I'm tired of trying to wade through all the opinions on the news sites, and since I know a lot of people here are from the British Isles, the UK, England, or whatever you guys are calling yourself today... Let's have it. Why leave the EU?

The news stories cover it quite comprehensively

Autonomy from German hegemony (they dominate EU policy ),

Oh and the migrant crisis is destroying unity in Europe anyway.

If there leaving Europe ,where are they going ?

Some people believe we will be better off (financially and socially) out of the EU. I don't.

My Spider sense tells me this thread will be locked very soon.

You could just as easily have asked, Why stay in the EU? Its hardly a question with a simply one line answer. To gain any form of understanding you would need to look into the politics of the UK quite deeply, along with understanding how different people feel towards the subject and why opinions can differ just depending on where you are located.

tparo posted at 6:12AM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272717

You could just as easily have asked, Why stay in the EU? Its hardly a question with a simply one line answer. To gain any form of understanding you would need to look into the politics of the UK quite deeply, along with understanding how different people feel towards the subject and why opinions can differ just depending on where you are located.

I could just as easily have asked "why is the sun hot?" Just not the question I asked. I wanted the opinions of people I interact with on the internet whose life would be affected by the actual decision. Is that a problem or something?

I don't think this is a problem Clark, but there are just as varied opinions as with US politics and religion. It could get heated and folks are a little wary. Your concern is sincere, I'm sure ... the answer even for those you consider friends here on the web is far from an easy one.

EClark1894 posted at 1:27PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272720

tparo posted at 6:12AM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272717

You could just as easily have asked, Why stay in the EU? Its hardly a question with a simply one line answer. To gain any form of understanding you would need to look into the politics of the UK quite deeply, along with understanding how different people feel towards the subject and why opinions can differ just depending on where you are located.

I could just as easily have asked "why is the sun hot?" Just not the question I asked. I wanted the opinions of people I interact with on the internet whose life would be affected by the actual decision. Is that a problem or something?

To be honest my political opinions and views aren't really any of your business and this isn't really the place for it, I get quite enough when I turn the telly on without it being on the forums I frequent. I don't come here asking about things in the US political arena that leave me baffled. Its the sort of question that could be construed as trying to create an argumentative atmosphere here - which I thought they were trying to avoid.

tparo posted at 1:40PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272728

EClark1894 posted at 1:27PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272720

tparo posted at 6:12AM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272717

You could just as easily have asked, Why stay in the EU? Its hardly a question with a simply one line answer. To gain any form of understanding you would need to look into the politics of the UK quite deeply, along with understanding how different people feel towards the subject and why opinions can differ just depending on where you are located.

I could just as easily have asked "why is the sun hot?" Just not the question I asked. I wanted the opinions of people I interact with on the internet whose life would be affected by the actual decision. Is that a problem or something?

To be honest my political opinions and views aren't really any of your business and this isn't really the place for it, I get quite enough when I turn the telly on without it being on the forums I frequent. I don't come here asking about things in the US political arena that leave me baffled. Its the sort of question that could be construed as trying to create an argumentative atmosphere here - which I thought they were trying to avoid.

Well, yeah but...

There's no obligation to reply, read or even open the thread. Same for any thread anywhere, in fact. Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head regarding forum posts, AFAIK.

It's also perfectly obvious from the title exactly what the thread is about, which is something that other, on topic threads could learn from. :)

I thought politics were banned in this forum?

I quote

" Political/Religious Viewpoints. Since discussions of a Religious and Political nature tend to be heated because of varying viewpoints, we feel that as an artists' forum, there is no place for these types of discussions. Insulting someone’s religion or speaking about political views in a negative manner is not tolerated anywhere on our site."

Also the discussion has been paused in light of the brutal murder of MP Jo Cox yesterday.

I think if this discussion is to be allowed, we too should observe this pause as well.

LOL I didn't know what Brexit mint.

I don't watch the news.

Anyways EClark1894 it's always about $$$

Well, the last time I asked that a thread I had started be locked, it was already contentious and I was flatly told no. I might even still have the sitemail. That said, feel free to lock the thread if you wish. I had already been cutting back on participating in this forum. Some people are just intent on making that decision easier for me.

RorrKonn posted at 10:37AM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272734

LOL I didn't know what Brexit mint.

I don't watch the news.

Anyways EClark1894 it's always about $$$

Thanks for the response, guys. I was just curious what some actual Brits I 'knew' thought of the situation, and this was the only place i know to get that answer. Didn't mean to force anyone in here at gunpoint to answer.

