Maybe it's always been this way and I never noticed, but lately it seems like Poser users in the forums spend a lot of time arguing about what is the "correct" or "better" way to do things.  Maybe I'm over-generalizing when I perceive this, but I see the tendency in threads covering Daz versus Poser, lo-mesh with displacement versus hi-mesh with morphs, preferred render options, preferred shader and materials setups, new figure versus old figure, and on and on.  I have gotten caught up in a couple of them, and I've lost my head over the matter, once or twice.  Were we always like this?  Did threads always descend into factions, trying to pressure one another into using Poser only one preferred way?

I don't think we were.  I recall the forums being places where we made discoveries, shared creative projects, celebrated one another's successes, tried to help one another in good faith (whether we knew the correct answer or not), and just generally celebrated Poser even when we were hating its limitations or problems.  Maybe things changed.  Heck, maybe it's me.  Maybe I changed, became a grouch, and now everything looks tainted by grouchiness to me.  I dunno.  Sort of looks to me like it's bigger than just me, though.  :unsure:

I begin to wonder if we've lost sight of an essential point, somewhere, and I include myself in the "we".  We're forgetting that Poser is a creative tool, a fantastic creative tool that offers a wide range of options.  Many things can be done different ways.  A user can pursue a variety of different aesthetics.  We can render (or seek to render) results which are realistic, veristic, hyper-real, surreal, abstract, comic or cartoon-styled, or any number of things... or mix and match at will.  We don't all have to do it the same way.  Poser gives us options, and I think the only time we should really start to freak out about how Poser is being or can be used is when the Poser Team starts taking away creative options.  That doesn't happen often, happily.  :laugh:  We don't all need to pursue realism, although we can.  We don't need to use Daz figures, Smith Micro figures, or any figures at all, but we can.  We don't all need to light a specific way.  We don't all need to seek the same outcomes.  Poser gives us options.

At the same time, Poser does give us plenty of limitations, and we've all spent a lot of time learning the tricks to circumvent them.  Sometimes this is an area where there is only one way to do things.  Sometimes there's no good solution.  Poser has its limits, and we collectively have a long history of applying creativity to working with them.  I think this has enhanced the creative drive of many of us, but maybe it has also played into this "one true way" idea, when a solution is discovered and we begin to apply it rigidly.  Sometimes there is only one way, but not always.

This is probably a rubbish post, and it may just sink like a stone... and maybe it should.  I'm just musing about things, not preaching.  I don't have an answer to much of anything, ultimately.  I'm not all that bright.  :laugh:  But Poser as a creative tool has allowed even a dummy like me to accomplish a thing or two, over the years.  If I have any point at all, here, I think it is: "Hey, everybody!  Let's celebrate Poser!  What an awesome, super creative tool this thing is!  Hooray!"  :woot:

(... And then tomorrow Cage comes back and his head is exploding over some new Poser bug.  :lol:)

Quote - Maybe it's always been this way and I never noticed, but lately it seems like Poser users in the forums spend a lot of time arguing about what is the "correct" or "better" way to do things.  Maybe I'm over-generalizing when I perceive this, but I see the tendency in threads covering Daz versus Poser, lo-mesh with displacement versus hi-mesh with morphs, preferred render options, preferred shader and materials setups, new figure versus old figure, and on and on.  I have gotten caught up in a couple of them, and I've lost my head over the matter, once or twice.  Were we always like this?  Did threads always descend into factions, trying to pressure one another into using Poser only one preferred way?

I don't think we were.  I recall the forums being places where we made discoveries, shared creative projects, celebrated one another's successes, tried to help one another in good faith (whether we knew the correct answer or not), and just generally celebrated Poser even when we were hating its limitations or problems.  Maybe things changed.  Heck, maybe it's me.  Maybe I changed, became a grouch, and now everything looks tainted by grouchiness to me.  I dunno.  Sort of looks to me like it's bigger than just me, though.  :unsure:

I begin to wonder if we've lost sight of an essential point, somewhere, and I include myself in the "we".  We're forgetting that Poser is a creative tool, a fantastic creative tool that offers a wide range of options.  Many things can be done different ways.  A user can pursue a variety of different aesthetics.  We can render (or seek to render) results which are realistic, veristic, hyper-real, surreal, abstract, comic or cartoon-styled, or any number of things... or mix and match at will.  We don't all have to do it the same way.  Poser gives us options, and I think the only time we should really start to freak out about how Poser is being or can be used is when the Poser Team starts taking away creative options.  That doesn't happen often, happily.  :laugh:  We don't all need to pursue realism, although we can.  We don't need to use Daz figures, Smith Micro figures, or any figures at all, but we can.  We don't all need to light a specific way.  We don't all need to seek the same outcomes.  Poser gives us options.

