I would be so relieved when all the gory horrible halloween images are gone from the Poser sites. I may be squeamish but I really hate this stuff. I realise that Poser/Daz images lend themselves well to the halloween and horror themes because it enables you to exploit the uncanny valley effect and not have to try to avoid it. Personally I couldn't look at some of these things long enough to even compose an image for rendering.

I did not grow up with halloween, it is not really celebrated in my country, but I thought it was fairly harmless fun stuff for kids. Apparently I underestimated the dark side. Some of the themed products have really profoundly disturbing images, and while they may be artistic they don't make me want to buy anything. I don't have a use for the horror stuff and I don't enjoy having it thrust at me. I think next year I'll stay away from the Poser sites during this season. Carved pumpkins I can handle but rotting oozing zombies, and blood-drooling vampires no.

Interesting mention of the uncanny valley.  I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's exactly the point of holidays like Halloween or Purim.  Grab death and drag it across the UV into Fantasyland where you can look at it ... and get used to the idea ...  without too much pain.

I think the US version has moved back into the UV in the last 10 years or so, with uncomfortable results.   Could be influence from increased Mexican immigration, because Dia de los Muertos is distinctly more realistic than the traditional US Halloween.

the sad thing is NanetteTredoux rendo is not interested in what you think feel or dont like. it is here to sell stuff.

if it sells then it stays. if it dont then it gos.

forums are not for you to talk to the powers that be. they are here you make you feel like you have a soft warm fuzzy place to chat about stuff you are going to buy.

the gallery is not for you to post your art work. it is a place to see stuff and want it, because. you want your art to look that good,(most times)

so please dont think of rendo as one big family home. it is a marketing ploy to part you from your money. that is why this post will be removed very soon.

because you are not allowed to post anything that is not light and fluffy here

thats just the way it is 

Artists have portrayed the fear of death and evil for centuries - I am reminded of Hieronymus Bosch now. People who want to do dark art have every right to, and I have great respect for the craftsmanship that goes into some of these items, but I need to brace myself to look at it. I certainly don't expect any website to refrain from promoting these items around halloween - RuntimeDNA does it too, all the important 3d sites do. They will sell it if people want to buy it. And people must be buying it, otherwise there won't be so much of it.

Perhaps it is my age or my upbringing, I don't know. But I don't understand why simple nudity is scrupulously hidden behind warnings, and images depicting death, horror, mutilation, decay, evil and even cannibalism are promoted - and not just on this site. Some people are offended by nudity - I understand that. I am just stating that this stuff offends me.

Nanette, I agree completely.

Computer games for kids are also becoming more violent, and the results are everywhere.

Nah, no my cup of tea either.

I am relieved that I am not totally alone in this Tony!

Quote - I am relieved that I am not totally alone in this Tony!

You're not alone at all - I think it's just grotesque.  Not to mention the hypocrisy of the bloodier, more gory the better.

While I am not upset by all the Halloween items I have little interest in Halloween itself.  Perhaps it is my age and the fact that here in the UK it is a more modern 'Imported' idea and one import I wish we had left behind.  It was imported by the marketing men who saw a way to have sales in the lull between summer holidays and Christmas. For many here in the UK it is just an excuse to do damage.  If the sale of Halloween items means more are staying in and doing Poser rather then out slashing tyres I guess I can live with it, particularly when I avoid the 3D sites for at least ten days before.

Easy solution, boys and girls: Don't buy the stuff.

Things do seem to be getting more extreme, I've just wiped my deviantart  account (seven years worth of work) because some images on there are just getting too much. Looking forward to xmas and lots of pictures of elfs and santa :)

This preoccupation with the gory and images of death is scary. Nihlism seems to dominate the media. How has ou generation failed so badely that out chikdren  worship nihlism.

Perhaps a Happy, Happy part of the forum, is required.

In the end it's just pixels on the screen, the real world is so much worse.

For those worried by it, please go to any hospice, see the faces of those who are losing their parents, children etc. before their eyes and then tell me you have problems. Be thankful for what you have.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

You're not alone..while I've done a vampire perhaps in my day...the whole gory goth style just ain't my thing. LOL Not that I mind anyone doing it...it's just not me. I just ignore it ;)

Laurie

Quote - This preoccupation with the gory and images of death is scary. Nihlism seems to dominate the media. How has ou generation failed so badely that out chikdren  worship nihlism.

