Hello all, this is my first post, though I've been harvesting a lot of good advice from this forum

for quite some time while learning to handle Poser. By now I've reached a skill level on which I

could use some serious critique. I thought maybe uploading to the gallery could bring me

some. Two issues made me drop the idea.

First of all there's the copyright thing. Now and then I use models downloaded from some

freebie site. Over time I've discovered that allegedly free models may very well be not free at

all but ripped from some commercial site and republished in obj or 3ds format, with or without

original texture. There is no way to to know beforehand what's legit. In my experience "free"

models of high quality are suspicious, but how can you tell about all those that are good

enough but don't stand out? Would "good faith" protect me from litigations?

Secondly I studied the gallery rules and compared them to those of other venues, and they all

look forbiddingly draconian. I realize that gallery rules have to be based on a cultural and legal

lowest common denominator. But quite a few of us are raised in a less morally overheated

cultural milieu, where the image of a naked body, be it an adult or a child, is not considered

inherently erotic; where likewise it's recognized that an overly violent or seemingly

pornographic scene may actually be meant to convey something else than what meets the eye.

For us, adapting to a less allowing mindset is not entirely trivial.

I don't do porn but I do nudity, with explicit eroticism when called for though rarely, and I've

done some borderline sadistic violence for exploration's sake. I understand by deduction that

some of my scenes may be off limits but I don't quite see why, and the innocent nudity and

modest gore of gallery images don't really show where the line is drawn - or do they? I hope

not. So, then, what can I upload - or rather, how can I best calibrate my sense of international

decency and protocol?

And apologies for the lengthy post.

Just read our TOS .. on my tablet so can't link .. but that will give our guidelines for nudity. As for pirated content if you stick to the primary sites like here you can avoid any confusion.

The link to the TOS is here

There's a long thread going on over at SM forums ( https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/307/sticking-it-to-the-poser-thieves-freeloaders/38 ) which covers much of what you said about pirated content.

There are a lot of greedy, sleazy, self serving, immature, selfish, uneducated, entitled punks and kids out there who both profit from stolen content, and use it without paying for it because they think that others should work for free.

I would not let either of these concerns prevent you from posting to the gallery with the good intention of seeking critique and developing your skills.

Regarding 'decency' - yes, there are well-intentioned limits on this site. It's not a cultural thing - nor is it directly related to eroticism. There are other sites with fewer restrictions, or in some cases (it seems) none at all, where some of the fantasised acts openly portrayed would be considered abhorrent in any culture. Taken together, it's all rather arbitrary and unprincipled - that is, until it comes to legislation concerning such things as pornographic images portraying children.

So for progressive work that would challenge the limits of this site, I think you'd be wise to find another place where it is acceptable, rather than waste your time and raise your blood pressure campaigning for it to be permitted here.

Regarding the gallery, when in doubt ask the admin. I had a scene in a story I posted that I wasn't sure if I could post but was integral to the story so I asked about it and was told it was fine.

DeviantArt has very liberal posting rules. Might wanna check them out if the rules here are too strict for you. I can't give ya the link due to the TOS, but you can Google it :).

Laurie

Best way to ensure your content is not pirated. Only get free items from known sites. Our free stuff and sharecg are safe bets. When in doubt sitemail an admin. Content creators work very hard on the items in our stores.

there are also plenty of legitimate vendors here and DAZ/SM that have their own web pages that have free stuff on them, those are safe bets.

Wow, that's a lot of advice, but please don't misread me. I'm not advocating more liberal rules, I'm trying to get a grip on what's permissible.

@Boni: I did study the TOS and found them intimidating, which I said, actually. I take your answer to be that the gallery serves as its own guideline, which is what I wanted to know. Thanks. As for purchasing a high quality prop for the occasional scene filler or background completion it's not always economically defensible. The same goes for acquiring reasonably powerful software to model your own props, while learning Blender wouldn't be temporally defensible for just one scene. I'll admit it would be a good investment for the future though.