At the same time, Poser does give us plenty of limitations, and we've all spent a lot of time learning the tricks to circumvent them.  Sometimes this is an area where there is only one way to do things.  Sometimes there's no good solution.  Poser has its limits, and we collectively have a long history of applying creativity to working with them.  I think this has enhanced the creative drive of many of us, but maybe it has also played into this "one true way" idea, when a solution is discovered and we begin to apply it rigidly.  Sometimes there is only one way, but not always.

This is probably a rubbish post, and it may just sink like a stone... and maybe it should.  I'm just musing about things, not preaching.  I don't have an answer to much of anything, ultimately.  I'm not all that bright.  :laugh:  But Poser as a creative tool has allowed even a dummy like me to accomplish a thing or two, over the years.  If I have any point at all, here, I think it is: "Hey, everybody!  Let's celebrate Poser!  What an awesome, super creative tool this thing is!  Hooray!"  :woot:

(... And then tomorrow Cage comes back and his head is exploding over some new Poser bug.  :lol:)

Hear! Hear! Couldn't have said it better if I tried.

I'd sticky this if I had the power.

Well spoken Cage!

applauds

WELL SAID!

Well said Cage!!!

I'll go even one step farther. I remember a time when this Poser forum was the place to come if you used any sort of "Poser" content in any application. Vue, C4D, DS, Carrara, etc. - it didn't matter, we all learned and shared, and rarely did threads digenerate into the bashing that is the norm anymore. Also, rarely did anyone get told that their posts regarding application X weren't welcome here. I've seen this happen several times over the past 2-3 years.

Now, for those of us that use more than just Poser to do our "work", we must tread very lightly and word smith our posts very carefully to avoid flame fests. I still enjoy using Poser, DS, and Carrara, but unfortunately feel like most of the time I must keep my use of the other applications "seceret" here.

So, not only have we lost a lot of the spirit of sharing and learning about Poser, but also the sharing and learning about other applications that may lift some of the limitations imposed by Poser (and visa-versa). Instead, now so many things/posts seem to be more of a "mine is better than yours" argument where egos are involved (it doesn't seem to matter if it's software, figures, or ideas either) instead of sharing, learning, and just enjoying the hobby.

I'm sure the flames are coming, but I simply felt compelled to agree and add my 2 cents.

Oh - I also wanted to add that the mods here have got a really difficult job, but they seem to be making real progress on the negetivity and bashing.

Oh yea!!

I also agree. It's such that I spend most of my time lurking. Which brings me to a question, what is the reputation of the Rendo poser forum as compared to other sites forums? Just curious. All of the one-up-manship and other unpleasantries that I find here maybe are just the outcome of particular personalities inserting themselves as resident "experts". I imagine that this arduous task of expertise requires a lot of free time.

Anyway, Haven't visited other forums much... Hoping that others aren't as depressing as this one can be.

Cage, shut yer feckin' gob!  

Only kidding, mate.  I totally support and endorse your post.  I've always said it's daft to start getting hot under the collar over something that's used to make pictures.  I somehow can't imagine Dali kicking Picasso in the bollocks over which brushes are the best.

I can, however, understand how a person can become totally immersed in their work and be passionate about the discoveries they make.

Been this way since the great battle of Possette Vs Vicky1.

The only "Poser" moderate is the silent lurker.

Artist are ALWAYS a particularly moody group. I had a friend who worked at Pearl Paint in NYC, and there is at least one fist fight per week between two artists on some miniscule ideological difference like a shade of burnt sienna, or what order of positive, negative, positive, to final cast is better for what material.

Been on PoserPros, and half a dozen other boards that folded up shop.

