Is there any way to achieve this effect in poser?

I'm trying to make a kid looking behind a snow globe and half his face is magnified. I know it has something to do with the fresnel- refraction value.

All of my efforts have ended up with an upside down reflection of other objects in the scene.

Any help would be appreciated :)

correct refraction for this may work in PP2014 SR 5.1 or later.  however, you gotta use BB's transmitting/refracting shader due to shadow prob.

I can't seem to find that shader. Will that help with the effect?

Here's what I have so far.

Is there any magnifying glass shader around? Perhaps I can Frankenstein it a bit.

Miss Nancy refers to a solution that is not a problem you're aware of (yet).

Let's back up.

First question - which Poser version?

While I wait, let me educate. With a biconvex lens (or bowl) any object further than the lens (or bowl) focal length will be upside down. That's physics.

We can actually make it not do that, but it will no longer be an accurate glass+water simulation.

For most purposes, we can generally say that the focal length is twice the radius of curvature. For something that is nearly a sphere, the distance is just one radius.

So - if you have a 10 inch glass globe, everything more than 20 inches from its center is upside down.

So now that we understand the rule we can do one of two things to change the outcome.

1. Move the kid's face right next to the bowl. Now he's inside the focal length.

2. Move the focal length farther out, by entering an unnaturally low Index of Refraction.

Exactly what value to use will depend on what version of Poser you have. Recent corrections to the refraction in Poser mean that shaders behave differently now vs. previously.

Is there any way to achieve this effect in poser?

I'm trying to make a kid looking behind a snow globe and half his face is magnified. I know it has something to do with the fresnel- refraction value.

All of my efforts have ended up with an upside down reflection of other objects in the scene.

Any help would be appreciated :)

IIRC, the upside down reflection is due to a scientific principle I can't exactly remember the name of right now. Refraction? Anyway, the light is passing through two lenses which would be both sides of the bowl whichturns it upside down. Why you don't notice this effect in nature is because  of a third lens, located on the back of your eye, which flips everything right side up again. It's not doing it in your render because that actual light never reaches your eye. So all you see is an upside down picture.

Oops, crossposted with BB. I bow to the master.

Sorry about the delay, I didn't get a notice.

It truly is weird that we don't really notice this in real life. I remember some vague reference of it from school but that's about it on my knowledge on the subject.

I have the latest update of poser and I'm using your environment sphere BB and a point light to illuminate the scene.

I don't really care about the accuracy of the physics it's a toony scene anyway. The sphere doesn't have any water in it, it will contain a different scene.

The kids face is touching the sphere in the picture and the plant on the reflection is located on the far right of the room.

Is there any way to achieve this effect in poser?

I'm trying to make a kid looking behind a snow globe and half his face is magnified. I know it has something to do with the fresnel- refraction value.

All of my efforts have ended up with an upside down reflection of other objects in the scene.

Any help would be appreciated :)

IIRC, the upside down reflection is due to a scientific principle I can't exactly remember the name of right now. Refraction? Anyway, the light is passing through two lenses which would be both sides of the bowl whichturns it upside down. Why you don't notice this effect in nature is because  of a third lens, located on the back of your eye, which flips everything right side up again. It's not doing it in your render because that actual light never reaches your eye. So all you see is an upside down picture.

This is incorrect - total fantasy. (No insult intended) Please don't react to this. I am preparing materials to explain and demonstrate what is happening and what to do about it.

Being upside down is real - nothing to do with fake renderer vs. real eye.

Need some time though as this requires lots of test renders, in multiple versions of Poser, and I'm currently actually working.

I have the latest update of poser

Sorry - please state the exact version you have. I have far too much experience dealing with people who think they have the latest version and then we find (after days of confusion) that they do not.

I have Poser Pro 2014 version 10.0.5.28820. 

I made a scene in which the IOR is set extremely high. This is how Poser used to render when you set the IOR to the correct value. It would render as if you set it way higher, because the exit angle calculation was incorrect in the older versions of Poser.

The IOR here is 3, which is higher than diamond - nothing in common experience bends light this hard.

Take note of the pink pawn in the back.

Did you notice the black fish? That's the problem Miss Nancy was talking about. No light gets inside the sphere!

Poser is stupid - it believes that refraction does not transmit light to other objects - only to the camera.

To solve the interior lighting problem and let the fish get some light, I turn of Casts Shadows on the sphere.

We'll come back to the shadow problem, but for some situations this is all we need to do.

Is there any way to achieve this effect in poser?

I'm trying to make a kid looking behind a snow globe and half his face is magnified. I know it has something to do with the fresnel- refraction value.

