Your Input

We would be nowhere without the members of our forums. I've read through some recent threads and a re-curing theme emerges. The members what change. The members want a voice. The following are some points I've noted

1. Marketplace variety. Many buyers want the expanded DAZ genesis 3 figures.
2. Many buyers also want continued support for V4 and are dispointed in the lower volume of products (myself included)
3. Forum members want more input and more useful information supplied inside of the forums such as new shaders, tips and tricks ... found unusual items. Challenges.
4. All users want more of a voice.

So ... here, and this is JUST for Poser (since this is the Poser Forum) I start this thread to give you a voice as to what you want for the Poser Forum and for Poser topics in general. Please for the sake of all who want to participate, this is a positive thread ... complaints are for elsewhere I want to encourage a supportive environment. Your turn ...

sounds good to me
I could use continued support for V4 and more products for V4 thank you

Hi Boni

Im not really sure what you mean or what you want input about? Don't get me wrong everything that makes a forum more exciting is a good thing But not sure if you want input regarding those four points?

Because they don't seem like something that you can wish for or what to say. If vendors don't make stuff for the Genesis 3 figure, what can you do then? I can only speak for my self of course and why i only make stuff for V4/M4 compared to the genesis figures, at least for now. Which is because i find them to be very slow and somewhat painful to work with, I don't have the best computer in the world and V4/M4 are in my opinion very good characters both to work with and quality wise and suit my needs perfect, so personally i see little reason to upgrade them, guess this answers point 2 as well

Point 3 and 4 again if people don't ask or someone post about it, there is not a lot you can do, i guess.

But maybe i misunderstood you intention with the post?

Sorry if that's the case

Pauline, and Paul, though there is a tiny bit of kind of high priced content for Pauline. Dawn, Michelle, and Terai Yuki come to mind as additional figures. I've seen support for Scarlet drop off almost completely. Content that can be used by both programs is always welcome. Clothing that is functional not just female barbarian, and not just female looking club wear on a Friday night. Environments that are not just (even though I love these) after the world ends/war destroyed/post apocalyptic.

In theory Renderosity could do a week or month of planned themed sales based on time period. So say clothing, hair, environments, and props from 40's era, again same for 50's, 60's, and 70's. Or even a future week sale of 2050 (ish) type product. Heck even super heroes (some outfits currently in the store are very nice, just all D/S). There are some poser super hero poses I've been eyeing for about two months (and probably will break down and purchase).

As far as variety of outfit types, it seems that vendors tend to stick to trends which would be okay if they weren't the same trends. Maybe be influenced by film and or television (ala some of the more creative shows). I'm not saying film and tv are that innovative but their cycle of program types tend to be more varied.

Where were the New Years types of items? Sure there were sales, but not many models recreating New Years (the event). No Times Square models (with ball drop), no big easy (low resource rendering demand) crowds for New Years, no fitness resolution type outfits... I see many many missed opportunities by vendors and the store.

Tying in item types with holidays is an easy simple idea.

Edited to add

I'd suggest adding a thread post drawings of outfits you might consider buying (and a price range) as a way of getting the community involved. Also environments similar to famous paintings would be nice. I'd buy one based on impressionism (if it was done right). There's some films that do this...

3d-Mobster ... those were just examples that I found. I want people's input as to what they (you) want to enhance the forum. What topics interest you? What would you like to see help for? What will feed your inspiration? Not these in particular, unless you want to extrapolate on them because they are personal interests of your own.

Kazam561: Fantastic! that is what I am talking about. Vendors listen up. This is gold. We can add other topics as well, shaders, techniques, where is that hat, coat, character ... How do I ______ (fill in the blank) Look what I found! Is there a way to ... I hope you get the idea ...

more on dynamic clothes and more dynamic outfits too

Kazam561 posted at 11:09PM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4248027

Pauline, and Paul, though there is a tiny bit of kind of high priced content for Pauline. Dawn, Michelle, and Terai Yuki come to mind as additional figures. I've seen support for Scarlet drop off almost completely. Content that can be used by both programs is always welcome. Clothing that is functional not just female barbarian, and not just female looking club wear on a Friday night. Environments that are not just (even though I love these) after the world ends/war destroyed/post apocalyptic.