@kittykat98 (and ghostship2): I fully agree with your opinion of pirates, at least when it comes to CG models - how many vendors have the backing of the likes of Sony and Warner? Funny, though, that this forum more than once has adviced people to go hunting for freebies when commercial sites can't provide them. The legitimate pages don't meet all needs.

@LaurieA: I've checked them out. Not much of a difference. Not to "upload ... any material that is obscene, offensive, blasphemous, pornographic, unlawful,... abusive, harmful, ... defamatory, libelous, vulgar, illegal or otherwise objectionable" is impossible to interpret, especially the ominous last part.

@ IsaoShi: Of course I have no intention to campaign for anything or to challenge any limits. I just want to understand what the rules really mean so I can adapt without too much reckoning beforehand. The alternative sites you hint at, well, I've looked at some of them and I don't like the company there. As you say, they're "rather arbitrary and undisciplined", which in some cases is a clear understatment. I can't conceive of them as serious. And by the way, as a winter season hobbyist CG "artist" I don't aspire to do "progressive" stuff, whatever that means, just to realize as closely as possible ideas that come to my mind. It shouldn't be too much trouble to rework some of them for uploading. It's all about composition and technique, not image content.

One thing you can always do Krikon is to email a smaller version of the image or a link if you have it online to one of the moderators or coordinators if you think the image may violate the TOS. When a member does that it's brought up for review by everyone and we can let you know, without doubt, if the image is or is not within the TOS. If you read through the TOS and the nudity guidelines you'll see that nudity in general is quite fine. And while there will always be grey areas, it's pretty detailed. For example: (and I invite other mods and coordinators to add to this if I've missed any points of view)

No Posting Unacceptable Images or Writing Themes:
This includes anything limited by the TOS such as rape, torture, libel, etc.

No Rape [actual or implied]
While implied could mean different things to different people and while one could claim they didn't mean to imply that their character is committing rape, the general idea is based on what the image shows. If it looks like rape or if the storyline says it is or calls for it then it's not allowed. Since showing sex acts isn't allowed anyway this rarely is an issue.

No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure]
If a character is obviously in pain and it's against their will or if the story that accompanies it states it as so then it isn't allowed. But a character getting shot, for example, wouldn't fall under "torture" although it could fall under "violence" and require the violence flag.

No Sexual acts [no depictions of sexual intercourse - between humanoids/non-humanoids/animals - no masturbation]
While fairly self explanatory, sometimes this comes into question. You have to see the following two rules as well, no implied acts, no obvious arousal etc. Basically no touching. The word "implied" can also refer to what the viewers see in 2D. While you could technically create an image where there is no contact actually happening in the 3D scene, if the 2D final render implies it then it falls under the TOS as a violation.

No Physical arousal [This includes but is not exclusive to: no images of an erect penis/ no images showing the inner portion of the vulva or vaginal area]
Another one where you can always request assistance if your scene might fall under this rule.

No Explicit sexual content [No manipulation of breasts/nipples/ no sexual situations/ no 'implied" sexual acts/ no extreme or explicit S&M bondage situations/ no lewd or obscene sexual references]
Basically anything you may see in a porn mag but not including an innocent sensual nude scene, provided the hands are chaste in actuality or implying anything not allowed.

No Genital contact with ANY object, other than sitting or clothing.
One could argue that while a couple are close enough to touch but not show actual sex, if it appears they are close enough to touch it's not allowed as it falls under "implied". The "sitting, or clothing" define the restrictions on genital contact.

No Child Nudity. Please see the guidelines here.
This is the one area that appears to have a grey area the size of Texas. One can argue that a fairy or other fantasy creature is hundreds of years old but the bottom line is that if the character has the appearance of a child under the age of 18 then it's considered a child character. An innocent image of a baby also falls under this rule. There must be a diaper or covering of some sort. While there is nothing wrong with a image of a baby in a scene the line simply has to be drawn somewhere and thus the rule on even depictions of newborns.

