Having paid for, and waited for it to be delivered, then putting in a serial number of ridiculous length, now I gotta put the damned thing on line to activate? Not enough hoops to jump through or what? I'll stick with PP2014.

Doric.

P11/Pro11 has the same activation/deactivation feature that Game Dev has. You have two choices. Have your system on a dedicated internet connection or go through the manual activation. The documentation should have the information on manual activation. If you can't find it, either contact tech support and/or go over to the RDNA P10/Pro2014 forum and look for a lengthy thread "...yes, Poser deactivates..." or something to this effect. Near the end of the thread there is a step by step by one of the members who has gone through the deactivation/re-activation at least twice.

Basically, Poser now phones home every 60 days if it has a dedicated connection. If it does not, it must contact the activation server at least once withing 180 days or Poser deactivates. There is a way to manually activate but it does require an internet connection to obtain the activation information. Sometime in the future, SMS is supposed to create a portal that will allow you to register your copy and make the manual activation permanent to avoid the deactivation. How this works or when it will be available is anyone's guess.

icprncss2 posted at 5:20AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241143

P11/Pro11 has the same activation/deactivation feature that Game Dev has. You have two choices. Have your system on a dedicated internet connection or go through the manual activation. The documentation should have the information on manual activation. If you can't find it, either contact tech support and/or go over to the RDNA P10/Pro2014 forum and look for a lengthy thread "...yes, Poser deactivates..." or something to this effect. Near the end of the thread there is a step by step by one of the members who has gone through the deactivation/re-activation at least twice.

Basically, Poser now phones home every 60 days if it has a dedicated connection. If it does not, it must contact the activation server at least once withing 180 days or Poser deactivates. There is a way to manually activate but it does require an internet connection to obtain the activation information. Sometime in the future, SMS is supposed to create a portal that will allow you to register your copy and make the manual activation permanent to avoid the deactivation. How this works or when it will be available is anyone's guess.

The portal could be a while if the reports on the library are anything to go by, all the effort should be aimed at the first SR. If they don't fix that quickly there will be very few complaining about deactivation as most will have reverted to an earlier Poser version or moved on. I am certainly not considering the upgrade at any price until I see some of the bugs fixed and the portal up and running.

icprncss2 posted at 12:52AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241143

Basically, Poser now phones home every 60 days if it has a dedicated connection. If it does not, it must contact the activation server at least once withing 180 days or Poser deactivates. There is a way to manually activate but it does require an internet connection to obtain the activation information. Sometime in the future, SMS is supposed to create a portal that will allow you to register your copy and make the manual activation permanent to avoid the deactivation. How this works or when it will be available is anyone's guess.

No software in either of my two serious computers "phones home", there is no connection to the net in either one. Not even a LAN card. Sounds to me like sometime in the future, before it will activate again, it's going to be saying it has to have my CC number. 'nuff said, I can stay with 2014. Installed this morning, uninstalled within an hour because of needing "activation". They have my name, address,phone number and more than likely, the SN recorded. They shouldn't need any more unless for the reason I stated, to sometime in the future pry more money out of me. Done with them now.

Doric

PrecisionXXX posted at 10:13AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241152

icprncss2 posted at 12:52AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241143

Basically, Poser now phones home every 60 days if it has a dedicated connection. If it does not, it must contact the activation server at least once withing 180 days or Poser deactivates. There is a way to manually activate but it does require an internet connection to obtain the activation information. Sometime in the future, SMS is supposed to create a portal that will allow you to register your copy and make the manual activation permanent to avoid the deactivation. How this works or when it will be available is anyone's guess.

No software in either of my two serious computers "phones home", there is no connection to the net in either one. Not even a LAN card. Sounds to me like sometime in the future, before it will activate again, it's going to be saying it has to have my CC number. 'nuff said, I can stay with 2014. Installed this morning, uninstalled within an hour because of needing "activation". They have my name, address,phone number and more than likely, the SN recorded. They shouldn't need any more unless for the reason I stated, to sometime in the future pry more money out of me. Done with them now.

