I'm told by a poser forum admin that I need to take down part of my signature. It has a commercial link to a different site (a link to my items at CP). According to him the TOS does not allow that at all.

I've read through the TOS and cannot find that anywhere at all. What he qoutes me is this section: [quote]Commercial images are welcome in the galleries with following restrictions: 1. Posting of commercial images/links is limited to active vendors and products in the Renderosity Marketplace. 2: Commercial language is limited to text in the Notes area and may not appear on the actual image. [/quote]

That is not talking about forum posts or signatures at all. According to him signatures are the same as forum posts, I'm OK with that, but this sections is about neither. It clearly is about images not about posts. One can post commercial images with 2 restrictions, that's what it's about, plain and simple.

Of course you can take that out of context all you want, but the TOS still does not forbid me to have my signature as I do have it. OK, he may not like it and he may misinterpret the TOS, that still doesn't change the fact that this pertains to images only, not to forum posts or signatures. Or are mods suddenly allowed to once again make up their own rules? It happens a lot in the poser forums, mods tend to make up rules as they go along and people are treated quite differently in that section as they are elsewhere on the forums. There are a number of rules there mods enforce that are not in the TOS, perhaps this is one those?

So please, be so kind and make sure my signature stays in tact as it is, unless you choose to not abide by your own TOS.

I was told once that Rendo doesn't police signatures, but maybe that's changed :/.

Laurie

I never heard that one before.

Well, they do now, but it seems for some reason I'm singled out and all others are left alone. The staff contacted me and stated that their decision is final.

As usual, Rendo enforces rules that don't exist at all and only do it on whom they wish to do so. Their TOS is so clear about this, it has nothing to do with forum posts and signatures at all. Shame that they wish to not abide to their own TOS, but make up rules as they go along.

Time to move on, I don't like being picked on for no reason and especially not knowing when many others do it and are simply left aone.

Well, they do now, but it seems for some reason I'm singled out and all others are left alone. The staff contacted me and stated that their decision is final. I'll have to change my signature or they will do it for me :(  I've had that signature for ages. This place is getting more and more unfriendly and hostile as time goes by, shame.

If the TOS would not allow me to do this, I would understand it, but to bend the TOS in such a way is beyond me, why even do it? What's the reason and even the point of this? What does Rendo even gain by doing this? Well, I guess they don't even need a reason, Rendo has become rather good annoying members with silly rules (written and unwritten) and changes over the years. It's no wonder vendors are leaving to seek out friendlier places to sell their content and more and more members leave without a place. No wonder most forum sections that used to be buzzing with action are dead now. OK, enough said, I'll shut up, do what you want to do Rendo, but please do not give TOS rules again that make no sense and do not even apply to the issue at all. Perhaps you may want to change your TOS to make things more clear and let it say what you really mean.

I'm still wonder why me and why turn a blind eye to all the others? Or has Rendo started another witch hunt and I'm the first in line? I'm really getting tired of the this uptight (and unfair) behaviour around here!

I'm sorry you feel you are being singled out, but you are not. The TOS states "Posting of commercial images/links is limited to active vendors and products in the Renderosity Marketplace.", this includes links. I'm unsure how much clearer the TOS can be for you. Linking to "stores" may only be done by Renderosity vendors. Linking to other marketplaces are not allowed. Please think of it this way, would you go into a store and tape a flyer for another store on its door? In most cases no one would.

Also, no we do not police sigs, but if it is brought to our attention we will contact the member about the links.

Hope this helps clear things up.

But that's not what the TOS says at all..... you're leaving something very important out! It starts with ""Commercial images are welcome in the galleries with following restrictions: 1.... and 2..... " How much clearer do you want it? The line you quote belongs to that, you're now single out a restriction and make it apply to something the TOS states. You cannot post an image with a commercial link, that has nothing to do with forum posts at all. The restriction you quote pertains to the galleries not to the forums at all. Sorry, but you are still completely wrong.

Besides are you now going to take action against everyone? No, you're not, since there are lot's of vendors allowed to still to have their commercial off-site links. So yes, I'm still singled out and you know it. Many vendors have had these links in the signature for many years and you never took action against them, you still allow them to have these up to this moment.

We can go back an forth all we want, but as long as you are taking the TOS out of context and bend it this will go nowhere, so I'm done with this.

I'm unsure what commerical images have to do with a forum post. But either way you want to see it the quoted part of my message explains links. I'm sorry you do not like how it is stated but it is what we follow.

If you have any further problems, please feel free to contact me personally about this matter.

Thanks

Could I get a direct link to where it says Forum images.. Like aeilkema this is all I can find. .

Commercial images are welcome in the galleries with following restrictions:

1. Posting of commercial images/links is limited to active vendors and products in the Renderosity Marketplace.

2: Commercial language is limited to text in the Notes area and may not appear on the actual image.

Kimberly, commercial images have everything to do with it. It seems like you are somehow not applying the rules of grammar correctly. You cannot seperate point 1 and 2 from the whole commercial image deal, that would be grammatically (and even legally) incorrect.

The colon is signifcant in this paragraph. It means that everything after the colon belongs and refers to the sentence or phrase before the colon. You cannot seperate those. It's basic grammar. What you do is take everything after the colon as something standing on it's own, but you simply cannot do that. Every has learned that at school. Point 1 you mention is not a seperate entity, but belongs to the phrase before the colon, according to the rules of grammar.