Tparo, since for some inexplicable reason most of my posts seem to piss you off, I wholeheartedly INVITE you to put me on permanent ignore. As I have no intention of wishing to cause you any distress, discomfort, or anger.

That's up to you, but we're supposed to follow the rules. Not the ones we pick to follow, but the ones in the Tos. But go ahead and pick and choose which ones you want to follow.

Tos says no politics. shrug

But tell you what. If we can pick to ignore this rule, then I pick to ignore the links rule. Deal?

Technically the 'no politics' bit is under the heading of "Harassment" and not under the "No Posting" section. I'd have to ask an admin but I'd say since the thread was titled "OT" and as long as it doesn't get heated a simple discussion/question isn't a TOS violation.

(and my cat pics are on standby )

I think Lauries cat knows about as much as anyone else as to what will happen if the UK leaves the UK.

I found it funny when the Leave camp said they want PM Cameron (Stay) to negotiate the exit- I would be telling them 'It's your mess, you clean it up'

Kendra posted at 4:42PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272782

Technically the 'no politics' bit is under the heading of "Harassment" and not under the "No Posting" section. I'd have to ask an admin but I'd say since the thread was titled "OT" and as long as it doesn't get heated a simple discussion/question isn't a TOS violation.

(and my cat pics are on standby )

Here's the problem, Kendra. I don't live in Great Britain, not a member of the EU, and most importantly, don't know why it's such a big deal. So I asked people where I knew there were people who post that were British. Now I could just as easily have asked why Aussies love Vegemite so much and started a row with some folks.

Also cat pics will cause dog fights.

@ Khai - Yep, you're right about the pause and I agree we should observe it. Note I only said what I believed, without going into the why and how.

@ Kendra I was once told that even making a comment about someone - a politician - was against the TOS. It seems the application of the rule is inconsistent at best and could be seen to be unevenly applied according to the political inclinations of whoever happens to be enforcing the rule at the time. In truth, I don't see how my comment comparing G W Bush to an asshole could be regarded as harassment of anyone here, and I'm sure W has had worse than that said about him on several occasions. In case you think my comment could have been construed as harassment of someone here, the context was, they were looking for a W figure/morph and I said there was an asshole prop/morph over at Rotica.

So yes, the rules are definitely inconsistently applied.

All of which is part of the reason why, in my earlier post, I reckoned the thread would soon be locked.

It could still be. And everyone will have their perception of this type of situation but that's why we discuss and an admin has final say. And this type of thing can be very dynamic. As this thread goes, the biggest argument is not the thread topic but as it relates to the TOS.

And don't forget the language flag. :)

John Fogerty and Foo Fighters - Fortunate Son (Studio Version)

The Babys union jacks

This is about my extent of politics knowledge.They make cool songs.

I belong to the Anarchy party.

but politics n religion have inspired a lot of visual n musical Art.

RorrKonn posted at 6:46PM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272815

John Fogerty and Foo Fighters - Fortunate Son (Studio Version)

The Babys union jacks

This is about my extent of politics knowledge.They make cool songs.

I belong to the Anarchy party.

but politics n religion have inspired a lot of visual n musical Art.

They also cause a raft of shitstorms which is why most forums don't allow them ;).

I look at it like this: what I believe in is no one else's fucking business. Another country's politics are none of my fucking business. Period. ;)

Laurie

To be fair perhaps clarke did not realize that for Brits this issue may be as divisive As DAZ genesis VS Poser pro& co.

But also if one is bored enough to ask about this EuroZone issue in a poser forum and proceed to argue with the various respondents over the permissability of the topic. Then a Google search For "Brexit,Vote, British Citizens. etc, might have been a better use of ones time IMHO.

wolf359 posted at 2:20PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272876

To be fair perhaps clarke did not realize that for Brits this issue may be as divisive As DAZ genesis VS Poser pro& co.

I think for most of us Brits there is just confusion, which is maybe why this thread was started. Although there may be pluses and minuses to both sides, the effect of staying or leaving will have a different impact on different people. None of the politicians on either side have done a decent job of convincing people. This has been on the table for years and yet they just contradict whatever the other side says, no balanced views on the pluses and minuses. I don't trust anything that any of them says. I can understand why EClarke was asking other people what they thought. My opinion, whatever happens there's going to be a mess to clean up afterwards.

wolf359 posted at 5:36PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272876

To be fair perhaps clarke did not realize that for Brits this issue may be as divisive As DAZ genesis VS Poser pro& co.