In theory Renderosity could do a week or month of planned themed sales based on time period. So say clothing, hair, environments, and props from 40's era, again same for 50's, 60's, and 70's. Or even a future week sale of 2050 (ish) type product. Heck even super heroes (some outfits currently in the store are very nice, just all D/S). There are some poser super hero poses I've been eyeing for about two months (and probably will break down and purchase).

As far as variety of outfit types, it seems that vendors tend to stick to trends which would be okay if they weren't the same trends. Maybe be influenced by film and or television (ala some of the more creative shows). I'm not saying film and tv are that innovative but their cycle of program types tend to be more varied.

Where were the New Years types of items? Sure there were sales, but not many models recreating New Years (the event). No Times Square models (with ball drop), no big easy (low resource rendering demand) crowds for New Years, no fitness resolution type outfits... I see many many missed opportunities by vendors and the store.

Tying in item types with holidays is an easy simple idea.

Edited to add

I'd suggest adding a thread post drawings of outfits you might consider buying (and a price range) as a way of getting the community involved. Also environments similar to famous paintings would be nice. I'd buy one based on impressionism (if it was done right). There's some films that do this...

Well, Kazam, your theme idea is great, but.......and this is a big but......

Renderosity would have to lead the vendors in such a direction by planning it, announcing it and then coordinating testing and release. That's a pretty big "ask" from what I see.

The other thing is that the lead time will have to be enormous. You would have to have vendors on board with the plans by Halloween to do a New Year release, just allowing for (very rushed) modeling, rigging, development time, then testing. And all that has to happen before it goes into the store for release.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea. It is. It's excellent! It would be fantastic to see that kind of involvement by Renderosity AND the vendors. I just don't see it happening.

Maybe the better idea would just to get some vendors together - 3 or 4 - to do a small joint project timed to release together.

Either way, it would be nice to see some of these vendors working together to provide an exciting group of products we could get behind.

I know this thread is aimed at Forum progression, but just a few notes in regards to points 1 and 2 that have been raised in the OP about the market place and content development.

Vendors need to be vary wary about building content development strategies based on niche demand or the preferences of vocal minorities.

A fundamental misconception is that vendors are turning their backs on the market. In reality, most vendors are moving with the majority demand of the market and have access, beyond only personal preference, to actual data of what does sell in the marketplace. And this will always influence their content creation efforts despite any strings of nostalgia they may have. Vendors will for the most part create what they generally like to use or want themselves for whichever platform or figure they prefer or find best to work with. Which will be influenced by their experience in the market place. A sci-fi specialist is never going to swap to creating cutesy clothing for K4 regardless of the pressures or the supposed perceived gains in doing so. A broader market is generally best created with new or diversified vendors and not expecting existing ones to change to fit a particular demand. Something I have suggested before is that if you truly believe a particular type product will sell. Why not approach a vendor and offer a commision for the item and then you can sell it yourself in the market? If your right you could be sitting on a gold mine as a middle man. Though if the vendors inclination is correct, you're potentially going to lose money if the predicted demand isn't actually there. Or maybe consider venturing into content creation vending yourself to fill the market void.

One major impact on the current market segment is fragmentation of Software version and actual figure base to build on. Lots of choice isn't always a good thing in a narrow market sector, especially on the base level of things. This can lead to a products thats market is the % of a % of a % of the actual full market segment. Low target market size equates to higher risk for developers. Keeping all of those percentages as large as possible is the key to making a products with the broadest possible reach and viability for actual returns, with the lowest associated risk. Not many truly know the actual % values of each different part of the market, but sales performance is generally the best indicator and most vendors will have access to that data which will likely be used as their primary litmus test.

Unfortunately to all outward appearance the market has moved on for some consumers, moving them from being mainstream consumers with plenty of supply and demand to being niche consumers with low demand and in turn low supply. Niche consumer can always expect less content and more expensive price tags on new content in the long term and really shouldn't expect the greater market to change to suit themselves. As it's really just natural progression of market. I suspect this may be too big a dose of reality for some out there... and all in all it is just my opinion, another opinion among many.

