Hi everybody !

I wasn't very active on Renderosity since 2006, but when I look now on activity here, it seems very bleak when compared with the old good times.  Number of posts in Vue forum has dropped almost 10x, number of published Vue images is almost 4x lower. 

Any idea why it happens ?

Are people moving towards other 3D software, or just abandoning 3D, or maybe they shift their activite elsewhere? (ex. other forums )

Do you plan to buy Vue 13 or TPF 2 ?

Hello!

I don't think the Renderosity forum is representative for the Vue community. I started here but have mostly moved on to other communities. The most active place is the Vue Galleries group on Facebook and there are several other Vue groups (and 3D plant groups). That's where I mostly hang out these days. I just drop in here every once in a while to see if anything interesting came up or to answer some questions.

I am on maintenance for both Vue Infinite and TPF and will defintely get the next versions. 

So, I think the vue community is alive and well (we have lots of good discussions and exchanges of ideas/tips etc on the Fb group), it is the Renderosity forums that are on life support (not just the Vue one).

Ciao

TD

Personally, as one of the longest time members of the Vue community, I think the decline in activity here is directly related to E-On's pricing and marketing strategies. What started out as a hobby program you could get into for less than $100 has turned into a mainstay of movie studios and high end pros. Those types of customers have little interest in being part of an on-line community, while many of the older customers stopped upgrading and lost interest because they could no longer afford it. Certainly, if I were just starting out in 3D rendering, I would never consider Vue because of the price. Also, when Vue became popular, people in the community always talked about how easy it was to learn and use. They no longer talk about that. It's now a powerful program that is intimidating and expensive.

Quote - It's now a powerful program that is intimidating and expensive.

I agree with you. I found Vue4 on a magazine as a freebie on the disk. Upgraded to Vue5 and then Vue6 and then was given a last chance upgrade to Vue11. 

Vue is a program I would love to learn how to use properly to produce some good backgrounds for the images I do in Poser. But I'm having problems navigating around it, getting it to produce something decent, because mainly needed a better computer. Each time Vue upgraded, the gap between computer and edition became. But I kept upgrading because I didn't want to lose out on a program that I could really use...if only....

If only I could find decent tutorials to help me produce something, to help me gain more confidence that I can make something with Vue. Without the price tags, why does it seem all tutorials for this program has a price tag on it. The higher price the program is, it seems the less chances there are for people to be generous with their knowledge and help others who are in the shoes they used be in. Ask questions and it's crickets I must not have used the secret code word in my post....as the Vue community is a secret society, that just answers why help costs and you don't get answers to questions because of not being a season ticket holder. 

Maybe I'm not looking in the right direction. I'll keep plugging away at Vue, but unless I get a good deal, V11 is probably going to be my last Vue edition.

Hello Nosiferret!

Not sure where you looked but there are hundreds of free Vue tutorials out there. Two of the best sources are:

http://www.geekatplay.com/vue-tutorials.php

and

http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/tutorials/htm/index.htm

You will enough find enough beginner and advanced stuff there to keep you busy for months...

Regardsing questions: I always try to answer if I have a good idea about the solution, but the Vue forum here has very low traffic. I only check in once or twice a week. I answer questions at the DAZ forums or if you are using Facebook, the Vue Galleries group is the most active Vue community I know about.

Ciao

TD

Thanks for the links :)

I used to enjoy this forum a lot. I wish it were more active.  If I recall a few years ago, a whole bunch of people got annoyed with something, can't remember what, and left. From then on it just sort of drifted. I would like to see it become active again. I have used Vue for over 12 years now.

It isn't eroding at all..... it has already eroded. There is no Vue community anymore, not here, not at Cornucopia3D, E-Onsoftware or any other forum. The last thing I heard is that there is a facebook group that is quite active, but I'm not sure how many people are in it. Seems invite only and a bit secluded.

I know what happened here, Rendo just chased everyone away by there way too hostile and controlling attitude at times.

Also Vue isn't what it used to be anymore. While they still have artist/hobby version, they don't promote them anymore. They focus on the pro users, like studios and such. They basically left the artist and amateur user in the cold. Vue has become hard to use, they support is pretty bad, unless you own the high en version. Vue has become very expensive to buy and especially to upgrade. While they have low end versions, they're not worth buying since they're way to restricted. To do anything decent you need Studio or Complete and those are expensive. On top of that all the mediocre updates they release each year.

