I know the artists have been getting a lot of negative feedback over the way they package things, but I've got one more thing to throw out there:

PLEASE!

Make the FACE morph of a character the thing that appears at the top of the list inside the character folder. Showing me the "reset" icon when I'm browsing my characters really doesn't help me much. Placing the FACE morph there lets me see who the character is.

What is REALLY NOT HELPFUL is making the cute little icons with the character's name and placing that at the top of the list. I've already got the name right there under the folder in the library. Again, it is the FACE that is going to herlp me locate the character I'm looking for.

Also, placing everything in neat little subfolders marked morph, regular shaders and SSS Shaders is a nice gesture... but the "morph" folder breaks Poser library's ability to show us the character. Please put those items in the main folder for your character and the shaders in those subfolders. THAT would be helpful and make lots of sense.

I would not have said anything, except that I just spent 3 hours cleaning up this ungodly mess in my M4 runtime. Dear Lord... I can hardly wait to get to V4 where I have about double the number of characters!!!!

$.02

Somewhere, someone is making the exact opposite argument.

Quote - Somewhere, someone is making the exact opposite argument.

How about Poser & DAZ fix there broke file systems ?
who would argue against that ?

If you want to change vendor behavior, do it in a review of the product - take off stars and say why you are deleting them.  Because otherwise, you are just howling in the wind.  You can tell a vendor, you just can't tell them much.

Could be worse.  I have a number of male characters that have as the 1st morph mat the character's throbbing python of love.

Quote - Could be worse.  I have a number of male characters that have as the 1st morph mat the character's throbbing python of love.

ROFL.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons for my post. Same here.

But you are right. I'll see about doing that. Thanks for a good idea!

Quote - > Quote - Could be worse.  I have a number of male characters that have as the 1st morph mat the character's throbbing python of love.

ROFL.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons for my post. Same here.

But you are right. I'll see about doing that. Thanks for a good idea!

I suggest you only take off stars when the product doesn't work as advertised, or if textures are blurred or look bad. 

As there isn't really a standard way to set up characters in some stores, taking off stars simply because you don't like the way they are organized 1) Generally gets ignored by vendors because you aren't speaking to the actual quality of the product and most rational customers realize that and 2) makes you look bad because you really aren't talking about the quality of the product, just a personal preference and everyone's preference is different. 

This is why I think most people really don't pay attention to the stars as the reasoning for it is really subjective and doesn't speak to the actual quality of the product... and that's what people care about and using the rating system in this manner actually abuses it.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Could be worse.  I have a number of male characters that have as the 1st morph mat the character's throbbing python of love.

ROFL.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons for my post. Same here.

But you are right. I'll see about doing that. Thanks for a good idea!

I suggest you only take off stars when the product doesn't work as advertised, or if textures are blurred or look bad. 

As there isn't really a standard way to set up characters in some stores, taking off stars simply because you don't like the way they are organized 1) Generally gets ignored by vendors because you aren't speaking to the actual quality of the product and most rational customers realize that and 2) makes you look bad because you really aren't talking about the quality of the product, just a personal preference and everyone's preference is different. 

This is why I think most people really don't pay attention to the stars as the reasoning for it is really subjective and doesn't speak to the actual quality of the product... and that's what people care about and using the rating system in this manner actually abuses it.

If no one's paying attention then it doesn't really matter whether he takes off stars or not.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Could be worse.  I have a number of male characters that have as the 1st morph mat the character's throbbing python of love.

ROFL.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons for my post. Same here.

But you are right. I'll see about doing that. Thanks for a good idea!

I suggest you only take off stars when the product doesn't work as advertised, or if textures are blurred or look bad. 

As there isn't really a standard way to set up characters in some stores, taking off stars simply because you don't like the way they are organized 1) Generally gets ignored by vendors because you aren't speaking to the actual quality of the product and most rational customers realize that and 2) makes you look bad because you really aren't talking about the quality of the product, just a personal preference and everyone's preference is different. 