Doric

I am keeping an eye on it but I have become resigned to the fact that I will stick at Poser 2014. I did upgrade to Game Dev but that will have been my last upgrade I suspect. There was enough flack after the introduction of Game Dev for SM to know there were some that did not like the deactivation. They seem to think it is still a good idea when it is fairly clear it will not deter the pirates only some very loyal customers. Nice to think your loyalty has been so well rewarded, but then SM is not alone in this, sadly loyalty never seems to be rewarded these day.

Poser Pro 11 delivery due today. Saying I should hold off with installation???

vitachick posted at 10:37AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241166

Poser Pro 11 delivery due today. Saying I should hold off with installation???

It is a personal choice. If your Poser PC is connected to the Internet your copy may never be deactivated. Nerd3D has stated there is a system in place should SM go bust so that you can continue to use Poser Game Dev and Poser 11. If you are not connected to the Internet it will deactivate and you will have to run the manual process, I suspect twice a year. Again Nerd3D has stated there will be an activation portal opened to make things easier, it is just it does not exist at present but then it should not be needed for 180 days.

Personally I have never liked the deactivation process and, if I had known it was in Gave Dev I would not have purchased the upgrade. Happily I can revert to Poser 2014 that does not have this vile procedure. Those the purchased Game Dev outright do not have that opportunity.

I was already prepared to stick with Poser 2014 but as I have been underwhelmed with Poser 11 and it's apparent rushed release, it really is not a problem for me.

There are clear instructions on how to manually activate Poser 11 in the user manual that does not require the PC that you have Poser installed on to be connected to the internet. It is on page 31, chapter 2, under manual activation. It gives you a file that you take to a pc that does have internet access, get your activation certificate, and return it to the non-internet connected PC to activate Poser. All it asks for is your name, serial number and e-mail address. It does not ask for CC info or any other billing info.

AmbientShade posted at 8:54AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241169

. It does not ask for CC info or any other billing info.

Yet.

Doric

I just want to add, if there wasn't so much pirating of software, this would probably not take as many steps. It's sad, but I respect the companies and put up with a little inconvenience.

Boni posted at 4:05PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241188

I just want to add, if there wasn't so much pirating of software, this would probably not take as many steps. It's sad, but I respect the companies and put up with a little inconvenience.

I understand that, I am not against the activation process I am against the deactivation process. This will not stop the pirates and it is not just a small inconvenience to some, the people that pay are being punished while those who don't will carry on regardless. I will add I have paid for every piece of software I use, except for those given for free, and I always have but I still don't like jumping through more hoops than the pirates do

Boni, I understand that there is pirating going on, and agree that it may be a problem. But, I did not pirate my copy, yet, I am the one to pay the price in inconvenience on a scale that is unreasonable. One time activation, or registering, okay. Requiring a connection to the internet is not okay. Requiring it every half year is far from acceptable. I buy physical to avoid having to take it to the net for any purpose, not so I have to do it every six months. Not that it matters anymore, I've taken it out of the computer, I won't be putting it in again. I can easily see where this process can be twisted into a way of extorting more money from a legitimate user, and over the years I've been alive, I've learned there is not one single company that can be trusted not to do it. If I live for another ten years, I'll probably still be using 2014.

Doric

I believe that SM is intending to eventually move us all to a subscription payment basis. So, this is just the beginning.

And this is a shame, really, because I vastly prefer Poser over DAZ and would love to see compatibility across the spectrum.

Alas, since both companies are playing hard-ass and refuse to cooperate with each other, it is us who lose.

Nice to see outfits live HiveWire surface to bridge the gaps, at least.

They could well go to a subscription basis but it depends how they do it. I pay each month to keep my copy of Vue current but if I stop paying I still have the latest version to play with I just lose the next update. I am happy with that, but if it means, when I stop the subscription I lose the program, that is a big NO NO in my book.

Like PrecisionXXX I can see me still using Poser 2014 in ten years. I hope SM make enough pirates pay for a legal copy to make up for those loyal users that are not updating, somehow I doubt they will.

A "pay to own" subscription would be okay with me, too--where, at some point, if you could no longer afford to pay them, you at least wouldn't lose the program. Adobe should do that, as well, with CC.

