http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/106046/carrara-challenge-27-carrara-9-give-us-a-sign-wip-thread

Well, boys and girsl, over at daz carrara forum we are upto Carrara Challenge Number 27. And it's my honour to host the challenge.

We have been going for three years and three months, so to celebrate we are having a challenge that is designed to showcase Carrara itself.

And the beautiful thing, apart from the amazing prizes donated by Fenric and Daz, is that the winner NO LONGER has to host the next challenge. How cool is that? (Answer: Very Cool)

So if you can, come along and post your work. The rules, like me, are simple. The only stipulation is that the render has to have the words "Carrara' and '9' or "Nine" somewhere. You can put in three entries, as long as you have at least one prior WIP in the WIP thread ( see link)

There's a special prize for Newcomers, so don't be afraid. And of course we are looking at creaky old timers like Kixum and Mark etc to put up there hands and demonstrate what Carrara is really capable of.

There's a few wips up already so come and avalook.

thanksalot avagoodweegend :)

Believe it or not, there IS a Carrara 9 after all. Only it isn't made by Daz and it's not called Carrara. It's called Cheetah3D. It has all the features that you always wanted Carrara to have, and then some.

Here is a wip that I did with Cheetah3D. It's only a wip (It needs a little more texture tweaks and better lighting), but it already shows that there is a way out of Carrara.

This wip is called 'Carrara, a 3D app that could have been, but never was'.

Does this count as my official entry in this month's Carrara Challenge Contest?

:) nice render! it almost fits the bill too! you need one more carrara and one more 9 ;)

dr_bernie posted at 3:34PM Sat, 13 August 2016 - #4279772

Believe it or not, there IS a Carrara 9 after all. Only it isn't made by Daz and it's not called Carrara. It's called Cheetah3D. It has all the features that you always wanted Carrara to have, and then some.

But Mac only?

Steve K. posted at 1:23AM Sun, 14 August 2016 - #4279831

dr_bernie posted at 3:34PM Sat, 13 August 2016 - #4279772

Believe it or not, there IS a Carrara 9 after all. Only it isn't made by Daz and it's not called Carrara. It's called Cheetah3D. It has all the features that you always wanted Carrara to have, and then some.

But Mac only?

Yes, Cheeetah3D is Mac only. The lead developer, Dr. Martin Wengenmayer, apparently wants it that way and it's very unlikely to change.

But look at it this way: For $99.- Cheetah3D does 80% of what the $3600.- Cinema 4D Studio does, and the 20% that it doesn't do are obscure features that you will probably never use.

So for $99.- you get an amazingly powerful, robust, modern and feature-loaded 3D app which makes a Mac worth buying. If you really want to get out of the zombie-like Carrara, this is the way to go.

The Daz Studio ---> Cheetah3D pipeline works surprisingly well. In the render above the spaceship exported/imported flawlessly. Actually the half-dozen very complex props that I have tried so far all transferred flawlessly from Studio to Cheetah3D.

Victoria 4 and her outfit and pose exported with a glitch on the eyes and face materials that got applied to the wrong shading domains. I fixed the face but I didn't have time to fix the eyes yet.

I think Cheetah3D will work flawlessly with Genesis 3 too. although I did not have any chance to try it yet. More on that later.

Thanks for the reply, sounds intriguing. I vaguely remember being reluctant to switch from Poser/Bryce to Carrara long ago, but it turned out to be the best move I could have made. Now with Carrara's uncertain future, I may have to overcome inertia again. Maybe not any time soon, though, I think I can live with Carrara as is for a long time.

Carrara's future isn't just uncertain. Carrara is dead. There may be a few more iterations of Carrara 8.5.x.x, all poorly-tested-bug-ridden-done-by-inexperienced-interns, but the dream of a flashy Carrara 9 loaded with new mouth-watering features is an impossible dream that will never materialize.

For a hobbyist 3D artist who already owns a Mac, the $99.- Cheetah3D (C3D) is a must-have. The wealth of features that this 'entry-level' app offers is jaw-dropping. If you don't own a Mac already, the buying decision may be more difficult to justify.

There are right now three affordable 3D apps for hobbyists with faiirly good suppoprt for Daz/Poser contents:

1. IClone: Importing Daz/Poser contents requires a separate quite expensive program and you must adjust the skeleton structure yourself. Not for me.

