I want to make this:

Look like this. 

They are the same suit, same lighting, but the texture looks fantastic close up, not so much at a distance.

So the question is, how do I achieve that look when I want to render the suit from a distance to show the whole thing, or in an action shot? I know some of this is shortcomings of the Firefly render engine, but what tricks can I use to bring out the same quality from those two very different scenes?

Is there some mix of material room madness (oh my god! MATH!!!) or settings in the render tab that can get me there?

Am I asking the right questions? 

 I created this suit and the textures, so I can modify that if needed. I don't think the problem is there as much. The materials are fairly sparse, and I am using Poser 9, so I don't have gamma correction or anything the pro version has to get me there.

 Here is a screen shot of the main suit texture. There isn't much to it at all.

Render settings?

Specular is set a bit high and so is the bump, but I can't see that map. Reduce the spec value a bit and experiment with the highlight size. You may wish to create an alternate specular map or, at the very least, experiment a bit with the fine-tuning options available with various specular nodes rather than just relying on a single channel setting without the use of Poser's very nice nodes.

Take a look around for alternate specular node systems and the like. I'd bet my left foot, which I don't use much except for someplace to put a shoe, that you'll find several nifty specular threads around here or elsewhere.

 I tried a few of them on the alternate specular node, but didn't like what they were doing . I guess I could go back and spend a day just playing with the nodes and see what I can come up with. I don't have BB's knowledge of this (something tells me he's forgotten more than I will ever know), but it wouldn't hurt to experiment.

 I tried a few of them on the alternate specular node, but didn't like what they were doing . I guess I could go back and spend a day just playing with the nodes and see what I can come up with. I don't have BB's knowledge of this (something tells me he's forgotten more than I will ever know), but it wouldn't hurt to experiment.

Try using your bump map attached to a spec node hooked into the alt spec channel, just for starters. That's only a small blasphemy against the Node Cult, I'd imagine :) , but it might give you some more control in long-distance renders while allowing you to still have the nice closeup without having to change any values between renders. Take a look at the Poser manual for a brief overview of the different sorts of specular nodes. (Note: It's terribly brief... not really stating many differences. But, there are some that are detailed.) Make sure any black&white bump map is set to a gamma correction of 1, btw. (It looks like you've already done that, but just making sure.)
A sort of "fish scale" effect, with/without the iridescence, is probably what you're looking for. Searching for a free shader like that might help you fine-tune yours.

 I never thought of doing that. I am going to give it a try in a little bit. Thanks for the tip, and the search.

Hi

Increase pixel sample 8-10, set post filter size to 2 and post filter type to sync

That specular value should be lowered considerably.  If you need to use the Alt_specular  connector, zero the Secular value of the Specular_Color and use blinn for the Alt_specular.  It responds better to light.  

Blinn node, got it. I was messing with glossy but it's not right.

BRB... 

Hi

Increase pixel sample 8-10, set post filter size to 2 and post filter type to sync

 

 

 

Almost missed this post. Thanks!

 Much, much better. But now the color is a bit off. I'll correct that and then replace the materials I have in the package. Hopefully I can get this thing uploaded soon.

Thanks a heap, hborre, your advice was key here. And Morkonan, I attached the suit color to the blinn node from your idea to keep it from getting washed out. I will have to adjust that to bring the color back to where it was.

Thank you all! 

and Morkonan, I attached the suit color to the blinn node from your idea to keep it from getting washed out. I will have to adjust that to bring the color back to where it was.

That's the reason that it's "darker" than you would have expected. Don't use the texture map in the Blinn. If you use anything, use only the bump and don't put it in the color value for the blinn node, like you've done here, but put in the intensity value (whatever it's called, right beneath the color value) instead. (Ideally, you'd leave it out, but that may require you to do more fussing around with nodes and such. Try different arrangements to taste.)

If you have the texture map attached to the color channel in the blinn node, you're telling the material that you want the blinn to be colored as it is on the texture map, where the blinn value occurs in the render. That's "not good" because the texture map you have isn't made for that, it's made to show the suit's colors, not the blinn/specular color. That's also why you're not getting much of a specular highlight on the suit, right now. Disconnect the colored texture map from the color channel of the blinn node and connect the B&W bump to the value channel, at 1, and you will start to see proper specular highlights.

 Ahhhh, ok. I'll try it again.

You can also control the spread of the specular highlight to either give you a softer or sharper affect.

 Getting closer to what I am looking for. But it's almost 4am here and I've been up all night messing with this thing in one way or another. Time for bed...

Definitely getting there.

 But this is where I want to get to.... Maybe tomorrow I'll have a light bulb come on and get the answer...

How is your lighting with your test renders?  Have you tried simulating the lighting above?  Maybe you're already there.  Just a comment so I can follow this thread.

 I never even thought of that to be honest. I am using BB's envirosphere and IDL. I guess I could try to emulate the lighting.

 I did away with the Blinn and just plugged the bump map into specular value. Brought both the specular color and value to 1. The highlight size is .5 right now.

 I can live with this. I scrubbed everything and built the shader from scratch. I used glossy node and plugged the bump map into the eccentricity value and adjusted from there. I also adjusted the other shaders on the tree to fit. I am going to give my head and eyes a much needed rest and then add this shader to the materials package. I'll make a note in the ReadMe to allude to it.

 Just out of curiosity, how much effect does my UV mapping have on all of this? I use UVMapper basic version, so I don't have a lot of control over it. The UV mapping in Wings isn't all that great, and I can't get my head around Blender right now. I was thinking of begging the wife to let me get UVMapper Pro...

 Thoughts?

     Hey cousin!  Looks like you've made good progress with this project.  Do you have anything which will "unwrap" a mesh to UV map it?  I use UV Layout;  there are several others out there.

