With all the Carrara users wondering when there will be a Carrara version with full Genesis 3 functionality, it is good that someone answers the question.

Well here is the answer: Genesis 3 will never work in Carrara, and here are the reasons:

1. Genesis 3's rigging and weight-mapping/weight-painting system is a new development originally done for Studio.

2. A sensible software project director would want to port the Genesis 3 codebase from studio to Carrara with as little modifications as possible, to minimize maintenance costs down the road.

3. Putting Genesis 3 in Carrara requires a complete rewrite of some critical parts in the Carrara's internals, in such a way that the Genesis 3 codebase remains as unmodified as possible while keeping compatibility with previous versions of Carrara. These rewrites must be done by a seasoned developer very familiar with Carrara's depths.

4. Carrara's developments are done mostly by inexperienced summer intern(s). The proof is that the latest 8.5.1.19 just smells like a sloppy job done by an intern.

Put the points 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 together and it becomes obvious that Genesis 3 in Carrara is a nearly impossible project.

Daz 'may have' some kind of Carrara prototype with some very embryonic Genesis 3 functionality, and Daz 'may have' made this prototype available to private beta-testers, and the private beta-testers 'may have' expressed a positive opinion about it, but that is a very very very loooooooong way to a stable robust production-ready Carrara with Genesis 3 functionality and full compatibility with previous versions of Carrara .

So, in one word: Quit dreaming, because it will never happen.

I guess an important question is if it needs to happen. Could a G3 character be generated in Studio and then imported into C?

Refering to a thread in the DAZ forums, they seem to work on it...

If a G3 character can be "modeled" in Studio and then imported, then there's no changes to C required (or more importantly, no need to pay for a C upgrade).

Then, you could stick with a version of C that you like and not be frustrated about bugs and cost.

Studio is still cheap. Using it as a G3 modeler while leaving C alone seems practical. If a G3 character could be imported, we (the users) can achieve this on our own without a penalty to us.

I'm still waiting for that version of carrara that is fully compatible with G2 lol

Although I'm not familiar with large project code development, the original post sounds convincing. Also, it makes me glad I've stuck with Gen4 characters and all the add-ons I've purchased over the years (many hundreds). I like to do short animations, and while the Genesis characters may look a little better, the story can be told about as well with Gen4, plus all the related Poser format props, scenes, clothes, hair, etc. (about two thousand in my DAZ purchase list, lots more from Rendo and others) that work seamlessly in Carrara.

For animation, the generation 3 is still very nice too, it's my favorite !

1. Depends on what you mean by new - the system used (one weight map per joint, dual quaternions) are not particularly new or exotic in general. I believe it's the dual quaternions that re the main challenge for Carrara

2. Perhaps, but open to interpretation

3. Assertion of unsubstantiated speculation as if it was fact

4. Assertion of insults as if they were facts.

That's not an argument, it's a wild guess in fancy dress.

@RHaseltine:

You guys release a Carrara 8.5.1.19 that wasn't even tested for 15 minutes, and when someone spells it out loud to you, you feel offended?

Are you serious?

The problem with you guys at Daz is that you are so used to be hailed by a Failed-3DSMax-Artist-Turned-Carrara-Cheerleader, that you cannot stand any in-your-face criticism anymore.

Well, I tell you what, instead of letting yourself be influenced by a Know-Nothing-Cheerleader, bring this guy on board: Link and Link. Pay him his ask price, give him a team of competent developers, and let him direct Carrara's developments.

This guy is a first rate artist and he has a clear idea of where to take Carrara. Maybe in a couple of years he will be able to resuscitate Carrara from the Kingdom of the Dead.

"You guys release a Carrara 8.5.1.19 that wasn't even tested for 15 minutes" - that sort of comment, which is utterly untrue, makes it pretty much impossible for anyone to engage in a discussion with you. I am not part of the Carrara development or testing, so there's a limit to what i know (and an even stricter limit to what I can say). Criticism can, and should, be a matter of pointing out issues - once they are wrapped in hyperbole it comes very difficult if not impossible for anyone to respond to them.

RHaseltine posted at 10:02AM Wed, 20 April 2016 - #4266332

Criticism can, and should, be a matter of pointing out issues.

3 years of doing just that has done absolutely no good so your point is?.

RHaseltine posted at 4:08PM Wed, 20 April 2016 - #4266332

"You guys release a Carrara 8.5.1.19 that wasn't even tested for 15 minutes" - that sort of comment, which is utterly untrue, makes it pretty much impossible for anyone to engage in a discussion with you. I am not part of the Carrara development or testing, so there's a limit to what i know (and an even stricter limit to what I can say). Criticism can, and should, be a matter of pointing out issues - once they are wrapped in hyperbole it comes very difficult if not impossible for anyone to respond to them.

