Hi folks,

So I've raved on about Exnem's Body Hair for V4 for ages. I love it, it's just what V4 needed, however, it is incomplete. All we need now is for the face to be 'furrified' and she'll be pretty much bang-on!

Well, I've just found something that both excites me and breaks my heart all at once. Peach Fuzz! by ThePhilosopher over at the other site (not sure if I can link here, go take a look). It excites me for obvious reasons, just look for yourself, but it breaks my heart because... G3!!!

Please, please, please, please, please would someone, somewhere, make a product just like this for V4, to add onto the already superb Body Hair from Exnem? PLEASE?! I've spoken with Exnem about this and it's looking like the addition of a facial figure isn't going to happen, sadly.

No end of Poser artists still use V4 exclusively and, as is said on ThePhilosopher's store page, this is a tiny detail that truly does do an enormous amount to bring realism to a render; I know that much simply by using Exnem's product so much! The results of with vs without hair are breathtaking!

Please, someone make V4 human!

Thanks,

Glen.

If you have Poser Pro with a Dynamic Hair room, you can simply create fine body hair on the character wherever you need it.

Good luck finding vendors interested in making V4 stuff nowadays. I had been begging for something like the morphing brows for V4 for ages. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/oh-my-brows-morphing-eyebrows-for-genesis-3-female/115727/ Finally someone figured it was a good idea but naturally vendors will create for figures that are popular. Unfortunately, V4 is now considered obsolete for all but a handful of vendors.

The most ridiculous is the variation of V4 stuff adapted for Gx figures. I have V4 i buy the Blue dress (exemple). Later i use G2, i need to buy the same Blue dress but for G2. Now i have the idea to use G3, i need to buy exactly the same Blue dress but for G3. Only one way ? Only V4->G2->G3 ? Why not G3->G2->V4 ? Look in the market how many daz and Genesys product are xx% off. When you cut the price that means only one thing, It does not sell !

Before you all dive into yet another DAZ bash, take a look at all the emotion and facial movement dials on V4. Also look at the head morph dials to change the look of v4. Those are all the morphs a vendor would have to make to support products that fit on the face, which is why there are very few products that cover the face for V4 or M4. It's not a "no one wants to support v4" thing, it's a "too much work for the return" thing.

SickleYield over at Daz had a tutorial that covered how to convert any V4 Dress to G2...I'm not sure if the tutorial would be applicable for G3...I may be. I don't have a direct link for it...But its on Daz somewhere and no doubt on SickleYield at Deviant Art.

CatherineTodd posted at 3:21PM Wed, 21 September 2016 - #4284240

SickleYield over at Daz had a tutorial that covered how to convert any V4 Dress to G2...I'm not sure if the tutorial would be applicable for G3...I may be. I don't have a direct link for it...But its on Daz somewhere and no doubt on SickleYield at Deviant Art.

Without buying new products you can go stepwise - use AutoFit to convert from V4 to Genesis, save as a Figure Asset, use AutoFit to convert to G2F (or M), save as a Figure Asset, use AutoFit to convert to G3F. If you are willing to buy extras there are sets of clone shapes (such as Wear them all for the Genesis 3s) that will allow AutoFit to go straight from V4 to G3F.

In Poser Pro 11, you can apply morphs from your base figure to whatever you are "making". Including face morphs. Am I missing something here? It's easier than it once was. And yes, we need to keep this on a friendly level. We're good.

If Poser's hair room wasn't a train wreck, maybe I could create it there, but it is a train wreck and I have spent years... no, really, YEARS trying to get body hair onto V4 with it. I finally gave up a few months before Exnem released the aforementioned product.

If it's that easy to convert V4 stuff to Genesis, does it work the other way around? Then again, I suppose for that to work, I would need to get Dson or something working... which it doesn't, after following all advice, tutorials etc.

Someone more skilled than I could see if Zbrush's fibermesh on a "skinned" face of Vicki could work for this project. Don't know if it would work but in theory, it should.

I fail to see any DAZ bashing going on. If anything, people are extolling one of their figures, namely V4. I agree with Male_M3dia that vendors do this for a living and thus choose to support what will bring more revenue for them.
Since V4 is not being used as much even minimal effort is not worth it because with that same effort they will sell more for G3. That has always been and will be the norm. Remember how everyone dropped V3 like a hot potato when V4 came out?

Thanks to Male_M3dia for also pointing out the many face morphs V4 has as I believe that has been one of the main reasons she was able to "survive" for so long. The versatility of characters for V4 is truly amazing. Maybe more vendors will be inspired to make face morph packages for G3 which will surely be a lucrative product since that's an area G3 is lacking in.