     For geometrically simple shapes, the UV Mapper basic options do fine, but for organic shapes (trees, people, clothes, etc) you need a UV-unwrapper.

 Can you recommend one that won't make my wife hit me with her checkbook? I downloaded the demo version of UVMapper Pro. I guess it's the same as the classic, but with a couple more features. I really want to get something I can use that will let me texture my Asian girl when the time comes for that.

Roadkill. Works great and free. http://www.pullin-shapes.co.uk/page8.htm

 Roadkill is FREE???? Cool. I am going to get it. Thanks!

Looks pretty much the same at distance and close up. Greyish,not quite as dark blue. That's the way it appears to me.

you need colour math node to which reflection and specular nodes are attached, fresnel blend node and diffuse node to get that effect from superman movie.  they all go into alt diffuse channel.  BB has posted this shader several times.  you also need hdri on envsphere so suit can reflect both sky and sun source.

Looks pretty much the same at distance and close up. Greyish,not quite as dark blue. That's the way it appears to me.

 

 

Yeah, every time I tried to get it more blue it washed out and didn't look right. There are so many pictures of the movie suit in so many different lighting settings it was hard to match it. But this one is as close as I can get it. And if you want to, and I know you will, you can mess with the shader to get it to your liking. 

 Kicking myself for getting in a hurry and releasing my suit now.

I can upload this texture as an add-on right? 

I don't see why not!  I'm working with the new suit now.  The only thing left is learning how to use wind dynamics for the cape.  It's a quarter ta 3 in the morning though.  Time for a little sleep!

 I will do just that. Get some sleep!

Ditto.  The add-on update is a good idea.  Spent some time reworking the textures and found some combos I like better.  Great work.  And thanks.

 Sure. If you don't mind, can you post your renders here? And maybe give me a hint at what you did? I can create these things, but I have a heck of a time with getting the materials right. I guess I have to sit down and go through every node in the material room and experiment for a couple months. Or get BB's book when it comes out (if I can understand it)...

 See. This is exactly what I am talking about. Here is my hero, Green Lightning. See all the stretching in the UV maps? I need a better unwrapping program than UV Mapper Classic. It's good for what it is, but I can't really fix things like this because it doesn't show them. I downloaded Roadkill, but so far I can't make heads or tails of it. I've only opened it a couple times, but I can't really use it yet. It might end up uninstalled...

 This whole costume is already rigged. I did it today. The gloves are huge and fingerless because of his powers - shoots green lightning from his fingers. The discs on his shoulders are for the cape I am finishing up. He's shown from the knees up because he doesn't have boots yet. I even rigged the belt. I usually just parent it to the hip. The only thing I didn't model on this is his shield. It's a texture map and bump map. I have the bump set to 1 because I wanted it to stand out.

 Oh, but the disc is modeled.

Roadkill. Works great and free. http://www.pullin-shapes.co.uk/page8.htm

And it works just fine in WineBottler for Mac users by the looks of it.

 I guess it works, but I still haven't really gotten into the program very much. As I said, I opened it twice and fiddled with one of my models, but I wasn't really able to do anything with it yet. I will eventually. I couldn't do anything in Wings when I got it either.

 So how do you fix stretching? Relax UV's?

You can't see the stretching so much from the front, but from that side shot it looks bad, especially in the arms and legs. The side of the head isn't too bad. The stretching follows the flow of his head and almost looks natural. 

Oh yeah, he still doesn't have any boots... 

rokket if you look at the site I linked you to above you will see there is a document by EnglishBob on Roadkill/Poser workflow in addition to a pdf manual.

 Yeah, I will have to go back and get those. I was in a hurry to download Roadkill because the wife beckoned. I will go and get those now.

Pinging the new thread due to non-notification.

I like your new hero!  I can't wait to see the significance of new powers, where they came from and how they are used!

In the meantime, it's clear that you pro's have better eyesight than me.  I don't notice any stretching or distortion of the material.  

 If you look at the meaty part of his thigh and follow it across, you will notice the honeycomb pattern getting wider and more distorted at it get to the center. It is also very evident on his biceps. In real life, perhaps someone with big guns like that could stretch the suit out, but it's not supposed to happen on a 3D model.

Yeah, I am impressed with how his costume is turning out. His origin is the one I told you Marvel wasn't interested in. I have been developing him since I was 10 years old. If you think about it, the Green Lantern Canon is older than a few of the comics out there. 

 OK, serious question:

How do you edit an mc6? I am assuming any .png or .jpg I use as part of the texture will be in the mc6, and that it will point to it when you load it, so it will look for it where I got it from on my harddrive, which for most end users will be in their runtime. So what program edits an mc6? I have cr2editor and  crimson editor. I think one of those should work, right?

Any text editing program will open the mc6.  I use notepad++ for such work.

 ah, ok. So I could use Crimson Editor and just change the lines that point to the images to say "Runtime.... blah blah blah.."

Cool, thank you! I will start working on that later today. My wife just invited me to go see Ant Man. You can imagine where my priorities are at the moment. 

 If you look at the meaty part of his thigh and follow it across, you will notice the honeycomb pattern getting wider and more distorted at it get to the center. It is also very evident on his biceps. In real life, perhaps someone with big guns like that could stretch the suit out, but it's not supposed to happen on a 3D model.

Yeah, I am impressed with how his costume is turning out. His origin is the one I told you Marvel wasn't interested in. I have been developing him since I was 10 years old. If you think about it, the Green Lantern Canon is older than a few of the comics out there. 

Crap, now I said Lantern and I meant Lightning.... been a long few days.

 OK, this is just WRONG!