I'm pretty sure Doc Bernie knows that his statements are an exaggeration, but I don't know too many people who think the amount of testing was sufficient for that Carrara release.

It's kind of funny, but criticism is not even allowed over at the Daz forum. I know this because you have yanked down enough of my posts to the point where I don't even feel comfortable posting over there, for the most part. I am not alone in that feeling.

So, Bernie is making a criticism, and hyperbole notwithstanding, I agree with him.

I guess we can all agree that we just want a better Carrara going forward, so we can use all the great new sets and characters to make our art?

I fail to see what any of this has to do with The Millennium Cow.

We all know that the only thing holding back Carrara 9 from release is the ongoing effort to get this all important figure ready.

I know many of the World's Governments have attempted to intervene after hearing of The Millennium Cow's GUARANTEE to bring about World Peace, and the Medical Community is lobbying to get The Millennium Cow to do more than merely usher in a cure for cancer and want it to cure ALL known diseases.

There is so much more involved than mere Genocide compatibility that focusing on that (or anything related to any human oriented content) is short-sighted at best, and a waste of time at worst.

Forget Genocide 3 compatibility and focus on the really important stuff!!

Cows.

It's Sockratease's high standards in cow figures and functionality that is stalling the whole thing. Thanks a million, man.

DUDU.car posted at 6:12PM Wed, 20 April 2016 - #4266280

For animation, the generation 3 is still very nice too, it's my favorite !

Yes, I still use a few Gen3 products, like some nice Uzilite items at DAZ for V3 and M3.

I did some experiments with V3 and A3 here, here, and here.

I think the results aren't all that bad. Warning: Images contain mild nudity all within RO's TOS.

At this point having Carrara's native renderer improved so that human skins don't render like cardboard should have priority over a Genesis 3 implementation that will never be finished.

Nice renders Dr.Bernie ! this generation is not dead at all ! Here a very little part of my film in progress, most of the characters are Generation 3 or Lorez : http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php?topic=241.msg1806#msg1806 The ironic thing is that the title of this film is "Genesis" !

dr_bernie posted at 4:35PM Thu, 21 April 2016 - #4266430

I did some experiments with V3 and A3 here, here, and here.

I think the results aren't all that bad. Warning: Images contain mild nudity all within RO's TOS.

At this point having Carrara's native renderer improved so that human skins don't render like cardboard should have priority over a Genesis 3 implementation that will never be finished.

As far as human skin that looks good, I use the Elite skin with GKD Skin Ultimate! It looks REALLY good.

@tsarist:

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

@ DUDU.car:

Woaw man, just woaw! Your work is brilliant. I really like the first clip, but the second clip is simply outstanding. The animation is fluid, very realistic, the render is production-quality and the story is very very good.

You have pushed Carrara to its limits in this project, and you have clearly demonstrated that Genesis 3 functionality isn't necessary at all for a brilliant work. As they say: 'It's not the software, it's the artist'.

I think you, or someone like you, should be put in charge of directing Carrara's developments, because you obviously have a clear idea of Carrara's strengths and weaknesses.

Hi Dr. Bernie! Thank you for this kind of words! I have my workflow to remedy the deficiencies of Carrara, but all is created and rendered in Carrara (I like so much the native renderer). I do not regard myself as an artist, only a great fan of Carrara. Thanks again!

@ DUDU

Excellent work. I agree with Doc Bernie. You have some great shot composition and good pacing.

Thanks Tsarist ! My goal was not to receive congratulations but to show that Carrara can do a real good job on these days. I tried a few other softwares more popular in the cg world and I never found an equivalent in terms of ability to achieve so many things into the same software. I also wanted to prove that we don't need the Genesis generations as Dr Bernie subsequently understood, to make a good work with Carrara. I say that for my own case, but I understand the users who want to make the more realistic pictures as much as possible.

An alembic importer for Carrara would help one could then animate the clothed mesh in DS and render it with all the joint controlled morphs and full HD in Carrara at least. I have done this with exported Carrara scenes in Octane Render Standalone but to be able to use all Carrara's other features it would be better in Carrara itself and the figures would be in effect morphing props and easier to duplicate, maybe use with bullet physics etc too. That said the DS alembic exporter needs work too, it is a flakey thing that fails more than works even under 200 frames.