But they really need to fix a lot of bugs first, IMO.

hornet3d posted at 2:54PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241223

I hope SM make enough pirates pay for a legal copy to make up for those loyal users that are not updating, somehow I doubt they will.

There are some very smart people with big stakes riding on being right that think DRM just encourages piracy. Personally, my opinion (and it's certainly not an original one) is that piracy only begins to matter if the people that pirate might have been legitimate customers in the first place. Most people that want your product and have the money to buy it will buy it, imo, and if they don't have the money for it they were never legitimate prospective customers in the first place. Thus, them stealing it (and let's be honest, that's what piracy is, whether pirates admit it or not) doesn't actually matter since it represents no loss for the seller. In that narrow instance, theft of non-tangible goods like software or content by people that did not represent actual demand (the economics term meaning both desire to have a thing and the ability to pay for it) is a victimless theft.

All that said, I am not advocating piracy. I am spelling out the reasons that I think DRM is just wrong-headed, especially intrusive and onerous DRM. Honestly though, is there really another kind?

Xatren posted at 9:53PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241234

hornet3d posted at 2:54PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241223

I hope SM make enough pirates pay for a legal copy to make up for those loyal users that are not updating, somehow I doubt they will.

There are some very smart people with big stakes riding on being right that think DRM just encourages piracy. Personally, my opinion (and it's certainly not an original one) is that piracy only begins to matter if the people that pirate might have been legitimate customers in the first place. Most people that want your product and have the money to buy it will buy it, imo, and if they don't have the money for it they were never legitimate prospective customers in the first place. Thus, them stealing it (and let's be honest, that's what piracy is, whether pirates admit it or not) doesn't actually matter since it represents no loss for the seller. In that narrow instance, theft of non-tangible goods like software or content by people that did not represent actual demand (the economics term meaning both desire to have a thing and the ability to pay for it) is a victimless theft.

All that said, I am not advocating piracy. I am spelling out the reasons that I think DRM is just wrong-headed, especially intrusive and onerous DRM. Honestly though, is there really another kind?

That is the whole point it is only intrusive and onerous on the people that buy it the pirates just carry on as before. I don't support piracy it is just stealing but it always makes me laugh when I see film and music companies state they have loss millions of sales, based on the assumption that, if the DRM works all the pirates will buy a copy.....not on this planet.

"I was never going to buy that Mercedes, because I can't afford one. But hey, here's one with the keys in it, I'll just take this one. They aren't losing any money because I was never going to be a customer to begin with".

It doesn't matter if it's tangible or intangible, physical labor went into producing the product and those people deserve to be compensated for their time and effort by those who are using said product. There is a large percentage of pirates who believe that software and other digital goods should be freely available to everybody, because they aren't "tangible" which is why they pirate and then share the content they pirate. Those are the people that cause the most headache for digital content creators, and why all software will eventually be DRM or cloud based. And it is not a victimless theft. You're benefiting from the work of others without compensating them for their efforts. And in a lot of cases those pirates charge access to their servers, so they are not only benefiting from someone else's efforts without compensating those efforts, they're also profiting from it. If the number of people that pirate the content outweigh the number of people that purchase the content, then eventually that content will no longer be produced or updated. Its simple math. Content producers have to find ways of managing those losses somehow in order to continue producing their content. DRM does not prevent all piracy, but it does help to lessen the effects of it. And going to extraneous lengths to keep your pc offline because you think it's safe that way is just creating more hassle for yourself in the long run. If pirates and other hackers want your personal info they can get it regardless of what you do. If you walk through a department store with your credit or debit card in your pocket, that info can be swiped with electronic devices. Motherboards are now being developed that transmit data to satellites directly - no need for internet connectivity.

Xatren posted at 6:13PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241252

AmbientShade posted at 5:52PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241245

"I was never going to buy that Mercedes, because I can't afford one. But hey, here's one with the keys in it, I'll just take this one. They aren't losing any money because I was never going to be a customer to begin with".