This is why I think most people really don't pay attention to the stars as the reasoning for it is really subjective and doesn't speak to the actual quality of the product... and that's what people care about and using the rating system in this manner actually abuses it.

If no one's paying attention then it doesn't really matter whether he takes off stars or not.

But then it wouldn't be a surprise then why rating systems on these sites aren't valuable tools for customers.

If you have an issue with the way things are set up in products, I would think the best place to bring it is to the store itself. They're pretty much the ones that could affect the most change in how things are done than just removing stars from products, vendor by vendor. They could create the standards by which all vendors would have to set up their products in order to be accepted into the store.

The real frustration for me is seeing a product in the store and either not getting enough variety in the thumbs  highlighting the complete options included in the product or seeing renders of the product with stuff not in the package and no explanation what is and what isn't thre. I have purchased many products here and at RDNA for instance that have very few product images detailing the options, for example a new character with nice new textures and say a plethora of tattoo options and custom morphs with no body shots showing the body textures or morphs but many portrait images showing the makeup options. Fine for those doing portraits but not a good marketing tool/methodology to sell a comlete package.

Or what about the hair products shown with colors variations in every thumb from the same angle touting there are movement morphs or styling morphs but never showing those options from a variety of angles.

Money is harder to come by for me anywa, and I hate buying something because of what is visualized or hoping the shaping and morphing optuons offr what I reall need and getting it and being disappointed. I will rarely buy another product from that artist again.

At DAZ that is not a problem. I simply ask for my money back. But here where refnds or credits are unheard of...I am SOL.

THa's just my $.02    :)

File naming and folder/file organisation is part of the quality.

What I personally hate to see is the vendors name in the products files;
It is about the figure, the clothing, NOT about you, the vendor.

Put your vendors name in the "never to be read "readme file.

Quote - File naming and folder/file organisation is part of the quality.

What I personally hate to see is the vendors name in the products files;
It is about the figure, the clothing, NOT about you, the vendor.

Put your vendors name in the "never to be read "readme file.

I don't know about that. Sometimes, the vendor's name works as a brand name, like "Xurge", "Aerysoul" or "Out of Touch". I'm not really looking to brand my stuff, but i do have two foloers with my name on it. One's the Texture files and Material files.  I do that because of my own experiences.  I've had a texture file not load and I had no clue where to look for it. So all my texture files and material files go in the "EClark Clothing" file, as a collection folder.

Quote - File naming and folder/file organisation is part of the quality.

Not necessarily. It all comes down to what the guidelines for the product which comes from the store. If the store allows it, then it really comes down to personal preference as the naming conventions are those that pass QA. So if you want it changed it's better to go to the store and see if their guidelines can accomdate what you want.

Quote - What I personally hate to see is the vendors name in the products files;
It is about the figure, the clothing, NOT about you, the vendor.

I've heard that called the 'ego' folder and I also hate it.  While I may have great respect for the vendor and love their stuff, I be damned if I can remember who made what.

Quote - > Quote - What I personally hate to see is the vendors name in the products files;

It is about the figure, the clothing, NOT about you, the vendor.

I've heard that called the 'ego' folder and I also hate it.  While I may have great respect for the vendor and love their stuff, I be damned if I can remember who made what.

Obviously you can't and won't please everyone, but I like the idea of an ego folder so much, I've created a few on my own. When I have a vendor who I like enough to buy several sets of his stuff like  Nerd, or Stonemason, then I'll gather all of their stuff into one folder. That way, I'll always know where to find it. I also find the ego folder pretty good for keeping up with freebies I've downloaded over the years and can't remember who made what.  Comes in pretty handy  if a file corrupts on you and you need to find it again. Heck even DAZ has an ego folder. All of my DAZ figures are in folders marked DAZ Animals, DAZ People, DAZ Characters, DAZ Enviornment... well you get the picture.