Another aspect that has made renderosity a great place to broker. Is the freedom of content creators to create whatever they want for whichever genre, figure or platform they chose to. In effect, to me, that is what the basis of creativity is, freedom of expression and direction. The majority of vendors generally lean more towards being artists rather than capitalists, but on the other side of the coin there's not much fun in being a starving artist. When I started here I was brokering to the niche end of the market. But Renderosity never pressured me in anyway to change what I was doing to better fit the broader market segment as they seen it. Which let me develop in my own direction and interest which was something I valued highly and wouldn't like to see changed.

Sure make suggestions of what your own individual preference is, but also realise that it is a very small piece of a greater whole that will influence a content creators actual decisions as to what they will create and vend.

And sadly not all that glitters is gold...

While I am sure that some people would want more support for V4 here I think the wider concern is that Poser in general is being forgotten and in that respect I would welcome a wider selection of products. My only concern with this is that it was stated more than once in the Prime forum that Rendo cannot control what the vendors produce so that I cannot see how this wider selection is possible. If it is possible I personally would like to see more produced for Dawn, who seems to have more followers since the Dawn SE version was launched. I would also welcome more dynamic clothing and even V4 with her vast wardrobe has a limited supply of dynamics

I would also welcome a more vibrant forum with information and tips but then we used to have that in the Poser forum some time ago but many who provided this sort of information no longer post in the forum. This is not helped by the inconsistent forum reply notifications, as evidenced by one very helpful contributor stating that, due to the fact these do not work, suggests 'if you need to ask a question please ask elsewhere'. I suspect the end result is that such questions are asked elsewhere resulting in interesting information contained in the replies not being added to this Poser forum.

Finally, having more say is only useful if you are listened to and the evidence in other forums (Prime) here suggest this is unlikely to happen. I really do hope I am wrong and there are a lot of suggestions added to this thread that gives the forum the shot in the arm that it needs.

One solution is to learn how to create own content - which opens up marketplace for paid tutorials and paid consultation.

Email notifications are the life blood of Forums. These Forums email notifications don't work. You all have cut your own wrists.

infinity10 posted at 8:31AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248048

One solution is to learn how to create own content - which opens up marketplace for paid tutorials and paid consultation.

That is certainly true, I have purchased a load of the tutorials on from Fugazi1968 and ironman13. The last couple I have purchased were on dynamic clothing but they were from RDNA. Doing a search on tutorials here does not generate much that is new, but then the search function is not the best. I no longer visit the Market Place on a daily basis so I am likely to miss anything being produced these days.

Wow, yeah, vendors don't listen to your customers, or potential customers.

Listen to a small, but vocal vendor for the competition. That will help this forum and community.

Right DesignAnvil/Razor42?

I am interessted in places and props with different themes. Lot's of figure support for Project E, as soon as she is released. Superfly shader sets are importent too.

CrystalGames posted at 2:49PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248068

Wow, yeah, vendors don't listen to your customers, or potential customers.

Listen to a small, but vocal vendor for the competition. That will help this forum and community.

Right DesignAnvil/Razor42?

There might be some truth to this, but think its a simplified version. Not all vendors are able or desire certain content. For instant i would like to be able to make different characters and sell them, have loads of ideas, so that's not the problem. But creating high quality models that can compete with the current ones is not easy, i currently don't have those skills, so even if i wanted to do it. I know it wouldn't end well, also there is a lot of rigging, texturing and so on. It takes a lot of time to create content and as vendor you can't spend to much time screwing around on things which have no potential. So all vendors will most likely reach there limit at some point. Some times I think people make it sound like vendors can just nap there fingers and create a crazy looking alien model like it was nothing, but they choose not to do it, because they don't care about potential customers or they ran out of ideas. Its just not that simple.

Another side to it is that you might risk spending X amount of time creating a product, for instant lets say for the "Poser 8 dog", but if that is not a popular model your product won't sell either, so you ended up wasting a lot of time. Now this might be ok, if it weren't for the fact that a product will go clearance if it haven't sold in 3 month, so even if you as vendor think a product would be good just for a few people, its not really beneficial or very desired to see a product that you made, well knowing its not going to be a "Top" product end it days on clearance, not because it might not be a good product that would have interested for few people once in a while, but simply because it doesn't sell as much as Renderosity need/want it to.