Hopefully this will give you an idea of what we look for if an image comes under review or is reported. It's really quite technical if you look through it point by point and if you're unsure, you can always ask a Moderator or a Coordinator. We are listed at the top of each forum, depending on the gallery or forum we monitor. And if for some reason one of us contacts a member about missing a nudity, violence or language flag in either the galleries or the forums or if an image had to be removed from the gallery, we aren't being militant about it, just letting you know. It doesn't become an issue unless a member is deliberately thumbing their nose at the rules with multiple violations and we're always willing to explain and discuss issues.

I look forward to seeing your work in the galleries, and welcome to Renderosity. :)

If a freebie is being given away by a vendor that actually sells through a site, there's a good chance they've been vetted by that site.

But if a freebie is being given away by someone who has never sold anything, or, they are not extremely well known, then you are taking a chance.

Some sites let you upload stuff and give it away, and do no checking of content at all. Those are the ones that are more risky. For example, one of my commercial models was being given away on one of the sites mentioned here (not rendo of course) as supposedly safe. I only found out about it because a member of the community contacted me about it. So well known free sites are not always risk free.

"But if a freebie is being given away by someone who has never sold anything, or, they are not extremely well known, then you are taking a chance."

paranoid much? there are plenty of ppl that don't sell and give away their own work for free, and for the first time. just cos you got stung, it does not mean everyone is dishonest and there's no need to paint everyone with the same brush.

I give away freebies all the time, but I make every single one and have for years. I'm not sure what your point is chikako :) It's mostly only the generic 3D model sites that I've found questionable freebies frequently, but not Poser/DS freebie sites so much.

Laurie

LaurieA posted at 12:18PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272654

I give away freebies all the time, but I make every single one and have for years. I'm not sure what your point is chikako :) It's mostly only the generic 3D model sites that I've found questionable freebies frequently, but not Poser/DS freebie sites so much.

"taking a chance" doesn't mean "obviously a pirate" ;-)

If you are getting something for free, you simply cannot take it at face value that its safe without considering who uploaded it. If someone has been a community member for a very long time (like you or me), chances are pretty good that they understand copyright and don't want to lose their membership. I don't want to summon 'ye moderators' by mentioning specific other sites, but not all are as trustworthy as Rendo.

The harsh realty is that the Freebie sites or freebie sections of commercial sites are NOT the true Distribution points for "pirated", unlicensed Digital content.

And anyone who thinks otherwise is poorly informed IMHO or just plain Delusional in believing that some toothless threat of cancelling site/forum memberships etc. or casting suspicious eyes on users you dont "know" (LOL!!), is somehow addressing the issue.

Movies ,Music,Comic books,Software (including entire OS installs) TV shows(Broadcast& Cable)..anything digital.

ALL are Distributed on GLOBAL BITTORENT networks. The only literal "solution" would be to build a massive Draconian Faraday Cage around your country blocking all external communications including Satellite transmissions.

Not a likely scenario.

Now if your livelyhood is affected by this reality I suggest leaving the realm of Digital goods and deal with only physical products.

What sprung up and poked me in the eye was the notion that "if it's high quality it can't be free - or if it's free it must be stolen"

er...

Tell me I misread that bit...

Yeah, I guess all my Freestuff must be shite, too. And Mask's guitars. How deluded I have been, saying they are the best guitars anywhere. How could I be so stupid?

What a fucking world.

TrekkieGrrrl posted at 2:44PM Wed, 22 June 2016 - #4273242

What sprung up and poked me in the eye was the notion that "if it's high quality it can't be free - or if it's free it must be stolen"

er...

Tell me I misread that bit...

No, no you didn't. You read that correctly.

TrekkieGrrrl posted at 10:40AM Wed, 22 June 2016 - #4273242

What sprung up and poked me in the eye was the notion that "if it's high quality it can't be free - or if it's free it must be stolen"

er...

Tell me I misread that bit...

Yeah, I choked on that one a little bit too. I'm rather fond of my freebies (and yours!)....LOL. I suppose downloading freebies is always a risk, and one a person has to weigh against the advantages I guess. Caveat emptor...