But also if one is bored enough to ask about this EuroZone issue in a poser forum and proceed to argue with the various respondents over the permissability of the topic. Then a Google search For "Brexit,Vote, British Citizens. etc, might have been a better use of ones time IMHO.

I've stated my intentions several times already in this thread. I've not made any threats, extortion attempts or any attempts to force anyone to open the thread, let alone answer the question if they are not so inclined. In fact, so far, all I've received are a bunch of responses that actually don't really answer the question I did ask.

I don't post here that often anymore, because usually it's not very productive. And the reason why has very little to do with the topics, whether permitted by TOS or otherwise.

EClark1894 posted at 6:11PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272939

wolf359 posted at 5:36PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272876

To be fair perhaps clarke did not realize that for Brits this issue may be as divisive As DAZ genesis VS Poser pro& co.

But also if one is bored enough to ask about this EuroZone issue in a poser forum and proceed to argue with the various respondents over the permissability of the topic. Then a Google search For "Brexit,Vote, British Citizens. etc, might have been a better use of ones time IMHO.

I've stated my intentions several times already in this thread. I've not made any threats, extortion attempts or any attempts to force anyone to open the thread, let alone answer the question if they are not so inclined. In fact, so far, all I've received are a bunch of responses that actually don't really answer the question I did ask.

I don't post here that often anymore, because usually it's not very productive. And the reason why has very little to do with the topics, whether permitted by TOS or otherwise.

We know ,We know it's the broken eBots . ;)

oh and since where on the subject of politics & conspiracy's.

I Think DAZ bolt Renderosity like they did run time and broke the bots on purpose to kill Renderosity ;)

RorrKonn posted at 8:39PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272941

EClark1894 posted at 6:11PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272939

wolf359 posted at 5:36PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272876

To be fair perhaps clarke did not realize that for Brits this issue may be as divisive As DAZ genesis VS Poser pro& co.

But also if one is bored enough to ask about this EuroZone issue in a poser forum and proceed to argue with the various respondents over the permissability of the topic. Then a Google search For "Brexit,Vote, British Citizens. etc, might have been a better use of ones time IMHO.

I've stated my intentions several times already in this thread. I've not made any threats, extortion attempts or any attempts to force anyone to open the thread, let alone answer the question if they are not so inclined. In fact, so far, all I've received are a bunch of responses that actually don't really answer the question I did ask.

I don't post here that often anymore, because usually it's not very productive. And the reason why has very little to do with the topics, whether permitted by TOS or otherwise.

We know ,We know it's the broken eBots . ;)

oh and since where on the subject of politics & conspiracy's.

I Think DAZ bolt Renderosity like they did run time and broke the bots on purpose to kill Renderosity ;)

I'm not a huge a DAZ fan, but I think I'll give them a pass on trying to take down Renderosity.

EClark1894 posted at 11:44PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272953

RorrKonn posted at 8:39PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272941

EClark1894 posted at 6:11PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272939

wolf359 posted at 5:36PM Sat, 18 June 2016 - #4272876

To be fair perhaps clarke did not realize that for Brits this issue may be as divisive As DAZ genesis VS Poser pro& co.

But also if one is bored enough to ask about this EuroZone issue in a poser forum and proceed to argue with the various respondents over the permissability of the topic. Then a Google search For "Brexit,Vote, British Citizens. etc, might have been a better use of ones time IMHO.

I've stated my intentions several times already in this thread. I've not made any threats, extortion attempts or any attempts to force anyone to open the thread, let alone answer the question if they are not so inclined. In fact, so far, all I've received are a bunch of responses that actually don't really answer the question I did ask.

I don't post here that often anymore, because usually it's not very productive. And the reason why has very little to do with the topics, whether permitted by TOS or otherwise.

We know ,We know it's the broken eBots . ;)

oh and since where on the subject of politics & conspiracy's.

I Think DAZ bolt Renderosity like they did run time and broke the bots on purpose to kill Renderosity ;)

I'm not a huge a DAZ fan, but I think I'll give them a pass on trying to take down Renderosity.

you know what they say $$$'s war .LOL

Avenged Sevenfold - This Means War (Official Music Video)

Wait till after we've all voted this Thursday. Give it a week and then no-one will be talking about it.

Talking about what? :D

There you are - you've forgotten it already!

The time is 3.15pm. I have it written on this bit of paper.

"Brexit"- noun: The palm full of crackers/peanuts etc etc that you shove into your mouth for Breakfast as you hastily Exit your Flat to avoid getting sacked from your job after a final warning about your tardiness.