2. Shade 3D: Very nice program with an outstanding native renderer. But its design is aging and its UI is quite quirky.

3. Cheetah3D: Loaded with advanced features and an almost seamless support for Daz/Poser content through export/import. This is my preferred choice.

If you intend to use Genesis 3, or any of the Daz Studio specific contents, in your workflow in the near future then Carrara is a dead-end.

The points that I stated above are the reasons that made me switch to C3D. I do not have any emotional bonds with Carrara and I am not regretting my decision.

In fact I believe that Daz should encourage Its Mac Carrara user base to switch to Cheetah3D, because it will be a great opportunity to sell Genesis 3 or Studio specific contents that will never be supported in Carrara.

Does anybody really think, I'd buy a Mac for twice the price of an equal PC, where half of the most needed plug-ins for Poser and DAZStudio won't work, just to have Cheetah3d? As long as Cheetah is not going for PC too, it's useless for me.

If you intend to use Genesis 3, or any of the Daz Studio specific contents, in your workflow in the near future then Carrara is a dead-end.

That's probably correct, but I don't use those products, so I'm in no hurry to switch. Plus I'm still learning things about Carrara.

I'm in same boat as Timberwolf. Not buying a Mac just to use Cheetah. However, as much as I enjoy Carrara, I am looking for alternatives. I had thought about combining Hex/Bryce/Studio but neither Bryce nor Hex gets more Daz love than Carrara. I had predicted last winter that I would be a full on Blender user by 2017. We shall see. But, I would prefer a Carrara 9.

diomede posted at 3:20PM Tue, 16 August 2016 - #4280157

... I had predicted last winter that I would be a full on Blender user by 2017. We shall see. But, I would prefer a Carrara 9.

The main reason I use Carrara is the seamless handling of Poser content, better than Poser IMHO. So now I have a YUUUGE collection of Poser format content. does Blender (or any other 3D program) handle Poser content as well as Carrara (not counting Poser which I occasionally use)?

I'm not sure. Have to defer to others on the forum.

_ does Blender (or any other 3D program) handle Poser content as well as Carrara (not counting Poser which I occasionally use)?_

The more I explore Cheetah3D, the more I realize that there is no going back to Carrara. At $99.- Cheetah3D easily qualifies as Cinema 4D's little brother.

I may still use Carrara though, as a support tool to check the shading domains in case they are not properly applied in Cheetah3D.

As I mentioned in my post above, if you are a 3D hobbyist - or even a semi-pro - and you already own a Mac, then having Cheetah3D in your toolbox is a must.

Shade3D reads Poser .PZ3 files, and has Windows and Mac versions. Its "Pro" version price is a bit more more than Carrara Pro. It does support 32 bit/channel color

Unfortunately I don't know anyone that uses it, and there is no Forum for it here on Renderosity, as far as I know (I just looked). ... would be interested in hearing from Carrara users that have tried it.

cjd posted at 2:34PM Wed, 17 August 2016 - #4280223

Shade3D reads Poser .PZ3 files, and has Windows and Mac versions. Its "Pro" version price is a bit more more than Carrara Pro. It does support 32 bit/channel color

Unfortunately I don't know anyone that uses it, and there is no Forum for it here on Renderosity, as far as I know (I just looked). ... would be interested in hearing from Carrara users that have tried it.

Thanks. Below is a short video by Shade showing the Poser/Shade integration via "Poser Fusion". I get from this that all the animation has to be done in Poser itself. That is not the case, of course, with Carrara, which adds complete Poser Runtimes to the Carrara browser, so any single element - character, pose, prop, etc.- can be added and animated freely in Carrara. As I mentioned, that is the key for me, and I'm pretty discouraged about finding anything else that is comparable.

http://mirye.net/shade-3d-14-1-1-new-features/119-poser-10-poser-pro-2014-integration

Ah, I did not realize that the native Poser format could not be used within the application without Poser. So Poser Fusion is a "bridge" it seems. So if you don't have Poser you can't use Poser content in Shade ... it should really state that in the Requirements.

cjd posted at 11:32AM Thu, 18 August 2016 - #4280271

Ah, I did not realize that the native Poser format could not be used within the application without Poser. So Poser Fusion is a "bridge" it seems. So if you don't have Poser you can't use Poser content in Shade ... it should really state that in the Requirements.