Quote - Obviously you can't and won't please everyone, but I like the idea of an ego folder so much, I've created a few on my own.

What do you for items created by multiple vendors?  ;)

Quote - > Quote - Obviously you can't and won't please everyone, but I like the idea of an ego folder so much, I've created a few on my own.

What do you for items created by multiple vendors?  ;)

Depends. If already have something from one of the vendors I'll probably put it in the folder with his other stuff.

They're not ego folders. They're called "controlled namespaces".

Imagine the grief you'd have if every vendor who made, for example, an evening gown called it "Evening Gown". Upon loading two different vendor's products, you'd end up trashing the one you installed first, in favor of the one you installed last.

By creating an eponymous folder above the product, such collisions are completely avoided. (Assuming no two vendors have the same name, which is pretty likely.)

Quote - They're not ego folders. They're called "controlled namespaces".

Imagine the grief you'd have if every vendor who made, for example, an evening gown called it "Evening Gown". Upon loading two different vendor's products, you'd end up trashing the one you installed first, in favor of the one you installed last.

By creating an eponymous folder above the product, such collisions are completely avoided. (Assuming no two vendors have the same name, which is pretty likely.)

Which is great if you don't actually have very much in the way of content.  Some of us have 1st world problems, i.e. runtime collections approaching half a terrabyte or more. - for us, ego folders are one (of the many) banes of our existence.  From something I wrote last year:

Allow me to show you what I, as the customer, have to deal with every single time I fire up Poser........

I decide to make a render.  Load Figure (it can be any figure)  Figure needs an outfit.

Go to the character folder to add clothing - Am I looking at clothing?  No, I am looking at 100+ vendor names (aka ego folders).  Now I have to open EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM until I find the outfit I am looking for.  If I am lucky it is just 1 ego folder, if I am not, I have to drill down yet another level - for every single vendor.

Do I like the default material?  If I don't, I need to change it.  Now the real fun begins.

Did the vendor follow Poser standards and make .mc6 files and put them in the Materials folder?

If yes, then I go to the material room - I am once again confronted by 100+ vendor names. No problem, after all I know the vendor name from rooting around in the character folder, right?

Not always.  Because I may have also bought a 3rd party add-on pack.  Now I have to root around in 100+ vendor names individually, until I find what I am looking for.  And yes, I do have to open every single one of them, because most vendors that make add on packs don't include the name of the base product, and then there are the vendors that use differing folder names between character and material and/or pose folder.

If no, I have to do the exact same thing in the Pose folder.

If I am not for sure, guess what?  I get to do it in BOTH folders, because vendors can't follow the established, 8+ year standard.

Rinse & repeat for EVERY SINGLE ITEM IN THE SCENE.

Why not use the Poser search function, I hear you say?  Try it sometime.  Because of how many vendors name things, the search function is worthless.

An easier solution is naming a product Evening Gown by .  The vendor gets their ego stroked & the customer can actually find something.

a thought crossed my mind.

Before PC's If I wanted to hear a song
I would go to my records look for
Band : The Who
Record : Who's next
Song : Baba O'riley

If I want to hear a certain song on my MP3
I'll go
Band : Armonight
CD : Tales From The Heart
Song : When You See Me Cry

just a thought.

Quote - > Quote - They're not ego folders. They're called "controlled namespaces".

Imagine the grief you'd have if every vendor who made, for example, an evening gown called it "Evening Gown". Upon loading two different vendor's products, you'd end up trashing the one you installed first, in favor of the one you installed last.

By creating an eponymous folder above the product, such collisions are completely avoided. (Assuming no two vendors have the same name, which is pretty likely.)

Which is great if you don't actually have very much in the way of content.  Some of us have 1st world problems, i.e. runtime collections approaching half a terrabyte or more. - for us, ego folders are one (of the many) banes of our existence.  From something I wrote last year:

 

An easier solution is naming a product Evening Gown by .  The vendor gets their ego stroked & the customer can actually find something.