A political thread lasting 2 pages on Renderosity. Has to be a record.

Come Join The Murder - The White Buffalo & The Forest Rangers (Lyrics)

wolf359 posted at 6:55PM Sun, 19 June 2016 - #4273056

"Brexit"- noun: The palm full of crackers/peanuts etc etc that you shove into your mouth for Breakfast as you hastily Exit your Flat to avoid getting sacked from your job after a final warning about your tardiness.

LOL :)

Only politicians care. They have nothing else to do with their 100.000 paycheck.

For the average UK? Nothing will change, in, or out.

The various campaigners have asked for a more respectful, sober tone to the debate/discussion/comment, so...

Dear Mr Farage

Please, please, pretty please go and fuck yourself with something sharp, you racist scumbag.

Best regards

Paul A Bellamy

Hey, I said "please".

wolf359 posted at 2:23AM Wed, 22 June 2016 - #4272694

The news stories cover it quite comprehensively

Autonomy from German hegemony (they dominate EU policy ),

If Germany would dominate the EU they could work much more efficient believe me. You seem to be not aware about how the EU works: Portugal or Belgium have the same voting power as Germany or France. It's the media who zooms in on Chancellor Merkel and what she or the Finance Minister of Germany say.

I think it doesn't matter that much whether the UK leaves the EU or not. There is still a Germany which has the biggest economy in Europe and sells more cars. And there a still refugees who try to come into the UK. This referendum will not change the facts.

SamTherapy posted at 9:53PM Tue, 21 June 2016 - #4273253

The various campaigners have asked for a more respectful, sober tone to the debate/discussion/comment, so...

Dear Mr Farage

Please, please, pretty please go and fuck yourself with something sharp, you racist scumbag.

Best regards

Paul A Bellamy

Hey, I said "please".

now Sam quit beating around the bush n tell us how you really feel ;)

@EClark1894 I saw your thread about Brexit and think some here are being incredibly rude, and unaware of the seriousness of the situation. As a Brit myself, I can only give you the real picture, what is really going on here and what the majority of British people actually think.

Believe it or not, if you were watching the BBC in England you would be forgiven for not even knowing about Brexit. The BBC are part of the media that had been covering-up disgraceful behaviour and brain-washing the British public for decades now. It is in the best interest of the BBC that we stay in the EU. In fact, the only people who benefit from staying are certain media groups, big businesses, and banks. They are doing everything in their power to brain-wash the British people to vote remain.

Brexit is all about the desperate need to have our country back. We believe that England should be run by us, not by corrupt career politicians in Belgium. That alone should tell you that remain is wrong, because no country should be controlled by another country. We cannot control our borders no matter what they tell you, and the Eurocrats in Brussels, Belguim, control our laws, our spending. England does not need to be part of Europe, we're talking about the empire-building experts "England" here, not a third world country. The EU is something that worked for a while, but has mutated into a dictatorship whereby we now have no control over anything. Another massive problem is EU regulations. This stifles the birth of new business because the sole purpose of the EU from a trade standpoint, is to create so many rules, regulations, laws, that small businesses simply give-up before they even get started. This is intentional, big business lobby in the EU constantly to make sure that they have no competition and usually backfires on every budding business in Europe as a result.

The voting in the UK is completely corrupt, to the point they are letting in as many immigrants as possible and giving them voting cards they are not entitled to. This is because the PM knows they will vote for him. It's actually pretty simple when it comes down to the politics of it all. It is exactly as Nigel Farage has pointed out, and in my opinion, British people who vote to remain are either traitors of their country, brain-washed by the BBC/Media, or both.

British fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters, but the non-EU county opposite, is allowed to come over into our waters and fish. Does that sound right to you, or corrupt? The British people are being governed by people in Belguim, does that sound right to you? The corrupt politicians of the EU are not held accountable for anything they do, it is power without accountability. That means they can, and do, whatever they like without recourse. Does that sound right to you?

You wanted an opinion from a Brit, and it's nice to see people such as yourself who desire a civil discussion on the matter, so I hope this has helped shed some facts (you are free to research these facts). I could tell you things about the EU and the media that would make you want to be sick, and as much as I want to post them, it's not for this forum. We need to leave, and we need Nigel Farage as PM of England. Farage is the only hope the British people have of living in a fair and functioning democracy no matter what others might tell you, and Brexit is the first step towards that happening - we MUST leave.