I think that's correct. As near as I can tell, it's the same for all the big name 3D apps (except Carrara ): "The family of PoserFusion plug-ins transform Poser Pro 11 into a character animation solution, creating a pipeline that will transport Poser scenes into 3ds Max, Maya, CINEMA 4D and LightWave."

http://my.smithmicro.com/poserfusion-plugins.html

Shade has a very clunky UI that needs some getting used to, and the lack of decent tutorials in English doesn't help. Its physics engine is an outdated version of Newton physics engine that nobody uses anymore and its particle system is quite awkward to use. On the plus side though Shade has a terrific native renderer that outputs superb images on par with the likes of VRay.

At this stage my recommendation to Daz is to abandon the porting of Genesis to Carrara, because it is an impossible project, and go back instead to Carrara 8.1.1.12 (the last reasonably well-working version of Carrara with no Genesis code in it) and provide a robust FBX/Collada/Obj export/import mechanism from Studio to Carrara.

This solution will open the door for Carrara users to the latest Daz products that are not Poser compatible, and it is doable relatively quickly, even by a summer intern.

I use shade as my regular modeler. Its Poser importer requires you to have Poser installed, but it doesn't recognise Poser 11.

There was a Shade forum here at Rendo for several years, but we closed it because almost nobody used it. It would go several months between posts.

@Jeff, Thanks

@ dr_bernie, What about Blacksmith3D sold here at Renderosity, thoughts?

@cjd: I looked at Blacksmith3D that you mentioned. It is more like a painting/sculpting app, not a full-fledged 3D program, so I am not sure to what extent it can be considered as replacement to Carrara.

Yeah, I see that now ... may not be an affordable all in one solution at the moment, unless you are on a Mac.

Well it all depends by what you mean by affordable.

For $199.- subscription fees per year you can get the full-blown Houdini. This is the most pro that a 3D app can get. If you have pro aspirations then this is the way to go. Houdini will open the door to the most prominent production studios in the world (while Carrara will only get you laughed at).

I am only a hobbyist doing occasional 3D for fun, so Houdini is way above my head, but if you consider that 3 years of Houdini subscription will only cost you $600.- then I am sure that you will agree that this is the software deal of the century.

Great theme. Lots of great artists submitting WIPs this time around. Worth checking out.

headwax. () () posted at 1:15AM Fri, 12 August 2016 · edited on 1:17AM Fri, 12 August 2016

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/106046/carrara-challenge-27-carrara-9-give-us-a-sign-wip-thread

Well, boys and girsl, over at daz carrara forum we are upto Carrara Challenge Number 27. And it's my honour to host the challenge.

We have been going for three years and three months, so to celebrate we are having a challenge that is designed to showcase Carrara itself.

And the beautiful thing, apart from the amazing prizes donated by Fenric and Daz, is that the winner NO LONGER has to host the next challenge. How cool is that? (Answer: Very Cool)

So if you can, come along and post your work. The rules, like me, are simple. The only stipulation is that the render has to have the words "Carrara' and '9' or "Nine" somewhere. You can put in three entries, as long as you have at least one prior WIP in the WIP thread ( see link)

There's a special prize for Newcomers, so don't be afraid. And of course we are looking at creaky old timers like Kixum and Mark etc to put up there hands and demonstrate what Carrara is really capable of.

There's a few wips up already so come and avalook.

thanksalot avagoodweegend :)

.

@ headwax, diomede:

I really apologize to you guys for having hijacked this thread and turned it into a 'Carrara Replacement' discussion.

But, not to worry, here is my official entry for the Carrara 9 contest. It was done with Carrara 8.1.1.12 and, believe it or not, 'Carrara 9' IS in the picture. Guess where.

The name of this picture is: 'Carrara 9. A Great 3D App That Could Have Been, But Never Was.'

Nice!

Thanks!

dr_bernie posted at 6:13PM Tue, 30 August 2016 - #4279875

Steve K. posted at 1:23AM Sun, 14 August 2016 - #4279831

dr_bernie posted at 3:34PM Sat, 13 August 2016 - #4279772

Believe it or not, there IS a Carrara 9 after all. Only it isn't made by Daz and it's not called Carrara. It's called Cheetah3D. It has all the features that you always wanted Carrara to have, and then some.

But Mac only?

Yes, Cheeetah3D is Mac only. The lead developer, Dr. Martin Wengenmayer, apparently wants it that way and it's very unlikely to change.