I remember hand editing OBJ files exported from Lightwave in a text editor to be able to rig them with god knows what tool we were using in 1999.

Been here for 14 years. I fought in the Dr. Legume wars. ;-)

It’s summer. The economy sucks, and artists are usually very passionate, socially inept, people. “Poserites” are no different.

In few years only the people with hurt feeling will remember, and they won’t remember why.

(Unless they put links to it in their signature.) ;-)

Quote - Been this way since the great battle of Possette Vs Vicky1.

The only "Poser" moderate is the silent lurker.

Artist are ALWAYS a particularly moody group. I had a friend who worked at Pearl Paint in NYC, and there is at least one fist fight per week between two artists on some miniscule ideological difference like a shade of burnt sienna, or what order of positive, negative, positive, to final cast is better for what material.

Been on PoserPros, and half a dozen other boards that folded up shop.

I remember hand editing OBJ files exported from Lightwave in a text editor to be able to rig them with god knows what tool we were using in 1999.

Been here for 14 years. I fought in the Dr. Legume wars. ;-)

It’s summer. The economy sucks, and artists are usually very passionate, socially inept, people. “Poserites” are no different.

In few years only the people with hurt feeling will remember, and they won’t remember why.

(Unless they put links to it in their signature.) ;-)

I disagree with several of your statements but then, I'm not a moody, socially inept kinda guy.  Probably not an artist, either.  :D  The only times I've ever come close to losing me rag on here were when somebody has been having a personal go at me.  In truth, I couldn't give a tin shit what figure/app/shader anyone else uses.  

Quote - All of the one-up-manship and other unpleasantries that I find here maybe are just the outcome of particular personalities inserting themselves as resident "experts".

Ideally, we should all be able to share what we know, without being derided or ending up in an argument about other ways being better.  But, y'know.  Ideally....  :lol:

Quote - It’s summer. The economy sucks, and artists are usually very passionate, socially inept, people. “Poserites” are no different.

I'm just picking a quote from this post, for brevity.  To address the post in general, I think there has been a notable shift in the balance, over the past few years.  There have always been disagreements, but now they seem to be becoming (or have become) almost the norm.  Seasonal and economic explanations can cover part of this.  I note that post counts overall seem to be down at this forum... and all the others I frequent, not all of them Poser-related.  The combative tone seems to be intensified at all of those forums, too, except where moderators are so strict that nothing of substance can be discussed.  :sad:  There is much to what you say.  Still, I would rather take part in celebrating Poser, here specifically, than fighting.

Also, I wish someone would post some Doc Legume ponies.  Sigh.

Quote - I can, however, understand how a person can become totally immersed in their work and be passionate about the discoveries they make.

It is very easy to do, yes.  Oh my.  How can we collectively work on being passionate without becoming combative?  It is a tricky thing.

Quote - Maybe this pic could be incorporated into the many side/top/bottom banners we have here.

As a self-diagnosed asshat, I fully support this idea.  :lol:

Lower post count is directly a product of the economy. With less income for their hobby... people just avoid it.

Those were you're moderates who tended to drown out the chaos.

We're left with the die hards and the wealthy. Never a good combonation IMHO.

There's also another "feature" to comminity shrinkage.

Many people have grown beyond Poser. I'm teaching myself riggin in Bender, and I can model a complete figure in a few hours in Lightwave (But not Blender yet!)... which ends up worth the effort beause these I have no copyright issues.

Instead of trolling for cool stuff to buy. I just make whatever I can think of.

I only boot up Poser these days if I have what I need already, and I'm in a big hurry. DAZ4 lost me when it stopped automatically finding all my runtimes.

My point was... all this will pass. It seems bad now, but eventually people will find a more rewarding place to argue, and if the economy is ever allowed to improve... the customrs and their question wil come back.

:-D

Here's something new I'm working on.  Not really good yet.... it's a new way of placing a wire or rope where you want it.

Top image shows the figure in default form.   Put the figure in the right general location, pointing the right general way.  Not critical.

Then (middle image) pull the end segments where you want them, to fit into binding posts or plugs or whatever.  Pull any two other segments out to suggest the directions you want, sort of like body handles.