I have zero interest in letting vendors organize my runtime for me. But then I pretty much manually unzip my downloads instead auto zipping them to where they're supposed to go. DAZ is pretty much the only exception to that rule because of their installers. But it sounds like you, Bryan needs to break down and reorganize your library. If you need to break your library up into categories like Swimsuits, Mini skirts, Lingerie and Evening Gowns. Then the vendor list for each category will be less wieldy.

Quote -

I have zero interest in letting vendors organize my runtime for me. But then I pretty much manually unzip my downloads instead auto zipping them to where they're supposed to go. DAZ is pretty much the only exception to that rule because of their installers. But it sounds like you, Bryan needs to break down and reorganize your library. If you need to break your library up into categories like Swimsuits, Mini skirts, Lingerie and Evening Gowns. Then the vendor list for each category will be less wieldy.

Gee, that never once occured to me over the past 10 years.

Like this perhaps?

Casual Dresses

Casual Pants

Casual Shirts

Clubwear

Fantasy

Fetish

Jewellry

Lingerie

Period Clothing Ancient

Period Clothing Medieval

Period Clothing Renaissance

Period Clothing 18 & 19th Century

Shoes

Swimwear

Uniforms

Unsorted - thanks DAZ

Doesn't matter if I am looking at 20 items or 400 items, the ego folder forces the end user to open each folder individually if they own more than 1 item per vendor.  Like I said, 1st world problems.

To add to the expression of frustrations:

No OBJ file should have a generic name. Add your initials at the front.

dress.obj  is just lazy,  DkDrdress.obj (for a vendor DarkDream) would keep it safe from being over wriiten and you can even Park it in Geometries:Clothing with no need to add your own folder there.

If you do insist on your own vanity folders Stick with it for all your products. For example, If you insist on placing morphs in !vendor instead of Morphs do not use !vendorA for the next one.

Now for the good news, to repeat what has been said before:

If you have PP2014, these problems are potentially moot.

Everything can be put in a single folder.

Use relative paths.

The cr2 pp2 hr2 and .obj and .pmd  in the main folder.

• If you are in Hair and the figure is .cr2, you must double click instead of using the check box at the bottom. So you cannot replace, just add.  To replace, you would need to delete the existing figure first yourself.

The texures in a single subfolder (also a good place for templates) .   The Material poses in another subfolder. 

PhilC PZ3editor has a batch function that can edit paths for all files in a folder, so even 100 pose files can be path edited at one go.

One warning, if the folder has a .pmd file, park it somewhere else before batch editing the folder. It futzes up the .pmd contents.

Advantages:  all hair - irrespective of type can be kept together.  Same with clothing - prop or figure - all together. 

A character can have its .pz2, single morph spawned .pmd (if you wish to be efficient) textures, and material poses in a single folder. As an aside - how many teeth, sclera, eye color,  textures are needed? These universal textures can be in the main Runtime and shaired by all characters.

The texture addon products can be folded in with the original textures, and material poses added to the material folder, no more wandering arround looking for them.

Since everything is in a single folder and the paths are internal to that folder, the folder can be ported to amother Runtime easily. Have storage Runtimes and move what is in use to an active Runtime for scene assembly and rendering.

If people are concerned about vendor names appearing in libraries and not being able to find the product they want, why don't they try using the search function? Honestly, I rarely use the rest of the library now (apart from favourites, where I have stuff like reset morphs and poses); I just search for the product I want to load and load it. Sometimes, I will say, vendors name the item differently in the runtime to how they do elsewhere, and sometimes, what's even worse, they name the figure (Polkadot Bikini Top/Bottom, for example) differently to its MAT poses ('PDB Mat', for example) and THAT annoys me.

Other than that, I don't think I've found a vendor who packages their products up that badly... occasionally expressions will appear in the poses library, but then I use search anyway and have learned to search poses AND expressions when looking for expressions, just as I search figures and props for other things. I've never 'cleaned up' my runtime and I don't intend to.