In other words commercial images have everything to do it and forums and signatures have not! Sorry to day so, but a mod should at least know how to apply rules of basic grammar to be able to interpret the TOS correctly. You still have no right according to the TOS to remove any part of my signature.

I do find this whole ordeal very shocking and it makes me wonder how many people have been reprimanded or worse, even banned, because mods cannot read the TOS correctly and do not know their grammar as they should. Shocking!

No one had the right to edit my signature, I want to get into contact with the supervisor of the person who did so, how do I get into contact with that person?

I'm sorry you feel you are being singled out, but you are not. The TOS states "Posting of commercial images/links is limited to active vendors and products in the Renderosity Marketplace.", this includes links. I'm unsure how much clearer the TOS can be for you. Linking to "stores" may only be done by Renderosity vendors. Linking to other marketplaces are not allowed. Please think of it this way, would you go into a store and tape a flyer for another store on its door? In most cases no one would.
In his partial defense (though I'm guessing he's guilty of off-site MP linking), the parts I'm seeing quoted by you and everyone else in this thread is very vague and unclear, and up until your post that I'm quoting that you could only post links to products if you are a vendor-- while being a non-vendor and posting a link to your favorite rendo product or merchant would be against the rules-- which the ToU itself doesn't so much as hint at. 

If those gallery rules apply to all parts of this site, then the ToU really should be changed to reflect that, IMO.  Meh, I'm actually rather used to posting on message baords with unwritten rules, but none of those are commercial sites-- the latter are much more professional and shouldn't allow unwritten or poorly written rules to creep up.

If English isn't the TC's first language, I can easily see how he would have difficulty understanding that rule about off-site MP linking, because that part is written in a way that it would be very difficult to translate either in one's head or via language software.

The proper way to read the relevant section of the TOS is to respect its hierarchical nature.

"SITE AREAS" - is the heading.

"No posting Unacceptable Images or Writing Themes" - is the rule (Orange Box).

All statements contained in the pink box (including the blue and green) define the rule.

Within the blue box the green text refers to, and defines, conditions relating to "Commercial Images" IN THE GALLERIES **ONLY **as the galleries have specifically been singled out from the other site areas.

The way that this should be written is the blue box removed from the pink box and swapped with the red box, which specifies unaccpetable thumbnail images.

The words "in the galleries" should be removed from the blue box if the intention is to forbid commercial images/links for non Renderosity Marketplace products from ALL Renderosity site areas.

Interpreting the TOS in their current form does not forbid commercial images/links in signatures because "in the galleries" is the defining statement.

Tried to edit and add to my last post but missed the time window.

The alternate interpretation is that the statement "Commercial Images are welcome in the galleries" implies that commercial images are NOT welcome in site areas OTHER than the galleries.  If that is the case then following the reverse hierarchy an image in a signature that is commercial in nature (Pink Box), is deemed an unacceptable image by the rule (Orange Box), throughout all site areas (Heading).

Thanks :) I know I'm in my right, but Rendo seems to have misapplied this for so long, they think they're right :)

The poser forum mods have claimed for years that you cannot post commercial links, but the cannot back that up by the TOS. So they made their own rule and unwritten one, but by now they believe it's a written one. Various forum sections apply their own unwritten rules, it's confusing and I've seen people banned because of these unwritten rules, totaly unfair and unjust..... and Rendo keeps on wondering why this place is slowly dying and being abandoned.

Rendo staff seem to use the ToS in ways that suit their needs, I too have had them use the ToS in such a way on myself

I have no personal interest in this case, not being a vendor, not using any links in signature or elsewhere, so I could just keep quiet and turn away.

But honestly spoken, the critics are right. The paragraph in the current ToS can only be understood to be applicable to Galleries, not to forum posts or other places. If it was not meant this way, then the ToS is a mess here.

As I said, personally I don't care about this specific issue myself. But I do care about people who cannot find the powers to say 'oops, sorry, we reallize the ToS is a bit messed up in this context, we are going to sort it out and update the ToS, because this is how we want it to be handled.' In my 58 years of lifespan I have always deeply respected people who can admit their mistakes, be it in military, at university, as commercial pilot in aviation, and other environments I have experienced. But I never trusted anybody who stubbornly insists on something wrong which is so obvious.

I've sent an email to the Rendo staff, but no reply at all. Seems like they rather ignore it and hope it goes away, then to admit they're wrong. I don't think I've ever seen Rendo admit they're wrong. They are very quickly to tell you that you've done something wrong, but when they make a mistake it's just ignored.

After talking further with the team we have decided, after receieving more intake from other members, that we will allow off site linking in sigs. So from now on aeikema, your link will be fine.

Wow, I am impressed, respect.

Now I'm wondering (not asking for anything, just for clarification) how to go about Artists Page, is it allowed too to link to ones external homepage?

Quote - After talking further with the team we have decided, after receieving more intake from other members, that we will allow off site linking in sigs. So from now on aeikema, your link will be fine.

Thank you. I appreciate that you all looked into it some more and have decided to allow it. I've added my link again :)

Quote - Wow, I am impressed, respect.

Now I'm wondering (not asking for anything, just for clarification) how to go about Artists Page, is it allowed too to link to ones external homepage?

You are referring to another store? Or personal website?

Thanks!