Then click the script, and Presto!  The whole thing Beziers into place, with all segments evenly distributed and angled.

I'm really trying for a self-locating wire that senses the positions of the plugs and finds its own way.  This is a first stage.

Oh brother, that would be extremely useful to me.  I could cheerfully forget about problems with guitar cords in my renders with something like that.  One of the things that's stopped me doing more guitar pics is the endless faffing around with cords, or having to postwork 'em in.

If you could make the cord automatically wrap over a guitar strap, in the way Strat players loop it, that would be even better.  In fact, while I'm asking for the moon, a cord that automatically found the jack on a guitar model would be immensely useful.

And yes, I do know that's pretty much impossible but I can dream.  

wow, what a great idea.  Those wires will be sooo useful.  keep us posted.

And yes, Cage I do agree with you.  poser is amazing and it is the community which really gave it a lot of it's functionality.

That rope/wire script would be a must have for sci-fi scenes. (I love cybernetic techy scenes with gazillions of cables/wires running everywhere) Amazing idea. That is a tool I would use a lot.

any computer on a desk also needs cables.  the bomb scenes with the bomb disposal squad will neeed little cables too.

and I agree about guitars.

oh and gun straps, belts, ropes to tie people up for action/drama scenes, will also all be possible with this too.

The community feels like an empty shell compared to what it once was.  The "Golden Age" of Renderosity was a time when you could say what you wanted, fight when you wanted and everything wasn't so processed into tidy little compartments.  Most of that early community has gone on to just know what they're doing, and therefore have less need for interaction with other artists.  And their social interaction is fulfilled by facebook or other Graphic Arts communities where freedom and sanity reign.  A lot of these guys have just advanced into hardcore 3d and keep Poser at the end of a ten-foot-pole as an extra-revenue generator.  Poser became the microwave to their professional, restaurant kitchen if you get my meaning.

I've been here since 99 or so, but I hit a glass ceiling with my development.  I still have questions, but I miss the carefree spirit and yes, even though there was more infighting there was also more sharing, helping and elevating of each other. 

It's almost a ghost town now or seems that way to me.

Amidst all of the sorrow and loss, does anyone see a way back? An answer?

I came here in 2006 when I bought Poser 6. It's always been pretty much the way it is now, from my experience. I guess I'm just glad for what I've been able to learn from brighter minds than my own.

All we can do is try and teach what we've learned through our experiences and hope it helps others. Sometimes it will. Sometimes it will meet opposition. The trick is to learn to let these things happen and not allow them to derail us into pointless debates and non-constructive discussions. Accept that some people have different views than we do and some are set in their ways, unwilling to hear any view but their own. Change for anything in the world has to start with changing ourselves and the way we think about/react to others.  If we do that, if we strive to lead by example, things will fall into place.

That's what I try to do every day. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Life's funny like that.

Well said in original post, Cage.

I've been guilty as well with being too easily tempted into arguing about something here and then the next day wondering why I was so worked up :P

Quote - Okay, I'll pick up the glove or handkerchief you threw down.....

 

Here's something new I'm working on.  Not really good yet.... it's a new way of placing a wire or rope where you want it.

Top image shows the figure in default form.   Put the figure in the right general location, pointing the right general way.  Not critical.

Then (middle image) pull the end segments where you want them, to fit into binding posts or plugs or whatever.  Pull any two other segments out to suggest the directions you want, sort of like body handles.

Then click the script, and Presto!  The whole thing Beziers into place, with all segments evenly distributed and angled.

I'm really trying for a self-locating wire that senses the positions of the plugs and finds its own way.  This is a first stage.

Very cool!!

Ockham, that is wonderful!  :woot:  :thumbupboth:

Quote - Amidst all of the sorrow and loss, does anyone see a way back? An answer?

The closest I could come up with to any answer was to recognize that Poser is, as I said, a creative tool which offers many different ways of doing things.  Recognizing that helps me a great deal.  I went back and read some old threads recently, and found several posts in which approaches and creative goals not in line with those advocated by a given poster were actively derided.  I see that as a big problem.  That sort of thing makes my little pinhead explode, even when the other poster is intelligent, has good ideas, and may ultimately be correct.  :lol:  We don't all need to do things the same way.  I kind of feel like a "shruggy guy" emoticon should go here, but I don't see one on offer.  Umm.