DUDU.car posted at 1:02AM Fri, 29 April 2016 - #4266451

Nice renders Dr.Bernie ! this generation is not dead at all ! Here a very little part of my film in progress, most of the characters are Generation 3 or Lorez : http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php?topic=241.msg1806#msg1806 The ironic thing is that the title of this film is "Genesis" !

Dudu, wow that's pretty superb, congrats!

It's always more about the craftsman than the tool. Carrara is a pretty nice tool, though. And I say that even though I also use "pro" applications.

Isn't it funny how we keep surprising ourselves with the level of work that we can do!

It is thanks to excellent teachers like you Mark !

Very Nice, Indeed!

dr_bernie posted at 10:07AM Sun, 12 June 2016 - #4266543

@tsarist:

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

@ DUDU.car:

Woaw man, just woaw! Your work is brilliant. I really like the first clip, but the second clip is simply outstanding. The animation is fluid, very realistic, the render is production-quality and the story is very very good.

You have pushed Carrara to its limits in this project, and you have clearly demonstrated that Genesis 3 functionality isn't necessary at all for a brilliant work. As they say: 'It's not the software, it's the artist'.

I think you, or someone like you, should be put in charge of directing Carrara's developments, because you obviously have a clear idea of Carrara's strengths and weaknesses.

Thank you Catherine !

if you own shade 15 (49 bucks) you may succeed with genesis 3 into carrara, exported from DS in fbx format, imported in shade and re-exported in fbx to carrara. It mantains,bones, shapes and the morphs are being changed into bone controllers; what you miss is constraints and topology. Much better than obj format

There you go!

Now, you can even fall back to an earlier version of C if you wanted and not have bugs.

Tanja3D posted at 12:56AM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272433

if you own shade 15 (49 bucks) you may succeed with genesis 3 into carrara, exported from DS in fbx format, imported in shade and re-exported in fbx to carrara. It mantains,bones, shapes and the morphs are being changed into bone controllers; what you miss is constraints and topology. Much better than obj format

can via iClone too for that matter

The whole entire idea behind Carrara is its native support for Daz/Poser contents and some very well-thought scene building tools. Other than that Carrara doesn't have anything jaw-dropping to offer.

Yeah, yeah, some will argue that Carrara has trees and landscapes and dynamic hairs. My response is that pre-made morphable trees and landscapes are a dime a dozen, and if I want to make an animation I will use short hairs for my actors and actresses, so I don't have to mess with dynamic hairs to begin with.

Going the Shade route to bring-in Genesis 3 into Carrara might work, but then why not stay with Shade for the entire project? I looked at Shade 12 Professional a couple of years ago. It is a bit quirky, but its renderer is top-notch, as pro as it can get.

Another venue that I am exploring right now is Daz Studio to Cheetah3D. If you are on a Mac, this could be a very worthwhile pipeline to consider. Cheetah3D's upcoming version 7, judging by the public beta, is a feature-packed 3D app , and its new super-fast renderer gives you caustics that almost match top-of-the-line professional renderers.

I guess I'm a little confused. If all you want to do is render Daz content, why isn't Daz studio a passable option?

unfortunately the Shade basic version isn't suitable for animations (render too slow and the sunlight system is worst than carrara one), dunno the Pro though (high price)

Kixum posted at 4:47AM Sun, 19 June 2016 - #4272977

I guess I'm a little confused. If all you want to do is render Daz content, why isn't Daz studio a passable option?

Very good question.

I want to go way beyond rendering contents.

I want to experiment with dazzling special FX'es, physics and get very high quality renders at a blink of an eye. Daz Studio and Carrara are unfit. for this kind of work.

Possible candidates:

Houdini: At $ 199.- per year it's a steal of a deal, but it's too hard to learn. It's for pros, not hobbyists.

Cinema4D: Excellent package but you need the full studio version - a $3800 deal - to do FX'es and particles and physics and things like that. That is way out of my price range.

Strata 3D: Excellent package. Relatively easy to learn. It has a $19.- monthly subscription plan that you can cancel at anytime. It is more suitable for a photoshop / illustarator / Strata3D pipeline, but it might work with Daz/Poser content. It has an excellent modeler too, in the Hexagon / Silo league.

Cheetan3D: At $99.- it's a literally jaw-dropping deal. It can be viewed as C4D's little brother. It has a particularly well implemented Bullet physics engine with real time simulations, real time particles, a modeler that almost matches Hexagon and Silo features, 2 built-in renderers one of which uses Intel's Embree and is super-fast and, from what I have seen so far, its render quality is superb.