Actually, saying that, there is one thing that really gives me nightmares... !!This!! THAT is ego! To put exclamations like that on your stuff so it appears at the top of the library, as if you're the one who's stuff everyone's going to want to use before anyone else's... grumble, mutter, grumble, spit There's only one folder in each library I want with exclamations and that's mine, with my things in and nobody else's! :P

All that said, peace love and polygons! :)

If we could easily
Rename anything we wanted to anything we wanted.
and
Put anything we wanted in any folder we wanted.

like any other CGI app ...

You can put anything you want in any folder you want.

You can reasily rename anything you want.

I don't understand.

You can do exactly that by going into your runtime and renaming files and folders if you wish... like any other PC files! ;)

Now I'm confused so I can put the mesh ,maps of my candle any where I want for the Pro 14 version ?
I thought certain things had to go in certain files.
Problem is I've not made anything for Poser since Poser 5.
So I can't remember what needs to go where.

Quote - You can do exactly that by going into your runtime and renaming files and folders if you wish... like any other PC files! ;)

If you do this woun't links get broke ?

I've taken a test map from my desktop and slapped it onto V4 via the material room before now... if that's not taking a file from anywhere and doing what you like with it, I don't know what it is. ;) Also, you can select a different runtime in the library too; I have my runtime on a separate hard drive and I link to it in the library. No matter how many new PC's I get through, my runtime stays on the same drive and is linked to just the same. The only time that will ever change is when it outgrows the drive and I need to transfer it all to a bigger one... which might be in the not too distant future. :P

Quote - I've taken a test map from my desktop and slapped it onto V4 via the material room before now... if that's not taking a file from anywhere and doing what you like with it, I don't know what it is. ;) Also, you can select a different runtime in the library too; I have my runtime on a separate hard drive and I link to it in the library. No matter how many new PC's I get through, my runtime stays on the same drive and is linked to just the same. The only time that will ever change is when it outgrows the drive and I need to transfer it all to a bigger one... which might be in the not too distant future. :P

ok ya got ya desktop texture on vicky.
but if ya rename ya desktop texture.

don't you need to tell Poser,Vicky ? or woun't the link be broke ?

& don't some files Think morphs but not sure do bad in the wrong folders ?

not .jpg but I thought some of the .exstentions had to be in certain folders ?

.jpg .obj any of the .??? are called exstentions ?

You can use any name and any location for a texture - etc

The Poser file just must know where it is.  You do that by editing the path in the cr2, pz2, hr2,...  It can be done using a simple text editor, but a dedicated Poser file editor makes this much easier to do.

If you put the texture in the folder with the cr2/pp2/... or a sub folder in there, the path need only be the texture name itself ( if directly in the same folder ) or the sub folder name and text name if there,

A cr2/hr2/pz2/pp2/... can be in Hair or Prop or Pose or Figure or Camera or Face - and it will still execute.  You just must double click it.  The specificity of a Poser Library section is that the launch checks at the bottom of the Library only work if the file extension matches its section ( hr2 in Hair - cr2 in Figure ).

If your textures/ obj/ material poses/ pmd   are only used by one cr2/pp2/hr2, why not keep them all in the same folder ?  Just make sure the path is correct.

I didn't know the check marks at bottom don't work for cross-category items. I didn't code it that way.

Anyway I almost never use those. I double click or drag and drop.

The file types mentioned (images, geometry) that live outside the library are just that - they are not in the library.

I am explicitly asking the readers here to understand that the library (what you see in the Library UI) is a subset of what is in your runtime. Moving or renaming things that are in the library is generally safe with no additional effort. Moving things found outside the library (such as things in geometries or textures) is asking for trouble but it is possible. If you can follow detailed instructions, it's not hard. If you can't, then don't even try.

But drag and drop within the Poser library UI, or with the Windows Explorer or Mac Finder, for files and folder within the *** LIBRARY *** is legit.