But I don't think there's anything to be done on a sort of social engineering level.  I guess SamTherapy is right.  We just need to try to be nice, rather than being asshats, those of us who care at all about such things.  :unsure:

     Shruggy guy emoticon for Cage: 

     My current project is updated TinkerBell gear.  The kit will have a dress, panty, slippers {with toe poms}, poseable wings, and a conforming glowing pixie dust aura, with an EZ-posed streamer trail.  I made two skirts (low poly and high poly), depending on how much cloth flow you want versus system resources available.  The attached pic shows a raw Silo view of the dress fitted to Roxie.

When I started there were those who would say "you gotta do this..." but there seemed to be fewer of them and they were seen as authorities so people didn't argue as much. That was back with poser 6. It seemed that people were still discovering the new features added since poser 4. Many were still using the poser 4 render engine. Few knew the clothroom. Now it seems everybody is an expert (well thinks they are) and doesn't want to be told what to do.

Something I've observed in my time here is that Poserites don't like change (hence the reason for still discovering features added in the last version probably) and if you say you've got to do something different, they baulk. I think perhaps that if we start to share an idea by sarting out with "If you want to achieve x you should try doing y." rather than "You have to do y because that's the only way to x"

Back then when people said you have to... it can across more as an excited look what I've discovered, it's so cool you just gotta try it too. Now it's coming across more as you have to be creative my way.

I saw this poem once when I was in school to be a preschool teacher. Things here have reminded me of it lately.

http://corescholar.libraries.wright.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=ejie

Quote - Shruggy guy emoticon for Cage: 

Blangit!  Where was that one hiding?  :lol:  I still can't find it.  Umm.

The Tinkerbell outfit is cool!  What is the base figure seen in the image?

Quote - Now it's coming across more as you have to be creative my way.

This can also extend to pressure to use new features.  Even the new whizwhams are just creative options, to be used or disused according to preference.  Until and unless a new option breaks an old one.  :unsure:  Having more options is a good thing.  :laugh:

I didn't want to post in this thread, lest another round of "asshattery" ensues.

But I noticed that my latest post in my "A little test" thread would actually fit in quite well here, too.

So here goes:

Well, all joking aside, what's your plan for Poser's future then ?

With all the joint fixes out there, Vicky 4 has developed into a state that's pretty much "Good enough" for the majority of users as well as content creators.

I mean, if I didn't care about realism and just wanted to use a "nice", "easy to use" figure, I just would use her myself.

Can't beat her support, can't beat her versatility.

So, just to "have fun" and "make pretty pictures", all that newfangled stuff like SSS, IDL, IBL, weightmapping etc is actually not needed.

It's mostly confusing for newbies and hobbyist users anyway, so why bother in the first place ? We had nice lights before, we had great bending figures before, we had great looking skin before. We had great renders made using Poser 4. Some you might even call "art".

So, what's the plan then ?

Having a big Party until we can commemorate the 10.000th Bikini made and the 50.000th Dial Spun Vicky "character" ?

Or should we pushing on, stealin' and lootin' and plunderin' and taking no prisoners, until one fine day we can load our figures into Poser, add some lights and scenery, and out comes a render that looks like a perfect photograph ?

Much to the chagrin of "The Industry", because it will be so easy that everybody can do it in a few minutes.

I don't want to leave people behind. I want Poser to be as easily accessible to everybody as it always was. Maybe even easier than it is now.

But that takes technical progress. And leaving those behind whose artistic ambitions are perfectly satisfied by rendering Vicky's latest mini-skirt.

Is that's why a lot of my postings cause opposition ?

Do I disturb the peace by pointing out that what we have now simply isn't good enough, yet ?

I'm sorry for that, then.

But it's hard to stop caring.

Yeah, that's pretty much all there is to say.

Are you happy how things are and want to just enjoy the status quo in eternity ?

Or do you want to push forward, accepting the occasional hair pulling and name calling and drama that naturally comes with controversy ?

Do you want peace and quiet or can you stand the excitement of progress and growth?