So you also have to take that into consideration, so I honestly don't think its because vendors don't listen to the community or wouldn't like to make stuff that is only relevant for a minority of people. But the time to make an item that aim towards the minority, doesn't equal that its faster to make than something that is not. So how much time will you spend on something that potentially could end up on clearance in 4-5 month with very poor sale numbers? Now if items did not go on clearance then i think you would see more varied products, because the vendor wouldn't have to be as concerned about there products as they are now.

Anyway, thats just my view on it as a vendor, its just a bit discouraging that we are being pointed out as not caring about what people say, its just not that simple.

one thing i find discouraging, coming across thread has an interesting question, the answer is to buy someone's product and the topic seems done.

would be more interesting to learn how to do it and wish topics would stay active after a product plug

CrystalGames posted at 2:01AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248068

Wow, yeah, vendors don't listen to your customers, or potential customers.

Listen to a small, but vocal vendor for the competition. That will help this forum and community.

Right DesignAnvil/Razor42?

Forgive me i didnt realise you were discussing whats best for this "community" i thought you were talking about the drought in new content for your software tribe of choice crystal. I have over 20 active products in the renderosity store, a few even with Poser support, may i ask what it is that you're contributing to renderosity? Other than personal attacks and flame baiting on those you deem as some kind of enemy in an imaginary tribal division. If you have issue with my comment than go to town, but i don't appreciate blatant personal attacks. Also if that's all you took from my comment than i fear you have somewhat missed the point.

Razor42 posted at 10:50AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248095

CrystalGames posted at 2:01AM Sun, 10 January 2016 - #4248068

Wow, yeah, vendors don't listen to your customers, or potential customers.

Listen to a small, but vocal vendor for the competition. That will help this forum and community.

Right DesignAnvil/Razor42?

Forgive me i didnt realise you were discussing whats best for this "community" i thought you were talking about the drought in new content for your software tribe of choice crystal. I have over 20 active products in the renderosity store, a few even with Poser support, may i ask what it is that you're contributing to renderosity? Other than personal attacks and flame baiting on those you deem as some kind of enemy in an imaginary tribal division. If you have issue with my comment than go to town, but i don't appreciate blatant personal attacks. Also if that's all you took from my comment than i fear you have somewhat missed the point.

OK, that's really funny. Pointing out you're a vendor at DAZ is a personal attack?

This thread is about THIS community, and THIS forum and THIS store.

I was refering to the tone, connotation and the wording "small and vocal" which i found to be OT and personally directed rather than constructive and on topic. But ithis is all off topic and i have no intention of being led into an argument with you

Frankly, i will let the mods decide if its appropriate or not.

Ok ... please, as I said in the beginning ... possitive feedback, no complaints please, folks are beginning to feel attacked on this thread and I don't want to take action, I want us to help each other.

The situation is not good and the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. The market is fragmented along applications, versions (on Poser side), and figures. What can be done? I really don't know and I am not optimistic at all.

chaecuna posted at 12:38PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248105

The situation is not good and the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. The market is fragmented along applications, versions (on Poser side), and figures. What can be done? I really don't know and I am not optimistic at all.

I don't agree that the grass is greener. I'm pretty happy right here on the Poser side.

Nothing CAN be done. Accept the free market for what it is and move on.

If you can't find what you're looking for, make it.

I'm very optimistic.

Please : Poor Boni is trying to get some life back here in the forums. Yeah, yeah, the 2 main apps are going separate ways, nothing we can do about that.

As soon as Renderosity fixes the freestuff section, I"ll upload a ton of free Poser stuff.

But FIRST => Renderosity has to fix the marketplace and freestuff sections. Now it' a huge pile of stuff thrown all together.

Boni knows what I am talking about. => Fix the sections, and the free stuff will come. => Valid for both, Poser and DS.

Happy Posering all.

"Marketplace variety. Many buyers want the expanded DAZ genesis 3 figures."

That's definitely not what I want, and that's not what a quite a few people want in that "All the crap" thread. V4 already drowned out the SM figures and now it's all genesis stuff. If I ever saw a SM figure in a banner or product image on the front page I'd be amazed.

Where's the support for Miki or Pauline? What about Anastasia/Alyson2 or Roxie?

JohnDoe641 posted at 1:14PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248112

"Marketplace variety. Many buyers want the expanded DAZ genesis 3 figures."