Look, I don't support piracy either, but you know this is a strawman. The car in this example is a tangiable good, and ownership of it is like a zero sum game. When one person steals it, the other person loses it, or has one less to sell to someone that could have afforded it. It's not that way with software and content. Simply saying that it doesn't matter whether it's tangible or not doesn't make that so. The only time an intangible product producer loses money to piracy is when the pirate represented actual demand in the economic sense.

Personally, I purchase all of my software and content legally, because I remember the look on my dad's face the one time I stole something when I was a kid. Moral inclinations, however, don't have any bearing on the economic impact of piracy. It either has an effect or it does not, regardless of how we feel about it, and it is the economic impact that determines whether or not there is a victim in the act. For someone to be wronged economically, they have to suffer economic injury or loss of some kind. If the person that pirates a thing could never have bought it anyway (not would never, but could never), there is no sense in which the creator or seller of that thing suffered a loss or injury by that act of piracy. On the other hand, I have the money to purchase commercial copies of things, and therefore it would not be a victimless theft if I pirated something. I represent actual demand, and me opting for a pirated copy instead of a commercial copy represents real loss to the seller or creator.

Now, the providing of the pirated version for others to download is an entirely different story, and not at all what I am talking about here.

EDIT: Back on topic, the DRM in this case doesn't seem that incredibly onerous to me. Other poser users seem to disagree, judging from the backlash over the de-activations in Game Dev, though. That being the case, it seems a boneheaded move (to me) for a company with arguably trailing market share at this point and considerable losses on the books to risk a repeat of that series of events by including what is essentially the same DRM system again.

For my part, I am just going to stick with Pro 2012 (I got a great deal after all ) until such time as the promised infrastructure for dealing with the activation process is in place, and make a decision about upgrading to Pro 11 then.

That theory places physical resources in higher value than human labor. It doesn't matter if it's a car or a piece of software, it still takes human effort to produce it and that human effort requires compensation of some form in order for it to still be viable for the human to continue producing it. Assuming that people who pirate only do so because they can't afford to buy is the strawman. If I'm offered two products of equal value, one free and the other with a price tag, I'm going to take the free one first even if I can afford the price tag on the other because then I have that money to spend elsewhere on items that do not have a free or cheaper alternative. If I find the same item at target for $10 less than it is at wal-mart then I'm going to buy it at target. It's the same principle. People take things for free in order to save money, not just because they don't have money. The excuses for why the do it come in after. And they're all just excuses. So claiming people who can't afford it are never customers anyway is false. Just because you can't afford it now, doesn't mean you aren't going to save up for when you can afford it if the incentive is there. But if you can get it for free now, the incentive is removed, there's no reason to save up for it. And there are several people who have stopped producing things due to them losing money to piracy, right here in this very community.

Not trying to derail, just making the point. As for Poser and it's activation, it's about the most lenient activation method found in software at present. Sure it could be more efficient and less of a hassle, but if you're using game engines or zbrush or most other software, you're still using the same activation method. Eventually it will all be subscription and/or web based.

AmbientShade posted at 7:41PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241259

That theory places physical resources in higher value than human labor. It doesn't matter if it's a car or a piece of software, it still takes human effort to produce it and that human effort requires compensation of some form in order for it to still be viable for the human to continue producing it. Assuming that people who pirate only do so because they can't afford to buy is the strawman. If I'm offered two products of equal value, one free and the other with a price tag, I'm going to take the free one first even if I can afford the price tag on the other because then I have that money to spend elsewhere on items that do not have a free or cheaper alternative. If I find the same item at target for $10 less than it is at wal-mart then I'm going to buy it at target. It's the same principle. People take things for free in order to save money, not just because they don't have money. The excuses for why the do it come in after. And they're all just excuses. So claiming people who can't afford it are never customers anyway is false. Just because you can't afford it now, doesn't mean you aren't going to save up for when you can afford it if the incentive is there. But if you can get it for free now, the incentive is removed, there's no reason to save up for it. And there are several people who have stopped producing things due to them losing money to piracy, right here in this very community.

I'm not saying that the only reason people pirate is because they can't afford a thing. I am saying that in that narrow instance, it doesn't cause the seller of that thing to lose money. It's still morally wrong imo. It just doesn't hurt the seller, in that narrowly defined instance.