With the focus on pro users, the community slowly died. Artist and hobby users are the ones active in the forums, but they're not in the numbers they used to be. Vue has become a very expensive hobby, so people stop buying. Most pro's have a certain attitude. They don't want to mingle, they don't want to help, they don't want to share their knowledge. They rather start closed and secluded facebook groups.

I was part of one in the past and they behaved so elitist that I left a few weeks later. I guess that's what happened and that is also what happened in the past here. A couple of users started to act very elitist and basically destroyed the community..... I remember that very well and I'm kind of surprised that some of them show up again these days.

Quote - It isn't eroding at all..... it has already eroded. There is no Vue community anymore, not here, not at Cornucopia3D, E-Onsoftware or any other forum. The last thing I heard is that there is a facebook group that is quite active, but I'm not sure how many people are in it. Seems invite only and a bit secluded.

The "Vue Galleries" Facebook group is indeed very active. There is nothing "Elite" about it. We have many Vue beginners as well as "Professionals". The only reason it got switched to "closed group" was the attack of spambots and some concerns of members that preferred not to have the group posts appear in their other feeds. I would be happy to send an invite to anyone here that would like to participate. Just drop me a message here at Rendo.

The group currently has 1367 members (of course only a subset of those is posting regularly). There are many questions, tips, and artwork posted every day. Of course we also have occasionally the usual ever recurring forum discussions (What is art?, is 3D art?, ...  Among the members are also the CEO of e-on software and several other e-on/cornucopia3D people. At least 5 of the 2014 Environment competition finalists are regulars in the group. There is also a quite large repository of files, tutorials, and other helpful things. 

Anyway, the Vue community on Renderosity might be dead, but overall it is alive and more active than it has ever been here or at any other form I have been to in the past 12 years.

Ciao

TD

Oh, and there are actully several other Vue groups on Fb focussing on other languages (German and French for example) or specific topics (SciFi or Plant design).

I wasn't part of the "Vue Galleries" Facebook group, it was a different one, not my kind of group. I'll drop you a pm.

think all art ocmmunities have eroded a bit, because the damn economic crpa has ruined so many lives

I used to be an active member on Renderosity in general and on the vue forum in particular.

I agree with the reaons mentioned above for the mass exodus of artists from this forum:

1. Admin is very rigid and hostile to any non-conformist idea. One of the main points of contention was their attitude to nudes. (not only in the vue comunity)

2. E-ons attitude to users qustions/bug reports was pathetic - users were supposed to put up with what they dished out without expectation of advertised features actually working. Unfortunately, they had many fan-boys (no doubt with perks from e-on) on this forum which hampered any attempt to discuss bugs/solutions freely. This resulted in an unpleasant atmosphere.

3. The overall look and features on renderosity are old fashioned and stagnating. Even after several years of absence no significant changes are obvious.

4. I am now focusing on traditional art rather than CG, in part becuase I cant afford to keep upgrading Vue. It's a shame becuase I enjoyed using VUE while I could and would have liked to continue with digital art alongside the traditional

Anyhow, When I left, the moderators of this forum, kept getting upset everytime there was a lively debate (most of which included me). Well, I hope they are happy now, it's more 'peacefull' here than in a graveyard...

PS if anyone is interested in my art now you're welcome to my pages on www.redbubble.com/people/artpearl or artpearl.deviantart.com

I still have quite a few Vue customers, but all dealing direct. Its quiet here, and its quiet on the e-on forums. FB seems to be where people are.

As a hobbyist, I had to stop at Vue 9 Complete. Personal circumstances, combined with the eon's marketing strategy saw to that. I still like using Vue, but doubt I'll ever be able to upgrade again.

Quote - It's now a powerful program that is intimidating and expensive.

I agree with you. I found Vue4 on a magazine as a freebie on the disk. Upgraded to Vue5 and then Vue6 and then was given a last chance upgrade to Vue11. 

Vue is a program I would love to learn how to use properly to produce some good backgrounds for the images I do in Poser. But I'm having problems navigating around it, getting it to produce something decent, because mainly needed a better computer. Each time Vue upgraded, the gap between computer and edition became. But I kept upgrading because I didn't want to lose out on a program that I could really use...if only....

If only I could find decent tutorials to help me produce something, to help me gain more confidence that I can make something with Vue. Without the price tags, why does it seem all tutorials for this program has a price tag on it. The higher price the program is, it seems the less chances there are for people to be generous with their knowledge and help others who are in the shoes they used be in. Ask questions and it's crickets I must not have used the secret code word in my post....as the Vue community is a secret society, that just answers why help costs and you don't get answers to questions because of not being a season ticket holder. 