That's definitely not what I want, and that's not what a quite a few people want in that "All the crap" thread. V4 already drowned out the SM figures and now it's all genesis stuff. If I ever saw a SM figure in a banner or product image on the front page I'd be amazed.

Where's the support for Miki or Pauline? What about Anastasia/Alyson2 or Roxie?

I know, but what's the point anymore? We went on for 3 pages in the other thread and all they took away from it was Genesis and V4.

Evidently, we can talk until we are blue in the face and no one hears anything that doesn't repeat their own narrative.

The official position is DAZ figures or bust.

Moving on.

If you want to be positive someone has to ask a few questions like

"What can we do to improve the community, market place or forums" "What can we so in the short term and what will need to be long term." "What improvements would we like but are not Rendo's power to change" (and then try to understand if such change is possible).

For example, I believe, Rendo could improve the forums quickly in the short term by just making the thread update notifications work on a consistent basis. In the longer term they could actually work to ensure that moderation is consistent across the forums and applied the rules fairly.

They could improve the marketplace in the short term by making it a less confusing place. What I don't believe Rendo has in their power is to widen the variety of products to any large degree because the whole market place has become fragmented. When there was general 'go to' figure vendors could spend time creating with the knowledge that there was a good chance of sales. Today there is not just the Poser and Daz users but all the different figures that users support, this has to mean that the size of any possible buying group will diminish with each new figure leading to fewer sales. The time spent making any product will be the same unless you reduce the quality, and the returns will be smaller unless you increase the price, neither of which is going to help much.

There must be many other ideas that could help if only people could put them forward without the fear they are either wasting their time or risking being shot down in flames.

This...

"one thing i find discouraging, coming across thread has an interesting question, the answer is to buy someone's product and the topic seems done. would be more interesting to learn how to do it and wish topics would stay active after a product plug"

And definitely this...

"As soon as Renderosity fixes the freestuff section, I"ll upload a ton of free Poser stuff."

I couldn't even find my freestuff via my profile/freestuff link when I had my things here, very discouraging. And I'm sick of V4/Genesis. But... when hell freezes over.

One big hindrance to us helping each other is the inability to attach files (aside from pictures) to threads and the loss of the ones already here. I know the current recommendation now is to put it in the freestuff but that's a lot of work for a single shader or a quick script to help someone out. You have to save it in the right folder, make a poser thumbnail for it (except scripts), zip it, create a thumbnail for rendo. It has to be a different one because of different size requirements. Then up load it. wait for it to get approved then post the link. And only one per day will be approved. This really hinders someone helping someone else. I know this is something management needs to change, not something we can do anything about but until the change is made, it makes it very cumbersome to help others, limiting the productivity of the forum.

Make bagginsbill Webmaster of Renderosity. Would solve all of Renderositys web problems ,emails ,freestuff ,search etc etc.

1.Marketplace variety. Many buyers want the expanded DAZ genesis 3 figures. 2.Many buyers also want continued support for V4 and are dispointed in the lower volume of products (myself included) 3.Forum members want more input and more useful information supplied inside of the forums such as new shaders, tips and tricks ... found unusual items. Challenges. 4.All users want more of a voice.

1.If buyers want G3 then get DAZ Studio but that don't help Poser forums. 2.Just half to accept the fact V4 is becoming obsolete ,like truespace and softimage. 3.having links to tutorials here would be helpful. prizes for winner of challenges is always a motivator. 4.no doubt. having your threads locked n making a conversation imposable .probably not the best way to get CGI Artist capable of making Poser characters to make Poser characters.

Look at all the CGI App's and all the forums and gallery's. CGI is ART .The busiest CGI sites have the best CGI Artist. it's that simple. We follow the best period. You want to rule CGI and have the busiest forums and the site with the highest sells. All you half to do is have the best CGI Artist from creations to renders. It's that simple.

Your are telling Rendo to further tweak website code? isn't it already wrecked enough? If this had been a japanese website, somebody would have long ago committed seppuku out of shame.

Please folks, be polite. Consider your words carefully when making a post. Think about how you would feel if your reply was towards you before you click send. We want this to be a positive environment & thread. Fresh page, fresh start. Hugs.

Point1: Meh, I don't really care about this one. lol I have no desire to learn Daz Studio and I can't use Genesis whatever we're up to now because I'm a Poser user.

