"Some of this might have been valuable input into the creation of the base character."

As soon as you dare to critizise a figure, even if it is well founded technical advise, the rabid supporters are over you like white on rice.

Add to that merchants who don't want any "negative publicity" tainting the monetary success of a figure, and you know why professional discussions about figure design are not possible.

After a while it simply gets old trying to discuss things with people who simply don't have the technical proficiency to understand what is discussed.

I could write a long list of things that are technically wrong with Dawn (Or most other DAZ/Poser figures for that matter), make comparison renders and explain every flaw and it's possible solution.

But what's the point ?

Those who like Dawn will keep on using her anyway and will just be offended because I'm not "positive" and "supporting" enough.

I rather spend my time creating more stuff for myself.

The Poserverse is broken anyway, so I guess people get what they deserve.

:-)

Quote - And what did you do on Sunday......
I spent a whole day talking about genitals!!!! LOL.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG

ROFL 

....while my hubby wasn't home, at that. I'm soo in trouble now!

Quote - > Quote - And what did you do on Sunday......

I spent a whole day talking about genitals!!!! LOL.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG

ROFL 

....while my hubby wasn't home, at that. I'm soo in trouble now!

I promise not to tell.

The thread was there for people to put their input into the development of Dawn.

Things were asked for and got.

Things were as ked for and may appear later.

If people didn't voice their opinions at the time, well, you can't do anything about it now.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I'll tell, I'll tell!!!! unless bribed with cookies!!!! lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

BK doesn't do cookies. She does clothes! (if memory serves)

But I like cookies!!!!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote -
Its possible that animated joint centers would aid in better bending... but at what cost...  She bends better than any commercial figure on the market as is and content creation is even easier than it was for antonia.  What effect would animated joint centers have on workflow for creators building for both versions.. or even just for poser... Sorry unless someone wants to take dawn and animate her joint centers of even one joint and demonstrate significantly better bending I call BS on this.. just nitpicking for the sake of being negative.  Needless complexity is a death knell for content support and as we have ALL seen that is really what is going to matter as far as dawns success.

As a personal opinion her shoulders look strong and I quite like them, though they are wide.  breast movement.. fair point(though I kinda thought they did at one point... my poser rig is down still so I'm going from memory).  Seems like hivewire is not huge on any sort of ladybits so we should just be happy she even has nipples!  ((J/K they are not -that- square.. just solidly PG !))

It's not needless complexity or nitpicking for the sake of being negative. Animated joint centers exist for a reason - to aid in better, more human bending, less blow-up doll plastic bending that poser has been plagued with since its inception. 

They should be built into the base cr2 and be redistributable so that clothing creators can use them. They should also be linked to any stock FBMs or partial FBMs so that they move automatically when the morphs are dialed in. This is 2013, not 2003. There is no sense in continuing to build figures based on extremely outdated poser 4 rigging technology, dressed up with ercs to make it seem more up to date than it actually is. And even erc's won't always help if the joint itself is frozen in place.

If no one's going to use the tech because its "too complicated" then why bother developing the tech, or upgrading your software to have it? 

This irritated me with Rex and Roxie as well, even moreso actually since they were designed BY THE COMPANY that created animated joint centers, but didn't bother including them in any of their figures. Makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

Too complicated is just an excuse. Poser users want more realistic figures, but then bitch and moan about the methods of acheiving that realism being too complicated. They don't like having to deal with JCMs or magnets, but still want the figure to bend like a real person. You can't have it both ways, it just doesn't work that way. Either adapt your workflow to accomodate new tech, and learn how to use it, or deal with sub-par 10 year out-dated figure rigging that requires a ton of post work so that the render doesn't look like utter crap a kindergardener threw together.

Weightmapping only does so much, and once you start morphing a figure that is weightmapped, those maps have to be altered or replaced in order to accomodate the morph. You can get away with it in subtle morphs, but taking a thin character to a muscled or obese character requires overhauling the maps, because the joints no longer look the same when manipulated, so you start getting what I refer to as pockets, or gaps, where it looks like a softball being pressed into the armpit and back of the knees, etc. Animated joint centers help to fix this problem. I will provide examples when I have them to provide.  

~Shane

If you turn on the option in your browser, there are LOTS of sites that will be more than happy to send you cookies! 

I'm hijacking my own thread... Back to Dawn and moving past the genital discussion, please.

Hmmm, I wonder how many that have said this or that is worng, could actually make something like Dawn???

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote -
Yes, well why allow discussion about a figure that can work natively in your software... That's just CRAZY!  Seriously, I find it ludicrous but sanitizing is not my call.  Its their private space and they can allow what they want to.

nodding vigorously
What is happening at DAZ in last few years is just... so meh. They kind of lost their heart. Really kind of sad, because we all lose a little.

Quote - I'll tell, I'll tell!!!! unless bribed with cookies!!!! lol.

He already knows... he got over it when I was comissioned to model a better d**k for M4 some time ago. He just sniggers and shrugs and goes, well, as long as you get paid for it....  the goofball.

Quote - After a while it simply gets old trying to discuss things with people who simply don't have the technical proficiency to understand what is discussed.

I was going to say something along these lines, but it didn't come out nearly as politely as you put it, so I took it out.

But yeah, and everything else that you said in that post too, pretty much.

~Shane

As the OP, I'm extremely disappointed in how this thread has turned out.

I had hoped it would have been a place to share first renders and talk about solving first issues. Instead, it has become extremely acrimonious, even after I have removed over a dozen or the more toxic posts.

The people who see problems with Dawn at the design level will either ignore her or do as with V4, fix them and improve her.

Those of us who are glad to see her here are going to continue to explore her regardless of what is said here.

Time for this to end.