Danse Macarbe by Saint-Seans. 1874... and that wasn't a new concept, it was based on older supersitions. set, on the 31st of october... it's not "our generation at all"

History just carries on...

*puts the Danse back on again.... I love this peice of music... * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyknBTm_YyM

(link to a performance on Youtube. Safe)

I recall medieval art and it's dark, dark themes (darker than now in a lot of ways)...but how can ya blame them, surrounded by black death and other forums of "death at any second" LOL. Very preoccupied with death and the devil and hell..maybe it's human nature ;).

Laurie

Nanette, you bring up some interesting points.

I guess it could be said, you should be glad you don't live in the US. I don't know what it's like in other countries in recent times, but the horror/macabre scene is only growing in the US with no sign of slowing down anytime soon. 

Zombies are huge cash cows. I can't even count how many zombie films and video games have come along in the last 10 years, most inspired by the 1960s b-movies that somehow exploded in popularity in the 90s.

The Walking Dead - a tv series about a small group of people trying to survive a zombie apocalypse - is the #1 show on TV right now, and has been since it's premiere in 2010. It just began its 4th season. It's success has resulted in a spin-off series to begin in 2015.

The Supernatural (demon hunters) is another top rated show that just began it's 9th season. I think it's ratings are somewhere around #4. It also has a spin-off that will begin next year.

American Horror Story just began it's 3rd season (starring the fabulous Jessica Lang). Each season is a different story. First was a haunted house, 2nd was about an asylum with some deranged mad scientist theme and crazy beast he's building (i didn't actually watch that season so I'm not sure of the details), now the 3rd is about two rival clans of witches in New Orleans. (Funny thing about AHS, it's from the same creators of Glee - that gawd-awful highschool musical that is also all the rage - or at least it was).

The list just keeps growing and all the top networks are trying their best to compete for the #1 position in horror and suspense. 

True Blood, Dracula, Sleepy Hollow, Vampire Diaries, The Following, Being Human, several others - (tho Being Human isn't really horror, it's not all that violent, I'd say it's somewhere in the neighborhood of dark comedy and mild suspense), too many to remember and list them all here. All varied in their ranking on the gore meter, but all share a common theme of darkness. Even Once Upon A Time - reworkings of the classic Grims fairy tales - has a distinctly dark and brooding atmosphere. (Many of the original writings were actually very brutal and nothing like what most would consider appropriate for kids today. It was Disney that turned them into kids stories).

The point is, horror is huge among the younger crowds who grew up on movies like Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, etc. And the majority of primetime entertainment tends to cater to the 20-50 crowds, since that's the majority of their audience. 

Personally I enjoy a good horror story. The more twisted it is, and the more boundaries it pushes, the more I like it, as long as the story is actually good and the violence serves a purpose and isn't just there for shock value (which is the case for most). But that's not all I enjoy.

I think it all represents, on some subliminal level, how people perceive their own lives in today's society. Especially the zombies. The Leave it to Beaver and the Waltons mentality is long dead. I wouldn't be surprised if someone came along and turned those families into zombie flicks too at some point. After all, isn't Cujo Stephen King's interpretation of Lassie?

~Shane

you know Being Human was made by the BBC? I don't know much about the US version that came later...

And these same people probably watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel.

Or even worse, took their daughters to see the Twilight films due to the sparkling vampires and the "Oh I love him, but he doesn't know I exist" rubbish.

The horror genre has been around for a loooong time, go back to Nosferatu (1922) and the Cabinet of Dr. Calligari (1920).

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Grimm's Fairy Tales are some of the goriest, darkest stories I know Shane. LOL I guess told to children to scare them from going to places where a more realistic, but much more horrific fate awaited them at that point in history.

Laurie

I like them, not the sanitised versions, but the real ones.