Maybe I'm not looking in the right direction. I'll keep plugging away at Vue, but unless I get a good deal, V11 is probably going to be my last Vue edition.

I love Vue but some of the features are now way too complicated. I've watched most of the Geekatplay tutorials on the function editior and I still do not grasp it.  It's more like a technical function than a simple art tool. Too many of the advanced features in Vue are now way too technical. My work around is to do a base render and re-work it in Photoshop and ArtRage... Vue is meant to be a hobby and I do not wish to spend time watching tutorials on a function editor that is way too complicated.... Most of the time I find the Geekatplay tutorials very helpful, but the function editor tutorials are not.... Perhaps if Gary Miller were to do them...

Hi everybody !

I wasn't very active on Renderosity since 2006, but when I look now on activity here, it seems very bleak when compared with the old good times.  Number of posts in Vue forum has dropped almost 10x, number of published Vue images is almost 4x lower. 

Any idea why it happens ?

Are people moving towards other 3D software, or just abandoning 3D, or maybe they shift their activite elsewhere? (ex. other forums )

Do you plan to buy Vue 13 or TPF 2 ?

E-on used to sell their software as it became available. Times have changed, and E-on now basically subscribes their software now. Most software companies do this with their customers (treat them like a paid subscription fee). That's why most software forums are drying up. Those that stayed with their favorite program either kept up with the software fees, or were able to make the software pay for itself. The others (most people), have old versions of the software and can't contribute much in forums because their software is not compatible.

and this year they didn't even deliver to the subscribers of TPF , all the "maintenance" got you was a few days earlier access to beta patches and access to a near dead forum. Kept Vue up to date since '99 but I'll make do with the current versions. 

Is there an hobbyists alternative to Vue other than Bryce? And what is the current version of Bryce like?

Terragen, I haven't tried it, but I've seen people create nice things with it. Bryce is nice, but it's nowhere close to Vue. Bryce is a bit outdated, while it has nice features, it shows it age. To master Bryce you need a lot of skills and effort, I've only see few people do outstanding stuff with Bryce.

Bryce has a funky GUI still. I'm glad Vue didn't go in that direction. Vue has its own GUI issues though.

GeoControl is no longer cheap, last I heard. Terragen 3 probably is not either. There are cheap versions of Vue. But let's face it. They are cheap and pretty much worthless if you fell for their advertizing.

I stopped at VUE10Infinite when they try to force me to update to ver. 11 in order to be able to import weight mapped Poser figures.

Long rendertimes by not satisfying results, expensive updates, same repeating annoying issues such as cameras shooting somewhere in space and a very slow UI spoiled all fun. Those are issues I allready knew from my very first Vue d'esprit 4 edition and they are still there up to my latest Vue Infinite 2014 PLE.

So I just gave up. I can do nature-stills in any other 3d-app. Nature animations are a complete waste of time to me. Sure with VUE I can have realistic trees that move nicley with a breeze, but in order to have nice animation with a nice athmosphere, I will have a rendertime of at least 2h per frame. Antialiasing might still look cr... ahm ... below expectations. So how long am I suppose to render without having a renderfarm with at least ten computers.

No, e-on you are so out of the game for me.

I give a try to xStream 9, but it mainly crashed Maya without producing any acceptable results.

After wasting 8 months I gave up.

Have you ever succeeded to create any good looking animations with xStream  ?

Quote: I give a try to xStream 9

xStream 9, that is old. No wonder you have problems trying to integrate.

Quote: Do you plan to buy Vue 13 or TPF 2 ?

No. Too expensive, both of them. I'm not even buying TPF1, way too expensive and the license is just plain ridiculous. TPF plants are still way too slow and memory consuming in Vue. Due to the license TPF is very limited in it's use and highly overpriced. The software itself is really cool, until you read the license. If you want to sell a plant you have to do it through C3D? What were they thinking when they wrote that? I know you've made a few TDF plants and were involved in helping in the development, but it seems like you have stopped releasing plants already. You're gone very quite, what happened? Did you only stop by to start this thread and then dissapear again :)

Quote: The most active place is the Vue Galleries group on Facebook

I'm part of that now and to be honest, it's less active then the galleries here, always the same people showing off their images and a lot of what is posted there, is posted here or at C3D as well. Conversation wise, it's just as dead as this place. For me the FB groups didn't add anything at all, there just as dead as all the other places.

