DAZ storefront only.

V4 content was insanely low-priced during the roll out.  I can actually go back and look at my purchase history, at DAZ and every other storefront I shop at. 

Genesis content has always been higher priced, therefore, it takes fewer sales to equal the same dollar amount.

I am sure the few genesis vendors that sell at DAZ are seeing good numbers - it isn't like they have much in the way of competition.  Genesis figure only support outside of DAZ is about the same level as Miki 4.

Perusing DAZ's storefront shows the following:

Male figure vendors only make 3.12 figures on average (78 figures/25 vendors) - however 46 of those are made by just 4 vendors - Forbidden Whispers, JSGraphics, Male_3dia clock in with 12 each & Raiya with 10, leaving the other 21 vendors with 32 figures equaling 1.52 figures.

 Female figure vendors 3.13 (125 figures/40 vendors) figures for the females.  Of note 26 of those are made by just 2 vendors (Raiya with 14 figures and Silver with 12), which leaves the remaining 38 vendors with 2.66 figures on average.

Can you say "limited selection"?  I knew you could.  This is G2 figure (Sydney/Simon) territory.

All numbers via the DAZ search function (male/female, genesis).  Of course, I am sure I'll be told that the DAZ search function doesn't work properly and isn't finding all the figures.  Which of course, will be my fault, not DAZ's.

And keep in mind that most of those also come with a gen4 figure.

I am sure Zev0 is making money with his genesis fixes - it isn't like anyone else is making them, so he does have a bit of a captive market.

And I am sure Male_3dia is doing well, since he has made 10% of the genesis male figures at the DAZ storefront.  And he is is pretty much the only vendor making non-Caucasian figures, so that will also drive sales his way.

I really belive their time would be better spent on making better genesis products, because, god knows, the only thing they have accomplished here (and at other storefront forums), is reinforce the notion that genesis isn't all that and a bag of chips.

Quote - Can you say "limited selection"?  I knew you could.  This is G2 figure (Sydney/Simon) territory.

Genesis doesn't need a whole load of new figures. However new figures do sell well. Why? People mix and match to make their own results. Genesis is about choice. The term "Adding to my Gene pool" is commenly used. Same thing with clothing. Higher volume sales because it is not confined to one specific figure shape, type. That is what Genesis was made for. And with GenX - It has all M4 & V4 character sets. That equates to more than V4 characters on her own, or M4 characters on his own. And also V3 and M3, Aiko etc. Can you say biggest selection territory? Same thing with UV sets. They might like a new M5 character, but want to use one of their favourite M4 textures. Know of any other figure that provides users with such flexability on the fly without jumping through hoops? People will mix some of M4 morphs with a Genesis character etc..That is how people use Genesis. And those who use it as their main figure of choice understand that well. You might not "get it" or find it appealing, but those who use it do. I read the Dawn forum and people are asking for features that are already in Genesis. What does that tell you? People want that level of flexability on a figure. But here I go again, sounding like a sales person, and simply am not just stating an observation.

YAY! personal attacks! drama! accustations! hidden drama and backstory... just need a murder and a custard pie battle.

look. you could have told me.. I'd have gotten popcorn....

Lol there's ten pages of goodness:)

This thread is not about politics or religion. Those pale in comparison to this debate.  ;-)

Long mail of sales data. I was rolling my eyes but read it anyway. It made me laugh.

Well done.

One question: how do you do 1 click weight mapping?

Quote - > Quote - I love some of the third generation characters too. M3 is still my most-used male figure. And I love A3 and H3 - nothing has replaced those two for me yet. V3 I have to say I didn't like so much except with AS's Yaara and Keilo morphs. I still use those quite a bit because they're an interesting and different look.

 

With the fitting room & 1-click weight mapping, I am getting use out of a lot of older characters - Eroko looks great with subdivision 1.

 

As far as "best selling figure nonsense"....

According to their join dates, neither one of these genesis vendors were around for the V4 launch - therefore, they have no numbers to work with.

The only way to know numbers would be if they were DAZ employees. 

However, comparing numbers between V4 launch and genesis launch would require documentation.

And we all know how DAZ does documentation.  :laugh:

 I suspect that any claim of "best selling" is based on dollar amounts at DAZ.  Keep the following realities in mind.......

When V4 was launched, there were a lot of store fronts to choose from.  In contrast, genesis content is 90%+ at the DAZ storefront only.

V4 content was insanely low-priced during the roll out.  I can actually go back and look at my purchase history, at DAZ and every other storefront I shop at. 

Genesis content has always been higher priced, therefore, it takes fewer sales to equal the same dollar amount.

I am sure the few genesis vendors that sell at DAZ are seeing good numbers - it isn't like they have much in the way of competition.  Genesis figure only support outside of DAZ is about the same level as Miki 4.