And those were written for the children of that time. No way would you get anything like that through the publishes theses days for kids of that age.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Things do seem to be getting more extreme, I've just wiped my deviantart  account (seven years worth of work) because some images on there are just getting too much. Looking forward to xmas and lots of pictures of elfs and santa :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsuWPQ5ZGX4

HERE YOU GO! :)

Nicholas Was - by Neil Gaiman

~Shane

Quote - Grimm's Fairy Tales are some of the goriest, darkest stories I know Shane. LOL

Laurie

yup forget the sanitised versions that came later. the originals are barbaric... in Snow White, the Queen is forced to wear red hot iron shoes and to dance until she drops dead.

and you think the current trends are disturbing? we aint' got Nothing on what the stories used to be!

Yep, I don't see Disney doing the real version of Cinderella with the ugly sisters cutting their toes off so that they can fit the slipper. Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - you know Being Human was made by the BBC? I don't know much about the US version that came later...

Yes, definitely. I love the US version. Watched all 3 seasons in less than a week. Can't wait for it's 4th to start in Jan.

Haven't seen the UK version but the stories have diverged significantly from what I can tell. 

I have a secret crush on Meaghan Rath. She's just too damned cute for her own good.

~Shane

I'm glad it's over too and I completely agree with you. There is really nothing innocent or fun about halloween at all, it's a completely dark time, but most people don't even realise what it's related to at all. For them it's just pure fun. Our world is growing more and more dark and evil is more and more glorified, it's a real shame.

I do find Rendo being very unconsiderate when it comes to these matters. When me and a number of other vendors asked if the some of the provoking promotions Rendo runs at times, the staff simply suggested we should close out accounts, close out stores and leave, end of discussion. Shame, one day I may do so, not now don't want to let down my customers yet, but it's getting harder to justify selling and being here.

All those bad products, bad for people!!!

Whateveer you do, don't switch on the news and see what real horrors man can unleash against it's fellow beings.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

By the way, Samhain to a lot of us is for rememberance for those that have gone beofre us.

Nothing to do with collecting candy and trick or treating.

By the way, those that are looking forward to Christmas, remeber this is a time of suicides, drunken attacks on family members, heart attacks through gluttoney etc.

So, they should ban all CHristmas things from the store as well.

Yep, an extreme, but it does show the silly way that people try and get things banned due to what they thing othes should do.

I have a friend who hates CHristmas as his mother died just before Christmas day.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - you know Being Human was made by the BBC? I don't know much about the US version that came later...

We are are not talking BBC but the ESU (English Speakmg Union). Nihilsm. (the Worship of Death and mutilation) in England and the the US, haas given in to that which prmotes it and whiche is detroying us. Stop it or by children's worsrship of death we will all die, horribly....

sorry, nihilism is NOT the worship of death...lol

From the Merriam Webster dictionary:

ni·hil·ism noun ˈnī-(h)ə-ˌli-zəm, ˈnē-: the belief that traditional morals, ideas, beliefs, etc., have no worth or value

: the belief that a society's political and social institutions are so bad that they should be destroyed

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - you know Being Human was made by the BBC? I don't know much about the US version that came later...

We are are not talking BBC but the ESU (English Speakmg Union). Nihilsm. (the Worship of Death and mutilation) in England and the the US, haas given in to that which prmotes it and whiche is detroying us. Stop it or by children's worsrship of death we will all die, horribly....

*erm... what? I was talking about who made what. what you are talking about has no bearing on what you quoted. please read what is said and my signature before you quote me again or use the ignore funtion on me. *

that is all I have to say on this matter, to you at this time. thank you.

* *

The game resident evil was very successful.
companies tent to try n copy what was successful.

excludingresident evil movies .
most horror movie are cheep to make like reality tv shows .
reality tv shows scare me more then zombies .

We all (or at least most of us) love a good scare. A fun scare of couse, not a "I almost got ran over by a truck" scare. But fun stuff like a ride on a roller coaster or a good book or movie that gets the heart pumping. We like the adrenaline. The problem come in that we hear the same stuff over and over we get de-sensitized to it and so we need bigger, scarier things. Our kids start out where we left off so it gets worse and worse. My parents talked about how scary Psycho was and I heard for years how people were afraid to take showers after watching it. When I was in my twenties I finally saw it and All I could think was "That's it? That's the horrible movie? You're kidding" But I have grown up with the Halloween series, and Nightmare on Elm Street and the like and even though I never sat through an entire movie for any of them, it still numbed me.