It's clear from the videos on YouTube that despite the BBC's best efforts to brain-wash the British public, we are massively in favour of Brexit. So that's good, we want to leave, no matter where I go, who I speak to, they all support leave. However, the British Government and the EU is highly corrupt. Their salaries depend on remaining and it is highly likely they will announce a remain even though the vote will be massively in favour of leave. If this happens, I suspect there are serious problems ahead due to the sheer numbers of people they are defying. I truly believe it will be the last straw.

I hope this helped, and I thank you for taking an interest in something which sadly, not enough people do.

@ TheRealWorld

I have read an opinion. Not a single fact, not a single figure. Just like your Master of Disaster forerunner. Please change your nickname to "MyFantasieWorld".

Wanne be strong? In a declining world economy? Stay United. Only United can Europe mean "something" in the world economy.

What you big mouth forerunners are trying to do is scare the hell out of you.

"In" Europe has many more advantaged then small minds can see. OK, agreed, there are a lot of rules, but most are required to survive the declining economy, the increasing competition from Asia, the USA.

Do you want to end up like Russia? Split to split and then be left with nothing at all? Russia is a perfect example of what is left after "as split". They are dead in the water. Economy is dead, industry is dead, social system is dead. If Russia did not have gas and oil? They would ALL be migrating into Asia or Europe.

And that's where the thread falls into a flame war.

Can someone please separate those 2 and lock the thread?

And you are from Belgium, are you not, Tony Vilters?

As a Brit I can tell you for sure that we do not need you, or anyone else, controlling our lives here in England. As for Russia, you do realise, don't you, that the whole reason the media paint Russia in a bad light is because Russia is a shining example of how non-EU countries have complete control and those in the EU do not. Russia is not in the EU, Switzerland in not in the EU, and they, like evey country that is not in the EU have control of their own affairs. Russia aren't the ones left with no power, sir, and Russia isn't being destyroyed by the issues that have been destroying the EU for decades.

I value your opinion, but I do not agree with it. Your voice is not important to me, nor should your voice be of any importance to any Brit, and that is the point, the only people who should have a voice in England are the people who live there. It's all very simple really, as Farage has pointed out time and time again. We are discussing what is best for England here, Brexit is about what is best for England, not what is best for Belgium or the Eurocrats that thrive on our money over there.

England are the soft-touch that have been propping-up the EU for decades, it's why they wanted us in the first place and it's the reason we need to leave those parasites to fall apart. Belgium and all countries in Europe need to do the same.

Khai, I see you have a problem with my civil-mannered post. I just checked it and it is 100% civil. I assume by your manor that you are in favour of dictatorship as you want to squash a thread with a discussion about democracy and freedom. If this does not interest you then please be quiet and let adults discuss in a civil manner without you coming along and starting flame wars.

Future will tell. I wish all the Britts the very best, whatever the outcome.

No, I'm in favour of a peaceful forum. I'm pointing out yourself and another are heading into a flame war contrary to the Tos ruling on political posting on an art forum. See above.

Other than that, I'm. Amazed at your reading of my political stance, of which nothing has been posted in any forum. How do you do that? Oh wait. You haven't. You've made it up out of thin air.

I'm afraid not, Khai. I came here to reply to the original poster as he requested a civil and adult discussion on the topic, but so far, reading some of the replies here you would think he'd made an attempt at World War III or something. Calm down, and stop trying to get threads deleted because of your own insecurities. Such behaviour is self-serving and with no consideration of those involved in the discussuion. You would be welcomed with open-arms as an EU politician.

I'm amazed the admin and moderators have allowed the thread to remain, but I thank them for doing so, it's the free and democratic thing to do. The reason people aren't aware of Brexit to the extent they should be, is because of censorship, because of organisations like the BBC blind-folding the British public. We need threads like these, because without them, we are totally owned by the media, such is the level of corruptiobn we are up against.

Dicatorship and censorship must never be allowed to win over democracy and freedom, no matter what the cost. Trying to get a thread such as this deleted is nothing less than disgusting. So again, if this does not interest you, please be quiet and let those it does interest have a civil discussion.

It's not too much to ask.

tonyvilters posted at 9:27AM Wed, 22 June 2016 - #4273322

Future will tell. I wish all the Britts the very best, whatever the outcome.

Thank you sir, that's all I wish for.

I'm perfectly calm. Again you infer out of nothing at all. That is a problem you have a lot?

And I do have an interest, contrary to yours. The rules of this forum being followed. Sorry that is not obvious to you. But I can post unless an staff member, of which you are not, tells me otherwise.