As for wishing for more V4 products, I was caught up in that for a while until I realized that hanging on to something and not accepting change will only needlessly hold you back. Right before V4 came out I had just decided to buy all the AS (As Shanim, Aery Soul, whatever they were called then - Awesome Sex would have been my choice, then we'd all remember it) clothing and characters for V3 that I didn't have. A couple of weeks later V4 burst on the scene and I have hardly used any of those V3 items. I'd have liked to but the newer ones were always that much more enticing.

I think this is what's happening now something that failed to happen with G1 and G2 for some reason but it's a normal market reaction so we shouldn't begrudge vendors who are, after all, just trying to put food on the table and pay their bills.

Peach Fuzz! by ThePhilosopher reads 4 Texture and Bump Maps (32 x 128) 32 x 128 What ? pixels ? ,each hair has it's own texture ? Man that would be a lot of work to place n make morphs for. Wouldn't that raze the file size a lot. I'm guessing at all this, don't know how it's all made or works .

Zbrush's fibermesh could do this but it would raze the file size a lot also.

large file sizes aren't any good for animations but if you wanted peach fuzz for stills. making peach fuzz in post would be good .don't half to worry about what mesh it is either.

I would have though a face with 60 bones wouldn't need morphs. If not for facial manipulation ,Then what's the 60 bones for ?

I could right a book about why this mesh and that mesh is made this or that way. but RUGU always has killer renders .RUGU believes in POST.

I personally believe that there is still a LOT of interesting in V4. I wish vendors would just tack on a version for her in their packages and know the tools allow for this a lot easier than it once was. It would be great. There wouldn't be so much talk about her if the interest wasn't still there.

RorrKonn posted at 7:35AM Thu, 22 September 2016 - #4284307

Peach Fuzz! by ThePhilosopher reads 4 Texture and Bump Maps (32 x 128) 32 x 128 What ? pixels ? ,each hair has it's own texture ? Man that would be a lot of work to place n make morphs for. Wouldn't that raze the file size a lot. I'm guessing at all this, don't know how it's all made or works .

Zbrush's fibermesh could do this but it would raze the file size a lot also.

large file sizes aren't any good for animations but if you wanted peach fuzz for stills. making peach fuzz in post would be good .don't half to worry about what mesh it is either.

I would have though a face with 60 bones wouldn't need morphs. If not for facial manipulation ,Then what's the 60 bones for ?

Yes, that's the issue with making beard and facial hair products for Gen4 and lower products. The size of the product would be HUGE to accomodate all the morphs needed to make sure the hair followed the morphs and expressions. It works for the newer characters because the product is made for the base and maybe a few main character heads like Victoria and the other morphs are autogenerated when they are used (not loaded), which keeps the resources for the base product lower than making a hundred morphs and they all are present at the same time. I have a beard for M4 that was fairly large to use in renders, and then I used dimension3d's tool to add more facial morphs to it which drove the file size even higher. I think it used more memory than complete outfits. And zbrush fibermesh would raise the memory requirements even higher unless the vendor had tools to compress and retopo the mesh before rigging. But most fibermesh products require a decent videocard otherwise it will slow down the viewport.

But there are products like facial and body hair that are more common in newer figures because all the fits and morphs don't have to be made by a vendor for a product to work properly.

I'm thinking there must be a way to make this map dependent and not mesh dependent and therefore NOT morph dependent. Saving on large file issues. We are talking peach fuzz, not wolf-man (woman).

It still needs to conform to the face if you're talking about the same solution. If you're going to just paint hair it's not going to look the same or catch the light in renders like a mesh-based product would.

Granted, I am talking about painted hair ... and your observations are correct, but it isn't as much an issue for such short hair especially on the face ... perhaps I am missing the point, but I am always looking for work arounds and sometimes they aren't ideal as this one proves.

This peach fuzz would not make V4 "Complete" IMHO and is only of use to those who render extreme closeup portraits.

Closeups which will inevitably have any chance of realism Destroyed when viewed next to 1990's Era transmapped head hair still in use today.

I'm sorry wolf359, I must be dreaming and not know exactly what I need for my own artwork. My mistake. Here was me, as a man living with low latent inhibition, who notices the tiniest of details, noticing the harsh line between V4's head and neck where the fine 'peach fuzz' of Exnem's product ends in standard, full-body renders, but I guess perhaps I'm just a freak who sees things others don't.

To be honest, I'm really, really sick of the negative comments about detail in 3D artwork. So you think it's pointless, so what? Also, for the record, I have never seen strand-based Poser head hair look as good as trans mapped hair which is done right. I've had this argument before and I'm sick of it.

It seems to me that the entire point of you involving yourself in my topic was to basically tell me it's pointless and pathetic, and it would look shit unless I use strand-based hair everywhere. Well, fantastic, please don't share such opinions again on my topics.