Perhaps though the visual arts are just catching up with written stuff. Edgar Allen Poe and Lovecraft wouldn't make too pretty of a picture.

Not everything has to be gory - especially when it comes to making 3d things, theres so many character and genres in horror movies and halloween that can be played around with. Particularly when it comes to all the cliches and putting them in a differerent context. For example chainsaw welding teddybears, no one can take that seriously. Which is the point, halloween is about fun. It's shambling out the house to freak the soliatry treaters we had. Being served in a shop by a bored staff member dressed up as the undead and not being able to resist the tempation to make a depressed zombie smile :)

Quote - I would be so relieved when all the gory horrible halloween images are gone from the Poser sites. I may be squeamish but I really hate this stuff. I realise that Poser/Daz images lend themselves well to the halloween and horror themes because it enables you to exploit the uncanny valley effect and not have to try to avoid it. Personally I couldn't look at some of these things long enough to even compose an image for rendering.

I did not grow up with halloween, it is not really celebrated in my country, but I thought it was fairly harmless fun stuff for kids. Apparently I underestimated the dark side. Some of the themed products have really profoundly disturbing images, and while they may be artistic they don't make me want to buy anything. I don't have a use for the horror stuff and I don't enjoy having it thrust at me. I think next year I'll stay away from the Poser sites during this season. Carved pumpkins I can handle but rotting oozing zombies, and blood-drooling vampires no.

 

“The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown”  H.P. Lovecraft

I don't really understand the whole idea that everything must be bowdlerized because somebody, somewhere might become offended.

It may not be your cup of tea, but it speaks to others.  Not all bad art needs to be variations of Elvis on black velvet, dogs playing poker, or NVIATWAS - now those are truly distasteful.

Halloween in and of itself doesn't bother me, although personally I don't celebrate it. And while i really don't understand the fascination with zombies or the recent portrayal of vampires as sexy, my personal distaste for the holiday comes from people who dress like idjits named "Miley", for example.

Mr Sparky, I agree with you - it can be done at a humorous level, and then it is healthy. I can also relate to the idea of using such images and movies to bring out subconscious fears and allay them. But I feel the 3d industry has crossed a line somewhere. I don't know exactly where the line is, because I am averting my eyes. Wallowing in gore, pus and rotten slime can't be good for anybody's state of mind. When the images go to this extreme it is not very different from pornography except that the subject is not sex, but death, disease and violence.

Honouring those who have gone before us is great - but let's honour their spirit and our memories of them, let's not perve over their rotten bodies. Such horror images are not respectful of the departed.

In my country we have a spate of "muthi murders" every now and then, where people (often children) are killed and dismembered and the body parts used for "traditional medicine". Yes, this stuff is real.

I wonder - if somebody were to make gory 3d images of dead and rotting elephants killed by poachers, or rhinos bleeding to death, their starving calves slowly dying next to their dead parents, would that be all right? Especially if the message behind these images would not be to stop the senseless killing, but to sell more 3d content? I bet there would be an outcry. Why is it OK to have such images of humans? Or don't we see zombies as human?

We do not live in the middle ages any more. These days, when people die, we cover them with a sheet and close their eyes.

I would be against banning anything mainly on the basis it just drives it underground and makes it more attractive to certain people.  I did also follow the advice offered and did not buy any of of the Halloween stuff from any 3D web site.

I am however left with a couple of thoughts, firstly, just because you can sell something does not necessarily mean you should.  Secondly, I have trouble equating some of the items images being allowed in the gallery while nudity in any form is either banned or must carry a warning.  Clearly some of the Halloween themes are upseting to some but not all but surely this is equally true for nudity.  One is banned the other is not. 

I am not attacking anyones tastes or views but I fear that Halloween get worse each year and my personal veiw is that zomies in certain forms may have the potential to corrupt the innocent the sight of a naked women.

Zombie kids and vampire kids really disturb me, particularly because the idea of vampires has become so sexualised. And I agree with hornet3d, just because you can sell something, doesn't mean you should.