I am right now evaluating Cheetah3D for some possible hobbyist projects. From what I have seen so far it beats Carrara hands-down in almost every respect. Its only 'weakness' is that it is Mac only, so Windows users are left in the cold.

More on Cheetah3D later.

I wanted to bring back to life this old thread about why a Carrara9 with support for the newer Genesis3 and Genesis8 characters will never ever happen.

P.S. Add Genesis 8 to the title to read: 'Why I Think Genesis 3 And Genesis 8 In Carrara Will Never Ever Happen...'

we already have a way to get Genesis 3 and 8 into Carrara 8.5 actually but you would have not bothered following Misty's threads on this very forum or trying it so why am I bothering discussing it.

dr_bernie posted at 10:43AM Sun, 29 July 2018 - #4272983

Kixum posted at 4:47AM Sun, 19 June 2016 - #4272977

I guess I'm a little confused. If all you want to do is render Daz content, why isn't Daz studio a passable option?

Very good question.

I want to go way beyond rendering contents.

I want to experiment with dazzling special FX'es, physics and get very high quality renders at a blink of an eye. Daz Studio and Carrara are unfit. for this kind of work.

Possible candidates:

Houdini: At $ 199.- per year it's a steal of a deal, but it's too hard to learn. It's for pros, not hobbyists.

Cinema4D: Excellent package but you need the full studio version - a $3800 deal - to do FX'es and particles and physics and things like that. That is way out of my price range.

Strata 3D: Excellent package. Relatively easy to learn. It has a $19.- monthly subscription plan that you can cancel at anytime. It is more suitable for a photoshop / illustarator / Strata3D pipeline, but it might work with Daz/Poser content. It has an excellent modeler too, in the Hexagon / Silo league.

Cheetan3D: At $99.- it's a literally jaw-dropping deal. It can be viewed as C4D's little brother. It has a particularly well implemented Bullet physics engine with real time simulations, real time particles, a modeler that almost matches Hexagon and Silo features, 2 built-in renderers one of which uses Intel's Embree and is super-fast and, from what I have seen so far, its render quality is superb.

I am right now evaluating Cheetah3D for some possible hobbyist projects. From what I have seen so far it beats Carrara hands-down in almost every respect. Its only 'weakness' is that it is Mac only, so Windows users are left in the cold.

More on Cheetah3D later.

Funny, you state that DS and Carrara are unfit for your needs, but yet you return here again, and again, and again, dissing DAZ and Carrara. Maybe it's time to get on with your life and your pursuit of what ever it is in 3D you want to do. If you insist on returning here over and over, maybe you should also show what you can do with these other apps, not what others have done. All I see from you is a lot of talk, and very little, actually almost no examples of what you can do, other than read marketing hype and reference others work(s). If you were to provide a real alternative to Carrara and DS that can actually use DAZ3D content as easily as DS and Carrara, I would be interested, but so far your posts have been just digs mostly on Carrara, and some what on DS, disguised as sharing viable alternatives (that really aren't).

As far a Genesis 3/8 in Carrara, there are ways to get the figures into Carrara, just no official support from DAZ3D. The same can be said for Maya, iClone, Blender, Shade 3D (which you make indication that you like a lot, yet example results from** you** are quite scarce as well), etc.. But yes, you can get G3/G8 into Carrara. There are actually several different ways to do it .... but I don't think you really care about that, you seem to just be here to get a rise out of Carrara users.

Seriously "dude" (to use one of your favorite terms from a recent troll...ummm....I mean post), I do think you need to move on, it's beginning to look very sad that you can't let go.

@ DustRider:

My goal in this thread is (or was) to explain why, IN THE OPINION OF THIS VERY EXPERIENCED SOFTWARE DEVELOPER AND DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, integrating the Genesis 3 and 8 code into Carrara's existing - and aging - infrastructure would be very difficult, possibly even impossible.

Please read through my posts above and explain what part(s) of them are signs of trolling.

I like Bryce for what it does. If anyone would like to use Bryce for landscapes and then bring them to Carrara, the late great Cripeman has an excellent tutorial. https://youtu.be/5b9c4CW2c18

dr_bernie, you come in here and spout off about what other software can do. Someone complains, and you tell them to read your posts, etc. Why not just stay away?

Tony_Stark posted at 3:46PM Thu, 06 September 2018 - #4335811

dr_bernie, you come in here and spout off about what other software can do. Someone complains, and you tell them to read your posts, etc. Why not just stay away?

all I see is

Heads Up! You currently have this user ignored. To view this post you must unignore the user.

was that a fly buzzing?