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

It's incredibly tiresome to constantly tread on eggshells because of some delicate soul feeling a disturbance of the Force or to explain the same plain facts over and over again while people don't even have the courtesy to actually read what you posted.

William The Bloody is right, this forum is only a hollow shell now.

If someone knows a better place to actually discuss Poser, feel free to point me that way.

"Nice & easy to use figure".

I started with Poser with Poser 1.

I still have to find the very first : "Nice & easy to use figure".

There are none. All figures, including the latest ones have tons of errors.

Over the years, at least half, if not more of my Poser hobby time, went into correcting faulty figures.

That is where the future of end user friendly is.

The very first error free figure.

     Thanks, Cage;  the base doll shown being fitted is Roxie.  The conformal aura was first made for Posette.  So probably, the pack will have outfits for Posette, Aiko 3, Roxie, and Dawn.

     Shruggy guy is in my Photobucket.  Copy him if you want him for future reference. ^^

@DeathMetalDesk

at this moment, 1330 Amsterdam time (= wakeup in NYC, bedtime in Tokio, Saturday, hence low numbers I guess)

• Rendo: 2065 artists online
• Runtime DNA: 1320 users online (135 members, 1185 guests)
• CGSociety: 900 users online (65 members, 835 guests)
• Daz3D: 200 users online (40 members, 160 guests)
• ShareCG: 40 users online (1 member)

so Rendo is doing quite well, actually / relatively.

@all

in my experience, Marketplace, Galleries and Forum are quite separate societies.

Some see Poser as a  platform for their modeling / texturing products, others see Poser as a tool for their graphics results, and some see Poser as a tool and discuss settings and features. But I hardly see much merchants or artists in the forum, and the other ways around, let alone a few exceptions (and then I don't mean the merchants advertising in the galleries). The Poser Forum is just a part of the world, it's not The World itself.

So it's right, there is not that much artistry in the forum, as -like the note on Dali and Picasso above, there is not much technical debate in the galleries as well. To me, that's a pity to some extent. And I do see where the "lack of creativity" comes from, in a forum context. But it also means to me that this creativity thing is not lacking in general, it's just residing somewhere else. At Rendo. Like Paul Francis is working miracles in his current Calendar Series, just to name one. 

Just MHO.

Quote -  

William The Bloody is right, this forum is only a hollow shell now.

 

Nobody here has ever said that, ever lol.  Thanks.

The passion that goes with progress or the oppressive thumb that goes with Political correctness and protected feelings?  Good moderation falls down the middle somewhere

"The community feels like an empty shell compared to what it once was. "

Nobody here has ever said that, ever lol.  Thanks.

????

Am I missing something here ?

Huzza! or however they say it. You speak the truth brudda. It’s sad when someone pops up with the “This is the Poser forum …” to stifle the mere mention of anything else. You also have to be careful even if you’re only discussing Poser. Say anything perceived as negative and the knives may come out, and you’re booked for insufficient loyalty. Add in the “You need to ALWAYS do this or NEVER do that and you have a pretty good start on a cult. The irony is that success is supposed to breed security. Poser is no longer down in the Roman catacombs, barely clinging to life. The knee jerk jingoism is less justified now than years ago when it seemed to be less frequent.

Without going through 15 years of threads and trying to assign an objective hostility level, you can’t objectively refute the idea that it’s always been this way, but I can certainly subjectively remember that it wasn’t. Fights, yes but usually not the degree of vitriol that we see now. Disagreements, sure, over art vs. porn, the size of Vickie’s breasts, naked faeries etc. – things that I suspect even the partisans were half joking about. I don’t remember people being accused of lying, of being shills for some company etc. and ad naseum – maybe I forget. I do hope it is a passing thing because maybe that mean’s there’s hope for Congress.

You can speculate on any number of factors, different personalities, more money involved etc. I don’t know. My own pet (probably flawed) theory is that more people are into the technical aspects of Poser these days. Maybe it’s easier to believe that you’ve found the magic number or tick box that reflects truth. In the old days, there weren’t that many switches to flip, so perhaps people were less absolutist. Beyond the artistic aspects of a Poser image, you pretty much had to look at other applications for post-work, rendering, FX etc. As Poser has become more capable, people can now be more insular, though that doesn’t really explain the hostility. People are just getting Effing old too. Lotta people here over a certain age it seems, perhaps more set in their ways, less tolerant of what they perceive as BS, or maybe that’s just me.