All of my efforts have ended up with an upside down reflection of other objects in the scene.

Any help would be appreciated :)

IIRC, the upside down reflection is due to a scientific principle I can't exactly remember the name of right now. Refraction? Anyway, the light is passing through two lenses which would be both sides of the bowl whichturns it upside down. Why you don't notice this effect in nature is because  of a third lens, located on the back of your eye, which flips everything right side up again. It's not doing it in your render because that actual light never reaches your eye. So all you see is an upside down picture.

This is incorrect - total fantasy. (No insult intended) Please don't react to this. I am preparing materials to explain and demonstrate what is happening and what to do about it.

Being upside down is real - nothing to do with fake renderer vs. real eye.

Need some time though as this requires lots of test renders, in multiple versions of Poser, and I'm currently actually working.

Well, I admit, I don't know if that's the principle that's operating in Poser, but  total fantasy???, it's the principle behind how a camera obscura works.

Damn forum ruined this post.

Right, that is a big problem, essentially since most of my scene is inside the globe. If there's no way around it there's no point in trying to make the face happen anyway.

I have the 10.0.5.28295 version

Here's a render with the plant inside the sphere, just black. Please tell me you have a solution to this :(

Here I revised the shader to make it modern and set correctly for glass. (Would need some complicated discussion about water in a thin glass bowl. Not going to do that now.)

This is how PP 2014 renders the glass. This is good glass.

Here is the shader. You must set it up EXACTLY. In particular, make sure the Checkboxes match exactly! No Normals_Forward anywhere. This is because the modern Refract correctly deals with entering and exiting light differently. 

For those of you who've used glass before, it's not wildly different than you've seen before. I'm just emphasizing that noobs should not change things without knowing what matters and what doesn't. I know what matters and what doesn't, so sometimes you'll see small changes from other posting - they probably don't matter. When in doubt, ask.

Now - in the Refract node (only!) change the Index of Refraction to 1.015

It will look like this.

Now I move the boy much closer to the glass. Before he was even with the yellow pawn.

With the boy close, I can go back up a bit higher on the IOR. Here it is 1.1 and the background stuff is once again upside down, while the boy is not.

You choose what value you want.

IOR = 1 means no bending at all - like a super thin bubble.

IOR = 1.01 or thereabouts is like thin glass - very little bend

IOR = 1.1 is not like anything realistic but if it does what you want, then use it.

Still have IOR=1.1 but I centered the boy.

Yes! It worked really great. The only problem is those hexagons on my sphere, but it's probably the models fault. I can use a plain sphere instead.

Unfortunately the plant is still black even though the casts shadows on the sphere is turned off.

Is there any way to achieve this effect in poser?

I'm trying to make a kid looking behind a snow globe and half his face is magnified. I know it has something to do with the fresnel- refraction value.

All of my efforts have ended up with an upside down reflection of other objects in the scene.

Any help would be appreciated :)

IIRC, the upside down reflection is due to a scientific principle I can't exactly remember the name of right now. Refraction? Anyway, the light is passing through two lenses which would be both sides of the bowl whichturns it upside down. Why you don't notice this effect in nature is because  of a third lens, located on the back of your eye, which flips everything right side up again. It's not doing it in your render because that actual light never reaches your eye. So all you see is an upside down picture.

This is incorrect - total fantasy. (No insult intended) Please don't react to this. I am preparing materials to explain and demonstrate what is happening and what to do about it.

Being upside down is real - nothing to do with fake renderer vs. real eye.

Need some time though as this requires lots of test renders, in multiple versions of Poser, and I'm currently actually working.

Well, I admit, I don't know if that's the principle that's operating in Poser, but  total fantasy???, it's the principle behind how a camera obscura works.

By fantasy I was referring to the "Why you don't notice this effect in nature" - because we do notice it in nature. It actually happens. A real glass ball shows the world upside down. There is no need to explain why we don't notice it. We do notice it.

 It's not doing it in your render because that actual light never reaches your eye.

This ^^^ is a fantasy.

Yes! It worked really great. The only problem is those hexagons on my sphere, but it's probably the models fault. I can use a plain sphere instead.

Unfortunately the plant is still black even though the casts shadows on the sphere is turned off.

I'd say something else is blocking the light. Your scene looks really dark everywhere, although inside the sphere I agree it's even darker. Put my light meter next to the sphere, and also inside the sphere, and render. If the one inside says things are darker there, then there's something you're not telling me.

NOTE!!! The light meter is normally invisible to raytracing - turn it back to visible or it will disappear inside the glass.

Regarding the hexagons, there is stuff we can do about that too. Let's come back to that though, after the light issue is solved.