IMHO, it WOULD make V4 as complete a figure as any available for Poser and, at any rate, it is something I politely (if desperately) requested.

Boni, unfortunately, map-based hair would not serve the purpose here, though I see what you're thinking with that. I used a separate V4 figure with trans mapped body hair, perfectly synchronised with my character, Annie, before I got Exnem's product. It did the job at the time, but it was temperamental and often gave me bugs and 'z-fighting', especially in raytraced shadows and reflections. Also, a big plus for the strand-based product would be that it would catch light in certain circumstances. Exnem's product has 'peach fuzz' over the neck, upper arms, chest, back and thighs, mostly, and these areas look fantastic with the right lighting conditions, and no, they aren't close-up renders at all; they are what I term as full-body renders, which most of my pieces are, as I rarely like to crop a subject out of a piece unless I'm going for something like a bodyscape effect.

I know I have been blunt here, but I'm so utterly sick of the same old nay-saying going on here, it really gets me down and makes me wonder why I bother. I don't think I've ever done it to anyone else, yet it seems to happen to me a fair bit. Not nice.

Glen, I'm sorry you are disheartened by the answers you are getting. Sometimes the truth of the matter is that the request is not cost or resource effective, which is what seems to be the response of the posters. I wished there was an easier more seamless way to make this work. We'll keep this open in hopes that someone may still find an answer. Remember until Kozoburo came up with transmapped hair we were stuck with clay hair ... even with transmapping available in Poser 4. So... there could be something out there that needs to be discovered.

Oh there's always solutions in the CGI universe ,some where. It's why Studios have a lot of different app's. n plugs.I've never attempted peach fuzz in any app. So I'm guessing here but Blenders dynamic hair would be a good low price little skills needed place to look.

I'm not disheartened by learning that it's difficult, that's a given really, I'm just tired of the same old arguments that crop up with things like this, eluding to the notion that the implementation would be pointless. I remember a topic where folks were discussing the salt content of human tears to calculate the precise amount of refraction involved in V4's tears! Anything is possible in 3D, and the reason we so rarely see photorealistic renders is because people dismiss the small details as insignificant, when they are by far the most important.

No one said that the implementation is pointless. What was said is that no vendor will get their return making a hundred morphs and expression fixes for a product to fit to a V4 face, test it all with the different variations, which will likely cause more problems, then sell it for $12.. then customers will wait until a coupon comes out and try to get it for half that. In the past if you asked a vendor to do it, they wouldn't because of the massive amount of work involved. The technology behind some of the newer figures, reduces that work so you have more facial products and a lot of freebie versions available as well. V4 is still a flexible character, but the reality is that there are some things that simply won't be made for it, because the underlying technology makes it difficult to impossible to do products that the newer ones can easily do.

One person did elude to that notion, or did you miss it?

Look, I'm not going to argue. The original question was along the lines of "IS anyone interested?" not "Is anyone NOT interested?". This is the problem with forums; a question is asked and most of the answers given are not in answer to the question. "Does anyone know of... ?", followed by a dozen replies of "No.".

Jeeze, sorry to ask the world of you all. I'm grateful for the constructive comments from folks who have offered methods of doing this, but I find it irritating when people chime in with ways in which it won't work. The original question was appealing to anyone who WOULD be interested or WOULD know how to do it, not to those who are NOT interested or do NOT know how to do it, don't you see? The fact is that those responding negatively were not the ones I aimed this topic at, so they need not have bothered at all, it's so obvious!

The whole dynamic of forums is infuriating in this sense.

So, if anyone IS interested or DOES know how to do it, please reply, as your input would be greatly appreciated. To anyone who is NOT interested, thinks it's a waste of time or does NOT know how to do it, there is no point in responding because you are not going to contribute to the discussion.

I must say that I'm getting a bit tired of this forum. Out of four topics I start, I seem to only get a resolution on one of them, if that. I routinely have to make three or four posts asking the same question in different ways on the same topic before someone finally gets what I'm asking, even when I've posted imagery to literally draw them a picture!

IMHO, this community looks like it is dying, which is desperately sad. It just seems like the majority can't be bothered anymore. I honestly feel like not bothering anymore.

What I also find hilarious is that all the nay-saying that has come up in this topic has come up before when I've discussed V4 body hair, and some of the exact same things have been said, it's as though the comments have been copied and pasted! Yet here we are, with a fantastic product from Exnem which does everything I was trying to do all that time ago, and everything that, excuse me for my arrogance, I knew it would do if implemented correctly!

I had almost exactly the same responses when I first asked on forums about 'real' reflections in the eyes. I suppose, if I came in here, asking for someone to calculate the salt content of human tears so that I could precisely calculate the correct refractions etc in Poser, I would get laughed into an early grave, yet that is precisely the kind of discussion which I have seen go on with highly regarded 'genius' members of this community.