I’m not a professional, not really even a competent hobbyist, but I know that professionals use whatever gets the job done and they know that a tool/technique is just a tool/technique, and not the meaning of life. It seems to me that the people here who are actually working in CGI are the least cult-like. There are too many threads where one might learn something about what is available and when to use it, that devolve into two ‘authorities’ saying opposite things. Unfortunately, there are never enough pointy hats and sets of red shoes to go around and hockey games ensue.

We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
— H L Mencken

* *

Quote - "The community feels like an empty shell compared to what it once was. "

Nobody here has ever said that, ever lol.  Thanks.

????

Am I missing something here ?

"William_the_Bloody is right"

That's the part you both excised and missed.

"William_the_Bloody is right"

That's the part you both excised and missed.

DUH ! LOL !

Yeah. You're welcome.

(Sorry, not my native language, so sometimes I'm a bit slow.)

:-)

Quote -  People are just getting Effing old too. Lotta people here over a certain age it seems, perhaps more set in their ways, less tolerant of what they perceive as BS, or maybe that’s just me.

* *

That's a big part of it for sure.  I've gone, here, from being 27 to 41, from single and lots of free time to married with twin 1-yr olds and a 4 year old...from renter to homeowner, etc.

Less patience and time.

Quote - Unfortunately, there are never enough pointy hats and sets of red shoes to go around and hockey games ensue.

I'm not quite sure what it means, but somehow I'd like to see a Poser render of the image this invokes.  :laugh:

At one forum I frequent, they have a dedicated sub-forum for fights.  Maybe it's sort of like the old Off Topic forum, here at Rosity, but there the whole purpose is to have a place for the arguments to go.  Arguments can be started there at will, and portions of threads or entire discussions are sometimes moved there, if they become flamefests.  If Rosity had a place like that, we'd lose a lot of threads.  :lol:  But it probably wasn't as different as I recall, back in olden times.  Maybe I just wasn't paying attention to the controversial topics as often, back then.  :unsure:

Quote - Okay, I'll pick up the glove or handkerchief you threw down.....

 

Here's something new I'm working on.  Not really good yet.... it's a new way of placing a wire or rope where you want it.

Top image shows the figure in default form.   Put the figure in the right general location, pointing the right general way.  Not critical.

Then (middle image) pull the end segments where you want them, to fit into binding posts or plugs or whatever.  Pull any two other segments out to suggest the directions you want, sort of like body handles.

Then click the script, and Presto!  The whole thing Beziers into place, with all segments evenly distributed and angled.

I'm really trying for a self-locating wire that senses the positions of the plugs and finds its own way.  This is a first stage.

ooOooOOoOOOo that would be so useful!

goes back to lurking

Anyone want to make a nice tutorial on transferring weight maps from Blender to Poser, I promise not to argue. :-) It's something preventing me from making new figures for Poser.

Quote - Seasonal and economic explanations can cover part of this.  I note that post counts overall seem to be down at this forum... and all the others I frequent, not all of them Poser-related.  The combative tone seems to be intensified at all of those forums, too, except where moderators are so strict that nothing of substance can be discussed.

^This

I'm active in quite a few other forums, and the level of personal drama can sometimes get extraordinarily high. This place is tame in comparison to some of the gaming sites out there.

There are probably a whole lot of factors involved. The crappy economy, which even as it is slowly improving, still ruined the life/retirement savings of a great many people who will probably never recover from its effects. A new generation of people who have grown up online and operate by a somewhat different set of assumptions about the way people communicate through text. A social/political environment that encourages polarization. Digital overload, the tyranny of our devices, and the resulting stress.

In the end, even as our tolerance for each other and for the differences among us improves with every generation, everyone these days, offline and on, seems a little less patient and a little more judgmental about the small things.

Anyway, great OP, btw. applauds

This fourm will help ,might argue and fight a lot ,but that's family. You get help here.
You do not get RTFM as if that helps anyone.I've learned a lot here.

Thanks.

Quote - Anyone want to make a nice tutorial on transferring weight maps from Blender to Poser, I promise not to argue. :-) It's something preventing me from making new figures for Poser.