Quote -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsuWPQ5ZGX4

HERE YOU GO! :)

Nicholas Was - by Neil Gaiman

~Shane

Lol - kind of thinking of something lighter but that will do.

I brought up Miley at the VMAs for a reason. She made a spectacle of herself at the VMAs and while she received some criticism she wasn't condemned.  She simply pushed the envelope of creative artistry. Now everyone wants to dress as Miley this halloween. On the other hand, let someone dress up as the Marlboro man, and people will want to tar and feather him.

I don't think I have ever heard of anyone going off and commiting murder due to seeing a 3D render.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I brought up Miley at the VMAs for a reason. She made a spectacle of herself at the VMAs and while she received some criticism she wasn't condemned.  She simply pushed the envelope of creative artistry. Now everyone wants to dress as Miley this halloween. On the other hand, let someone dress up as the Marlboro man, and people will want to tar and feather him.

The whole spectacle of Miley is a perfect example of what Hollywood does to its puppets. 

Just a couple years ago - 2010 or 2011 i think it was - Miley was promoting abstinence and no sex before marriage and everyone applauded her for it. (Google it). Obviously everyone except her managers. I suspect there was some talking-to done with her behind the scenes and probably some warnings of a career at mcdonalds if she didn't change her act. So she did. 

It may not have gone that way exactly but to me it's the only logical explanation. 

~Shane

Jusr wondering if someone will model a suit of cotton wool, looks like there would be quite a few customers for it.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Jusr wondering if someone will model a suit of cotton wool, looks like there would be quite a few customers for it.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Should be very popular with all those that just can't stand to see a naked body.

If we took out everything that upsets people in the Gallery, then there would be very little in there.

The same goes for the store.

An example, cars kill more people over a year tham "zombies", so perhaps all renders of cars should be banned and they shouldn't sell models of cars in the store due to it.

What about people who have no religious beliefs, they may get upset about the upcoming Christmas items or renders. Does the store ban those items and stop renders in the gallery?

If it not against the sites TOS then we have to live with what appears in the store or gallery. Those that get upset by certain things have a choice to stay with a site or move on to another one.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Didn't say they should be banned, quite the opposite.  Just stated that, in my view, the warnings in the galleries were not logical.  Then again, at my age, maybe I am the one who has lost his logic.

The same people who complain about zombie pics tend to wear objects of torture and death around their necks on chains.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Easy solution, boys and girls: Don't buy the stuff.

Not a problem, didn't buy ANY of it.

The problem is that the entire front page of Renderosity is covered in blood and gore.  You can't avoid it if you tried.

But, there's an easy solution to that as well - just avoid the Renderosity store and gallery.

Which I did.

Quote - > Quote - Easy solution, boys and girls: Don't buy the stuff.

Not a problem, didn't buy ANY of it.

The problem is that the entire front page of Renderosity is covered in blood and gore.  You can't avoid it if you tried.

But, there's an easy solution to that as well - just avoid the Renderosity store and gallery.

Which I did.

agreed. ladies and gentlemen. if you don't like whats on a TV channel, you turn over or switch off. you don't go to see movies you won't like, you don't goto shows on subjects you hate.

take responsibilty and be your OWN censor. don't like it? don't look.

ok I may get yelled at for saying this. "but why should I....." well, why should I be affected by you? but I'll be my own censor about what I want to see and hear......

Totally agree, don't go looking into a Halloween Gallery and then complain about it if you don't like the subject.

I don't get modern art, a squiggle and a square equals New York??? But what I don't do is go and look in modern art galleries and post complaints about them.

I let people get on with what they like.

Don't like Halloween threads, then don't look in them.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Totally agree, don't go looking into a Halloween Gallery and then complain about it if you don't like the subject.

I don't get modern art, a squiggle and a square equals New York??? But what I don't do is go and look in modern art galleries and post complaints about them.

I let people get on with what they like.

Don't like Halloween threads, then don't look in them.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

If you base everything on that then there is no censorship what so ever.  Images of children being abused, no problem, just don't look. 

While I agree in principle in what you have said there has to a judgement made at some point be it moral, religeous, legal or whatever.