Perusing DAZ's storefront shows the following:

Male figure vendors only make 3.12 figures on average (78 figures/25 vendors) - however 46 of those are made by just 4 vendors - Forbidden Whispers, JSGraphics, Male_3dia clock in with 12 each & Raiya with 10, leaving the other 21 vendors with 32 figures equaling 1.52 figures.

 Female figure vendors 3.13 (125 figures/40 vendors) figures for the females.  Of note 26 of those are made by just 2 vendors (Raiya with 14 figures and Silver with 12), which leaves the remaining 38 vendors with 2.66 figures on average.

Can you say "limited selection"?  I knew you could.  This is G2 figure (Sydney/Simon) territory.

All numbers via the DAZ search function (male/female, genesis).  Of course, I am sure I'll be told that the DAZ search function doesn't work properly and isn't finding all the figures.  Which of course, will be my fault, not DAZ's.

And keep in mind that most of those also come with a gen4 figure.

I am sure Zev0 is making money with his genesis fixes - it isn't like anyone else is making them, so he does have a bit of a captive market.

And I am sure Male_3dia is doing well, since he has made 10% of the genesis male figures at the DAZ storefront.  And he is is pretty much the only vendor making non-Caucasian figures, so that will also drive sales his way.

I really belive their time would be better spent on making better genesis products, because, god knows, the only thing they have accomplished here (and at other storefront forums), is reinforce the notion that genesis isn't all that and a bag of chips.

Quote - This thread is not about politics or religion.

Depends. I'd say this thread is ALL about politics. And religion ;)

Quote - I agree, there was a lot of great clothing for that generation. Some of mypersonal faces are at X-urge and actually easy to use with m4 by making the body invisible lol. This works with full body armor anyway easier than converting

Yes.  There was also more variety, at least it seemed to me.  I like fantasy as much as the next person, but I also use stuff like sports uniforms. 

It also seems like a lot of today's clothing isn't as detailed and well-made as the older stuff.  Maybe it's because prices have dropped so much.  Or maybe it's the dark side of one-outfit-fits-all?

Quote - Well said.

I suggest to refer to figures as "character figures" or "base figures" depending on their purpose. Clearly TY2 is a (very good) character figure. Clearly DAZ V3,M3,V4,M4 are (very good) base figures. The requirements are not the same. Characters need to be striking, base figures bland, but have loads and loads of morphs available.

Problems arise when a figure is released by developers that are not 100% clear about in which category it is supposed to fit.

Sydney is a character with a very recognisable face. Should she not have been a base figure? Are the Mikis characters or base figures for asian figures?

Rex and Roxie are supposed to be base figures, but why on earth do they not even have basic body scaling morphs built in? I know the users can learn to do full body morphs, but why not have scaling dials available from the start? I hope for good morph packs, R&R are too good to fall into disuse like some of their predecessors.

 

Quote - > Quote - Since when is it SM's job to follow DAZ?

 

You misunderstood what I was getting at - I'll clarify: 

It is SmithMicro's job to make and include a figure that is morphable enough that you can create a variety of differing shapes and looks, and one that should show off well the feature-set of Poser.

Poser 4 had Posette, a Zygote figure that did very well for the time. From Poser 5 onward however, SmithMicro has utterly failed to do what I mentioned up there. Their efforts have been singularly unmorphable globs of mesh that always look alike no matter what you try to do with it. Unless you're a veritable master of mesh, and spend a ton of time in Z-Brush or similar, the results are almost always too easy to pinpoint as being that figure. 

The big selling-point of the Millennium series of meshes that DAZ made is that it only takes a relatively small amount of skill to make the figure into almost anything you want it to, and it takes very little work to make a face look like 'someone else' entirely.

I've lost count of the number of 'Vicky-killer' meshes that have come down the pike... it's been 14 years of them and counting. Seems everyone keeps missing the point, though.

If this 'Dawn' thing comes through, awesome. Not yet holding my breath though - world+dog had the same wishes for Antonia, Alyson, Renda, DinaV, Natalia, etc etc etc.

Only time and results will tell.

Probably for the same reason that most SM products suck in my opinion. i have purchased and downloaded many freebies there and they are usually flawed. Joints don't work properly, texture mapping is awful in many cases too.

For my money DAZ has by far done the better job giving us figures and add-ons clothing/texture/morph support. SUPPORT being the key word here. Many figures have come and gone, dying the awful death from lack of interest and support. So many figures even from DAZ that showed some potential for growth were burned from lack of support from THE FATHER (DAZ).

If DAWN is going to make it the parties that be should remember that if a figure/character human or otherwise is going to be developed and released they better do whatever thy can to support it and gain the support from the community or just don't bother.

Though i kept some of the P4 figures for filler, I have deleted all the figures that came with Poser 5 and Poser7. They sucked in my book. I doubt the newer versions of Poser figures are really any better. THe DAZ Mil figures versions 1-4 are so much better I will stick with them for quite a while yet.