Not trying to derail, just making the point. As for Poser and it's activation, it's about the most lenient activation method found in software at present. Sure it could be more efficient and less of a hassle, but if you're using game engines or zbrush or most other software, you're still using the same activation method. Eventually it will all be subscription and/or web based.

Don't even get me started on how terrible the zbrush activation is. You have to release your license from one machine to move it to another. That's just a complete pain in the butt. You do get two machines it can be activated on, but not concurrently (as far as I know; it wasn't concurrent when I bought mine). So if something happens to your machine and you can't log into their website with it to release your license, you're down to one more activation before they force you to buy it again if you want to keep using it. On top of that, they recently ended the ability to transfer licenses to different owners for individuals.

When all paid software is subscription only or web based, I will finish transitioning to FOSS only software. I agree with you that it's going that way, and quickly. Adobe and Autodesk are both there already.

nerd posted at 9:57PM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4238937

MistyLaraPrincess posted at 12:13PM Mon, 16 November 2015 - #4238264

any news if new poser will work on non-internet connected pc?

i always buy the box version, hoping it includes everything needed.

does poser library still require adobe product?

thanks.

Poser 11 will need to be activated. But that can be done off line if need be. You will be able to request a perpetual activation in that case.

Flash is gone. Nobody in California builds anything out of mud bricks any more, one little earthquake and it all comes crashing down.

havent verified perpetual activation, but, figure nerd would be the one to know

yeah I challenge any assertion of it being a victim less crime to pirate content especially. I know of a few talented people who made great stuff only to release it for a reasonable price, find it immediately pirated and get discouraged and withdraw from releasing things into the market. In this case we are all victims as the pool of content available has been diminished for us all.

On the flip side piracy can to a certain extent grow the market.
Back around the time that poser 7 was coming out (honestly have no idea when that was.. years ago) I was talking to an online friend from a gaming community and complimenting him profusely about his character art... where did it come from..what?! you made that? how?.. etc etc. Long story short he sent me a big file containing poser 6 and a large, really poorly sorted, runtime of content. I'd never really been interested in downloading movies or music, and my software needs were limited to games which i bought and the included software on my system so the concept of pirating was not really on my radar. But that's how I got started in this none-the-less. Due to that act of sharing SM has gotten a full purchase of poser 8 and an upgrade to pro for each subsequent release. Additionally I've picked up a large number of content items through the years. Now in todays world if that situation was to repeat without illegal sharing, I'd have gotten a dowload link to Free DAZ studio and the free Gen2 or 3 bases. With that content I may or may not have been intrigued enough to carry on, but its very likely poser and poser centered content would not get much if any of my money. As much as I see the morality of Piracy to be pretty black and white, I'm not sure the totality of the situation is as simple as we would like

meatSim wrote... "I know of a few talented people who made great stuff only to release it for a reasonable price, find it immediately pirated and get discouraged and withdraw from releasing things into the market."

I'm one of them. That's my reason for being sick and tired, fed up, PO'ed, and pretty much done with the community at large. I still hang around the torrent and pirate sites and occasionally make a fuss and remind them of the stuff they won't be getting from me and how they're cutting off the hand that feeds them. I also invite them to make their own content and offer to guide them in content creation. So far, I've had no takers from the bunch of selfish, greedy, immature and generally uneducated punks that constitute the pirate 'communities'.
At the same time, some content is poorly made (expletive deleted) that doesn't come close to living up to it's promotional shots (a lot of Photoshopping maybe?) and downloading it first allows one to test it before plonking down money.

kittykat98 posted at 4:54PM Sat, 28 November 2015 - #4241375

I also invite them to make their own content and offer to guide them in content creation. So far, I've had no takers from the bunch of selfish, greedy, immature and generally uneducated punks that constitute the pirate 'communities'.

Perhaps you should make the same offer to people here. It's no surprise that going on pirate bay and offering warez kiddies instruction for something that takes effort didn't grow the content creation community.

In fact, why don't you share here what you would have offered if someone had taken you up on it? I would personally be very interested in seeing it.