If Blender Collada export and/or Poser Collada import can't help bring a weighted figure into Poser from Blender, I'm guessing such an effort would require someone familiar with Python scripting for Blender and the cr2 formatting of weight maps.  I have no idea how Blender Python works, since they changed everything a while back, but I'm sure a script could still gather all the weight data and export it to a properly formatted text file.  In its simplest form, the idea might just write out the weights and require the user to insert them manually into a cr2.  This would avoid the not-insignificant complications of trying to create a new and fully-functional cr2 using Blender Python.

How do Blender weights work, nowadays?  Is there still only one map for each joint?  If so, one complication would involve converting the single-mapped format to Poser's multi-map handling.  Presumably the result would need some manual improvement in Poser, to get ideal results.  :unsure:

If Collada will cooperate in both programs, that would probably simplify things a bit.  :lol:

I certainly agree with Joe that there has to be continued progress and experiment, continued questioning of accepted practice, in order for us to get the best from what we use.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with William that the forums are a hollow shell - compared to what they were - due to the PTB being more restrictive.  I think cause and effect are the other way round.  I believe a lot of people left here because of the fighting, not because Rosity tried to stop it.  In any case, what does it say about people who go to an internet forum for the fighting?  

I also don't buy the "temperamental artist" schtick, either.  It's an overused expression to excuse childish behaviour from people who'd probably get punched in the face in real life.  I've never tolerated that kind of shit in any band I've been in, nor have I ever seen it tolerated in the workplace, no matter how creative or "artistic" the personnel.  It's lazy, clichéd and annoying.  Things that seemed cool or acceptable when I was a dumb kid are just, frankly, pathetic in adults.

Likewise, this idea of the majority of people here being socially inept in RL.  I'm sure there are several but there are a great many of us married, in a steady relationship, have children and active social lives.  We can't all be reclusive nerds.  I'd go so far as to say the vast majority of computer types I know - from casual users to real far out propeller heads - are, in the main, just regular folks.  So that idea won't wash, either.

Short version, it's not because they're artists, or computer types, it's because they're crybaby dickheads who need a fucking good slap. 

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but anyone who thinks an internet argument - or getting pissy about a fucking art application is cool -  Sure thing, have disagreements and differences of opinion but fer crissakes, stop modelling your behaviour on characters in TV soap operas.  Basically, grow the fuck up.  Quite honestly, the standard of behaviour exhibited here is, at times, on a par with my 3 year old and two year old children.  At a guess, the majority of people who frequent this forum are old enough to vote, so why not act like it?

All that said, it doesn't bother me all that much; I can always switch off and do something else.

Well-stated, Sam, IMO.  :lol:  Speaking for myself, I am not an artist, and I am a socially-inept individual... and probably also a crybaby et cetera.  :lol:  I need to learn from your example, and step away when the need arises.  If I get too wound up about something, an outburst becomes very likely.  But that is just me.  Cage is not exactly a highly effective human being.  :lol:

I think a lot of intensified emotion may link to the idea of somehow shaping what Poser is going to become.  When Poser 9 and Genesis were both coming out, there was some talk about "rescuing Poser", with what was probably some hysteria.  I myself have recently fallen into ugly panic by convincing myself that the future of Poser involved a permanently broken Materials Room.  Others may similarly be concerned that Poser is moving in some undesirable direction, with its future and/or accessibility somehow at risk.  I think it's probably better to move things forward in a more level-headed manner, which seems to be more how we've done it in the past.  I know Poser Place had a Big Mission, which helped drive some nice achievements, but it also burned some of us out.  Far better to retain some sense of perspective, IMO.  :unsure:

I've never understood emotional attachment to a piece of software.  Even my guitars, nice though they are, are just tools of the trade.

The only things I ever have any emotional attachment to are living beings.  Anything else is just stuff.  

I've been around since the Errorcode50 days, and yeah, people had arguments, but nothing like the behavior we've had the last few years. That includes all the major forums, not just here.                        

I agree with SamTherapy 100%.

I'm hoping we can avoid all this crap at the Hivewire forums, but from what I've seen in the Dawn thread, I have my doubts.

Coldrake