Hmm.... the quote command doesn't seem to work anymore, so I edited this post.

     Well, add me in to those who are getting a working version of Vue and then sticking to it.  I simply can no longer justify the cost of the constant money drain for maintenance and upgrades.  Given the decline of economies worldwide, more people are going to be pushed into this same position.

     Since my workstation Galadriel failed and I don't know if we'll be able to get her back online, I may need to see about transferring her Vue 11.5 Infinite license to Urania, my kitchen diner booth workstation, and then update it to 12.6 (aka 2014.6 build 12501193), so that it matches the license for the upstairs workstation Cameron.

      I do a lot of network rendering, so I'd like to get away from having two RenderCows (an 11.5 and a 12.6) on each drone.

     The licensing restrictions on what I could do with plants made in Plant Factory killed any initial attraction.  I can't make freebies?  I can only sell via Cornucopia?  Meh - no thanks.

It's not eroding.  See all the answers I got for my spline problem just as an example.

Love esther

PS I did mostly sort it all out in the end using online vue tutorials and trial and error.

Nope, it's not eroding at all.... it's dead :) Esther, I did see the thread when you posted it and if I had known the answer to it, I would have replied. My Vue knowledge is still limited when it comes to complex question beyond the basics. There was another thread started after yours and that one oddly was answered very quickly, by someone who hardly ever answers in this forum. I guess it was because it had nothing to do with Vue, although the person answering is quite good with Vue.

What gets me the most in this thread is that Robert starts it and then never comes back again, no participation. He clearly shows why this forum is dead..... those with knowledge of Vue never participate and share their knowledge. Makes me wonder what happened though.... one moment he's all over the C3D store with his products, very active in their forums, posting images here again and next moment he's gone as suddenly as he re-appeared.

Probably because of all the negativity.

I am being serious, when all you see and hear are people complaining and whining it wears you down, you ask yourself why am I bothering. Why do I waste my time when all people do is act like entitled assholes who don't even understand the concepts of please and thank you.

Case in point - this is the first time in ages I've ventured back into the Renderosity forums and I'm confronted with a veritable ocean of negative crap.

It'll probably be another six months before I forget why I eschewed these forums and have another look only to be reminded once again.

What did you expect with a topic like this? Happy clappy feedback? The topic asks for a reason and in this case it's not a positive answer. You could have known this would get some negative feedback, because it's a negative situation. I agree, there are a lof of negative threads on the Rendo forums, but it's not crap at all. There's a reason behind the negativity and Rendo itself is a huge part of reason, if not the main reason, due to the way it handles certain situations.

Let's also not forget that a lot of you Vue old timers (including the OP) are the cause of all the negativity in this forum section. I've been around long enough to remember how you guys simply blew up this forum and lot's ran away after that and the community started to erode. Then Rendo by their policy only started to add to the erosion and the picture is complete. Not a pretty story, but what did you expect? No one of you old guys is adding anything positive to this forum section at all, Most of you just come in, create threads like these, post negative comments like you do and then run off again. While there are plenty of threads you all could have addidt some helpful and positive feedback, but you choose not to do so.

That way you keep the negativity once started alive and you are not part of the solution, Instead of sharing a wealth of knowledge and information, all you guys do is complain. Leaving us with the eroded forum you've once created.

What did you expect with a topic like this? Happy clappy feedback? The topic asks for a reason and in this case it's not a positive answer. You could have known this would get some negative feedback, because it's a negative situation. I agree, there are a lof of negative threads on the Rendo forums, but it's not crap at all. There's a reason behind the negativity and Rendo itself is a huge part of reason, if not the main reason, due to the way it handles certain situations.

Let's also not forget that a lot of you Vue old timers (including the OP) are the cause of all the negativity in this forum section. I've been around long enough to remember how you guys simply blew up this forum and lot's ran away after that and the community started to erode. Then Rendo by their policy only started to add to the erosion and the picture is complete. Not a pretty story, but what did you expect? No one of you old guys is adding anything positive to this forum section at all, Most of you just come in, create threads like these, post negative comments like you do and then run off again. While there are plenty of threads you all could have addidt some helpful and positive feedback, but you choose not to do so.

That way you keep the negativity once started alive and you are not part of the solution, Instead of sharing a wealth of knowledge and information, all you guys do is complain. Leaving us with the eroded forum you've once left behind. Help us build it up again, instead of eroding it even more.