This kind of topic is exactly where many of the new innovations we see are spawned from; without them, ideas wouldn't enter people's heads and things wouldn't get made. With that said:

Ok, so the next time we'll respond with silence. So when you see no responses, don't ask why no one answered because you may get an answer you will not like.

Also, don't create posts if you will not like the answers you may get. The thing is I've asked vendors in the past this question, not users in the forum. The answer I gave you was the answer I got, with less disgust, because they weren't remotely interested in the thought of doing that much work on V4 or M4. One thing that irritates me is when people ask something and get the answer, they get all upset because no one wants to do the work. If you feel that's unfair, then you can buy a copy of zbrush and make a fibermesh product and see what it how much work it takes to get it to market and you'll understand why some things aren't done.

Oh my GOD!!!

Ok, so at the risk of really upsetting someone, this is my main issue here, which I hoped to have cleared up, but apparently some people don't understand. I'm not sure why, as it's all here, in plain English, and it's all on the same page.

wolf359 posted at 4:20PM Fri, 23 September 2016 - #4284389

This peach fuzz would not make V4 "Complete" IMHO and is only of use to those who render extreme closeup portraits.

Closeups which will inevitably have any chance of realism Destroyed when viewed next to 1990's Era transmapped head hair still in use today.

THAT is where I started bitching. THAT is what I took as basically telling me it's pointless. THAT is what I saw as an unwelcome comment. THAT is mostly what I'm getting at.

This is what I mean about this place, it's hilarious! I seem to have to draw a bloody picture for people, physically slap something into their face in order for them to actually see what I'm getting at. I had the same thing with the grid lighting being warped in another post. I asked repeatedly how to fix the warping at the edges and I posted a picture. In the end, I actually had to put marks on the picture to show the glaringly obvious fucking defects which anyone with a pair of eyeballs could see if they'd only bother having a look at the damn image! In the end, I scrapped the entire project.

Jesus, this is like trying to explain shit to a child, only at least one expects a hard time with that!

To be honest, I would rather have a thread full of silence than a thread full of nay-sayers!

The nay-sayers booed my questions about 'real' eye reflections. Now we have them. The nay-sayers booed my questions about strand-based body hair. We now have it. The nay-sayers are booing my questions about finer strand-based hair on the face, when the damn stuff actually already exists right now! Let's see where we end up, shall we?

I'm not pissed off because no one wants to do the work; I'm pissed off because all anyone can say is that no one wants to do the work! The fact that I have to actually state that perplexes me! See the above image quote!

Honestly, some users of this place are exhausting. Just go away if you have no constructive input.

I distinctly remember at least three users telling me that nobody would want to do the work with the body hair. I distinctly remember getting pissed off, just like this, when they said that and now, guess what? Exnem did the work and it is a fantastic product!

I shall now only respond to posts like that with: "SHUT UP!"

I don't know any of the products in details, so exactly how they made them Im not sure off. But at least to me it looked like they used some sort of scatter tool that allows you to scatter geometry over a surface which in this case is hair and then turned it into a product like it were a piece of cloth. At least thats the impression i get from reading their descriptions. I don't think it would be all that impossible to do.

However I think you have a better chance of simply painting in the hair manually afterwards (unless you are doing animations).

Here is a 15 min PS tutorial of how to make facial hair, in this case its beard but the approach is the same, for what you are trying to do (Obviously you can do this in Gimp as well) and to be honest with a bit of practice i bet you can make it look much better than any product,

How to create facial hair

Thank you very much for that, that's interesting! Yes, I have put 'bikini line' hair onto a piece in Photoshop before, where the original product didn't quite work for me, but that looks like a much more in-depth method and would yield much better results.

I will be animating one day, but we'll see.

This is the piece I mentioned. Also notice the 'peach fuzz' around the back of Annie's upper thigh.

What i would suggest you to do is to render the image huge 4000x4000 if you can, that way its easier to work with. Also remember that you can save the brush in PS, so once you have made it or downloaded it from there site. You don't have to make it each time.

Thank you. Yes, I tend to render at 2-3000 usually and it has started taking a very long time for some reason, I think my RAM is fried due to a power surge. I'm working on a render at the moment which I've had to restart five times now, as it keeps crashing. The render is pretty sparse, but it is taking around thirty hours or more to complete; I can only guess, as it barely gets through one fifteenth of the final pass before it crashes.

I want to put many of my pieces onto canvas, so I would need high resolution images for that, but I know that rendering enormous, then rescaling after edits is usually the best option.

You can always try to lower the quality, if you are lucky it will look fine once you lower the res. for the final image. :)