But look at it this way: For $99.- Cheetah3D does 80% of what the $3600.- Cinema 4D Studio does, and the 20% that it doesn't do are obscure features that you will probably never use.

So for $99.- you get an amazingly powerful, robust, modern and feature-loaded 3D app which makes a Mac worth buying. If you really want to get out of the zombie-like Carrara, this is the way to go.

Yikes! So the app is $99, but I gotta buy a Mac and learn a whole new OS to boot? I'm sure Cheetah is good, but if I want a Mac which is equal to or better than my current PC (8 core Xeon with 16g ram), I need a Mac Pro, which has only 6 cores, and costs $3,999. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-mac-pro-6-core-intel-xeon-processor-16gb-memory-256gb-flash-storage-black/2680034.p?id=1219075853918&skuId=2680034

In that case, I'd probably just go with Maya or 3dsmax. I think a more viable alternative to Carrara for PC users is Blender. It's free, and has a really great render engine built in, and does almost everything just as good as the big boys like 3dsmax or Maya. Plus the new render engine in Poser is based on Cycles, so people migrating from there will have knowledge of the nodes already. There's also some work being done to figure out better ways to transport Poser stuff over, although that isn't a priority for me. I'll just use MakeHuman instead.

@ davidstoolie :

As I mentioned in this post, if you are a 3D hobbyist and you already own a Mac, then the $99.- Cheetah3D is a must-have. If you don't own a Mac already, the buying decision may be more difficult to justify.

dr_bernie posted at 4:42AM Wed, 31 August 2016 - #4281004

Well it all depends by what you mean by affordable.

For $199.- subscription fees per year you can get the full-blown Houdini. This is the most pro that a 3D app can get. If you have pro aspirations then this is the way to go. Houdini will open the door to the most prominent production studios in the world (while Carrara will only get you laughed at).

I am only a hobbyist doing occasional 3D for fun, so Houdini is way above my head, but if you consider that 3 years of Houdini subscription will only cost you $600.- then I am sure that you will agree that this is the software deal of the century.

I'd like to chime in about Houdini if I may. Not every large production studio uses Houdini. If you research it thoroughly, Houdini is primarily used as a VFX package in combination with some other large all-in-one solution like Maya. The strong point of Houdini is the incredibly powerful particle system and scripted, procedural workflow it can bring to a VFX pipeline, and that's primarily how it fits in. The people who specialize in Houdini are usually technical specialists focused on high quality particle effects and physics sims. However, it's usually tied tightly to Maya in one way or another along the pipeline. Honestly, the most "pro" application you can get in the world depends entirely on the field of 3d you are interested in.

For film and VFX you will likely find 90% of the really important studios use Maya. Perhaps half of those use Maya with Houdini in some way. If you are interested in next-gen game development (which is approaching the technical aspect that CG movies were doing about 5 to 10 years ago anyway), then you'll likely need to learn 3dsmax or Maya LT. 3dsmax is also found in some VFX studios too, but not as much as Maya, and usually only in the modeling portion of the pipeline. If you are looking to get into architectural visualization or television mograph stuff, then you'll likely encounter most studios using either Cinema4D or 3dsmax also.

Head over to CGTalk, hang out there for about a month in the forums and you'll see what the big studios are mostly using.

I think Carrara or Blender are great for the hobbyist. I lean towards Blender myself as an independant freelance artist, because it's far superior in the modelling aspect, but nothing seems to compare to Carrara for working nice with Poser stuff. It's ideal to get your feet wet with a real 3d package from Poser before moving up to something more.

Honestly, the most widely used 3d package in the professional industry today is probably... drumroll please... ZBRUSH. Yep, Zbrush is used by every single VFX and game studio I can think of offhand, including Disney, ILM, and many more. In fact, regardless if the studio is using Maya, 3dsmax, Cinema4D, or whatever... Zbrush plays a huge roll in the production pipeline from start to finish. These days, all character models are done in Zbrush first, then retopologized and brought into the animation package. It's actually fair to say if you know Zbrush really well, and can sculpt well enough, you have a chance to land a job somewhere in the CG industry these days.

@headwax: Your render 'The Raiders Of The Lost Software' (Link) is absolutely outstanding. I particularly like the effects and the out-of-this-world atmosphere. You easily win my vote for the best entry.