Point2: I personally want to see V4 support kept alive and more Poser geared items. I would also like to see support for figures like Pauline as well as for Project E when it's released. I fully plan on upgrading to the new Poser as soon as fund allow.

Point3: Yes. More forum threads with how to's & tips & tricks.

What I'd also like to see though is someone who gets V7 (or whatever number we're up to now) to work in Poser. The fracturing market is causing havoc all around and the person that does get the new Genesis figures to work in Poser will make a killing doing so if they release a paid tutorial. I would hope though that they will be kind enough to share their process with the rest of us.

If any skilled Person comes along with a new Poser figure, worth to support, that would be cool. That V4 remote dials carrusel has been going for to long.

Fix your forum software!! LOL Or at least revert it back to around early 2014 when I could easily quote people in bold orange text and embed a youtube videos in my post.

On the larger question of the waning market there is nothing renderosity itself or wistful threads like this one Can do about the unfolding emulsification of the poser content market under the heartless wheels of Technological Progress.

Honestly mates.. Take a good look at the larger world around You and you will see one prevailing trend……UNIFORM STANDARDS.

When was the last time you witnessed A heated , pitched, bloodletting, Mac VS Windows debate?? The matter has been made moot by Apple making all the new Macs into Overpriced intel PC’s purpose built to run the Mac OS & Windows natively. ..UNIFORM STANDARDS. Who seriously believes that Adobe & Autodesk have gone Cloud/subscription for the sole Purpose of defeating the menacing software “pirates“ ? A demographic of users from whom they Were never going to get any actual money under any price structure.

Adobe, Autodesk and even Maxon Can more easily Force everyone to have the latest Version of their software by having the new version upgrades included in their monthly service agreements. This enables third party partners like Microsoft& Apple and plug-in developers to concern themselves only with the latest versions of the CG applications in regards to platform& OS version compatibility ..UNIFORM STANDARDS.

Notice how the new Android,IOS and other Mobile Smart devices no longer Have removable batteries or upgradable external SD storage??. This prevents Austerity minded users from keeping their devices longer than the Average lifespan of a two year contract by just replacing depleted, unrechargable batteries and buying ever larger removable external SD Cards to accommodate their Digital Hoard. This Forces Everyone to buy a new “smart device” Device every 18-24 months while enabling Content developers to build Apps for the latest version of the OS and take advantage Of the newest cutting edge hardware Capabilities….UNIFORM STANDARDS.

DAZ has implemented the same world view in this regard, and only those living in some myopic ,temporal causality loop ,Undisturbed by the unidirectional nature Of the Space time continuim, actually believes any Hype that Daz has embarked Some uniquely personal conspiracy against poser and its users.

.Like it or not, Accept it or not UNIFORM STANDARDS ,do have a deleterious effect on innovation& creative& “niche “variety, But Such UNIFORM STANDARDS have a stabilizing effect on every aspect of primary& secondary market endeavours.

Look at the Disorganized Chaos To be seen in that anachronistic wasteland that was once the poser content& figure market.

Every new “great white hope” female figure being cobbled by various disparate cottage industrialists inspired by their own purient fantasies and a small Clouder of tribal loyalists Who shower them with nothing but oozing praise.

Rigging ??.. “Who cares what content makers already know I have my own exotic “nerdy Mcnerd”technological innovation that will be such as the world Has never seen!!

Compatibility with Standard biped animation Data Such as BVH or poser animated PZ2??

BAHHH!! Who actually cares about Animation other than that blowhard “Woof35whatver,” DaleB and a handful of other outliers Who are possessed of this foolish notion that moving pictures have some validity as a story telling medium.

Here have a look at my shiny new Physically based renderer. What do mean material/ lighting presets?? I will let the Defacto “gurus” of the “Community” teach the hapless Masses How to reverse engineer My brilliant implementation and actually create some usable,non-theoretical renders & animations with my Exciting new innovative Vicky/Daz/Genesis/Iray killer.

UNIFORM STANDARDS??? This is no bloody Mcdonalds.

I'll have a Mcgangbang wolf.

See we hire bagginsbill as Renderosity Webmaster & wolf359 as Uniform Standards coordinator. & where off to a great start of fixing every thing :)