Oh WOW! The light meter clearly shows that it's darker inside MY sphere as well. MYSTERY!

Oh crap. The glass sphere is blocking the IDL lighting from the environment sphere.

This is a bug in Poser that I wasn't aware of. Even after I turned off "Light Emitter" for the sphere, it's still blocking the ambient IDL.

I had to make the sphere itself invisible to raytracing in order to let in the IDL.

Here's what I got.

You were right. I upped the light and there's color inside the sphere.

I don't know why but I used a regular sphere and still got lines. Another thing is that I used IOR 1,1 and your light meter just disappeared for some reason. It's exactly beside the flower. I rendered 3 times with different positions and I still can't see it.

Funny thing is that I forgot to turn cast shadows off in the sphere and still got color???

jeez, I hope they fixed that bug in PP2016 beta. hadn't tried it, just done car windows et al.

Interested in the solution to the black lines, would say turn off smoothing? But, shutting up. Cool thread.

Very cool thread! I'm a bit concerned though at all the issues BB keeps finding with how IDL was implemented.

Well, I admit, I don't know if that's the principle that's operating in Poser, but  total fantasy???, it's the principle behind how a camera obscura works.

The image is inverted in a camera obscura, too....

Regarding the visible mesh artifacts, as mentioned, this sometimes is the result of enabling smoothing in render settings. You can turn smoothing off, but it isn't always necessary.

Visible mesh artifacts are often due to failure to adjust Ray Bias correctly.

Now I'm going to bring up something I seem to have to do over and over and still the number of times it gets through is near zero. It's in my signature just to make sure - but nope I have to bring it up.

MY DISPLAY UNITS ARE INCHES

When you recreate my shaders, you must be set to inches. If you are not, then you're not storing the same numbers that I am.

In my case, for example, I gave a Refract Ray Bias of .1 - but what did you give? Did you type .1? Are your units inches? Suppose your units are centimeters? Then you typed .1 centimeters which is 2.54 times smaller than my .1 inches.

This is what I get when I type in .1 with centimeters as my Poser Display Unit.

Does this look familiar?

We also can use subdivision instead of smoothing and get rid of artifacts that way and still keep a nice, smooth shape.

Here I am still using the incorrect .1 centimeter refract ray bias. But I used subdivision instead of smoothing on my sphere, and I don't see any artifacts.

Oh - I wanted to mention that I understood what you wanted based on the magnified cat image in the original post.

But ...

That is not a "fish eye" effect. 

This is a fish eye effect. A fish eye refers to an ultra-wide angle lens that can see most or all of an entire hemisphere at once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisheye_lens

To produce this effect with a sphere as I did, you have to modulate the IOR so that the part facing the camera is 1 and the part facing the subjects behind it is near zero.

This is the setup for a fish eye effect. It is a hack, and is relying on the camera being mostly "south" of the lens. (In the positive Z direction, looking along the negative Z axis.) I have to use this hack because there is no node setup that can tell me directly whether the surface is facing towards or away from the camera. (No Edge_Blend doesn't do it. It gives the same answer for straight forward or straight backward.)

If you wanted this to work from other directions, you'd have to adjust the vector represented by the N node's parameter values.

Most of the things I make in poser is to test out your threads so my units are always in inches although I live in a centimeter world ;)

I can't seem to make your last shader work for some reason though. Anyway, I turned of smoothing and upped the subdivision and it finally worked perfectly!

Thank you so much BB, I learned so many things, I'll be playing with these settings for a while :)

thanx, BB! could we use yer fish-eye globe to render interior scene (with refraction only, no reflection/spec), then later use that as reflection map or light probe?

ISTR colin saying one could do this for P4 refl maps but I couldn't get it to work (poser camera at fl<1.0 mm).

If you mean to make an IBL image (angular map light probe), that format is already renderable using my "GenIBL" prop found on my site. it is a mirror with a very special shape. I suppose I could make a lens do it, too, but it would be more difficult than the mirror and would take longer to render.

If you mean equirectangular format, which is for the SphereMap node and for my EnvSphere, no a lens alone cannot make that no matter the shape or IOR. I have tried to make a system of lens and mirror combined to do it but never succeeded so far.

yes, I tried to render equirectangular map using poser camera, but it didn't work.  I recall yer genIBL now.  

I've been having a lot of fun playing with this but I've got a little problem.

I was wondering if there is any other way to make those black lines invisible.

I played with the RayBias with no results and I when I upped the subdivision levels I got this.

It works fine with all other objects but it would be great if there is a solution other than these two so that I can use this.